Croke park funding [Archive]

paul_oshea

06/02/2007, 11:06 AM

I did a bit of research because of reders posts in relation to tax payers money and here is what I found:
Something that has been lost in the massive propaganda campaign waged against the GAA by the media in general and Independent newspapers in particular, are the facts. The reconstruction of Croke Park cost a total of €260 million. The GAA, an amateur organisation, set about the redevelopment work on their own, with no guarantee of financial help from the government. In fact, the new Cusack Stand was completed and paid for in cash before Charlie McCreevy made the first government donation towards the project. This money was neither requested by the GAA nor expected but was graciously accepted as there were no strings attached. Over the years the Government made further contributions and all together they totalled €110 million. This is the figure that is always used for the mythical "tax payers money" that has been used by certain sections of the media as a stick to beat the GAA with. The truth is that only €19 million of tax payers money was donated to the Croke Park project and this was to ensure that acceptable facilities would be in place at the stadium for the opening and closing ceremonies of the Special Olympics. The remaining €91 million came from lottery funding. If I recall correctly the National Lottery was set up to raise funds for sports infrastructure projects. So the contribution the tax-payer made to Croke Park amounted to less than 7.5% of the total construction costs.

So basically, the 110 mill being bandied about on here only 19 million of it was from taxpayers money.

Now look at the figures for the reconstruction of Landsdowne Road. After the demise of the "Bertie Bowl" the government announced that the new national stadium would instead be a rebuilt Landsdowne Road. Knowing that Croke Park would be the only option for hosting home rugby and soccer internationals in Dublin, John O'Donoghue announced that the new stadium would be of suitable dimensions to hold football, hurling, soccer and rugby matches. This of course was a blatant lie and was used as another point of leverage in opening Croke Park. For example, if Landsdowne Road would host GAA games then why shouldn't Croke Park host professional games. O'Donoghue also announced that the estimated cost for the redevelopment of the new venue would be €345 million. This project will receive €191 million in government aid of which €127 million will be from taxpayers money. So that's 37% of the total cost as opposed to 7.5% for Croke Park which is made up of tax payers money. How come I don't hear any journalists or pundits screaming these figures from their soap boxes. It should be noted however that the €345 million is just an estimate and the total cost is likely to be much more with the extra funds coming from the taxpayer.

Even of the 7.5% of funding, it is a known fact that the money the GAA have paid in VAT back to the government through the running of Croke Park far out weighs any money that the government paid out in the form of grants in the first place.

pete

06/02/2007, 12:18 PM

There was already a thread on this. I will merger when have time to find.

Your figures are more or less correct however your attempt to separate Lottery from Tax Payer money is pointless as allocated from the Government. Makes no difference where it comes from. By that same logic I could ask why does the GAA get Lottery funding & the FAI/IRFU now?

When you compare the sum allocated for Croke Park & Lansdowne Road you will see GAA gets 110m & FAI & IRFU each get 90-95m so everyone on more or less similar sums which is fair. If I allowed for inflation would move the GAA money up a bit but not that much. Lansdowne Road will have more benefit to the economy as involves visits from foreigners into Ireland as opposed to recycling irish money from the "provinces" to Dublin.

paul_oshea

06/02/2007, 12:27 PM

ya i agree with the last sentence above..better to have foreign inward investment.

It does matter becuase everyone was saying its taxpayers money. i.e. yours, dodge, wws, peadar, macy, kingdom and the rest of those on homesoil on this board, which it clearly isnt

Macy

06/02/2007, 1:15 PM

Is it public money? Yes
Is it allocated by the Government? Yes
Is it taxpayers that play the lotto? Yes
Was it allocated to Croke Park? Yes
Without the public money would it have been possible? Maybe, but...
Without the public money would the GAA be crippled with debt? Yes
Was the money given at the expense of other sporting organisations? Yes
How much was given to the FAI for eircom park? Zero
How much was given to the IRFU for Newlands Cross? Zero
Could they be expected to develop new stadiums without Government investment similar to what Croke Park rec'd? No

I hate being proved so comprehensibly wrong.

Kingdom

06/02/2007, 1:22 PM

Now Paul hang on a second. Its not just about Croke Park really is it? Its about acres and acres of land across the country, that was effectively given to GAA clubs after partition. If there was a level playing field from the start then no soccer supporter in the country could have any reason to be bitter towards the GAA, but it wasn't and they should be. You know yourself Paul that I love the GAA as much as football but people have to see the wood from the trees. ******ology such as banning soccer from secondary schools is why so many people hate the GAA and can you blame them.
As you say the figures might not add up to Hundreds of millions of tax payers money, but I would bet that if you were to take a look at grants given to clubs over the past ten years there would be an unbelieveable bias towards GAA clubs the width and breadth of the country over soccer clubs. It will be another two generations before this type of nonsense levels off I'd reckon.
The GAA should be commended on Croker, tis a fine stadium, but the nonsense that they built it on their own is a load of me ballax.

Kingdom

06/02/2007, 1:30 PM

How much was given to the FAI for eircom park? Zero

Could they be expected to develop new stadiums without Government investment similar to what Croke Park rec'd? No

I hate being proved so comprehensibly wrong.

I'm not trying to prove someone so comprehensibly wrong, but it is the above points that I grate on.

Without knowing the ins and outs of Bernard O'Byrne's business dealings (it seemed to me that he was sacked on a technicality), we should be playing in Eircom Park, our own stadium. My recollection of it was that there wasn't great support for it within the FAI and the fact that the cnut Ahern was so against it (I mean ffs Floodlights affecting Baldonnell!:rolleyes: ) probably was the nail in the coffin. We should have somewhere to call ourt own.

paul_oshea

06/02/2007, 1:37 PM

macy, that 7.5 % quickly becomes less than 3% if you factor out vat and income tax payed back to the govt, so how you are saying they would be in debt, is more than ridiculous. Secondly, if i buy lots of pints of heineken should I have a say in how its made? Eh no, I dont think so. same goes with the lotto. i dont really know what point has any relevance bar this one maybe.
: Is it allocated by the Government? Yes

The salaries of some of the FAI officials were paid by the Irish Sports Council at one stage.

Kingdom, I know what you are saying. I agree with ye, it was just someone said it was completely tax payers money that made up that 110 million. Its kinda like saying if 10,000 american tourists come into ireland and play the lotto, they should be allowed use it for baseball based on what macy was saying.

Macy

06/02/2007, 1:39 PM

eircom park was financial suicide without Government support. O'Byrne was right that Ahern couldn't be trusted, but at the time there was no choice to be made. Zero funding for eircom Park, or use of a national stadium with a sweet deal on advance ticket sales. There was no choice to be made. The FAI couldn't afford it on their own, and the Government were adamant there would be no support for it and were going to create issues around Baldonnell whilst nudging those against O'Byrne to make a power play by dangling grant money in front of their eyes to sign up for Abbotstown.

Macy

06/02/2007, 1:42 PM

macy, that 7.5 % quickly becomes less than 3% if you factor out vat and income tax payed back to the govt.
So you're still claiming that Grants aren't public money?

The salaries of some of the FAI officials were paid by the Irish Sports Council at one stage.
Who, how much, and was it only the FAI that received such money?

paul_oshea

06/02/2007, 1:45 PM

Macy, you have a choice to play the lotto, you dont have a choice to pay tax.

kingdom someone once made this point to me "of course we [gaa] were in the fortunate position of not having to sack our last three CEOs for dipping into the kitty.....did the guys who pushed the opening up of our grounds do it for altruisitic reasons or perhaps was there an element of self promotion involved ??. "

Dodge

06/02/2007, 1:51 PM

Macy, you have a choice to play the lotto, you dont have a choice to pay tax.
But the government chooses where the money goes, not those who play...

(oh and BTW it wasn't set up to fund sports (as you said in original posts) its supposed to support aarts and other charities too

Macy

06/02/2007, 1:53 PM

Macy, you have a choice to play the lotto, you dont have a choice to pay tax.
I repeat, is it public money? I have choice whether to play the lotto I don't have a choice where the money goes - elected politicians allocate public money. Some people do decide not to pay tax in this state, they move abroad.

paul_oshea

06/02/2007, 3:07 PM

last time I looked there was no development in either eircom park or newlands cross so why would either organisation get funding for something which they failed to start.......

Also on a point being a tax payer is not a pre-requisisteto buying a lotto ticket so it's disingenious to say its tax payers money. It came from lotto funding not from income taxation revenue

I don't believe that separating tax payers money from lottery money is pointless either. One of the main reasons the National Lottery was set up to fund the building of sports facilities throughout the country. Club grounds across the nation, in all codes, have benefited enormously from this initiative. Croke Park received €91 million of its €110 million from this source, the almost negligible remainder coming from the tax-payer. Lansdowne will receive €64 million from the National Lottery to go with at least a whopping €127 million from the tax-payer. People are making the claim that "our money" was used to build Croke Park, but it wasn't, it is mostly the GAA's own funds allied with money we lost by gambling on the Lotto. When you buy a ticket you don't do so with the understanding that the money goes to a soccer club, a GAA club or a baton twirling club.

The GAA had to make VAT and income tax payments to the government. In the near future, if not already, the GAA will have paid the government more than the €110 million received. The government made an investment and have received a return on that investment.

WeAreRovers

06/02/2007, 3:19 PM

Something that has been lost in the massive propaganda campaign waged against the GAA by the media in general and Independent newspapers in particular, are the facts.

:rolleyes:

From yesterday's Independent - "And how an amateur sports body, charged with protecting the indigenous culture of a small island, has evolved into a unique Irish success story.

The GAA has acquired such self-assurance that now it can throw its doors open to the competing, and professional, codes of soccer and rugby - which is why the floodlights were installed in the first place. But it was nonetheless fitting, and a little bit special, that the first clash under their soft glow should be of a Gaelic character."

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1770631&issue_id=15222

That's your anti-GAA propoganda for you. The rest of your post is financial semantics trying to justify taxpayers money funding the GAA.

KOH

paul_oshea

06/02/2007, 3:35 PM

Was the money given at the expense of other sporting organisations? Yes
No it wasn't. Croke Park was already under development. When the GAA received the first Lotto grant the Cusack Stand was already built and paid for. The organisation had a long term plan with funds to be secured from ticket plans and loans to complete the remainder of the stadium. The governments investment just speeded up the process.

How much was given to the FAI for eircom park? Zero
Eircom Park was scuppered internally by the FAI. Bernard Byrne, correct me if that's not his name, came up with a potentially disastrous plan to build a home for Irish Soccer. It was based on holding 60 sell out events in the stadium per year. This was also at a time when Croke Park was being rebuilt and Bertie had put forward proposals for a national stadium in Abbotstown. A power struggle in the FAI ensued, Byrne was removed from office, Bertie paid the FAI a nice sweetener to run with the Bertie Bowl and Eircom Park never came into existence. Why would they receive money to build Eircom Park when a single sod was never turned.

How much was given to the IRFU for Newlands Cross? Zero
The IRFU would never move to Newlands Cross. If they did build a new stadium at the site it could be an 80,000 seater, however, fans don't want to move from South Dublin and the tradition and history associated with the venue. Again, why would an organisation receive money for a project that was never going to go ahead.

Could they be expected to develop new stadiums without Government investment similar to what Croke Park rec'd? No
The GAA never made any allowances for the receipt of money from the government. They had already started a realistic and manageable project before the government decided to get involved. The FAI's plan was pie in the sky stuff. The IRFU were happy to continue with a venue from the Victorian facilities. Both are only able to commence building a stadium when they have received assurances that the government will foot at least 55% of the bill.

The lotto funding is grants. grants are public money.
Every sports organisation in the country gets lotto grants. The lottery is there to generate funds for sports and community projects.

The rest of your post is financial semantics trying to justify taxpayers money funding the GAA.

what are you on about? As usual you make a non-sensical post, utter tripe.

the gaa were placed in the situation where if they maintained their original decision to keep the stadium for GAA sports only it would have been a massive PR disaster. Imagine what the mood in the country would be like if Ireland had to play France in Old Trafford or Anfield. The Evening Herald and Irish Independent would carry photographs of the Irish team training in an English venue juxtaposed with an image of an empty Croke Park. Many GAA members felt that maintaining the status quo would have been in the organisations best interest but were held to ransom mainly because they accepted "tax payers money".

WeAreRovers

06/02/2007, 4:05 PM

what are you on about? As usual you make a non-sensical post, utter tripe

Been taking put-down lessons from dcfcsteve? Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it non-sensical (sic).

Simplified version - The media in this country are massively biased towards the GAA. The government, taxpayer, lotto-player etc paid for Croke Park, no matter what way GAA apologists dress it up.

KOH

G-Man

06/02/2007, 4:17 PM

pete

06/02/2007, 5:45 PM

They got 42% of it from grants/lotto money. That hardly equates to being paid for. Lansdowne is getting 55% of its stadium paid for.

Lansdowne is being shared between 2 sports organisations so its 28% each.

Macy

07/02/2007, 7:25 AM

Eircom Park was scuppered internally by the FAI. Bernard Byrne, correct me if that's not his name, came up with a potentially disastrous plan to build a home for Irish Soccer. It was based on holding 60 sell out events in the stadium per year. This was also at a time when Croke Park was being rebuilt and Bertie had put forward proposals for a national stadium in Abbotstown. A power struggle in the FAI ensued, Byrne was removed from office, Bertie paid the FAI a nice sweetener to run with the Bertie Bowl and Eircom Park never came into existence. Why would they receive money to build Eircom Park when a single sod was never turned.
Eircom Park was scuppered by the Government refusing to allocate any funds. It was that Government decision that lead to O'Byrne trying to justify it through the other events, advance sales etc, while at the same time the Government were offering bribes to go into Abbotstown. This created the power struggle. Why would the FAI turn a sod when the Government said they wouldn't allocate any funding, which made the project financially unviable (just as Croke Park would've been financially unviable without Government support and allocation of funds)

I'm pleased you finally accept that the GAA recieved �110 million of public money for the redevelopment of Croke Park - a figure that would be more in todays terms, and would've gone a lot further then given the construction inflation in the last few years.

Why are you even on a football forum?

G-Man

07/02/2007, 7:52 AM

Lansdowne is being shared between 2 sports organisations so its 28% each.

Why is only half of the stadium being built? Its one stadium, its getting 55% funded. If you want to go down that road then they are getting 28% of 50%, still equates to 55% funding.

Why do people have such a gripe over the funding the GAA got? Throwing out outragious and false figures of tax money and saying that they paid for the stadium. The government funds a lot of things in the country. There's a primary school being built beside me, most of it government funded by tax. Should I go in and say I can use their facilities coz I paid tax?

Fact is that the GAA handled their redevelopment of their stadium better than IRFU or FAI. The stadium never closed while development took place and will work out considerably cheaper than the Lansdowne redevelopment (taking into account inflation) even tho Croke Park will also be considerably larger.

Dodge

07/02/2007, 8:14 AM

Why do people have such a gripe over the funding the GAA got? Throwing out outragious and false figures of tax money and saying that they paid for the stadium. The government funds a lot of things in the country. There's a primary school being built beside me, most of it government funded by tax. Should I go in and say I can use their facilities coz I paid tax?
I guarentee you that school would have to allow your child enroll though (subject to usual criteria etc). Same thing applies

Fact is that the GAA handled their redevelopment of their stadium better than IRFU or FAI
Nobody has ever denied this, or even attempted to bring it up

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 8:38 AM

Been taking put-down lessons from dcfcsteve? Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it non-sensical (sic).

Simplified version - The media in this country are massively biased towards the GAA. The government, taxpayer, lotto-player etc paid for Croke Park, no matter what way GAA apologists dress it up.

KOH

Again:
I was trying to make the point that the GAA was the victim of a massive spin and propaganda campaign that forced the GAA to open the stadium to other sports. Members of the GAA had varying reasons to keep the stadium closed. These are all well known so there is no need to go into them here. However, they were placed in the situation where if they maintained their original decision to keep the stadium for GAA sports only it would have been a massive PR disaster. Imagine what the mood in the country would be like if Ireland had to play France in Old Trafford or Anfield. The Evening Herald and Irish Independent would carry photographs of the Irish team training in an English venue juxtaposed with an image of an empty Croke Park. Many GAA members felt that maintaining the status quo would have been in the organisations best interest but were held to ransom mainly because they accepted "tax payers money".

Eircom Park was scuppered by the Government refusing to allocate any funds. It was that Government decision that lead to O'Byrne trying to justify it through the other events, advance sales etc, while at the same time the Government were offering bribes to go into Abbotstown. This created the power struggle. Why would the FAI turn a sod when the Government said they wouldn't allocate any funding, which made the project financially unviable (just as Croke Park would've been financially unviable without Government support and allocation of funds)

the gaa [for all its faults] decided to cost and build it on their own resources , detailed revenue and costings produced then showed the stadium would have been paid for by 2020 from the gaa's own resources , were they then to refuse a [belated] offering of [] money ?. bottom line was bertie wanted a photo opportunity and gaa reduced their under control debt ahead of schedule. The FAI looked for money straight away, expecting it, the GAA had it all costed and estimated, it was then lotto money was offered. No wonder eircom park didnt get anywhere, if they were solely dependent on the government.

Lottery funding is given to the best applications( with proper plans/ matched funding etc) - thats not the GAAs fault that the FAI couldn't plan a **** up in a brewery.

Macy, I haven't admitted anything. Why am I on a football forum, in this country are you only allowed one or the other? Before I left Ireland it was fine to do so, maybe since you have moved over and I have gone that has changed.

Dodge

07/02/2007, 8:53 AM

Again:
I was trying to make the point that the GAA was the victim of a massive spin and propaganda campaign that forced the GAA to open the stadium to other sports.
There were many GAA writers who wrote about not letting rugby and football be played there. Others disagreed. How is it spin if people express an opinion

However, they were placed in the situation where if they maintained their original decision to keep the stadium for GAA sports only it would have been a massive PR disaster.
Firstly they allowed American Football to be played there before. hardly a gaelic sport, secondly they placed themselves in that position

Imagine what the mood in the country would be like if Ireland had to play France in Old Trafford or Anfield. The Evening Herald and Irish Independent would carry photographs of the Irish team training in an English venue juxtaposed with an image of an empty Croke Park.
What pointing are you making here? Are you saying the "country" would be wrong to have this "mood", or that it was only caused by those newspapers and that the people didn't really feel angry about their national teams playing in a foreign country

Many GAA members felt that maintaining the status quo would have been in the organisations best interest but were held to ransom mainly because they accepted "tax payers money"And they voted to let in football and rugby and look at the PR boost they're getting. So those against the vote have been proved wrong. UNless they had more sinister reasons...

Lottery funding is given to the best applications( with proper plans/ matched funding etc) - thats not the GAAs fault that the FAI couldn't plan a **** up in a brewery.
Nobody denied that. What some have a problem with is that the FAI and IRFU were going ahead with a stadium but were blackmailed out of it by the Govt, the same Govt that gave 110mill to the GAA. Personally I have no problem with the GAA getting that much, however much I despise them

Why am I on a football forum, in this country are you only allowed one or the other? Before I left Ireland it was fine to do so, maybe since you have moved over and I have gone that has changed.You can do what you like, and so can macy. Stop playing the victim

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 8:57 AM

dodge, he asked me a stupid question. I gave him a stupid answer.

G-Man

07/02/2007, 9:14 AM

I guarentee you that school would have to allow your child enroll though (subject to usual criteria etc). Same thing applies

Nobody has ever denied this, or even attempted to bring it up

I was only using a school as an example that a lot of places get funding, I wasnt specifically wanting to start a discussion on schools!! Could have used something else, that was the first thing I thought of!

And why I made the point about the handling of the relevent developments was because I'm sick of hearing people moaning about Croke Park and how it should have opened up sooner and how they got so much money and whatever.

The stadium is opened up, and for the good of the nation IMO. Why does there still have to be disagreements over it. I read in that rag The Star last week about the rugby teams first training in the ground. half page article under the big headline 'Why the Secrecy?'. The article went on to give out about the GAA and why they didnt announce the rugby team were training. I know its a cr@p paper and I'd never heard of the writer before, but it was the greatest load of sh!te I'd ever seen. And was just GAA bashing.

I do think the GAA are coming out with a slightly favorable outlook for opening up, but they are still getting bad press and comments, even here, despite them opening up.

Dodge

07/02/2007, 9:29 AM

I think the article was written as the FAI requested the football team be allowed time ti train on Croke Park in advance of their game there and were refused. The IRFU must have made a similar plea and were allowed. No big deal to me

You must remember though that the artiicle was written by one journalist. There are plenty of anti-football writing GAA articles so its hardly ine way traffic. Some here enjoy both sports and good luck to them. Others have legitimate grievances with the GAA. I've yet to hear a compelling arguement agsint those grievances and its been done to death here and elsewhere

pete

07/02/2007, 9:36 AM

Why do people have such a gripe over the funding the GAA got?

Earth to G-Man - this thread was started by a GAA supporter!!! :rolleyes:

Croker Park = 113m (3m for the recent floodlights)
FAI = 90m approx
IRFU = 90m approx

Like i said as long as the FAI & IRFU get similar (see above) amounts to the GAA for their stadiums I don't see any problem. The problem people have is when the GAA supporters claim they somehow have recent almost no government funding.

The argument over percentage funding of stadiums is pointless. Sure the government could 100% fund a National indoor stadium for 50m shared amoung 50 sports but that would be just 1m per sport. Somehow GAA types would try to convince these other sports getting more funding. :eek:

p.s. I am sick of closet GAA supporters hiding in the foot.ie long grass. If would need tell people how great the GAA maybe the Hoganstand would be more appropriate.

G-Man

07/02/2007, 9:46 AM

Earth to G-Man - this thread was started by a GAA supporter!!! :rolleyes:

Croker Park = 113m (3m for the recent floodlights)
FAI = 90m approx
IRFU = 90m approx

Like i said as long as the FAI & IRFU get similar (see above) amounts to the GAA for their stadiums I don't see any problem. The problem people have is when the GAA supporters claim they somehow have recent almost no government funding.

The argument over percentage funding of stadiums is pointless. Sure the government could 100% fund a National indoor stadium for 50m shared amoung 50 sports but that would be just 1m per sport. Somehow GAA types would try to convince these other sports getting more funding. :eek:

p.s. I am sick of closet GAA supporters hiding in the foot.ie long grass. If would need tell people how great the GAA maybe the Hoganstand would be more appropriate.

Well not wanting to make assumptions on his part, but I'm sure he was sick of all the moaning done about the funding the GAA got. I never made a point of individual funding to sports, all I made a point to was the funding of a stadium. The problem GAA supporters have to the issue of funding is when people say ah sure they got that paid for them, it was all tax money, sure we're entitled to use it.

And to your last point, can people not follow 2 sports. Or do we need to set up a website called www.ilikegaaandsocer.ie.:mad:

Dodge

07/02/2007, 9:48 AM

Well not wanting to make assumptions on his part, but I'm sure he was sick of all the moaning done about the funding the GAA got.
No, he tried to say they didn' get 110 million worth of government grants. Which has been proven wrong.

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 9:50 AM

LOL, quality g-man. sounds like a great website name :D

Macy

07/02/2007, 9:50 AM

The FAI looked for money straight away, expecting it, the GAA had it all costed and estimated, it was then lotto money was offered. No wonder eircom park didnt get anywhere, if they were solely dependent on the government.
The FAI didn't want it totally funded, they wanted Government support, which would've involved some grant money. The figures were tight without some element of Government input, such as the GAA recieved it, but Bertie took that option away pretty much at the same time as he was giving more public money to the GAA. Add this in to the riches he promised if the FAI dropped eircom park in favour of Abbotstown and the FAI had no choice but to drop their plans.

The GAA were struggling with Croke Park before the input of the money that Bertie paid them to keep the doors closed to world games. Before that input the GAA were under financial pressure to open up Croke Park to Football and Rugby as Croke Park wasn't meeting it's projected income streams (it's not only FAI heads that massage figures to get support for projects). Even GAA games were running at a loss, let alone all the none sporting elements. The public money bailed the GAA out.

The question about what you're doing here is apt when you're on a pro GAA crusade on football forum. If you feel this strongly you should be on a GAA site with other such "enlightened" people, if not I can only assume you're posting this stuff as a wind up, in which case the mods should be looking at your access.

G-Man

07/02/2007, 9:53 AM

No, he tried to say they didn' get 110 million worth of government grants. Which has been proven wrong.

no, he tried say they got �19m in tax money, �91m in lotto money. I dont htink anyone has denied they got �110m in funding.

I. Over the years the Government made further contributions and all together they totalled �110 million.

The truth is that only �19 million of tax payers money was donated to the Croke Park project and this was to ensure that acceptable facilities would be in place at the stadium for the opening and closing ceremonies of the Special Olympics. The remaining �91 million came from lottery funding.

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 9:53 AM

No, he tried to say they didn' get 110 million worth of government grants. Which has been proven wrong.

No, I didnt, I said, because of hearing it over and over again here, TAX money, it was not tax money, as I proved. That was what I started with. Either way, read my whole threads again, and you will see exactly how much "tax" money the gaa got, how much was self-funded, how much they "actually" needed. I don't know whether its my communication skills, and it could well be, but you and wws have an extremely difficult time understanding what I write. However cheifo was able to read between the lines and get the point I was making on the BB thread, so I am not so sure.....

The question about what you're doing here is apt when you're on a pro GAA crusade on football forum. If you feel this strongly you should be on a GAA site with other such "enlightened" people, if not I can only assume you're posting this stuff as a wind up, in which case the mods should be looking at your access.

What you are trying to prompt or suggest mods to ban me, because I say something you don't like or agree with. get real ffs.

Dodge

07/02/2007, 9:57 AM

back to those semantics are we?

geysir

07/02/2007, 10:15 AM

Any LOI fan from the 50's & 60's will tell you the league was healthy enough in comparison to the GAA despite the ban and whatever dark years of sporting bigotry.
There's lots of reasons why soccer hasn't developed infrastructure

It appears that any sporting club can get funding from the Sports Capital Programme.
http://193.178.1.186/grants_funding/default.htm
The GAA clubs get funding related to development projects, so do rugby clubs so do lawn tennis, rowing, boxing, pitch and putt and even pipe band clubs.
Is it really the huge popular bias towards the GAA in this country the reason why soccer clubs don't get comparative funding?

Macy

07/02/2007, 10:30 AM

No, I didnt, I said, because of hearing it over and over again here, TAX money, it was not tax money, as I proved.
Public money distributed on behalf of the tax payer.

What you are trying to prompt or suggest mods to ban me, because I say something you don't like or agree with. get real ffs.
No, because I think you're a wum.

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 10:44 AM

deleted

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 10:44 AM

Public money distributed on behalf of the tax payer.

On behalf? :eek:
what about tourists that have come and played, and come and won the lotto. are they tax payers too? :rolleyes:

Macy

07/02/2007, 10:46 AM

On behalf? :eek:
what about tourists that have come and played, and come and won the lotto. are they tax payers too? :rolleyes:
Okay, the electorate then. Fairly clear it's only an arguement over the meaning of words, not the actual issue of funding at this stage.

What about the extremely small proportion of tourists that play the lotto?

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 10:56 AM

What about the extremely small proportion of tourists that play the lotto?

And have won and unclaimed....thats quite a substantial sum

Okay, the electorate then

are those tourists ( or potentially short term workers ) able to vote now too?

osarusan

07/02/2007, 11:03 AM

The question about what you're doing here is apt when you're on a pro GAA crusade on football forum. If you feel this strongly you should be on a GAA site with other such "enlightened" people, if not I can only assume you're posting this stuff as a wind up, in which case the mods should be looking at your access.

This is ridiculous.

If he is on a "pro GAA crusade", doesnt it make more sense to do it where people disagree with him than where they agree with him.

Or he is a WUM, and shouldnt be here, the mods should take care if it.

Nonsense.

Macy

07/02/2007, 11:10 AM

And have won and unclaimed....thats quite a substantial sum
What has who played the lotto have to do with who distributes the money? It is distributed on behalf of the electorate by the Government, all of whom are taxpayers either directly or indirectly.

paul_oshea

07/02/2007, 12:16 PM

National Lottery funding is not public money, if it were the case sure we could use some of it to buy out the M50 toll and all the other tolls around the country. Maybe it can even help out our health system.
National Lottery funding is to promote and help, charitys, sporting organisations and voluntary organisations. It has nothing to do with the government and the government coffers. You apply to the national lottery on the basis of your plans, future plans and the amount of funding you have already secured from other sources.

You are moving the goalposts Macy with your last post. I shall leave it with the above.

Dodge

07/02/2007, 12:30 PM

You're either naive or stupid Paul, if you don't believe the government decides where lottery money goes.

http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/publications/release.asp?ID=1834

Sports Capital Programme

Minister O'Donoghue said: "The foundation for the much-improved sporting infrastructure of the country under this Government has been the National Lottery-funded Sports Capital Programme. The Programme has helped provide hundreds of new pitches, changing rooms, sports halls and much needed equipment to sports clubs throughout Ireland. Nowhere has Government impacted more on the lives of people in every corner of Ireland than through funding to sports clubs and groups under the Sports Capital Programme.

"I am delighted that the National Development Plan will ensure the continuation of the Programme and the provision of sport and recreational facilities on a nationwide basis. Almost €420m will be allocated over the period of the Plan once again highlighting this Government's commitment to ensuring that people the length and breadth of the country will have access to top-of-the-range sporting facilities.

pete

07/02/2007, 12:41 PM

Maybe it can even help out our health system.
National Lottery funding is to promote and help, charitys, sporting organisations and voluntary organisations....

The lottery does fund the health system!!! :rolleyes:
Lottery funds are allocated by the government so it all goes into the same pool.

GAA website (http://www.hoganstand.com/general/ground/articles/032803.htm)

Sensationally, it was announced at this year's annual congress on Friday April 6th that the GAA would receive �60,000,000 from the Government towards the redevelopment over the next three years.

Department of Sport (http://www.arts-sport-tourism.gov.ie/publications/release.asp?ID=659)

John O'Donoghue TD, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, today (Thursday 30th September, 2004) announced that the Government has agreed to provide a further and final grant of €40 million to the GAA over the next two years towards the cost of the redevelopment of Croke Park. €20 million will be paid this year with a further €20 million being paid in 2005. This additional grant will bring the level of Exchequer contribution to €110 million towards the €265 million cost of the whole project.

This does not include the 3-3.5m funding for the recent floodlights.

At the beginning of this year, the Government agreed to support the redevelopment of Lansdowne Stadium, a project which is being undertaken as a joint venture by the IRFU and FAI. Funding of €191 million will be provided by the Exchequer towards this €292 million project and the new Stadium will meet the national and international requirements of rugby and soccer.

The government has also said they will not pay for cost over runs. 191m = 95.5m for each sports body. I believe the government will retain a stake in the stadium too.

Moderator Warning:
- Keep this on topic, no discussion on "the ban" or other issues
- If you quote figures back them up with links otherwise they will be removed.