Top players will quit if Staunton forced out

[RogerMilla]

nobody moaned when we lost 1-0 to france in dublin because the players gave their all , fact is that the cyprus and san marino games are indicative of a lackadaisical attitude to our national team by some of the players, All we ask for is effort. I for one would drop both keane and duff from the first 11 in order to make them fight for their places or at least one of them , the other would get the message that no-one is undroppable then.

[geysir]

After first spinning the rumour out of stale air, Fanning now bravely throws down the gauntlet to the players to come out and deny the rumour.
A sure sign of a story gasping for life.

[NeilMcD]

I think Duff is trying to be honest just out of form I would reckon he tried the hardest in San Marino but its not very productive at the moment but that is more due to the fact that the tactics and organisation of the team is a shambles.

[tetsujin1979]

I actually thought Duff played alright in San Marino, he just needed to cross the ball earlier, rather than try to beat 3 or 4 players every time.

[galwayhoop]

Ian Harte was interview before the game and he said what they needed to do was to play a quick game, pass quickly and use their superior pace to stretch and move the San Marinians. Now if they knew what to do why didn't they do it?

:eek:
i know that san marino are bad but when ian harte is coming out in the media to say he's gonna burn them with his electric pace then you really do know that there are very few worse teams!!!

[eirebhoy]

I actually can't believe so many want Duff dropped tbh.

[osarusan]

From my own observation and knowledge of some of the ROI players mentioned, I'd be surprised if they really were threatening to quit should Stan be sacked. After all, if they really cared that much for him, that loyalty would be more evident on the pitch.

A good point.

Does anybody know why they would have such strong desire to see him remain?

What hidden aspect of his management has earned their loyalty?

[galwayhoop]

without knowing the entire ins and outs but from what is written (i know not fact but as close as we got) things are a bit easier under 'da gaffer' than kerr.

but you would think with lads giving up time that they wouldn't be looking for a few days holiday but actually looking at qualifing for the major tournements.

[galwayhoop]

I actually can't believe so many want Duff dropped tbh.


yeah i think your right eirebhoy. duff is suffering from a serious lack of form and dip in confidence. not to be confused with robbie keane who seems to be suffering from a serious lack of effort and would rather direct the planes onto the runway at dublin airport

[OwlsFan]

yeah i think your right eirebhoy. duff is suffering from a serious lack of form and dip in confidence. not to be confused with robbie keane who seems to be suffering from a serious lack of effort and would rather direct the planes onto the runway at dublin airport


So did Long also suffer from a "serious lack of effort" - how many times did Long actually make a run to get through on goal? At least Robbie did at least twice as far as I can remember. So let's all direct the flak at Robbie. Talk to me about Long's performance and don't say it's not fair to compare the two as both are Premiership strikers and in fact Long probably starts more often than Robbie these days. Was Long not trying either? No, let's just have a go at Keane :rolleyes:

[micls]

So did Long also suffer from a "serious lack of effort" - how many times did Long actually make a run to get through on goal? At least Robbie did at least twice as far as I can remember. So let's all direct the flak at Robbie. Talk to me about Long's performance and don't say it's not fair to compare the two as both are Premiership strikers and in fact Long probably starts more often than Robbie these days. Was Long not trying either? No, let's just have a go at Keane :rolleyes:

No, Long was a ****ing nervous kid on his debut, who needed support from our superstars who didnt turn up.

Keane is our captain. Slight difference ffs

[eirebhoy]

Probably a reason why Stokes should have started then. He has admitted many times he doesn't get nervous in matches. In saying that I wasn't bothered who started out of the 2 but I'm not the manager. In hindsight Stokes was more suited to partner Keane.

[JimmyP]

So did Long also suffer from a "serious lack of effort" - how many times did Long actually make a run to get through on goal? At least Robbie did at least twice as far as I can remember. So let's all direct the flak at Robbie. Talk to me about Long's performance and don't say it's not fair to compare the two as both are Premiership strikers and in fact Long probably starts more often than Robbie these days. Was Long not trying either? No, let's just have a go at Keane :rolleyes:

No, I would have a go at Long. Okay, it was his first cap and in the days leading up to the game there was an awful lot of hype piled on Long which was probably over the top, but I remember seeing him early in the second half with his hands on his hips and the image only compounded what I thought was a frustrating peformance from him.

Granted, the likes of Keane had been telling him to "go and have fun" with the match and maybe he did just that a little too much. I was not impressed at all with his debut. Hunt and Stokes had a lot less time on the field and there was far more hunger and urgency from them...although we were in dire straits at that point.

As for Keane, we can argue about dips of form and wages and his former glories all day long, but the fact that he said "the fans will be delighted with the win" say a lot. It's taking the nation's supporters for granted. Those words suggest a lack of respect and a disconnection from reality.

Although I think the story about our "top players" threatening to quit is hard to believe [a senior player was anonymously quoted as describing Stanuton as "clueless" in the Times on Sunday and I think that's far more realisitic, as anonymous references go] but if it is true, I'd welcome it. He'd get a healthy dose of reality about where he'd stand over here fairly quick smart.

He has been (justifiably) treated as a legend for becoming the nation's top goal-scorer in his mid-20s. After people in Ireland fawning over him for so long, it'd be only natural for part of him to believe his own hype and to think: "well, i've done it all at this point" and the next thing you know, he's just not hungry for it anymore. If he bails on us prematurely over this Staunton issue, he'll get a good kick up his arse if he ever plans to come back over to Ireland: the pats on the back will be replaced by something else entirely - and that won't sit too well with his glorified self-image that we as fans have helped create.

Someone made a comparison with the Rugby lads the other day and I think it's a valid point. If you watch their matches, you'll notice a huge difference: EFFORT.
They have clubs (a few overseas, at that) who pay their wages yet there is no shortage of passion there. They want it.
If it's true that Robbie Keane said to a fan in Cyprus "Ireland doesn't pay my wages" then that is sick, in my opinion. Let him quit. He'd be back fairly quickly, I can promise you that. Of course he'd be pi$$ed off with the media coverage over here - he doesn't think he should have to hear criticism after all he has contributed. But egos need praise, and if he turns his back on international football, he'll find himself very short on fuel.

I'd rather a squad of Championship-level players with heart play who for pride and punch above their weight when required than lads who think they can take the foot off the pedal because they've done enough in the past.

[fergalr]

I actually thought Duff played alright in San Marino, he just needed to cross the ball earlier, rather than try to beat 3 or 4 players every time.
This was San Marino FFS. And against a left full so looked so out of shape that he would be embarrassed in my Monday night astropark game.

Sorry to say it but right now Duff is well named (and Keane isn't).

[eirebhoy]

This was San Marino FFS. And against a left full so looked so out of shape that he would be embarrassed in my Monday night astropark game.

Sorry to say it but right now Duff is well named (and Keane isn't).
Everyone's saying that Duff is living on his reputation but overall Duff was one of our best performers in San Marino. He took about 30 minutes to settle in but after that he played well. His reputation is being used as a reason to drop him. He's not the same player he was. So be it. He's still one of our best players.

[shakermaker1982]

what do you expect from a guy that has been injured on a regular basis since he moved to Newcastle? The guy needs a good run of games, his injury proneness worries me. Is he rushed back too soon or is his body susceptible to injuries?

[Lionel Ritchie]

James Quinn, an (English-born) footballer from "the other Ireland" once said:

"You don't retire from your country, your country retires you"..

Now remind me ...was it Peterborough or Northampton he was playing for when he said that?:p ;)


Those of you who might have seen him plying his trade in the lower reaches of English football will know that when it came to ability, he never had much to show.
But those who saw him play internationally know that no-one ever showed greater effort or commitment. Fair comment. Only winding :cool:

[OwlsFan]

No, Long was a ****ing nervous kid on his debut, who needed support from our superstars who didnt turn up.

Nervous against San Marino in front of 2500 supporters when he is used to playing in front of 30K plus. To use your own expression for ffs. The point is did he not try either as is alleged against Robbie?

[Nailer77]

Long was a debutant and to expect him to come on and shine when the rest of the senior established players can't be bothered their arse is expecting too much. Keane is captain, Keane is supposed to lead the team, he's supposed to set and example. If its true regarding the comments in San Marino or that he's tying his future in with Stans then I've lost the bit of respect I had for the lad. You'd at least think they'd have the balls to put their name to something instead of this cloak and dagger muck. Mind you its probably just Delaney putting this garbage out.

[NeilMcD]

Lads I cant belive people are judging Keane on something that has not been proved to be trues at all. If you believe Keane was a joke on the field fair enough as many of us think he was poor now for a while but dont try to use fabricated nonsense by Dion Fanning as proof to back up an argument. And then say that the fact there are no quotes, shows that iits cloak and dagger stuff.

[Nailer77]

Lads I cant belive people are judging Keane on something that has not been proved to be trues at all. If you believe Keane was a joke on the field fair enough as many of us think he was poor now for a while but dont try to use fabricated nonsense by Dion Fanning as proof to back up an argument. And then say that the fact there are no quotes, shows that iits cloak and dagger stuff.

Well thats were the 'If' part comes into it! I'll generally judge someone on what I see on the field, and you get a lot of arm waving and gesticulating from Robbie these days and little else. Not nearly good enough, and certainly not good enough for a captain.

[galwayhoop]

So did Long also suffer from a "serious lack of effort" - how many times did Long actually make a run to get through on goal?

honestly i'm not convienced about long at all. he seems to give the balll away more often than not and seems very light. i would have much preferred to have seen stokes start against SM. i could be wrong about long but imo at the moment i don't think he is up to it - premiership or international. i know he has scored a couple but i reckon physically and as i said the amount of possession he squanders is too much.

[Traps Cat]

Fanning out!!!

[bennocelt]

im curious, i have only seen Long play once with reading, but do they play him more as an inside forward, rather then an out and out striker?

[NeilMcD]

Did anybody see what Kerr said the other night about the players and his view that he felt that some players possibley were not giving their all. Very interesting. I think he is both the best and worst person to comment on the attitude of the players playing for ireland at the moment.

[Billsthoughts]

not like you to sit on the fence anyway neil....:rolleyes:

[NeilMcD]

Not sitting on the fence just think that Kerr was on the inside so he can see whether the players were trying or not and he has seen at first hand. However he also could be bitter towards the players and his judgement could be clouded by that also. There are 2 sides to most stories and I dont go for overly simplistic rants to problems. I was and am a supporter of Kerr and dont rate Staunton but I do understand the criticisms of Kerrs management but I would have him back in the morning.

[NeilMcD]

This is what he said. From eleven a side.


Kerr hits out at underachieving Irish

February 15, 2007

Former Republic of Ireland manager Brian Kerr has moved to deflect criticism from current boss Steve Staunton in the wake of last week’s abysmal performance in San Marino – by slamming the attitude of the Ireland players.

Kerr spent almost three years in the job before being removed at the end of the 2006 World Cup qualification programme.

The performances of the Irish team have dipped markedly since then, with three shocking displays in Staunton’s eight games in charge: heavy defeats to Holland and Cyprus followed by last week’s abject 2-1 win over San Marino.

But Kerr believes the players, and not Stan, are most culpable for the level of performance on offer in recent months.

He told the Irish Daily Star: “I certainly wondered whether they cared enough at times, given the level they’re playing at every week and so on. That question mark is always going to be there when you have a performance like you had last week and against Cyprus.

“It’s a reasonable question to ask and it’s certainly something that needs to be put to the players at times.

“I suppose it’s easy for me to say this but at times there’s too much attention put on the staff, and the manager in particular, rather than the performance of the players.”

[pineapple stu]

Down through the years we have struggled against the minnows away from home...We needed some very late goals against Malta and Cyprus several times and McCarthy's team struggled away to Andorra
Several times?

Stan scored late on in Malta to seal a win in 2001, and Stapleton scored over 20 years ago on a disgrace of a pitch. The 2001 game was the only time Malta have even scored on us. All the other games were largely comfortable - 8-0, 2-0, 2-0, 3-0, 5-0. Ditto Cyprus - bar that 3-2 win in 1980, we've won 6-0, 4-0, 4-0, 3-0 and 1-0 (not with a late goal). I don't think it's really fair to bring games from 20-25 years ago, when we had never qualified for a major tournament, into the equation.

I also don't think we struggled against Andorra in the way we struggled against San Marino. For a start, Andorra are a better team who have actually taken points off people (four from Macedonia in the last campaign alone), and secondly, we did end up breaking them down and coming through 3-0. That's how those games go at times. Far different from the struggle we had last week.

[OwlsFan]

He told the Irish Daily Star: “I certainly wondered whether they cared enough at times, given the level they’re playing at every week and so on. That question mark is always going to be there when you have a performance like you had last week and against Cyprus.

“It’s a reasonable question to ask and it’s certainly something that needs to be put to the players at times.

“I suppose it’s easy for me to say this but at times there’s too much attention put on the staff, and the manager in particular, rather than the performance of the players.”

When he mentioned Cyprus, I wonder did he also mean to include his own team's performance there as well, which but for Given, could almost have been as bad a result.

There's a hint there that he was let down by the players as well. Mind you no one ever mentioned "the staff" except him with his super duper background boys and preparation. Saipan apart, it's usually just about the players and the manager.

[OwlsFan]

Long was a debutant and to expect him to come on and shine when the rest of the senior established players can't be bothered their arse is expecting too much. Keane is captain, Keane is supposed to lead the team, he's supposed to set and example. If its true regarding the comments in San Marino or that he's tying his future in with Stans then I've lost the bit of respect I had for the lad. You'd at least think they'd have the balls to put their name to something instead of this cloak and dagger muck. Mind you its probably just Delaney putting this garbage out.

Keane "bothered his arse" to make runs through on goal twice in the first half. Saw nothing like that from Long. I also saw Robbie working hard to close down defenders. The arm waving aside, I still have a lot of time for Keane who has never failed to turn up for his country and who now seems to be carrying the can for an inept performance. I suppose he was to blame for the 5-2 defeat in Cyprus as well and should have been back clearing the ball off the line.

I don't think he should be captain but it's hard to see who else fits that role as there don't appear to be any natural leaders in the squad.

[NeilMcD]

When he mentioned Cyprus, I wonder did he also mean to include his own team's performance there as well, which but for Given, could almost have been as bad a result.

There's a hint there that he was let down by the players as well. Mind you no one ever mentioned "the staff" except him with his super duper background boys and preparation. Saipan apart, it's usually just about the players and the manager.

YOu seem like you are bitter towards Kerr for actually having good preparation. Comments like Super Duper background boys and preparation give the impression that you see it as a bad thing that Kerr prepared the Irish team well on the technical side of the game. It seems every time we get a new manager we through the throw the baby out with the bath water. So we seem to get the opposite to what went before. Why can Staunton have great preparation like Kerr etc and also have maybe better team spirit. Just cause we failed to qualify under Kerr does not mean that he was doing things the right way 90% of the time.

[RogerMilla]

i can agree with that , there was a lot that kerr did well. trouble is he lost the dressing room so all the good innovations were flushed away with him and of course he was too conservative.
if we had put israel away at home it could heave been so different though

[micls]

Nervous against San Marino in front of 2500 supporters when he is used to playing in front of 30K plus. To use your own expression for ffs. The point is did he not try either as is alleged against Robbie?

Well you see some playuers actually give a crap about representing their country and yes i think this would make the lad nervous on his debut. Its not just about the opposition or the crowd its his international debut.

Robbie has consitently not tried as you put it.

Tbh i think Long was the wrong choice to play against San Marino. He's a very quick player who will score with balls played in behind. The type of San Marino game was never gonna suit him, he's not the type of player we needed but our manager doesnt have a clue about this stuff.

I differentiate between Keane and Long based on the fact that as our captain and all time highest scorer its his job to go out and shine regularly and help the debutants along. Long didnt play well, but it was one game. Its a regular thing with Keane

[NeilMcD]

Well said there Micls about Long and his liking for a ball over the top to chase behind a back four pushed up. This was never going to happen and sadly I dont have any confidence that Staunton actually thinks about such things. With Kerr at least you knew that he did. He was lacking on the team bonding side of things it seems.

[OwlsFan]

I differentiate between Keane and Long based on the fact that as our captain and all time highest scorer its his job to go out and shine regularly and help the debutants along. Long didnt play well, but it was one game. Its a regular thing with Keane

Even if he's out of form as he obviously is at club and international level? People expect too much from Keane because of past performances. He still tries hard in my opinion but has lost the magic touch. Until someone better comes along, he should still be picked. Stokes and possibly Long may eventually replace him but let them prove themselves at club level. He was still the only one at that SM game that managed to get 1 and 1 with the keeper. If Long's strength is these runs, why didn't he get in as well?

[OwlsFan]

YOu seem like you are bitter towards Kerr for actually having good preparation. Comments like Super Duper background boys and preparation give the impression that you see it as a bad thing that Kerr prepared the Irish team well on the technical side of the game. It seems every time we get a new manager we through the throw the baby out with the bath water. So we seem to get the opposite to what went before. Why can Staunton have great preparation like Kerr etc and also have maybe better team spirit. Just cause we failed to qualify under Kerr does not mean that he was doing things the right way 90% of the time.

Not bitter. Just such a song and dance was made about it post Saipan and he mentions "staff" again and yet no one else does. Nothing wrong with good preparation but it's the relationship between the manager and the players and the tactics which count. Not whether it's Mick Byrne or someone whose name I don't remember is the physio or whether a practice pitch is bumpy ;)

I was neutral when it came to Kerr. He got Keane back which played a large part in his results but I think by concentrating on all the preparation, he lost sight of the basic aim: beat the opposition. Whether he would have got much out of this crop of players without Roy Keane is doubtful but it's all speculation.

[dr_peepee]

I still believe Kerr would have made a great right hand man to an Ireland manager rather than being the big dog!!

[geysir]

Keane was the problem then he became the solution.
When we had Keane, we didn't need a manager.
Without Keane, Kerr's results were poor.
It won't be difficult for Stan to better that.

[Kingdom]

Several times?

Stan scored late on in Malta to seal a win in 2001, and Stapleton scored over 20 years ago on a disgrace of a pitch. The 2001 game was the only time Malta have even scored on us. All the other games were largely comfortable - 8-0, 2-0, 2-0, 3-0, 5-0. Ditto Cyprus - bar that 3-2 win in 1980, we've won 6-0, 4-0, 4-0, 3-0 and 1-0 (not with a late goal). I don't think it's really fair to bring games from 20-25 years ago, when we had never qualified for a major tournament, into the equation.

I also don't think we struggled against Andorra in the way we struggled against San Marino. For a start, Andorra are a better team who have actually taken points off people (four from Macedonia in the last campaign alone), and secondly, we did end up breaking them down and coming through 3-0. That's how those games go at times. Far different from the struggle we had last week.

Thanks Stu. I knew there was a post somewhere that I meant to take up! Last week was the worst performance I've ever seen from an Irish team. There's been some bollo*x posted over the last 10 days or so.
The performance was crap, there seemed to be no soul/passion from the players. Staunton is a joke, as is the management team, but he's backed to the hilt by toupée, so it would take an absolute riot in Croker for him to be sacked.

It seems to be a catch 22 situation for most fans. On one hand you want Ireland to win all their games and hopefully qualify/do the best they can, whereas on the other hand, you know Staunton is gank and won't get this team anywhere near qualifying.
As for the tripe written by Fanning in the Sindo last week, well I hope for the sake of the players that is was written unfounded. The players loyalty should be to the shirt and to each other, not a gimp manager and the clown who appointed him. And if it really is down to the meeja getting on their backs, well, if some of them showed half the heart of Given and young McShane, then the fans wouldn't get on to them all the time, we can take defeats but not embarrasments.

[conlonn]

Jesus Owlsfan your some clown to think Robbie Keane tries his best for Ireland, he is useless for Ireland and never stops whingeing, He was good for the first 50 caps or so but for the last 2 years or so he has been brutal but he is not alone in that. Half of the rest of the team Ireland have put out especially away from home have not tried or given 100%, At home they seem to perform much bettter

[citizenerased]

In fairness to kerr he was a victim . the big time charllies like keane, duff, carr etc didnt like the fact that kerr over prepared for a match, making them watch a dvd of the opposition etc when they wanted to go to lillies...if he had the respect of the players he would have been a success, u didnt hear of any players threathening to quit for him....foock duff and keane their complaceny is a disease, its not like they have done anything of merit since 2002

[Lionel Ritchie]

Sadly I suspect Citizenerased is onto something. I've long been suspicious of the near unanimous opposition, among our squad, to a non-Irish manager and what lies between the lines when they've parroted the "not understanding the Irish mentality" tripe as a reason for their opposition.

[OwlsFan]

Jesus Owlsfan your some clown to think Robbie Keane tries his best for Ireland, he is useless for Ireland and never stops whingeing, He was good for the first 50 caps or so but for the last 2 years or so he has been brutal but he is not alone in that. Half of the rest of the team Ireland have put out especially away from home have not tried or given 100%, At home they seem to perform much bettter

I was at the game in SM. He worked as hard if not harder than some on the pitch. You are equating not being effective with not trying his best. The two are NOT the same. The hand waving is irritating but is symptomatic of his frustration. Robbie is not the player he was a few years ago but it's not from want of trying. So apart from the scapecot, Robbie, who else among the "half the team" "have not tried or given 100%"?

[conlonn]

John OShea (over rated, friendly against Portugal spring 05 he gave ball away to the opposition 9 times in the first half alone!!), Steve Finnan very good for Liverpool but for Ireland!!, and Robbie Keane (2 goals today for Spurs!!!! and in imporant games for Ireland has oly performed well in perhaps3 or four games in the last 20, he is the captain should lead by example, but does not! he is not a leader!
plus the constant changing inentre midfield all lead to poor performance, At home they perfom ok, but take them away from Ireland they perform way elow par!

[Den Perry]

good riddance keane and Duff, over paid tossers, bring in Stokes and Hunt and Geary and Mccarthy


What a stupid statement...do you honestly think we would be better off without Keane and Duff? if so you havent got a clue

[Den Perry]

Cathal Dervan had something similar to this in yesterdays Star. Sounds like a load of rubbish to me. As has been said above, anyone who wants to quit the Irish team, they know where the door is (I know I've stopped being a supporter for the last year.) By the way, hilarious to read Dervans stuff now, about how sacking the manager is a knee jerk reaction, he needs time ,etc, etc. Dervan went out on a limb backing Staunton for the job (before anyone else as far as I remember) after a disgraceful campaign against Brian Kerr, and now he's stuck out there, waiting for the branch to break. Hope he ends up with a lot of bruises from the fall. Probably the worst football "journalist" in the country. (and that's a competitive race :D )

Lets not forget Roy Curtis....

KOH

[tetsujin1979]

John OShea (over rated, friendly against Portugal spring 05 he gave ball away to the opposition 9 times in the first half alone!!)
Where did you get this stat? And do you have the stats for the other players that day?

[OwlsFan]

John OShea (over rated, friendly against Portugal spring 05 he gave ball away to the opposition 9 times in the first half alone!!), Steve Finnan very good for Liverpool but for Ireland!!, and Robbie Keane (2 goals today for Spurs!!!! and in imporant games for Ireland has oly performed well in perhaps3 or four games in the last 20, he is the captain should lead by example, but does not! he is not a leader!
plus the constant changing inentre midfield all lead to poor performance, At home they perfom ok, but take them away from Ireland they perform way elow par!

You said "half the team". That's 3 players and tell me anyone who "overrates" John O'Shea.

As for our not performing away from home, this is not recent news you know. The last decent victory against a group rival in an away game was Scotland in 1987!!

[geysir]

Where did you get this stat? And do you have the stats for the other players that day?
Tets, I think stats are your toys then :)