Ireland XV v England

[OneRedArmy]

Here's my preferred line-up:

Dempsey

Horgan
O'Driscoll
D'Arcy
Hickie

O'Gara
Boss

Horan
Flannery
Hayes
O'Callaghan
O'Connell
Best
Wallace
Leamy

I'd also like it if Eddie used subs earlier in the game instead of waiting to the last 15. He still doesn't seem to realise that its a 22 man game these days.

[paul_oshea]

i think boss was very slow with getting the ball out, he waited too long to often, that gave the french time to re-group and reorganise to often, his passing also isnt quick enough or accurate enough, the ball should be right into the chest, he was throwing it at head-level and waist level sometimes. stringer is better in an attacking game like yesterday.

[OneRedArmy]

i think boss was very slow with getting the ball out, he waited too long to often, that gave the french time to re-group and reorganise to often, his passing also isnt quick enough or accurate enough, the ball should be right into the chest, he was throwing it at head-level and waist level sometimes. stringer is better in an attacking game like yesterday.If anything Stringer wastes too much time hanging around the back of rucks.

Whilst Boss' pass isn't as accurate as Stringers (but by no means is it Michael Bradley-esque!), he doesn't telegraph as much and breaks more often, thereby keeping the back row more honest.

IMHO Boss did a terrific job, particularly in the first half when the pack were going backwards at a rate of knots.

[inexile]

stringer, o driscoll straight back in
flannery in for best keep everything else the same, close call between trimble and murphy for the bench

[finlma]

Boss did way better than Stringer would have and deserves to keep his place. His defence work was top notch too.

It was some day in Croker, not to be forgotten. Result could have gone either way so no complaints. Can't wait to be back on the Hill for the English game.

[pete]

I remain unconvinced that Boss added enough to justify keeping his place. I think Stringer shades it for now but good to know option on the bench for the last 15-20 minutes which certainly has not been the case in recent years.

Boss tried a few breaks but no cutting edge. Stringers pass will give O'Gara an extra second which is huge in International rugby. I'd prefer O'Gara to be the decision maker at no.10 anyway.

[OneRedArmy]

Boss tried a few breaks but no cutting edge. Stringers pass will give O'Gara an extra second which is huge in International rugby. Pete I'd be wary of quoting verbatim from anything Matt Williams says in the Irish Times as he was the original Spoofer before Gareth Farrelly ever existed:p ;)

[OneRedArmy]

Just saw the highlights for the first time, as I was lucky enough to be at yesterdays game.

First thing is that Geordan Murphy doesn't derserve to wear an Irish jersey again, as his pathetic half-assed attempt at a tackle was one too many in his under-achieving international career.

Second, not convinced that the Horan incident actually was obstruction. Harinordiquoy gives him a slight tug and the full-back correctly stands his ground (your are under no obligation to retreat, only to avoid going out of your way to impede). It certainly wasn't clear obstruction in my mind.

Lastly the French try at the death was somewhat unfortunate in that when the ball came backout of the ruck across from the Hogan to the Cusack side, Ireland were still in their kickoff defence formation which left Hayes exposed in open field. Best (correctly) drifted outside to cover the outside man and unfortunately the Bull was never going to have a chance against a back running at pace.

[pete]

Pete I'd be wary of quoting verbatim from anything Matt Williams says in the Irish Times as he was the original Spoofer before Gareth Farrelly ever existed

Is that a complement? :cool:
I did not read his article.

I think Easterby will keep his place due to the physical nature of the England forwards. Flannery will come in for Best too.

btw Wallace was outstanding yesterday in both halfs which is impressive given the dominance of France in the first. (did Williams mention that? :p )

[OneRedArmy]

I think Easterby will keep his place due to the physical nature of the England forwards.Thats exactly why he won't keep his place (or shouldn't keep his place at any rate).

Best's one man ruck yesterday where he turned the ball over shows exactly what physicality he brings to the game. Never should've been dropped after the Autumn and yet another tick in the con column in Eddie's record.

And agree on Wallace, my Ireland MoTM and his pass for the try was sublime.

[paul_oshea]

Best's one man ruck yesterday where he turned the ball over shows exactly what physicality he brings to the game. Never should've been dropped after the Autumn and yet another tick in the con column in Eddie's record.


ya i seemed to be the only one where i was watching it that noticed that, that was about 2 mins after he came on wasnt it? It started as a maul though didnt it and he made great yards. was class to watch. he should definately be partnering wallace and leamy in the back-row.

[bigmac]

First thing is that Geordan Murphy doesn't derserve to wear an Irish jersey again, as his pathetic half-assed attempt at a tackle was one too many in his under-achieving international career.




He also saved a certain try with a smother tackle, made one great break down the right wing, and should have had a try if Walsh hadn't whistled so quickly. I'd move him to full back where he offers a bit more going forward than Dempsey.

[endabob1]

He also saved a certain try with a smother tackle, made one great break down the right wing, and should have had a try if Walsh hadn't whistled so quickly. I'd move him to full back where he offers a bit more going forward than Dempsey.

Fully agree, Murphy is probably the best full back in the 6 nations, the insistance of playing him on the wing baffles me.
His missed tackle was a shocker but he did save a certain try and should have had one himself but for the clearly biased Walsh.

[Macy]

His missed tackle was a shocker but he did save a certain try and should have had one himself but for the clearly biased Walsh.
One of many shockers in his career. I just don't think he's good enough defensively.


Second, not convinced that the Horan incident actually was obstruction. Harinordiquoy gives him a slight tug and the full-back correctly stands his ground (your are under no obligation to retreat, only to avoid going out of your way to impede). It certainly wasn't clear obstruction in my mind.
I'd have a bigger issue with him not calling it back for the penalty. In those three incidents that we had advantage he didn't appear to give as long as would be common now, or he should've blown up earlier with no advantage coming. Having said that, after the first time, Ireland should've taken the penalty anyway - rarely see O'Gara drop into the pocket to at least get two attempts at 3 points.

[Soko]

Murphy doesn't look half as interested as he does for England. I couldn't care less if he's on the bench

[finlma]

Murphy doesn't look half as interested as he does for England. I couldn't care less if he's on the bench

I presume you mean Leicster. Agreed - Murphy's defence work is diabolical. Dempsey doesn't offer a great deal in attack but he's solid as a rock in defence - most reliable pair of hands in the business. We have other players for flair - need someone to mop up and thats where Dempsey comes in.

[OneRedArmy]

Cheerio Geordan Murphy. You can get back into the squad when you learn to make an effort in the tackle.:mad:

No major surprises although N Best and Flannery would be my preferred starters. If they are going to be used as impact subs, bring them on with 30 mins to go, not 10.

[shakermaker1982]

Would have loved to have seen Best start this game. Surprised Murphy doesn't even make the bench.........

[geysir]

Fully agree, Murphy is probably the best full back in the 6 nations, the insistance of playing him on the wing baffles me.
His missed tackle was a shocker but he did save a certain try and should have had one himself but for the clearly biased Walsh.
I don't see what the ref did wrong in that incident in not allowing advantage play when Murphy gathered the ball and broke away. Murphy only gained an unlikely advantage after the ref blew his whistle.
The ball was knocked on, the ref blew as another French player picked up the ball and tried to offload it.

The offside rule is confusing.
In the same incident the French have players offside. One French player came in at a scissors direction to pretend to receive the ball, the ball bipasses him of course but he is still running on ahead of the ball into the irish line creating some obstruction. Why is that not offside? Is there some leeway? Looks to me that it is carefully crafted, first you have a dummy movement with the added effect of some obstruction.

[Schumi]

The offside rule is confusing.
In the same incident the French have players offside. One French player came in at a scissors direction to pretend to receive the ball, the ball bipasses him of course but he is still running on ahead of the ball into the Irish line creating some obstruction. Why is that not offside? Is there some leeway? Looks to me that it is carefully crafted, first you have a dummy movement with the added effect of some obstruction.He's offside if he runs (directly) in front of the ball or blocks a defender from making a tackle, otherwise he's OK.

[shakermaker1982]

kind of off topic but how do you lads reckon GSTQ will be received Saturday?

[Student Mullet]

kind of off topic but how do you lads reckon GSTQ will be received Saturday?There will be at least one fan booing.

[geysir]

He's offside if he runs (directly) in front of the ball or blocks a defender from making a tackle, otherwise he's OK.
Are there no grey areas? contraversial tactics?

[Schumi]

Are there no grey areas? contraversial tactics?
Loads, that's the general idea though.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Flannery and Best should have started imo. Good to see out strongest back line on the pitch. We would have beaten the French if we had it then.

[paul_oshea]

ya true dman.

schumi, i may be wrong, but if two players are running for the ball in two different lines that is fine, however if two players are running in different lines and one moves over and keeps running to block the path of another i always beleived this to be obstruction i.e. same penalty as offside.

im still really ****ed off about the france game.

[finlma]

kind of off topic but how do you lads reckon GSTQ will be received Saturday?

Hopefully with respect. I'll be on the Hill on Saturday and anyone booing another countries national anthem will be kindly told to shut up.

[Superhoops]

I don't see what the ref did wrong in that incident in not allowing advantage play when Murphy gathered the ball and broke away. Murphy only gained an unlikely advantage after the ref blew his whistle.
The ball was knocked on, the ref blew as another French player picked up the ball and tried to offload it.

The offside rule is confusing.
In the same incident the French have players offside. One French player came in at a scissors direction to pretend to receive the ball, the ball bipasses him of course but he is still running on ahead of the ball into the irish line creating some obstruction. Why is that not offside? Is there some leeway? Looks to me that it is carefully crafted, first you have a dummy movement with the added effect of some obstruction.

Geysir, you have real problem, you actually understand the rules of Rugby!! ;)

[Superhoops]

There will be at least one fan booing.
Hopefully, that is not you!

Don't know anything about you but if you intend booing (a) you are not a sports fan, and (b) you are a poor excuse for an Irishman.

The world has moved on. I have no 'gra' for England or the English and take great pleasure in seeing them stuffed in any sport they play. However, any team and their supporters should reasonalby expect to stand in a stadium and listen to their own anthem, without having to listen to irreverant gobsh*tes.

I have had the pleasure of following Ireland all over the world and have always respected the national anthem of every country we have played and except for some mindless morons in a few countries have always appreciated the respect that has been given to our anthem.

I would far prefer they played their own national anthem, instead of the cop-out that the IRFU have done with 'Ireland's Call'. I would rather stand and respect GSTQ intead of giving any respect to a Eurovision song.

[finlma]

Robinson is out of the game so that really increases our chances. If Johnny Wilkinson doesn't recover I really can't see us being beaten.

[pete]

If Ireland can match the England forwards the irish backs can win the game.

With Robinson out England will play an even more conservative game as little threat in the backline. England definitely a one man show now & if the lose Wilkinson Ireland will be red hot favourites.

[OneRedArmy]

If Ireland can match the England forwards the irish backs can win the game.

With Robinson out England will play an even more conservative game as little threat in the backline. England definitely a one man show now & if the lose Wilkinson Ireland will be red hot favourites.Hit Wilkinson early and see how fit he is.

Agree that if the pack can at least match England we should be fine. THis England pack isn't a patch on the Leonard, Johnson, Dallagio vintage of a few years back.

[paul_oshea]

“The atmosphere at Croke Park was brilliant, incredible. It made you proud to be Irish. There was unbelievable support in the second half,” said O’Gara.

and not to forget be a PROUD irish man!!!!

id rather see england at their strongest, we are at that stage now where we should be able to say, bring it on, and we are so i dont see why ye lot are hoping everyone is injured!!!! drop the inferiority complex, we ARE the best team this side of the equator.

[OneRedArmy]

we ARE the best team this side of the equator.We should be Paul, but we're patently not.

We are getting dangerously close to being bottlers and seeing the best Irish team in history slipping away without actually winning anything.

In many ways tomorrow is only a sideshow, we need to beat the French and the Argies in September.

[paul_oshea]

well actually im hoping we dont beat the french, as i have a ticket for cardiff ;) but of course to beat the argies i beleive we will.

ya we have always been bottlers no matter what sport, it must break back to that inferiority complex of being irish. seriouslly.

[osarusan]

Half time, 23-3 up. If only every day could be like this (so far).

And Scotland just suffered what must be one of the most embarrassing defeats in their history.

[osarusan]

Happy, happy days.

[OwlsFan]

Some raw emotion during the Irish national anthem which I never thought I'd see at a rugger match where most renditions I ever heard would barely be heard outside the ground. Most of the players gave so much in singing the anthem they had nothing left for Ireland's Call and you'll note that it was nearly only the Nordies who sang that.

Feared the worst when England came back after half time but great win in the end. Sat on the couch straight through from 1 pm to 9 pm: 3 rugby matches and a soccer match (Setanta Liv vs Piggies) with wife bringing in dinner on a tray. Life is good :D

[pete]

Great performance by Ireland. Not much to say but that they dominated in every area of the pitch.

I have noticed that Amhrán na bhFiann was sung with much more gusto this weekend & two weeks ago against France then you will ever hear for GAA match. I really hate the GAA habit of cheering before the anthem is finished. :(

[finlma]

What a day that was - I've never seen an atmosphere like it, glad I was there. Good to beat the English but I wouldn't get carried away - they are a very poor side. The 6 Nations can be seen as a failure as we didn't win the Grand Slam.

[theleprechaun]

quality game-even for those who were only watching on tv. what an atmosphere! and what a result! roll on the world cup!

[OneRedArmy]

Good to beat the English but I wouldn't get carried away - they are a very poor side. The 6 Nations can be seen as a failure as we didn't win the Grand Slam.Totally agree.

Italy will test us more than England and we are going to have to improve our performance hugely to beat Argentina and France in the World Cup.

[osarusan]

National Anthems. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6-bYixpYE&mode=related&search=)

I was sitting on my sofa at 2.30 last night, just begging that nobody do anything silly....I was terrified that there would be some protest or jeering during the anthems. How wrong I was.

My dad was describing this moment as one of the days that Ireland grew up - no petty quabbles or silly shouts, total respect for God Save the Queen, and then a magnificent reply.

Just look at John Hayes' face.

[Pauro 76]

I was very proud to watch the anthems being played. Was expecting a bit of hostility but was very happy to see the anthems being played with respect. History unfolded before my very eyes. We have grown up.

[OneRedArmy]

I really don't understand why people thought the anthems wouldn't be respected, unless they are unfamiliar with international rugby and particularly the fans that attend matches.

The media have been fairly shameful in the coverage over the past few weeks, whipping the whole anthems thing up into a frenzy when their was never an issue. GSTQ has been played before and was respected then so there was no reason why moving 3 miles would make it any different.

It certainly would've been different had it been a football match at Croker between England and Ireland, but rugby supporters, from all countries, are a respectful bunch by and large.

[sligoman]

I really don't understand why people thought the anthems wouldn't be respected, unless they are unfamiliar with international rugby and particularly the fans that attend matches.

The media have been fairly shameful in the coverage over the past few weeks, whipping the whole anthems thing up into a frenzy when their was never an issue. GSTQ has been played before and was respected then so there was no reason why moving 3 miles would make it any different.Of course their was an issue. While I agree that the media blew the whole thing out of proportion, their was still some risk of people booing it. Sure Sinn Fein were openly talking about staging a protest. GAA fans wouldn't have been happy about it either given all the history, so of course their was a risk.

Although their was arrests after the game, the genuine fans in side the ground treated GSTQ with respect so fair play to them!

[OneRedArmy]

Of course their was an issue. While I agree that the media blew the whole thing out of proportion, their was still some risk of people booing it. Sure Sinn Fein were openly talking about staging a protest. GAA fans wouldn't have been happy about it either given all the history, so of course their was a risk.

Although their was arrests after the game, the genuine fans in side the ground treated GSTQ with respect so fair play to them!Tickets for 6 nations games don't go on open sale, they are distributed through clubs.

Therefore the crowd consists overwhelmingly of rugby fans (who go year in year out, like myself), supplemented by the usual corporates and a small number of people wealthy enough to pay 4 figure sums for tickets from touts.

The vast majority of GAA members who attended are on the premium level and I suspect are not the type of people who boo anthems.

There was a protest outside involving 50-60 people (I saw 2) and there were 81,650 inside.

So now that I've established there was zero risk of people inside the ground booing, can you tell me where exactly was the risk (other than in the head of lazy hacks)?

Or maybe the shinners had an elaborate plan to use the Northern Bank robbery funds to buy thousands of tickets from touts to launch a undercover booing from inside the ground?:rolleyes:

[OwlsFan]

It certainly would've been different had it been a football match at Croker between England and Ireland, but rugby supporters, from all countries, are a respectful bunch by and large.

I disagree. I don't remember GstQ being booed when England played at Lansdowne in the soccer games or indeed in Stuttgart or Sardinia. Some Irish plum mouthed historian whom Sky wheeled out said the same thing as you but Irish soccer fans have always respected the opponent's anthem, including GstQ.

[NeilMcD]

Tickets for 6 nations games don't go on open sale, they are distributed through clubs.

Therefore the crowd consists overwhelmingly of rugby fans (who go year in year out, like myself), supplemented by the usual corporates and a small number of people wealthy enough to pay 4 figure sums for tickets from touts.

The vast majority of GAA members who attended are on the premium level and I suspect are not the type of people who boo anthems.

There was a protest outside involving 50-60 people (I saw 2) and there were 81,650 inside.

So now that I've established there was zero risk of people inside the ground booing, can you tell me where exactly was the risk (other than in the head of lazy hacks)?

Or maybe the shinners had an elaborate plan to use the Northern Bank robbery funds to buy thousands of tickets from touts to launch a undercover booing from inside the ground?:rolleyes:


Was it not Republican Sinn Féin rather than just Sinn Féin. Not that I am a supporter of either.

[geysir]

Totally agree.
Italy will test us more than England and we are going to have to improve our performance hugely to beat Argentina and France in the World Cup.
I think the performance against England showed clear evidence of improvement in the fields of play which were lacking against France.
In comparison to the French at home I think the Irish display was so much more commanding.
The Welsh had 3 very kickable penalties missed, who knows how much closer they could have gotten.
It looks to me that's its about 50/50 between us and France.