View Full Version : Employing black people as toilet tenants is 'demeaning'
AN anti-racism body has hit out at pub and nightclub owners for the "demeaning" practice of employing black people as toilet tenants
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1739564&issue_id=14990
just bugs me, i hate it. Thanks i can take a pi$$ on my own & wash my hands. As for being racist, they don't have to work there & i'm sure their not paying tax on all thier "income". Lads you know where the door is.
As for being racist, they don't have to work there & i'm sure their not paying tax on all thier "income". Lads you know where the door is.
Presumably the pub and club owners will have no problem producing the documentation to show that they are being paid minimum wage at least - payslips and P60's. If they are reaching taxable rates of income, it's the employers duty to deduct and pay that. Tips take as cash are not taxable, and are not considered wages.
Never mind that "they" might be exploited in the hope of getting a few bob, they don't have to do it. Afterall, I'm sure it's top of an immigrants wish list to work in jacks trying to get tips from drunk punters.
Peadar
11/12/2006, 8:46 AM
It's all well and good if you're in some posh gaff and take leak after a glass of wine but if you're on the beer all night, it can cost you a bleedin' fortune to go to the jax.
I don't think it's necessary or right to switch off the hand dryers, in order to force you to take a paper towel, from a guy sitting next to a dish full of coins.
Pauro 76
11/12/2006, 9:15 AM
i dunno, they can be useful in nightclubs. and sometimes they can add to the banter. obviously the pushy ones id have problems with, i dont mind shelling out a quid for a splash of aftershave and deodarant on a night out but every time you visit is a bit much to expect alright.
Lionel Ritchie
11/12/2006, 9:27 AM
Anecdotally, I have it that few if any of these guys (and gals) are actually "employees" of nightclubs. They approach the venue -in much the same way bands, DJs and their agents approach venues looking for a gig -and ask can they set up their stall in the toilets.
I don't get to clubs that often these days but I seem to recall it all being a bit unneccessary (Their "products" -anti perspirant etc... was all pound shop muck that you'd be more likely to spray on an ant-hive as well I recall) .
Beyond restaurants -we don't have a tipping culture in our society and for sound reasons -access to recreational services such as nightclubs is relatively expensive already and it's reasonable to expect not to have to tip everyone you deal with therein.
Not sure the "self employed" thing works with revenue anymore. The Construction Industry got stung over bogus self employed, resulting in a €40 a week increase in average pay in the industry.
NeilMcD
11/12/2006, 10:25 AM
From what I know they dont get paid and all they get is the tips. To be honest they are providing a service that is not requested or demanded in my view and most people only pay due to guilt etc.
It is demeaning for anyone to work in niteclub toilets as an attendant.
If I am sober enough no chance I am paying someone for a paper towel & chance to splash some vinegar on my face. I would resist the guilt element by just refusing the paper towel.
I blame the bar/club owners. They cannot possibly think its a service to have toilet attendant unless its a safety thing as the guys don't clean the toilets.
GavinZac
11/12/2006, 12:14 PM
It is demeaning for anyone to work in niteclub toilets as an attendant.
If I am sober enough no chance I am paying someone for a paper towel & chance to splash some vinegar on my face. I would resist the guilt element by just refusing the paper towel.
I blame the bar/club owners. They cannot possibly think its a service to have toilet attendant unless its a safety thing as the guys don't clean the toilets.
nobody is forcing them to do it.
btw im guessing this is a dublin thing as ive never seen them in cork
Newryrep
11/12/2006, 1:42 PM
Seen toilet attendants usually old/er women it in plently of places in Europe
Err, actually 3 places, Brussels, Stuttgart, some posh bar in London i think (it was a bit of a haze that night)
el punter
11/12/2006, 2:06 PM
Is it only demeaning if the toilet attendant is black?
Student Mullet
11/12/2006, 2:20 PM
Is it only demeaning if the toilet attendant is black?They're only ever black. That's what's demeaning.
Ive been unemployed for 4 years now
I basically cant get a job in my chosen career
toilet assistance
these damn foreigners are coming over here and taking our jobs!
anto1208
11/12/2006, 3:08 PM
Oh the old blacks in the jacks as ive heard them being called recently!
I don’t mind them; here are some tips to not paying 2 euro for every pee
1. Say no (seems obvious I know)
2. Don’t wash your hands (is your Mickey really that much dirtier than the filthy club that has been pawed by hundreds of drunken smelly Irish people with there clammy hands: D )
Or
3.what I do have a chat with the guy ask him where his from what’s his name etc etc general small talk have a bit of a joke with him drop him a 2 euro tip then he will remember you for the rest of the night and you can pee freely .
its the same guy normally in the club i go to he is good fun ive gotten to know him pretty well as im always going on about joey yobo and he wont take any money off me now .
I wonder why the people who made this report think a guy trying to earn an honest buck is demeaning, do they also consider the women that scrub toilets and the guys who sweep the road to be demeaning themselves also.
i tend to get more worked up about tipping a waiter "thanks for doing your job to a reasonable standard here is some free money on top of your wages for carring my food from the kitchen to the table" .
el punter
11/12/2006, 3:21 PM
They're only ever black. That's what's demeaning.
Unskilled immigrants do the jobs that the natives wont do for the money on offer . It's no more or less demeaning than than teenagers working in fast food places or clearing tables in pubs, or Eastern Europeans labouring on Irish farms.
Another man might call it a shrewd business opportunity.
It sounds like someone is being offended on behalf of toilet attendants.
Student Mullet
11/12/2006, 3:31 PM
Unskilled immigrants do the jobs that the natives wont do for the money on offer . It's no more or less demeaning than than teenagers working in fast food places or clearing tables in pubs, or Eastern Europeans labouring on Irish farms.
Another man might call it a shrewd business opportunity.
It sounds like someone is being offended on behalf of toilet attendants.The difference is that you get a mix of people working on farms, in pubs or in fast food shops. I have never seen a white person attending a toilet in Dublin. I've never even seen an asian or eastern europen immigrant do it. It is a job given entirely to black africans and that's what I don't like.
NY Hoop
11/12/2006, 3:47 PM
No matter what the colour of a person it is a demeaning job. I never tip them. This is not America. There is no tipping culture here. End of.
Another slant on it is that they, apparently, keep an eye out for people using the bogs to shoot up or can notify security if there's a mill happening. No harm in having them there really.
But I can wash my hands and dry them myself thanks and am not tipping in a club/late bar that is charging exorbitant rates for drinks.
As an aside anyone who doesnt wash their hands after using the bog is an animal and also the urinals are there for a reason.
KOH
Thunderblaster
11/12/2006, 9:59 PM
This service also exists in Westport in the local nightclub. Same layout but I wash my own hands and give nothing.
Anyone with aspirations to work in the toilets like that are sad individuals.
Would they wipe your bum on request??:eek: :D
GavinZac
11/12/2006, 10:06 PM
Anyone with aspirations to work in the toilets like that are sad individuals.no, its sad that this is what they have to do for a buck in this supposedly socialist republic.
strangeirish
11/12/2006, 10:22 PM
Ive been unemployed for 4 years now
I basically cant get a job in my chosen career
toilet assistance
these damn foreigners are coming over here and taking our jobs!
They're taking the p*ss to a new level so!:cool:
nedder
12/12/2006, 8:35 AM
The difference is that you get a mix of people working on farms, in pubs or in fast food shops. I have never seen a white person attending a toilet in Dublin. I've never even seen an asian or eastern europen immigrant do it. It is a job given entirely to black africans and that's what I don't like.
Bloody favouritism!! I think I might complain that I can't get a job in a toilet because I'm not a black African
anto1208
12/12/2006, 10:31 AM
no, its sad that this is what they have to do for a buck in this supposedly socialist republic.
its not a socialist rebublic
Rory H
12/12/2006, 10:37 AM
do they get money from the pub/club too or just the coins you give for some chewing gum and deoderant?
im employed to put petrol in cars....sometimes people give me money for this service....yet i have never seen a black person working in a filling station.is the job demeaning?no?because i get money.and im not too happy in my job.yet its demeaning for a black person to hand out tissue and sell aftershave for a nice profit....also toilet attendants get more respect for what they do than what i do.
Maybe the immigrants see these posh toilet attendants in the movies & think its a glamorous career?
That said I am sure they can earn more money at this than other simialr jobs. When you get past the working in toilet thing its probably also a lot easier job than the alternatives...?
Dodge
12/12/2006, 11:36 AM
I never tip them. This is not America. There is no tipping culture here. End of.
So you'd only tip if you're told to? You miserable sod. Tip if people deserve it whether you're in New York, Dublin or anywhere else.
And people here might want to relax with the rhetoric. Unless some of you know that pubs/clubs won't employ anybody who's not a "black African", stop trying to make out that its as big adeal as it is. I'm fairly certain that anybody who offers that service would get the job regardless of colour etc
its probably also a lot easier job than the alternatives...?
If they have alternatives, and are not barred from legitimately working
NY Hoop
12/12/2006, 12:16 PM
So you'd only tip if you're told to? You miserable sod. Tip if people deserve it whether you're in New York, Dublin or anywhere else.
And people here might want to relax with the rhetoric. Unless some of you know that pubs/clubs won't employ anybody who's not a "black African", stop trying to make out that its as big adeal as it is. I'm fairly certain that anybody who offers that service would get the job regardless of colour etc
You didnt read my post. There is no tipping culture here. There is a tipping culture in NY because of the customer service and also the wages of people there in the service industry are practically non existent so they rely on tips to make a living. I always tip well in NY.
KOH
Dodge
12/12/2006, 12:25 PM
The point I was making is that you should tip based on service, not on culture. Everyone tips in US regardless of service (although I agree that generally its better than here)
Docboy
12/12/2006, 12:30 PM
When The Slate did the "Blacks in the Jacks" piece they gave the impression that an agency gets paid by the club and the chaps keep whatever they can get.
Personally I think it's insulting to everyone involved but if they want to do it, let 'em.
NY Hoop
12/12/2006, 12:42 PM
The point I was making is that you should tip based on service, not on culture. Everyone tips in US regardless of service (although I agree that generally its better than here)
Not true. If the service is bad you dont have to tip and it makes a point. So should I tip some guy in the bog of a niteclub here for turning on the tap? Come on.........
In restaurants if the service is good for sure tip away but in a bog:eek:
KOH
No, wasn't saying you should tip in a bog for no reason. Far from it. But if you use a bit of deoderant and take the towels form him, tip him. I'm against paying for a **** too (oh and agree that everyone must wash their hands...)
BohsPartisan
12/12/2006, 2:39 PM
Bloody favouritism!! I think I might complain that I can't get a job in a toilet because I'm not a black African
As Carol Decker once sang:
"Don't push too far
Your dreams are china in your hand
Don't wish too hard
Because they may come true
And you can't help them
You don't know what you might
Have set upon yourself
China in your hand "
anto1208
12/12/2006, 5:05 PM
heres a better song
They take our jobs
They take our women
They pee in the pool when they go swimming
They live in a house the government give ‘em
The foreigners !!!
nedder
12/12/2006, 6:18 PM
As Carol Decker once sang:
"Don't push too far
Your dreams are china in your hand
Don't wish too hard
Because they may come true
And you can't help them
You don't know what you might
Have set upon yourself
China in your hand "
I know, I know.....:D
just think this whole thread is ridiculous. It's not like anyone is forcing people to work in toilets. I bet they make good money too!
BohsPartisan
13/12/2006, 7:58 AM
Well I doubt toilet work would be their first choice of job. I doubt they sat in school dreaming of being a toilet attendant. Maybe "No-one" is forcing them to work in toilets but "Something" obviously is. I mean who would choose this work over another job? These are obviously the only jobs they can get and well they need the money.
There's a guy in the Voodoo lounge called Austin. He's Nigerian but he's always singing or something. (Last time I was in there he was doing a Jamaican stlye Freestyle) You actually get entertained when you're having a wizz.
nedder
13/12/2006, 9:04 AM
Of course its not something they ever dreamed they'd do in school, but I don't see it as demeaning and i'm not sure there is any evidence that toilet attendants are anymore unhappy in their job than anyone else. Do people think its demeaning because of work location or because of poor pay??
Don't want to get into a debate about socialism or capitalism, but there are plenty of opportunites in this country if you work hard and try to better yourself
BohsPartisan
13/12/2006, 9:26 AM
i'm not sure there is any evidence that toilet attendants are anymore unhappy in their job than anyone else. Do people think its demeaning because of work location or because of poor pay??
Has anyone looked for evidence?
Its demeaning in a number of ways. Location, working for tips alone - you are more or less begging, and over time it lowers public perception of your ethnic group.
nedder
13/12/2006, 10:09 AM
Has anyone looked for evidence?
Its demeaning in a number of ways. Location, working for tips alone - you are more or less begging, and over time it lowers public perception of your ethnic group.
Thats my point, no one has looked for evidence or has any evidence that toilet attendants are unhappy in their jobs.
I do think that everyone should be on a least the minimum wage, but maybe toilet attendants make more in tips - It would only take a handful of people an hour giving them €1 tip each less the cost of poundshop aftershave to make more than the minimum wage...
Dodge
13/12/2006, 10:28 AM
Has anybody done any research to see if they're happy?
Cop on nedder.
gustavo
13/12/2006, 10:54 AM
I know one guy that did it in a nightclub in Sligo and as far as I know it was him that approached the club and asked if he could do it , They arent paying him at all and its all tips.
nedder
13/12/2006, 11:30 AM
Has anybody done any research to see if they're happy?
Cop on nedder.
People getting upset about foreign nationals working in jobs they are doing of there own free will, and maybe making half decent money should cop on, not me.
More to the point, has anyone done any research to see if they are unhappy?
nedder
13/12/2006, 11:32 AM
I know one guy that did it in a nightclub in Sligo and as far as I know it was him that approached the club and asked if he could do it , They arent paying him at all and its all tips.
Sounds like an entrepreneuring type of fella, did he do well on tips?
Dodge
13/12/2006, 12:01 PM
People getting upset about foreign nationals working in jobs they are doing of there own free will, and maybe making half decent money should cop on, not me.
More to the point, has anyone done any research to see if they are unhappy?
When you answer my question about whether anybody has done any research to see if they’re happy.
I take your point about people getting upset (and agree with 100%) but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t a rubbish job and doesn’t mean that everyone doing it would rather be doing something else.
If you honestly believe thse people are happy, fine...
When you answer my question about whether anybody has done any research to see if they’re happy.
At 2 euro a (tax free) tip i think toilet attendants would be easily earning the minimum wage per hour. Lets say guy works from 11pm to 4pm i think will easily earn more than 40 euro for the night. His costs would be minimal too.
This is typical middle class socialism assuming its some kind of slavery. No one is forcing them to work there as clearly they apporoach the clubs. If you can't get a job in Ireland these days at the unskilled level then you clearly too lazy. Every Spar in Dublin is looking for staff.
:rolleyes:
okay, I'll bite...
At 2 euro a (tax free) tip i think toilet attendants would be easily earning the minimum wage per hour
And his social insurance stamps?
No one is forcing them to work there as clearly they apporoach the clubs
It is not clear that they approach the clubs, but even if they do it doesn't absolve the clubs of paying de facto employees.
If you can't get a job in Ireland these days at the unskilled level then you clearly too lazy. Every Spar in Dublin is looking for staff.
Again, assuming that they're allowed to work.
nedder
13/12/2006, 12:21 PM
I take your point about people getting upset (and agree with 100%) but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t a rubbish job and doesn’t mean that everyone doing it would rather be doing something else.
If you honestly believe thse people are happy, fine...
A lot of people, in an ideal world, would rather be doing a different job, myself included
Happiness is all relative anyway...
Again, assuming that they're allowed to work.
If they not allowed to work then its illegal for them to work in the clubs.
I don't approve of toilet attendants but I do blame the clubs for allowing them there in the first place. They have high enough mark up on drink to employ a cleaner.
If they not allowed to work then its illegal for them to work in the clubs.
Exactly, so it's probably not as simple to say they can just go and get a job somewhere else. How people end up getting exploited is because they don't have any options, due to them being illegals, having work permits tied to employers etc.
nedder
13/12/2006, 12:47 PM
Exactly, so it's probably not as simple to say they can just go and get a job somewhere else. How people end up getting exploited is because they don't have any options, due to them being illegals, having work permits tied to employers etc.
Of course if they are illegal, they shouldn't be here. They have the option of returning home..
Roadend
13/12/2006, 1:28 PM
I feel it strange that nobody seems curious as to why you would want or need deodourant or aftershave in a nightclub in the firstplace. I mean do people not wash before they head out, in certain areas?
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