San Marino v Ireland match thread

[Jerry The Saint]

What can be learned by playing Kilbane?? The Wigan fans have recently been on his back and he was dropped at the weekend. His selection makes me slightly angry.

I believe it's written somewhere in the UEFA constitution that Killer has to play in every competitive game. John O'Shea seems to have a similar loophole and now he's shown he can play in goal expect him to end up there eventually.


I cannot believe he's playing O'Shea. Since McShane's on a yellow why oh why was O'Dea not called up?

Playing in Scotland is only marginally more beneficial to a player's international prospects that playing in Ireland it seems. McCarthy, O'Brien and Breen have all been banished from international football, Staunton lives quite near Coventry - is a possible call-up for Colin Hawkins, about 8 years after he was actually good enough to deserve one, on the cards in the not-too-distant future:confused:

[Greenbod]

This was a game to bring Hunt in and get him prepared for international football against a gang of candle stick makers, but as usual Staunton ****ed up. .

How does playing against candle stick makers prepare you for international football?...............if that were the case, even I'm prepared.

[pete]

Those stats are extremely selective. What about the 2 previous games? I know he hasn't played that much this season for Utd. but you're slightly twisted the stats to suit your agenda.

Indeed he did play the full 90 minutes in the previous two games but looked like others given a break over christmas period.

O'Shea is sh!te. I don't need facts to prove that. Aside from Manchester United bench he'd be lucky to get game with any other Premiership team.

Manchester United premiership games (can't count league cup as 15 year old kids get games in that):
- 26 games in total
- 10 games started including the first 5 of the season August-Sept
- 13 sub appearances averaging 13 minutes per appearance off the bench. My impression is he comes off the bench when the game already won so as to give others a rest.

[Greenbod]

O'Shea is the only player I can think of who has consistently....I mean always and without exception played badly for us when selected.

[as_i_say]

O'Shea is the only player I can think of who has consistently....I mean always and without exception played badly for us when selected.

in a nutshell, correct. He still keeps getting picked though. But even at united early this season and last season when he was awful, he was getting picked regularly-theres no explanation for it really.

Mindboggling.

[galwayhoop]

it's offical JoS is alex ferguson, brian kerr & steve staunton's love child

[Irish_Praha]

Every team needs it's token ga..., I mean sh!t player. To deflect some of the critisim from the manager when the team plays badly.

[galwayhoop]

oh and kilbane is the love child of mick mccarthy, brian kerr & stan.

it really is strange. you often see managers seem to have players who they rate higher than most observers - down to many reasons training, create a good atmosphere in dressing room ... whatever. but these lads seem to have a never ending stream of admiring managers while most supporters simply don't rate them highly at all.

that said with the squad selected JoS's inclusion was always a possibility but this Kilbane fetish - he should of been overlooked for this one. personally i think we should move on as a footballing nation without them

[cavan_fan]

Every team needs it's token ga..., I mean sh!t player. To deflect some of the critisim from the manager when the team plays badly.

baseless allegations!:D

[Fergie's Son]

I am very frustrated with Kilbane's continued playing time. That said, it's a decent, balanced side.

No complaints here.

[JimmyP]

Since McShane's on a yellow why oh why was O'Dea not called up?

Staunton claims to have rung Strachan about calling O'Dea into the squad only to be told he wasn't ready for international football yet, in his opinion.

[rambler14]

McShane has a gash on his thigh and is on a yellow card so I suppose Stan didn't want to risk him against SM(It's just not worth it).
I'm sure if he was fit then he would have started at centre back with O'Shea moving to left back in place of Ian Harte.
As for Kilbane hes only in the team to add experience. No matter who your playing, when your away from home u need experienced players.

[as_i_say]

i'd rather have kilbane in the team at any cost rather than o shea- at least kilbane has periods in every game where he makes a contribution, unlike o shea who is consistently muck for the entire 90 minutes.

Its as if JOS knows he is untouchable for whatever reason. There is no excuse for playing him any more. even against poor opposition like SM. Was anyone here at the SM game in Landsdowne? There were just gasps and groans from the crowd resulting from his play-he really was that atrocious. Nothing personal-nice lad, needs to be dropped.

[cavan_fan]

A good article from Tom Humphries this morning. I think like all of us he's not convinced by Stan but is desperate to be proved wrong.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Waiting for Stan's men to show passion
Tom Humphries In San Marino

The grand illusion. In out-of-season Rimini nobody sips espressos under Campari umbrellas outside the street cafes. The wind whistles through the gay awnings and the beach bars are shuttered. Anything which opens at all shuts down early.

It's a downbeat place in February, and the mood was unaltered late on Monday night when a busload of Irish media types were installed into a hotel on a street named for Federico Fellini.

Through pecking at their laptops and sifting through player quotes the fourth estate have been working like an effects department to drum up some excitement for Ireland's European Championship campaign.

It ain't easy. We feel like candyfloss vendors in the out-of-season.

Unless everything we know is wrong (and hey!), Ireland should beat San Marino here tonight by a hatful of goals.

Alright, a capful. Ireland don't score goals by the hatful anymore and the statistical (never to be equalled) quirk of the campaign so far has been our trick of conceding as many goals away to Cyprus as we scored at home to San Marino.

Still. What injects some drama into tonight's panto is the stark reality that anything other than a win would spell the end of Stave Staunton's Republic of Ireland managerial career. If he loses control tonight there'll be a hefty sheaf of newspapers he'll want to avoid tomorrow.

Staunton's demeanour is that of a man under pressure. It's not exactly mission impossible that he has been handed, however. In 37 starts in European qualifying games San Marino have never nicked a point off anyone.

Despite being famous for having briefly held the lead against England when they scored a goal in seven seconds into a World Cup qualifier 14 years ago, San Marino have never held the lead in a Euro qualifier. (What a heady time that must have been. San Marino pinched a draw against Turkey in the same campaign. Their Charlton era.)

They start tonight knowing that their last game here against Germany saw them suffer a record 13 goals to nil drubbing.

It's 12 years since they scored in a European qualifying campaign (Pier-Domenico Delle Valle is the name you're trying to think of. He scored against Finland).

Their current goal difference in the group is minus-25 after three games. Their choice of goalkeepers for tonight is between the man who conceded 12 in two games and the man who conceded 13 in one.

If Staunton thinks he has problems, he is right. He just shouldn't have any here.

He has brought a young side with him and he needs to have the guts to play a few of them tonight.

It's true that an upset would cost him his job (and FAI chief executive John Delaney would walk the plank too), but if we are to take seriously the talk of four-year plans that's a risk which has to be taken.

Qualification already looks beyond us with eight games left and six points cutting us off from the top two teams in Group D.

If we forget all the nonsense about Delaney scouring the world for a world-class manager like Tommy Lee Jones searching for the fugitive and we accept Steve Staunton as what we ended up with, we will remember that the principle qualification claimed on his behalf at his coronation was that he was a motivator who would bring the passion back to Irish performances.

Fair enough. Now is the time.

Irish support will forgive almost anything except gutlessness on the field and off it.

A young Irish team for the next couple of years sprinkled with the Shane Longs, the Aiden McGeadys and Kevin Doyles (both sadly absent here), the Paul McShanes, Anthony Stokes and Stephen Irelands, could whet Irish appetites all over again. If we get one genuine wonderkid from the possibilities offered by teenagers Terry Dixon and Jamie McCarthy it would be a huge bonus too.

There's a chance to get past this era of surly non-performance and re-establish ourselves as a team which plays in the spirit of the nation it comes from.

Ireland finish this campaign in Croke Park next October with a game against Cyprus and then a trip to Cardiff the following month. We have become accustomed even in the leaner times to being in the shake-up for qualification right to the last games. This time such a finale is unlikely and Croker and Cardiff could be lonely places in winter.

Lee Carsley spoke the other day about his first qualifying campaign with Ireland when Mick McCarthy brought him into an Irish squad trying to qualify for France '98. It was a campaign with some major setbacks along the way, but we made a play-off series versus Belgium and along the way McCarthy blooded the basis of the side who would reach the next World Cup. Carsley made his debut as a 20-year-old in the home fixture versus Romania.

It took guts back then to bring kids to places like Bucharest and Skopje. Ian Harte was 19 and thrown in at centre back in Bucharest.

We missed a penalty and lost 1-0, but such was the feeling of hope and passion which the game threw up that the FAI offered McCarthy a contract extension on the way home. Sometimes you just need to show that you are on the right road and have the right instinct.

Steve Staunton has the young players with which to implement a four-year plan. He has the remnants of Mick McCarthy's younger teams and the products of Brian Kerr's sterling work all coming into their primes. As a player, Staunton was about guts and motivation and getting the most out of himself.

Tonight, if he starts managing in the same way, he could bring some people with him, but an unadventurous team selection suggests that Staunton isn't ready for that leap.

© 2007 The Irish Times

[dr_peepee]

Stans reluctance to call up depth in positions, whilst prefering to move evperienced players out of position will cost us in the long term. I think you have to have the depth in positions, even if the standeard isn't what it once was. If/When O'Dea or whoever eventually makes the squad on merit as opposed to injuries/unavailibility, their lack of experience will be cited by the management. Let's remove that paticular hurdle by using injuries/unavailibility as opportunities wherever possible. What's to be gained tonight playing JO'S at centre half tonight? Will we learn anything new?

Don't think there's much between Hunt and Kilbane tbh, but again what are we going to learn from Kilbane tonight. I also think Kilbane is in there to support the Ireland/Carsley axis as much as Harte at left full.

Looking forward to seeing Long tonight. Should, on paper anyway, provide a decent compliment for Keane, as would Kehoe. There are so many players I'd like to see tonight but there's only three subs.

[gustavo]

Its a bit ridiculous alright playing John O'Shea at CB , a man who is probalbly about 6th choice CB for his club

[Lionel Ritchie]

McShane has a gash on his thigh and is on a yellow card so I suppose Stan didn't want to risk him against SM.

Heard Stan on Morning Ireland and this was the reasoning he gave for McShanes ommision. Fair enough.

[finnpark]

Heard Stan on Morning Ireland and this was the reasoning he gave for McShanes ommision. Fair enough.

McShane is over rated and his club form has been useless. That is why he isnt starting. Hes not up to it.

[eirebhoy]

Staunton claims to have rung Strachan about calling O'Dea into the squad only to be told he wasn't ready for international football yet, in his opinion.
Where did you hear that? Just interested.

[Jerry The Saint]

It's true that an upset would cost him his job (and FAI chief executive John Delaney would walk the plank too)

I don't even think the bit in bold is true, but if it was... that would be some incentive to cheer on the San Marinionés tonight, wouldn't it? Do you think the Irish players know what's at stake:confused:

[gustavo]

Staunton seems to be very led by coaches and managers of the players clubs going by reading this forum

[finnpark]

Staunton seems to be very led by coaches and managers of the players clubs going by reading this forum

I think most International managers are. You don't really know how good or bad or what potential a player has unless your watching every week in the flesh and watching him at training.

[galwayhoop]

Where did you hear that? Just interested.

i think stan said it in one of his interviews just after the squad was named. AFAIK it was on FAI website but i can't find it now

[Jerry The Saint]

Average age of tonight's side is 26. Going by the famous '4-year plan' (1 year down already) these lads will be almost 30 on average by the time the next World Cup comes around. Seems to me like it's just something for Staunton to say during press conferences rather than any deep-seated philosophy...

[tetsujin1979]

McShane is over rated and his club form has been useless. That is why he isnt starting. Hes not up to it.
He's started every game bar 1 since coming on as a sub against Sheffield Wednesday in November: http://www.soccerbase.com/players_details.sd?playerid=11080
He isn't starting tonight because he's on a yellow and it's not worth the risk of losing him for the Welsh game

[paul_oshea]

Average age of tonight's side is 26. Going by the famous '4-year plan' (1 year down already) these lads will be almost 30 on average by the time the next World Cup comes around. Seems to me like it's just something for Staunton to say during press conferences rather than any deep-seated philosophy...

ya but its not technically 4 years till the next world cup....plus qualification will be within just over 2.5 years....but i know what you are saying

[Jerry The Saint]

ya but its not technically 4 years till the next world cup....plus qualification will be within just over 2.5 years....but i know what you are saying

It's actually 26 years and 3 months by my reckoning so June 2010 would give an average age of 29 and 7 months for these same players.

26 - 27 is often judged to be a players peak so it's really only Henderson, Ireland and Long that fit the 'give youth a chance' theme tonight.

[cavan_fan]

It's actually 26 years and 3 months by my reckoning so June 2010 would give an average age of 29 and 7 months for these same players.

26 - 27 is often judged to be a players peak so it's really only Henderson, Ireland and Long that fit the 'give youth a chance' theme tonight.

I've said beofre we have a bit of a time bomb around our players retiring. I know we may have no faith in some of them but Finnan, Dunne, Harte, Kilbane, O'Shea, Carsley, Duff and Keane will all leave within a few years of each other. That means we may need to replace 8 players in one campaign. It's another reason not to keep picking Kilbane and O'Shea.

[Supreme feet]

I would be a bit worried if that team was to start against Wales or Slovakia. We'll be fine tonight, but the centre of midfield really worries me. We've got Carsley - a very limited player coming to the end of his career - playing alongside Ireland, who I don't believe has the physique or footballing brain to become a top-class midfielder. He'll more than likely end up like Miller, McPhail or Mahon - a luxury player for a Championship club.

Staunton has picked a lop-sided squad - What's the point in picking five players (O'Brien, Hunt, Duff, Kilbane, S. Quinn) for one position? Left-midfield is not a problem for us. Staunton should be looking to bolster our options in the central areas in midfield and defence. We've lost Cunningham, Staunton himself, Breen, Roy Keane, Kinsella and Holland since 2002. Solid replacements have not since materialised, apart from Dunne. Staunton should be looking to bolster those areas instead of pointing out the glut of strikers and left-wingers we have.

[dr_peepee]

Eirebhoy... What's O'Dea like? Any use?

[eirebhoy]

Eirebhoy... What's O'Dea like? Any use?
It's hard to say as he hasn't at a lot of defending to do and I haven't seen him live yet. He's a very good passer. Not the fastest player in the world but I wouldn't say he's slow either. Good organisor and even leads the line when Balde is playing. McManus has been in the team constantly under Strachan and he's a bit of an Andy O'Brien or Phil Babb. He'll (McManus) never have the football brain to really be able to lead the line. O'Dea does already. We'll have to see him against Milan but playing with McManus doesn't suit him. Both left footers and McManus is awkward playing as the right centre half.

[livehead1]

26 - 27 is often judged to be a players peak so it's really only Henderson, Ireland and Long that fit the 'give youth a chance' theme tonight.
NO!!! It's not. Around 30 is generally when players reach their peak. There more experienced and stronger. Just think of a few, Bergkamp, Keane, Maldini, Cafu, etc etc. Its never 26, at the earlier its around 28.

[wws]

A
Despite being famous for having briefly held the lead against England when they scored a goal in seven seconds into a World Cup qualifier 14 years ago, San Marino have never held the lead in a Euro qualifier. (What a heady time that must have been. San Marino pinched a draw against Turkey in the same campaign. Their Charlton era.)

great last line

apparently his Dublin v Kerry book is the business, havent read it yet

[Kingdom]

Where did you hear that? Just interested.

I am interested in that too. Did he consult Martin Jol and ask him was Terry Dixon ready for international football. He's a cnut I can't stand him and the mockery he is making of international football.

[Kingdom]

apparently his Dublin v Kerry book is the business,

It is a great book about Dublin and some other team that he prefers not to talk about. It is not a good book about dublin v kerry.

[dr_peepee]

It's hard to say as he hasn't at a lot of defending to do and I haven't seen him live yet. He's a very good passer. Not the fastest player in the world but I wouldn't say he's slow either. Good organisor and even leads the line when Balde is playing. McManus has been in the team constantly under Strachan and he's a bit of an Andy O'Brien or Phil Babb. He'll (McManus) never have the football brain to really be able to lead the line. O'Dea does already. We'll have to see him against Milan but playing with McManus doesn't suit him. Both left footers and McManus is awkward playing as the right centre half.


Cheers

[ken foree]

There's a chance to get past this era of surly non-performance and re-establish ourselves as a team which plays in the spirit of the nation it comes from.


ha! sorry tom, but we already do: we play like england.

[cavan_fan]

ha! sorry tom, but we already do: we play like england.


Lazy joke

Of our first 11 only Carsley, Kilbane and perhaps McGeady are not Irish born

[republicofwhite]

Strachan only says O'Dea isn't ready for international duty because if he got injured(like everybody does on Ireland duty these days..."the curse of Stan") Celtic would be absolutely screwed, as they've very little defensive cover at the moment. O'Dea is seemingly crucial to Strachan's current plans. I'm sure Stantook no for an answer immediately and then skulked off. To me, O'Dea seems ready to start tonight, let alone be just in the squad. Thus, the fact that Stan claims that he couldn't pick him because he "wasn't ready" makes us realise what a farcical joke the Dixon thing was.

[Jerry The Saint]

NO!!! It's not

Just for that I'm going to throw some statistics at you.:p




http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060605/1/74dr.html
Over 28 and out of the Cup
6 June 2006
by FIFAworldcup.com

Those who believe in the power of statistics combined with the value of youth can strike from their list of potential 2006 FIFA World Cup Germany™ winners the following teams: Brazil, France, Italy, Czech Republic, Sweden, Portugal, Serbia and Montenegro, USA, Australia, Croatia, and Trinidad and Tobago.
The reason? In none of the last ten FIFA World Cup competitions have the winners possessed a squad with an average age of more than 28 – the 'weakness' of all those teams listed above.

You have to go all the way back to Brazil's champions of 44 years ago to find a winning squad with an average age of more than 28. At Chile 1962 the Seleção weighed in at an average of 30 years and one month, a staggering 17 months older on average than the next oldest squad.

Since then the average age of the winning squads has been: England (27/01); Brazil (25/02); Germany (27/03); Argentina (26/03); Italy (27/04); Argentina (26/10); Germany (27/09); Brazil (27/11); France (27/04) and Brazil (26/09).

Interestingly the average age of those ten winners comes out at 26/11 which is exactly the average of the Germany squad – and no other team - this time. It is also worth noting that the losing finalists are normally not too far away from the winners in terms of average ages. The last three defeated teams show: Germany (28/02); Brazil (27/11); Italy (28).

In this competition Ghana have the youngest squad at 25/02 while fellow newcomers Trinidad and Tobago are the 'old men' of the party. Their squad registers a creaky 29/05.

The youngest player is England rookie Theo Walcott who will be just 17 years and 85 days old when the tournament begins on 9 June. If he hits the back of the net the Arsenal striker will become the youngest-ever goalscorer at a FIFA World Cup.
The oldest participant is Tunisia goalkeeper Ali Boumnijel who was born three months before England lifted the Jules Rimet trophy in 1966 and stands fifth in the all-time list of oldest players to take part in a FIFA World Cup, following in the footsteps of such greats as Roger Milla (Cameroon), Pat Jennings (Northern Ireland), Peter Shilton (England) and Dino Zoff (Italy).

The overall average age of the players taking part in the Germany showpiece is 27/05. Remarkably that figure has scarcely changed over recent tournaments. Four years ago it was 27/06 as it was in 1998. In 1994 it was just one month less at 27/05.

The Japan squad this time feature the smallest gap between their youngest and oldest players – just eight years and two months. England have the largest age gap (18 years and seven months), perhaps no surprise given the Walcott factor and the presence of David James who turns 36 on 1 August.

I realise that Italy broke the sequence last year by having an older than usual average age but it's still a good bit short of 30.

Picking out 4 players who played at a high-level in their 30s doesn't really convince me of your argument. Individual players will peak at different times and anyway you could put an argument that Maldini was at this "peak" from 92 - 96, Roy Keane was 27 when Man Utd won the treble, etc. We would have to be very lucky to have Keane, Duff, Dunne, John O'Shea et al all hitting the best form of their careers three - five years from now.

[eirebhoy]

Italy had the absolute perfect aged squad. Every single player was at their peak bar Gilardino who still has a few years.

[ken foree]

Lazy joke

Of our first 11 only Carsley, Kilbane and perhaps McGeady are not Irish born

sorry, you totally missed it. nothing to do with actual nationality, more that our 'stars' are overpaid primadonnas sucking on the premiership teat and have thus sold their green, white, and orange souls to becoming something more akin to PR men for giant corporations. perhaps still a lazy one, but not the one you thought...

[jbyrne]

Its a bit ridiculous alright playing John O'Shea at CB , a man who is probalbly about 6th choice CB for his club

he had an excellent game at ctre back against the chech rep.
the constant abuse of oshea on this site is a complete bore. our options in all positions are limited and we have to make best with what we have. what are the other options?? mc shane (on yellow and has a knock), mccarthy (untried and dubious temperment), o'brien (lack of form and match time), o'dea (no experience even at club level)

[eirebhoy]

He had a good game but it was his doziness that awarded the Czechs their goal. No centre half in the world should place the ball for the opposition to take a free, turn his back and stroll off.

[jbyrne]

No centre half in the world should place the ball for the opposition to take a free

thats a bit of an exaggeration to be fair

[eirebhoy]

thats a bit of an exaggeration to be fair
I can't remember 100% but he either placed it or through it to the Czech player to take it. This was on the half way line so he was nowhere near in position. He then strolled back. Even if he ran at full pace he probably wouldn't have got to Koller as they broke so quickly. It was a stupid thing to do and it left McShane one on one with Koller. I wouldn't be a fan of Alex McLeish but he's still a Scottish legend and an ex-central defender. He gave O'Shea stick for it on Sky Sports highlights after it.

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7088/czechfreeze1.jpg

[tricky_colour]

Looks like the 4 year plan is coming to a premature end.:rolleyes:

[A face]

Stan the mans master plan !! :eek:

[cavan_fan]

Afraid to say I dont think a draw gets him sacked

[Réiteoir]

Match Stats:

(San Marino - Ireland)
Goals: SMR 0 - 0 IRL
Total Shots: SMR 0 - 11 IRL
Shots on Target: SMR 0 - 4 IRL
Shots Wide: SMR 0 - 6 IRL
Blocked Shots: SMR 0 - 1 IRL
Fouls Committed: SMR 6 - 4 IRL
Corners: SMR 0 - 5 IRL
Possession; SMR 54% - 46% IRL