QuoteYeah but don't they have better prospects of getting paid at UCD?
Has Mahon definitely gone?
Forget about Shels for a minute, the impact this could have on our club is very bad. All our players are on short term contracts and we saw how Doolan raided UCD for a lot of players. Have the current senior players who are out of contract even had theirs renewed? Mahon has rebuilt this club and its youth scouting network following Doolan destroying it, he could take key personnel like Wallace with him and we'd have to do it all over again. Potential youth targets and current youth players could also be poached. I know you could argue Shels are broke, have no resources etc. but then what the hell is tempting him to go there?
Yeah but don't they have better prospects of getting paid at UCD?
Has Mahon definitely gone?
TO TELL THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY
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All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.
I only heard a snippet on the radio, was only half listening so didn't really catch it. Something like he'd been linked.Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
I'd say that too, BP, but I wonder how they're even tempting Mahon (if stories are true). No, he hasn't gone but it's being said that he or Shels will be talking to the UCD board.
Here's the snippet from the Irish Times -
Honestly can't understand why he'd move. Leave a club on the up (four seasons under Pete have all been a big improvement on each other), who are paying him and who are building his reputation as a decent manager for one who are on a dramatic slide, who have a track record of not paying staff and who could well destroy his reputation as Shels appear set for a serious struggle against relegation next year. Touch wood it's just him trying to get a pay rise at UCD.
Find it hilarious on the Shels forum that Mr Higgins thinks Shels are a better club than us!
If he does leave though, who's the next manager? Tony Mac? Maccer?!
I'm assuming he operates on a a year to year contract and we'd be due no compensation?
Pete may feel that he's taken UCD as far as he can and he would look forward to a new challenge. I think he can take us further and that we've made tremendous progress under him. I don't think he'll be able to take Shels any further than he could take us with Derry, Drogheda and Bohs all heading streets ahead of Shels. Maybe Ollie has informed him of some new financing deal but you'd not be inclined to trust him given all that's gone on over the years. Maybe Pete feels he has to right some wrongs at a big Dublin club after his time at Bohs? I don't really know but I hope he stays. Like many players who left this club he should look at the grass is greener syndrome.
If Pete does go I think the club has to be very wise in replacing him. We'd need someone with a good knowledge of underage football like Pete and I don't think Tony Mac has that. There's also no point in making one of our best players a manager when he still (hopefully) has years of playing service to give.
Last edited by Poor Student; 11/01/2007 at 12:56 PM.
Seems I wouldn't be the only person out there to think we are a better club! Pete Mahon is only waiting on Ollie to secure money and he will be on his way.
Your key to keeping Mahon is that Ollie doesn't find money to replace the downpayments from the builders.
Shels may be out of cash but if they get round the current crisis and the season starts and europe comes along. Pete Mahon will have a decent budget there. Nowhere near the likes of Pat Fenlons but I'd imagine more than UCD's.
Is the UCD playing budget public knowledge by the way ?
Last edited by higgins; 11/01/2007 at 12:57 PM.
John Delaney!! GET OUT!!!
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You could follow your tried and tested route of hiring failed Bohs managers.
Step up tho the plate, Mr. Gareth Farrelly!
TO TELL THE TRUTH IS REVOLUTIONARY
The ONLY foot.ie user with a type of logic named after them!
All of this has happened before. All of it will happen again.
Probably.
Possibly, but Shels isn't the place to go to move forward.
I would be surprised if UCD - with Pete Mahon as manager - finished behind Shels - with all their players gone and replaced to the best of their abilities next season. Shels are looking at at best a season of mid-table mediocrity, and at worst relegation. Their crowds are going to drop off, possibly to below 1000. They still have massive debts, including a regular Revenue repayment which is going to seriously hinder their budget. Basically, if their budget next year is significantly larger than ours, they're trading recklessly.
So moving from UCD to Shels is basically moving from one level to the same level, only he probably won't get paid.
You've been talking to Pete, I take it?
That's grand; we're safe so.
You still think all your problems are because you've hit a little cash flow in the close season, and that once 1000 people start paying in every other week, you'll be grand?
Quarter of a mill or so. Or maybe that was the First Division level.
They're all the same things I'd be inclined to think yet here we are with strong suggestions that Mahon is on his way. I don't particularly care if he moves and it all crumbles down around him, I'm infinitely more worried about the impact Mahon's departure could have on this club.
Going by Higgins posts (which I don't doubt) then it's hinging on whether Ollie gets extra funding. I'm not pleased at this situation as we don't want this dragging out. We need to know one way or another whether Pete is staying so we can get on with the plans for the upcoming season.
I don't think once the season starts we can continue on from where we left off.
Whats happened is the 'investment/builders' money has stopped. Why shels went on thinking the well would never dry up was stupid. I shouldn't need to add in that I'm delighted to see that it has but with some posters around here you'd believe I was the one making the decisions at Shels. I'm not! and I have said from Day 1 it was wrong to touch that money.
Anyway, the rug was pulled from under Ollie at the worst possible time. The start of the Close Season, this was done on purpose to leave Ollie with little opyion but to take the new terms of the 'investment' or see Shels crumble.
If it's for selfish reasons or for the love of Shels, I'll let you lot decide but Ollie did not take the new terms.
So today we have very little money coming in and a squad (well half a squad) to pay for. Tax repayments and whatever else comes through the letterbox.
If Ollie finds money to cover them expenses and the season starts, then he is back in the game. If he finds the money and pays the bills the FAI can not take europe away and that's a few hundred thousand straight away. Setanta Cup too..
If your budget is only 250K a season your nuts if you thinks shels won't have a bigger one. Thats only 5K a week ?? You wouldn't put a LSL team out for that.
Read what Pete said today. It's code for I'm waiting on Ollie to find the lolly. Will he find it ?
Shels went on a spending spree the past two or three seasons but if you cast your mind back to 2004 and before, Shels were better than UCD then and didn't have the Tolka sale fund to dip into. I'd be very surprised if UCD finish ahead of Shels even with feck all of a pre season for the new manager.
Last edited by higgins; 11/01/2007 at 1:28 PM.
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You tell me. You're the man in the know. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind would invest in Shels with Ollie at the helm even with promises of reduced expenditure. Sure even if he kept that promise it would mean no return on investment as you won't be likely to achieve much in the future.
Your spending spree has damaged you so badly you won't even be able to return to pre-2004 type spending. If everyone but Baker and Moore goes you'll have a monumental short term building project on your hands. How do you build a first team and a squad from scratch also taking into account that most good signings have been snapped up. It's a bigger task than you seem to be admitting.Shels went on a spending spree the past two or three seasons but if you cast your mind back to 2004 and before, Shels were better than UCD then and didn't have the Tolka sale fund to dip into. I'd be very surprised if UCD finish ahead of Shels even with feck all of a pre season for the new manager.
We field 2 LSL teams on a lot less than that.
On the main point, if Pete wants to go, that's his choice.
The players should all be signed up for next season so unless there's been some funny business going on (which I wouldn't expect from Pete) Shels will have to pay to take anyone.
I don't think it will be easy to build a team but it's Shelbourne and there will be Champions League. You'd don't seem to see any draw in the name Shelbourne but I'm sure there are many players who would still sign for Shels even after what has happened.
We won't have the team we had last season but the budget I feel will be higher than that at UCD and I still think we will make more money in the 2008 season than what UCD will.
The figures for the CL will be more than your home gates bring in all season.
If Ollie gets money he pays the players and tax, we assure ourselves of CL football and Mahon comes in.
Again, do you think Ollie will get the money?
If he could get a fee for Sean dillon !!!
Last edited by higgins; 11/01/2007 at 2:00 PM.
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That's how I see it too. Whatever your budget, I don't think you'll be above mid table next season but if you keep your club together and avoid relegation you'll be in a very good position to rebuild your club from.
I seriously doubt it. No club in Ireland - bar perhaps Rovers, and even that's on the wane as Milltown becomes a more and more distant memory - has the kind of aura about it that would make players want to play for them regardless of any financial troubles, etc. Shels' reputation now is of a club who don't pay wages, who are cash bankrupt, who lie regularly to keep the wolves at bay and who certainly no full-time player with a mortgage and family would consider joining.
Do you think so? I'm not (in all honesty here!) so sure.
The closest likeness we have to Shels' situation is what happened to Rovers two years ago. Rovers shipped a load of players, got some poorer ones in and wound up relegated, albeit with the aid of a points deduction which would have put them eighth, I think. Their crowds were about Shels' level (c 1500) and their revised budget was, if I recall correctly, not much bigger than ours.
They have, in fairness, regrouped since, won the First Division although it remains to be seen how they fare back in the Premier next year.
However, there are important differences between Shels and Rovers. First, Rovers had all their debts wiped in the examination process. Shels haven't, and with Ollie in charge, it's not going to happen. Servicing those debts is going to take a huge chunk of cash flow. Shels don't have to pay rent, but rent is only cE2k per game (Dublin City paid E30k for a season to Bohs) while Revenue repayments and loan repayments would probably amount to that per month.
Secondly, Shels' debts are far bigger than Rovers. Rovers' were E1.8m, Shels' have been reported at 6.5m, and there's still six weeks before the next cash receipt.
Thirdly, Ollie's still in charge at Shels. I don't for a second believe he's still reformed. Leopards never change their spots and all that. He still holds all the strings and will more than likely continue to overreach as before. Rovers had a change of ownership which brought about an immediate change in business policy, which had the effect of (a) letting the club live within their means and (b) getting breathing space from their creditors. They would have gone into liquidation, not examinership, had Maguire et al still been around. Shels won't be getting the examinership option as long as Ollie's around.
Fourthly, Rovers had the 400 club to save it. The Shels SSDG - while I'm sure it has the greatest intentions for their club - is reported to have only about 50 members, each being asked to pay E20 per week. That's only a grand a week, which simply isn't enough to make any noticeable difference.
Lastly, Rovers managed to keep together a vaguely decent squad - players like McCourt, Murphy and a couple of others, while they brought in experienced players like Kenny and Sheridan. It's yet to be seen whether Shels - with their reputation seriously damaged by repeated and very public failures to pay wages - will be able to attract even this calibre of player.
(On that note, any UCD player bar Tony Mac, Daz Ryan, Al Mahon and Allie Mac would command a transfer fee, which everyone knows Shels can't afford, so it's unlikely we'd get raided).
They do have the parachute payments of the Setanta Cup and - maybe - the Champions' League, although higgins' notion of receiving "hundreds of thousands" are fantasy, especially if they get knocked out in the First Round by Faroese opposition or someone. Come 2008, though, they'll have to tighten their purse again - Europe, 95% of prize money and Setanta Cup all presumably gone - something which Rovers didn't have to do to anywhere near the same extent when they went down.
I honestly think it looks like a very dark few years ahead for Shels, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them turn into something like a Dundalk or even a Limerick in the next few years.
Players who Mahon could raid would be:
Tony Mac - obviously not leaving
Alan Mahon - probably would go
Ally Mac - The biggest potential loss
Daz - Doubt he'd go for him
Keith Doyle - Would be a big loss
Paul Crowley - Wouldn't be the end of the world
I'm assuming contracts haven't been renewed. I'd really hate to lose Ally Mac but I'd hope he'd be very sceptical of his chances of being paid properly.
Pete says he'll make his decision one way or another by Monday according to the Indo.
Pete Mahon....undoubtedly the most pig ignorant man I've had the displeasure of meeting since Pat Devlin....
Shels + Pete Mahon = match made in heaven.
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