Pete Mahon to Shels?

[Poor Student]

Forget about Shels for a minute, the impact this could have on our club is very bad. All our players are on short term contracts and we saw how Doolan raided UCD for a lot of players. Have the current senior players who are out of contract even had theirs renewed? Mahon has rebuilt this club and its youth scouting network following Doolan destroying it, he could take key personnel like Wallace with him and we'd have to do it all over again. Potential youth targets and current youth players could also be poached. I know you could argue Shels are broke, have no resources etc. but then what the hell is tempting him to go there?

[BohsPartisan]

Yeah but don't they have better prospects of getting paid at UCD?
Has Mahon definitely gone?

[Schumi]

Has Mahon definitely gone?I only heard a snippet on the radio, was only half listening so didn't really catch it. Something like he'd been linked.

[Poor Student]

Yeah but don't they have better prospects of getting paid at UCD?
Has Mahon definitely gone?

I'd say that too, BP, but I wonder how they're even tempting Mahon (if stories are true). No, he hasn't gone but it's being said that he or Shels will be talking to the UCD board.

[pineapple stu]

Here's the snippet from the Irish Times -



UCD manager Pete Mahon, looks set to be offered the chance to succeed Pat Fenlon at Shelbourne today after chairman Ollie Byrne sounded him out about taking the post yesterday.

Byrne was due to put Mahon's name to a meeting of the Shelbourne board last night. Despite the strength of the objections that are rumoured to have greeted his earlier suggestion that Roddy Collins be appointed it seems unlikely any major obstacles will arise around Tolka Park to proceeding with the job offer.

It remains to be seen, however, whether the UCD directors, with whom Mahon has a good relationship, will seek to persuade the former St Francis and Bohemians boss that he would be better off staying at Belfield Park where the team has performed solidly under his stewardship and a number of very promising youngsters have been brought through.

"At this stage there's nothing definite to say," remarked Mahon last night. "I spoke with Ollie today . . . about all of the issues involved. I told the directors here what had happened and the intention is to just talk to everyone again tomorrow when everything should be a bit clearer."

The prospect of taking over a side due to play in Champions League qualifiers would obviously be an attractive one for Mahon although the desirability of the Shelbourne post is very much dependent upon Byrne's ability to resolve the financial difficulties that have beset the club.

Honestly can't understand why he'd move. Leave a club on the up (four seasons under Pete have all been a big improvement on each other), who are paying him and who are building his reputation as a decent manager for one who are on a dramatic slide, who have a track record of not paying staff and who could well destroy his reputation as Shels appear set for a serious struggle against relegation next year. Touch wood it's just him trying to get a pay rise at UCD.

Find it hilarious on the Shels forum that Mr Higgins thinks Shels are a better club than us! :p


If he does leave though, who's the next manager? Tony Mac? Maccer?!

[Poor Student]

I'm assuming he operates on a a year to year contract and we'd be due no compensation?

Pete may feel that he's taken UCD as far as he can and he would look forward to a new challenge. I think he can take us further and that we've made tremendous progress under him. I don't think he'll be able to take Shels any further than he could take us with Derry, Drogheda and Bohs all heading streets ahead of Shels. Maybe Ollie has informed him of some new financing deal but you'd not be inclined to trust him given all that's gone on over the years. Maybe Pete feels he has to right some wrongs at a big Dublin club after his time at Bohs? I don't really know but I hope he stays. Like many players who left this club he should look at the grass is greener syndrome.

If Pete does go I think the club has to be very wise in replacing him. We'd need someone with a good knowledge of underage football like Pete and I don't think Tony Mac has that. There's also no point in making one of our best players a manager when he still (hopefully) has years of playing service to give.

[higgins]

Seems I wouldn't be the only person out there to think we are a better club! Pete Mahon is only waiting on Ollie to secure money and he will be on his way.

Your key to keeping Mahon is that Ollie doesn't find money to replace the downpayments from the builders.

Shels may be out of cash but if they get round the current crisis and the season starts and europe comes along. Pete Mahon will have a decent budget there. Nowhere near the likes of Pat Fenlons but I'd imagine more than UCD's.

Is the UCD playing budget public knowledge by the way ?

[BohsPartisan]

You could follow your tried and tested route of hiring failed Bohs managers.
Step up tho the plate, Mr. Gareth Farrelly!

[pineapple stu]

I'm assuming he operate on a a year to year contract and we'd be due no compensation?
Probably.


Pete may feel that he's taken UCD as far as he can and he would look forward to a new challenge.
Possibly, but Shels isn't the place to go to move forward.

I would be surprised if UCD - with Pete Mahon as manager - finished behind Shels - with all their players gone and replaced to the best of their abilities next season. Shels are looking at at best a season of mid-table mediocrity, and at worst relegation. Their crowds are going to drop off, possibly to below 1000. They still have massive debts, including a regular Revenue repayment which is going to seriously hinder their budget. Basically, if their budget next year is significantly larger than ours, they're trading recklessly.

So moving from UCD to Shels is basically moving from one level to the same level, only he probably won't get paid.

[pineapple stu]

Pete Mahon is only waiting on Ollie to secure money and he will be on his way.
You've been talking to Pete, I take it?


Your key to keeping Mahon is that Ollie doesn't find money to replace the downpayments from the builders.
That's grand; we're safe so.


Shels may be out of cash but if they get round the current crisis and the season starts and europe comes along.
You still think all your problems are because you've hit a little cash flow in the close season, and that once 1000 people start paying in every other week, you'll be grand?


Is the UCD playing budget public knowledge by the way ?
Quarter of a mill or so. Or maybe that was the First Division level.

[Poor Student]

Possibly, but Shels isn't the place to go to move forward.

I would be surprised if UCD - with Pete Mahon as manager - finished behind Shels - with all their players gone and replaced to the best of their abilities next season. Shels are looking at at best a season of mid-table mediocrity, and at worst relegation. Their crowds are going to drop off, possibly to below 1000. They still have massive debts, including a regular Revenue repayment which is going to seriously hinder their budget. Basically, if their budget next year is significantly larger than ours, they're trading recklessly.

So moving from UCD to Shels is basically moving from one level to the same level, only he probably won't get paid.

They're all the same things I'd be inclined to think yet here we are with strong suggestions that Mahon is on his way. I don't particularly care if he moves and it all crumbles down around him, I'm infinitely more worried about the impact Mahon's departure could have on this club.

Going by Higgins posts (which I don't doubt) then it's hinging on whether Ollie gets extra funding. I'm not pleased at this situation as we don't want this dragging out. We need to know one way or another whether Pete is staying so we can get on with the plans for the upcoming season.

[higgins]

I don't think once the season starts we can continue on from where we left off.

Whats happened is the 'investment/builders' money has stopped. Why shels went on thinking the well would never dry up was stupid. I shouldn't need to add in that I'm delighted to see that it has but with some posters around here you'd believe I was the one making the decisions at Shels. I'm not! and I have said from Day 1 it was wrong to touch that money.

Anyway, the rug was pulled from under Ollie at the worst possible time. The start of the Close Season, this was done on purpose to leave Ollie with little opyion but to take the new terms of the 'investment' or see Shels crumble.

If it's for selfish reasons or for the love of Shels, I'll let you lot decide but Ollie did not take the new terms.

So today we have very little money coming in and a squad (well half a squad :) ) to pay for. Tax repayments and whatever else comes through the letterbox.

If Ollie finds money to cover them expenses and the season starts, then he is back in the game. If he finds the money and pays the bills the FAI can not take europe away and that's a few hundred thousand straight away. Setanta Cup too..

If your budget is only 250K a season your nuts if you thinks shels won't have a bigger one. Thats only 5K a week ?? You wouldn't put a LSL team out for that.

Read what Pete said today. It's code for I'm waiting on Ollie to find the lolly. Will he find it ?

Shels went on a spending spree the past two or three seasons but if you cast your mind back to 2004 and before, Shels were better than UCD then and didn't have the Tolka sale fund to dip into. I'd be very surprised if UCD finish ahead of Shels even with feck all of a pre season for the new manager.

[Poor Student]

Read what Pete said today. It's code for I'm waiting on Ollie to find the lolly. Will he find it ?

You tell me. You're the man in the know. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would invest in Shels with Ollie at the helm even with promises of reduced expenditure. Sure even if he kept that promise it would mean no return on investment as you won't be likely to achieve much in the future.


Shels went on a spending spree the past two or three seasons but if you cast your mind back to 2004 and before, Shels were better than UCD then and didn't have the Tolka sale fund to dip into. I'd be very surprised if UCD finish ahead of Shels even with feck all of a pre season for the new manager.

Your spending spree has damaged you so badly you won't even be able to return to pre-2004 type spending. If everyone but Baker and Moore goes you'll have a monumental short term building project on your hands. How do you build a first team and a squad from scratch also taking into account that most good signings have been snapped up. It's a bigger task than you seem to be admitting.

[Bald Student]

If your budget is only 250K a season your nuts if you thinks shels won't have a bigger one. Thats only 5K a week ?? You wouldn't put a LSL team out for that.
We field 2 LSL teams on a lot less than that.

On the main point, if Pete wants to go, that's his choice.

The players should all be signed up for next season so unless there's been some funny business going on (which I wouldn't expect from Pete) Shels will have to pay to take anyone.

[higgins]

I don't think it will be easy to build a team but it's Shelbourne and there will be Champions League. You'd don't seem to see any draw in the name Shelbourne but I'm sure there are many players who would still sign for Shels even after what has happened.

We won't have the team we had last season but the budget I feel will be higher than that at UCD and I still think we will make more money in the 2008 season than what UCD will.

The figures for the CL will be more than your home gates bring in all season.

If Ollie gets money he pays the players and tax, we assure ourselves of CL football and Mahon comes in.

Again, do you think Ollie will get the money?
If he could get a fee for Sean dillon !!! :eek:

[Student Mullet]

If Ollie gets money he pays the players and tax, we assure ourselves of CL football and Mahon comes in.That's how I see it too. Whatever your budget, I don't think you'll be above mid table next season but if you keep your club together and avoid relegation you'll be in a very good position to rebuild your club from.

[pineapple stu]

You'd don't seem to see any draw in the name Shelbourne but I'm sure there are many players who would still sign for Shels even after what has happened.
I seriously doubt it. No club in Ireland - bar perhaps Rovers, and even that's on the wane as Milltown becomes a more and more distant memory - has the kind of aura about it that would make players want to play for them regardless of any financial troubles, etc. Shels' reputation now is of a club who don't pay wages, who are cash bankrupt, who lie regularly to keep the wolves at bay and who certainly no full-time player with a mortgage and family would consider joining.


if you keep your club together and avoid relegation you'll be in a very good position to rebuild your club from.
Do you think so? I'm not (in all honesty here!) so sure.

The closest likeness we have to Shels' situation is what happened to Rovers two years ago. Rovers shipped a load of players, got some poorer ones in and wound up relegated, albeit with the aid of a points deduction which would have put them eighth, I think. Their crowds were about Shels' level (c 1500) and their revised budget was, if I recall correctly, not much bigger than ours.

They have, in fairness, regrouped since, won the First Division although it remains to be seen how they fare back in the Premier next year.

However, there are important differences between Shels and Rovers. First, Rovers had all their debts wiped in the examination process. Shels haven't, and with Ollie in charge, it's not going to happen. Servicing those debts is going to take a huge chunk of cash flow. Shels don't have to pay rent, but rent is only cE2k per game (Dublin City paid E30k for a season to Bohs) while Revenue repayments and loan repayments would probably amount to that per month.

Secondly, Shels' debts are far bigger than Rovers. Rovers' were E1.8m, Shels' have been reported at 6.5m, and there's still six weeks before the next cash receipt.

Thirdly, Ollie's still in charge at Shels. I don't for a second believe he's still reformed. Leopards never change their spots and all that. He still holds all the strings and will more than likely continue to overreach as before. Rovers had a change of ownership which brought about an immediate change in business policy, which had the effect of (a) letting the club live within their means and (b) getting breathing space from their creditors. They would have gone into liquidation, not examinership, had Maguire et al still been around. Shels won't be getting the examinership option as long as Ollie's around.

Fourthly, Rovers had the 400 club to save it. The Shels SSDG - while I'm sure it has the greatest intentions for their club - is reported to have only about 50 members, each being asked to pay E20 per week. That's only a grand a week, which simply isn't enough to make any noticeable difference.

Lastly, Rovers managed to keep together a vaguely decent squad - players like McCourt, Murphy and a couple of others, while they brought in experienced players like Kenny and Sheridan. It's yet to be seen whether Shels - with their reputation seriously damaged by repeated and very public failures to pay wages - will be able to attract even this calibre of player.

(On that note, any UCD player bar Tony Mac, Daz Ryan, Al Mahon and Allie Mac would command a transfer fee, which everyone knows Shels can't afford, so it's unlikely we'd get raided).

They do have the parachute payments of the Setanta Cup and - maybe - the Champions' League, although higgins' notion of receiving "hundreds of thousands" are fantasy, especially if they get knocked out in the First Round by Faroese opposition or someone. Come 2008, though, they'll have to tighten their purse again - Europe, 95% of prize money and Setanta Cup all presumably gone - something which Rovers didn't have to do to anywhere near the same extent when they went down.

I honestly think it looks like a very dark few years ahead for Shels, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them turn into something like a Dundalk or even a Limerick in the next few years.

[Poor Student]

Players who Mahon could raid would be:
Tony Mac - obviously not leaving
Alan Mahon - probably would go
Ally Mac - The biggest potential loss
Daz - Doubt he'd go for him
Keith Doyle - Would be a big loss
Paul Crowley - Wouldn't be the end of the world

I'm assuming contracts haven't been renewed. I'd really hate to lose Ally Mac but I'd hope he'd be very sceptical of his chances of being paid properly.

[Poor Student]

Pete says he'll make his decision one way or another by Monday according to the Indo.

[joeSoap]

Pete Mahon....undoubtedly the most pig ignorant man I've had the displeasure of meeting since Pat Devlin....

Shels + Pete Mahon = match made in heaven. :rolleyes:

[Poor Student]

Pete Mahon....undoubtedly the most pig ignorant man I've had the displeasure of meeting

Someone else told me that too. I've never met him person to person but you can't deny the upturn in our fortunes during his three and a half year tenure.

[Schumi]

Never had any problems with him, unlike some other managers.

[pineapple stu]

Never had any problems with him, unlike some other managers.
Ditto. Always a sound person to have a talk with, and unlike others, generally tends to keep to himself and not go spouting in the media. Even during Doolin-gate, which is about the only time he actually had negative things to say about someone, he was almost embarrassed afterwards, and was asking me at one stage just to confirm that he actually was right in what he was saying (which, of course, he was).

It's in the Mirror today that he's likely to take the job if Ollie can convince him that the financial problems of this year are a thing of the past. I really don't see how he can do so, to be honest, especially given Ollie's track records of promising things. It also says that the fact Shels will be a full time outfit next year - with a budget down from E1.9m to E900k - will be a major factor. However, Ollie's gone public saying that the team will likely be part-time next year, and you'd be doing well to get full-time players to sign on after the debacle of last year. I'm more confused than ever now!

Pre-season training begins on Monday, so I think we can assume at this stage that all our contracts are sorted out and anyone leaving now would command a fee.

As a replacement (if needed) - Bobby Browne? Seems to want to get back into the league, took Monaghan up on a small budget while playing decent football apparently and is currently with Malahide United, so would have a bit of knowledge about the non-league scene.

[Poor Student]

As a replacement (if needed) - Bobby Browne? Seems to want to get back into the league, took Monaghan up on a small budget while playing decent football apparently and is currently with Malahide United, so would have a bit of knowledge about the non-league scene.

It worked with Mahon. I'd prefer a specific knowledge of the underage scene as opposed to the non-league scene. Mahon's only two recruits from non-league were Kavanagh and Whitmarsh if I recall correctly. I wonder if Wallace would hang around or move on if Mahon went.

[Student Mullet]

The 'Irish' Daily Mail has a piece on this. It quotes Pete as saying he has another meeting with Shels and has given them a list of stuff that'd need to be done before he'll move. As an alternative, he's been offered a stepped up version of Maccer's job on a full time basis by UCD.

[pineapple stu]

Does the stuff sound realistic?

Is this where our E10k from the FAI is going?

Has a raise and a switch to full-time been his aim all along?


Edit - in hindsight, I assume the "stuff" wasn't listed of course...

The other two questions are obvioulsy rhetorical.

[Aberdonian Stu]

It would be a smart play to do that.

[DmanDmythDledge]

As an alternative, he's been offered a stepped up version of Maccer's job on a full time basis by UCD.
What does that mean exactly?

[Poor Student]

So has be been offered a move "upstairs" as it were? Or is this something to supplement his managerial role?

[Student Mullet]

I presume in addition to his management job. Doc O'Neill's old job is what I'm thinking.

[pineapple stu]

Did the Mail give any indication as to which option he'd be likely to take?

[Student Mullet]

Did the Mail give any indication as to which option he'd be likely to take?I'm working from memory and the quote wasn't very long. He basically said:

I met with Shelbourne and informed the UCD directors because that's how I do business, I won't go behind anyone's back. I told Shelbourne that certain conditions will have to be met before I consider the job and I'll be meeting them again soon.
The Daily mail believes that UCD have countered this by offering the full time position of UCD Director of Football to Mahon and have been in negotiations on this for the last few months.

[Poor Student]

The Daily mail believes that UCD have countered this by offering the full time position of UCD Director of Football to Mahon and have been in negotiations on this for the last few months.

Hmmm, suggests it's not just a counter offer to Shels. Pity this could scupper some sort of club structuring they have in mind.


I met with Shelbourne and informed the UCD directors because that's how I do business, I won't go behind anyone's back. I told Shelbourne that certain conditions will have to be met before I consider the job and I'll be meeting them again soon.

That's a bit weird to me. I mean it's wise enough but I wouldn't trust Ollie even if he promised to meet those conditions. I'm assuming he'd be looking for some very concrete guarantees and you'd wonder if Shels could give them so soon. I don't know how Ollie could actually convince someone of even mild stability. I know he's being diplomatic but he did say he'd only consider even if they were met. He wouldn't be the first person in football to hear what another party has to say out of interest and explore options and stay put. Seems we'll know soon enough.

[higgins]

If he has been in discussions with UCD for a few months I'd imagine there was some problems somewhere along the way ?

Maybe Pete is being smart and using Ollie to force their hand ?

Then again,, I actually think he will go if Ollie sorts out the mess.

[Bald Student]

If he has been in discussions with UCD for a few months I'd imagine there was some problems somewhere along the way ?This is the civil service don't forget. Simple things can sometimes take a while.


Then again, I actually think he will go if Ollie sorts out the mess.I recon so too. He wouldn't be meeting yee again if he wasn't looking for the move.

[DmanDmythDledge]

If Then again,, I actually think he will go if Ollie sorts out the mess.
Like Bald Student I would agree with that. It's also very likely that he will bring a few players with him. The only thing is what can Ollie do to prove that Shelbourne will be financially stable next season? It looks like Pete may have to make a decision based on whatever Ollie says and decide if he trusts him...

[pineapple stu]

I wonder as well if it's a case of Pete trying to get the UCD directors to prove something to him, and using this as a smokescreen?

Even if players haven't signed contracts, most are under 23 and with us two years, so transfer fees will be due regardless, which Shels can't pay.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Even if players haven't signed contracts, most are under 23 and with us two years, so transfer fees will be due regardless, which Shels can't pay.
Tony Mc, Ally Mc...

And Shels could be getting £450k from Cardiff for Byrne...

[CollegeTillIDie]

1) Shelbourne could be facing the following scenario over the next few months. If they do not get their financial affairs in order they won't have ANY of least season's squad left. In March they may be denied permission to participate in Europe by UEFA, which would see the Champions League slot fall to Derry City.

UCD on the other hand may be in the UEFA Cup if they are lucky in the draw for a fair play slot. Advantage UCD

2) Pete might not get paid promptly at Shels under the above scenario. He has never failed to be paid on time at UCD. Advantage UCD.

3) Shels could do a Dublin City and fold in mid-season. Won't happen to UCD. Advantage UCD.


4) Even if everything is in order. Shels will not do well in the League with a weakened squad, mid table at best. Probably go out early in Europe too which means no European football in 2008. UCD are improving year on year and with a weakened Shelbourne UCD might finish in the top five this season if Pete stays. Advantage UCD.



5) Shels may not be entitled to transfer fees for some of their best players who have recently left, as they are owed unpaid wages and therefore became technically free agents. So the money Ollie might have anticipated coming into the coffers, may not now be doing so. Especially in the case of Sean Dillon and Jason Byrne. UCD are entitled to fees for all players tipped to be leaving in recent times bar Patrick Kavanagh who was amateur. Advantage UCD.


P.S.On an unrelated matter and as I am peeed off at getting villified for multiple postings. What happens to Maccer if Pete gets the Director of Football role? Does he become Club Promotions Officer?

[pineapple stu]

Tony Mc, Ally Mc...

And Shels could be getting £450k from Cardiff for Byrne...
Tony Mac's going nowhere.

Cardiff won't pay £450,000 for Jason Byrne if his contract has been infringed, which it clearly has. They'll pay at most a nominal fee like Dillon and Ryan in order to avoid the delay of the case going to court. Even then, Bray get half.

[CollegeTillIDie]

There's an article in today's Indo which describes Pete as Shels Manager elect :(

[Poor Student]

There's an article in today's Indo which describes Pete as Shels Manager elect :(

Chippie (think he's a Bohs fan) on Shelsweb says he as good as gone and he's usually sharp with the inside news.

[Poor Student]

Another fella says he has it on good authority that Mahon turned it down.

Ah, the joys of the rumour mill.

[Student Mullet]

A source once close to Alan Mathews says he's taken the job.

[drummerboy]

Pete Mahon has definitely turned down the Shels job. Its a fact.

[BohsPartisan]

Good stuff. He'd have been insane to take that job.

[pineapple stu]

Thank God for that (assuming it's true).

I take it then Pete got what he was looking for?

[Burnsie]

here's hoping lads. and as has been said, hopefully there will be the corollary benefit of one or two experienced additions to our own squad, presuming that this was one of mahon's "demands" to the board.

[pineapple stu]

The Evening Herald said Pete was lining up move for Barry Ferguson, Matt Gregg and Jason McGuinness.

Now I know it's the Herald, but still. It didn't say which club he was lining up the moves for, and we've already been linked with Gregg. Is he after McGuinness and Ferguson too? I would have thought we'd have been after more attack-minded players, to be honest. I would have said Tony Mac and Paul Crowley would have covered Ferguson's position, and Allie Mac and Conor Kenna are one of the best centre-back pairings in the league.

Fintan Cassidy is on Shels' forum saying Pete's turned the job down as well. Make of that what you will.

[Burnsie]

mcguinness was bohs best attacking threat when they threw him upfield at dalyer in november, not that that's saying much.