View Full Version : Due Process...my arse
passinginterest
08/12/2006, 2:46 PM
Being form a primarily GAA background I'm still appalled by whats going on in Tallaght. I'd support the GAA in a lot of things but they deserve all the criticism that's coming their way on this. Due to college/work commitments I haven't played GAA or soccer in the last couple of years but I'm trying to get back playing at the moment. This has made up my mind not to bother going back to the GAA. It's petty, smallminded, GAA bullying at its worst. It's sad.
OneRedArmy
08/12/2006, 3:00 PM
Look the Gaa could have done what the english rugby union did with twickenham and just have said no!It wasn't the RFU's call. Twickenham residents and the local council are particularly militant around the ground and have managed to successfully stop the bars opening after matches and prevented concerts being held.
The RFU knew they didn't stand a chance of getting permission for a bunch of soccer hooligans to come to leafy South West London so they didn't even ask.
Louth4sam
08/12/2006, 3:05 PM
Im also a GAA fan but i have to say its a disgrace that croke park is allowing this to happen. They should have stepped in long ago to stop all this nonsense. It just shows you how backward and petty some people in the GAA are. Why are the people of Tallaght allowing this to happen? Is this not causing a lot of bad feeling towards the club in tallaght?
Réiteoir
08/12/2006, 3:50 PM
Some interesting contributions to the subject of Clones and Tallaght on An Fear Rua's forum:
Whose stadium in Tallaght? Seems like another person who doesn't understand the difference between building something using your own money with grant aid and having something built for you by the county council and then renting it as primary tenants. Rovers fan are we?
It's quite clear that ground sharing is to be a one way street.
The GAA has all the good grounds. Happily for soccer and rugby clubs, the pitches are big enough to accommodate those games and therefore those grounds should be shared. Sure didn’t the GAA open Croke Park? What’s the problem with opening the rest?
The rugby and soccer clubs would like to reciprocate – they really would - but unfortunately the smaller pitch sizes are unsuitable for Gaelic games. Making the playing area bigger would lead to smaller stadium capacities and that is simply intolerable (see Lansdowne and Tallaght).
It’s no matter. Sure doesn’t the GAA have enough grounds of its own? What need has it to have county councils build stadiums for it?
Well without wanting to open this can of worms, Thomas Davis have an architectural review which shows the stadium can be made to fit the GAA without a reduction in capacity, it'll mean redeveloping part of the work already done but with the DCB offering to help finance it I don't see what the problem is.
At least there is finally movement on Rathcoole. After 12 years of faffing the SDCC seem to finally have got their act together.
From John Costello's report:
"Rathcoole
In 1995, the Board negotiated the purchase of 26.2 acres of land to the East of Rathcoole from South Dublin County Council. The Council agreed to provide a right-of-way to the public road so that the Board could access the lands. At that time the Council expected this right-of-way to be through the existing Rathcoole Public Park. However, their efforts to deliver on this commitment were resisted by the local community and, accordingly, the lands have not yet been legally conveyed to the Board, despite the payment in full of the agreed purchase price. There have been numerous representations by the Board to the Council but to no avail, although the Council continue to insist that they are actively endeavouring to find a way to deliver on the access commitment.
In March 2006, we asked Michael Hand of PH McCarthy Consulting Engineers (and also Vice-Chairman of Ballinteer St John’s) to assist us in discussions with the Council. He established that the Council was involved in a Part 8 planning procedure for the so-called Rathcoole/Saggart Distributor Road with the project being on Public Display. The route of this road was along the southern boundary of the Board’s lands and, accordingly, the Council saw this as facilitating the necessary access. However, it became evident that there was significant local opposition to the Distributor Road, although indications were that there was still strong local support for the Board’s proposals to locate playing facilities on its lands.
The Board lodged a letter of support for the Council’s Part 8 proposals. Subsequent discussions between our Consulting Engineers and Council Officials on the one hand, and the Officials and the Councillors on the other, yielded a compromise whereby a 1km length of new roadway from Stoney Lane to the boundary of the Board’s lands was formally adopted by the Council at their July 2006 meeting. This would give access to the Board’s lands from the west, when constructed.
We met with the Council’s Director of Services for Planning at the end of October last who confirmed the following: -
w The Council is advancing land purchase procedures for the approved stretch of Distributor Road;
w The Council has funds in place to construct the road;
w The road would release some 25 acres of the Council’s own lands for social housing and, accordingly, its completion will receive top priority;
w Given a fair wind, the Council anticipates completion of the road by the end of 2008; and
w The Council has offered to hold pre-planning consultations with the Board’s representatives with a view to fixing site boundaries and agreeing an acceptable site configuration.
In view of this positive response from the Council, we have instructed the Consulting Engineers to engage with the Officials so that a planning application can be lodged at the earliest possible date. Arising from these discussions, it will be possible to complete the legal transfer of the lands to the Board. As there are a number of complexities to be resolved, we would not expect the planning or transfer processes to be advanced until early 2007."
Are you serious,the fai are making money out of croke park!!!
That's not really the point - if the FAI feel hamstrung in defending the rights of their clubs against insular bigots then they should tell the GAA where to go, and play the games in the UK.
i blame the club not the gaa!
The GAA are supporting them. You can absolve the GAA as an organisation when any part of it comes out against the club
Wheres the moderator-this is just turning into a gaa bashing forum and before you go on about this being a soccer it also covers other sports and general discussions.
This is an eircom league forum, and the case involves the GAA trying to screw an eircom league club. If you don't like the tone of the discussion, maybe you should be lobbying your beloved GAA to drop this action, rather than having a go at football fans for being upset about it.
BohDiddley
08/12/2006, 6:39 PM
Wheres the moderator-this is just turning into a gaa bashing forum...
When are you going to desist from this worn-out old reflex? Every time the sanctified GAA comes in for perfectly justified criticism someone comes out with this tosh.
Everyone would be perfectly happy if the GAA were prepared to live and let live, but that, as we have seen time and again throughout its history, seems to be beyond it.
CollegeTillIDie
08/12/2006, 7:22 PM
This is a clear case of Thomas Davis trying every trick in the book, to stop Shamrock Rovers getting a foothold in Tallaght.
Seeing as this is the case, all EL fans and I mean ALL, especially Shamrock Rovers fans, should boycott anything to do with the GAA until further notice.
That means simply the following:-
1) Boycott All Dublin GAA Fixtures of any code
2) Boycott All FAI International matches held in Croke Park,
because the GAA will be getting rent for these fixtures.
I am currently boycotting all such fixtures in solidarity with Shamrock Rovers.
OneRedArmy
08/12/2006, 8:40 PM
When are you going to desist from this worn-out old reflex? Every time the sanctified GAA comes in for perfectly justified criticism someone comes out with this tosh.
Everyone would be perfectly happy if the GAA were prepared to live and let live, but that, as we have seen time and again throughout its history, seems to be beyond it.Amen.
Sheep-man, defend the points raised rather than clinging to vague notions of "GAA-bashing" and the like, which are akin to saying "won't someone please think of the children".
CollegeTillIDie
08/12/2006, 10:06 PM
Gaelic football is primarily to do with players "bashing" one another :D
BohDiddley
09/12/2006, 11:00 AM
1) Boycott All Dublin GAA Fixtures of any code
I've been doing that for donkey's years. They haven't noticed. :(
gael353
09/12/2006, 12:29 PM
I think the targetting of Thomas Davis sponsors and the GAA as a whole is the way to go. Just like the "JOHN 3:16" signs which can be seen on tv, similar signs (clever and witty) need to be made up and gotten onto tv. Tg4 are doing club matches all over the country week in week out and this could be a start but the leagues are also starting in January so while your doing nothing waiting for our season to start we could stay out of hibernation and do something proactive yet peaceful. Attend games in your LOI jerseys, or if holding a banner, wear your county colours thus showing support for the code but not for Thomas Davis/Sponsor etc.
On another point i see as well as the €178 million the GAA recieved in public monies for Croke Park they were also given €3 million of public monies for the instillation of floodlights. I think they have had enough, dont you? :ball: :ball:
BohDiddley
09/12/2006, 12:37 PM
On another point i see as well as the €178 million the GAA recieved in public monies for Croke Park they were also given €3 million of public monies for the instillation of floodlights. I think they have had enough, dont you? :ball: :ball:
This is the part where someone inevitably comes in and says that the GAA deserves its success because of its administrative and fund-raising genius.
This is the part where someone inevitably comes in and says that the GAA deserves its success because of its administrative and fund-raising genius.
The GAA deserves its success because of its administrative and fund-raising genius.
BohsFans
09/12/2006, 7:29 PM
Best of luck to the GAA!
That stand/pitch should be for the whole Tallaght community and therefore cater for a range of sports, not just for the Shamrocks.
Amen.
BohsFans
09/12/2006, 11:19 PM
forever in our shadow
A statement that is wrong on so many levels!
and the sad thing is YOU know it too!
I think the GAA are getting nervous that may not be able to fill their shiney new stadium for their own sports in the future. The extra games in the Championship have been a boost over the last numbers of years with some teams playing in Croke Park for first time in decades. Now that the novelty has worn out attendances are not as good & only get event junkies for the summer games.
The eL may not be much threat to the GAA but international football & rugby as well as the hype surrounding provincial rugby must be affecting them in the heartlands.
BohDiddley
10/12/2006, 11:41 AM
Here's a little more (http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/46426)of the reality of the bigotry towards the poor, persecuted GAA.
Lads ye love the word bigot here i noticed
"Bigot" is actually a fairly harmless description. More fitting descriptions would probably be banned from this forum.
BohDiddley
10/12/2006, 3:56 PM
A good exposition (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2496197,00.html) the GAA mindset when it comes to stadia. It seems they have no need for any more, and their current programme essentially is about bigging themselves up.
BohDiddley
10/12/2006, 4:08 PM
Complaining about a 12 million euro grant to build a 50,000 seater stadium is pitiful, the stadium will be at full capacity during an Ulster Final. No Eircom League club can even dream of recieving that sort of grant for a stadium as it would be uneconomical
You need to stop bleating about the b-word, and try grappling with some facts and the arguments around them. You might start with the post immediately above yours, which addresses the very point about the economic sense, or lack of it, of building more stadia for the GAA.
This thread is about what the GAA is attempting to do to football, a game struggling for its very survival in this country, and the blatantly unapologetic hostility that entails. I suggest that, if you want everyone to be nice, you start with them. Very few people who oppose the massive imbalance of subvention of GAA in general, and the Thomas Davis outrage in particular, are interested in fostering hostility between codes for its own sake.
As for those horrible expressions you refer to, if all the GAA ever did was dream up not-nice words to characterise football, that would represent a century's or so progress.
If Thomas Davis get away with this in Tallaght then other clubs could be next.
eL people do not not generally complain about GAA funding such as Croke Park as long the eL & FAI get their fair share too.
As soon as eL clubs get a few quid from the government the GAA are the ones who criticising...
:rolleyes:
BohDiddley
10/12/2006, 5:11 PM
Where is the economic sense in drogheda building a 10,000 seater stadium when, according to this site, their average attendance last year was 1751?
Here (http://bohsnews.crispynews.com/article/show/46586), as it happens.
They recognise that gates cover only 20% of costs, so they are integrating other leisure and commercial facilities, the better to support the game. And fair dues to them.
I don't think they'll be expecting 12 big ones from John O'Donoghue as of right though, do you?
GavinZac
10/12/2006, 5:29 PM
Ok, you've got me there, and fair dues to them! But as regards to Flancare Park what about that?
Well I'd expect Drogheda to gain a fair amount in grants from the minister due to the leisure and commercial facilities. The Drogheda board will get a grant from the Government, how much of the stadium will be funded by the F.A.I? Little I'd say, but maybe you can prove me wrong! Where-as, the 12 million will not build the stadium in Monaghan, the rest will come fron the G.A.A!
the rest will come from property developers, happy to pay for land the GAA was given.
GavinZac
10/12/2006, 6:09 PM
Where is this coming from? The stadium in Monaghan is not being sold, its being redeveloped.
From the Monaghan County Chairman, "We would hope that the government would come up with funding in the region of €12 million, and that the bulk of the remaining outlay would be provided by grants from the GAA and Ulster Council"thought you were talking about a different one, apologies.
Provide a link please, because nobody else has
From an E-mail sent in September 2005 by David Kennedy of Thomas Davis to Dublin County Board secretary John Costello - and seen by the Irish Independent:
"I'm confident that in any bout with Rovers that the GAA will be the last man standing"
Complaining about a 12 million euro grant to build a 50,000 seater stadium is pitiful, the stadium will be at full capacity during an Ulster Final!
Whoopee!!! Full once a year!!! What a fantastic use of government funds!!! And what's the new stadium on the Maze Prison site supposed to be for??? It will be GAA compatible - so what will that be used for???
Building stadiums such as the new one in Monaghan isn't about filling a need - it's about the GAA using government funds to sponsor their hate-filled crusade to crush "foreign" sports in Ireland. Grabbing the lion's share of the funding means that the "foreign" sports don't get it.
CollegeTillIDie
10/12/2006, 6:46 PM
I've been doing that for donkey's years. They haven't noticed. :(
Well there were a lot of Rovers fans who used to also support the Dubs perhaps if a bloc of Rovers fans, Pat's Fans, UCD Fans, Shels fans and your own Bohs fans were to do it , they might take notice.
Well there were a lot of Rovers fans who used to also support the Dubs
Not any more. And as long as this farce continues, many Rovers fans won't be going to soccer matches in Croke Park either.
CollegeTillIDie
10/12/2006, 7:22 PM
khoop
I won't be going to soccer matches in Croke Park either, until Thomas Davis back off and leave the Hoops alone. And I don't even support Shamrock Rovers. However if Shamrock Rovers can do with my moral support at a time like this, then they will have it, because an attack on ANY EL club by the GAA is an attack on us all.
Tallaght Stadium should be for Shamrock Rovers and for soccer i.e. REAL football. If the Hoops decide to allow some other soccer team to share the facility then so much the better for the bank balance.
BohDiddley
10/12/2006, 7:39 PM
From an E-mail sent in September 2005 by David Kennedy of Thomas Davis to Dublin County Board secretary John Costello - and seen by the Irish Independent:
"I'm confident that in any bout with Rovers that the GAA will be the last man standing"
Link? Date? That quote should be up in lights.
mypost
11/12/2006, 1:31 AM
Best of luck to the GAA!
That stand/pitch should be for the whole Tallaght community and therefore cater for a range of sports, not just for the Shamrocks.
On our fight against the TD's, trust Bohs to go against the grain of unaminous support for us from the NL community. :rolleyes:
but there seems to be a thing on this board that if somethings wrong its the gaas fault(rovers are right here though)!
But in this case it is the GAA's fault ffs. Thomas Davis are a GAA club who, with the support of the GAA as an organisation, are trying to block a sports facility for the people of Tallaght simply to stop Shamrock Rovers playing in the area. You continue to defend them, and continue to ignore the point as to do so would be to admit that the GAA is in the wrong.
BohDiddley
11/12/2006, 9:29 AM
here it is (http://www.cademuir.eu/archives/2006/03/the_gaaliban_at_it_again.html)
Thanks. Here it is (http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1584621&issue_id=13829) in the Indo. Ironically, they also want a Prime Time special on the subject, or an Oireachtas Committee! Hopefully any such investigation would deliver a total balance sheet on public funding of GAA v other sports.
'... the GAA clubs do not appear to be for turning if a line from an email sent last September by David Kennedy of Thomas Davis to Dublin County Board secretary John Costello, and seen by the Irish Independent, is anything to go by.
"I'm confident that in any nbout (sic) with Rovers that the GAA will be the last man standing," wrote Kennedy.'
GuisaSaigon
11/12/2006, 10:29 AM
a bit off topic but heres another GAA bigot talking rubbish about soccer "on their patch"http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=70067
I reckon the FAI are well aware of the all Ireland club fights and wouldnt dream of asking them to change from Paddys day. As for "triumphalism" , ............... woo hoo ! were going to play in Croke Park :rolleyes: .............get over it.
khoop
11/12/2006, 11:51 AM
a bit off topic but heres another GAA bigot talking rubbish about soccer "on their patch"
Saw that. Absolute rubbish. But the problem is, it's deliberately rabble-rousing. The normal GAA heads believe that kind of crap and regard it has hard evidence of how terrible the FAI is.
NY Hoop
11/12/2006, 11:54 AM
A statement that is wrong on so many levels!
and the sad thing is YOU know it too!
With a signature like that:rolleyes: Go away minnow. Anybody who is not backing Rovers in this mess has no interest in the sport in this country. They dont have a case. End of.
KOH
BohsFans
11/12/2006, 12:16 PM
With a signature like that:rolleyes: Go away minnow. Anybody who is not backing Rovers in this mess has no interest in the sport in this country. They dont have a case. End of.
KOH
What's the problem with my signature?
We are recognised as the big club whether you like it or not! :)
Now off to buy that new car in Airton! :p
chippie0001
11/12/2006, 12:44 PM
In fairness there are 2 sides to the story and people seem to only see one side. Soccer has no right to expect stadia to be built for them for nothing that other sports cannot use. Like it or not we are a minority sport here at that level. The GAA get large grants but also plough millions of their own money into stadia, we spend all our money and more on players and neglect our stadia. That is our fault, clubs could get grants for donkeys years if they inject some of their own cash but they don't, they prefer to spend it on players. Look at Rovers, they got over a million in grants that went on the first team. We have to look at ourselves before we criticise other bodies. Public money should be used for the public benefit, and it can be argued that a team that get 2,000 every second week is a good use of money. Thats side one. In the view of the GAA, soccer is getting a 100% funded stadium from lottery and government funds, something they never get.
The other side is that the GAA don't need Tallaght, only want to waste time in the hope that Rovers will fold. They have plenty of sites and space about the place to build a venue on the soutside if they so choose. TD seem to think that its a them or us situation and obviously fear losing that battle. I tend to think that this is the main reason why they are doing this and thats wrong and I hope they lose in court and the stadium proceeds.
However people need to look at this neutrally and not with rose tinted glasses on. The GAA are not 100% to blame in this mess either.
In the view of the GAA, soccer is getting a 100% funded stadium from lottery and government funds, something they never get.
So they'll presumably be looking for the national aquatic centre to be changed to conform with their pitch dimensions too?
However people need to look at this neutrally and not with rose tinted glasses on. The GAA are not 100% to blame in this mess either
Well it's easy to pontificate when your club has just sold a ground for tens of millions that was originally acquired for a few shillings. Nice money if you can get it.
If Rovers hadn't been raped by Kilcoyne - and if we still had Milltown - we'd be the richest club in the country asset-wise.
The GAA are 100% to blame on this because they are trying to prevent Rovers setting up in Tallaght for their own selfish reasons. They do NOT need the stadium and never have done. They wouldn't care less if it never got built, which is why they continue to drag the saga out for as long as possible.
I don't swim. So the national aqautic centre is no use to me.
I detest horses. So McCreavey's Punchestown project is no use to me.
I've only a passing interest in golf. So the millions spent around the Ryder Cup seemed wasteful to me.
I hate GAA. So the 180 million euros of government money spent on Croke Park is no use to me. Not to mention the tens of millions spent on other GAA stadiums and clubs every year.
But can I do anything about it???
No.
NY Hoop
11/12/2006, 2:27 PM
We are recognised as the big club whether you like it or not! :)
By whom?
Chippie there are 2 sides to every story. Their case is small minded rubbish: "people of Tallaght being fed on a diet of association football" just one of many memorable quotes they have come out.
They have a ground already. We dont. They have 26 acres in Rathcoole etc etc.
KOH
osarusan
11/12/2006, 2:41 PM
The GAA are 100% to blame on this because they are trying to prevent Rovers setting up in Tallaght for their own selfish reasons. They do NOT need the stadium and never have done. They wouldn't care less if it never got built, which is why they continue to drag the saga out for as long as possible.
I don't swim. So the national aqautic centre is no use to me.
I detest horses. So McCreavey's Punchestown project is no use to me.
I've only a passing interest in golf. So the millions spent around the Ryder Cup seemed wasteful to me.
I hate GAA. So the 180 million euros of government money spent on Croke Park is no use to me. Not to mention the tens of millions spent on other GAA stadiums and clubs every year.
But can I do anything about it???
No.
To be fair, you are not painting a picture of yourself as the most objective thinker on this whole topic....................shouldnt you at least try to be objective?
By your rationale, why should any other club care about what happens to Rovers??
BohDiddley
11/12/2006, 3:36 PM
However people need to look at this neutrally
I disagree. When was the last time the GAA or its agents in sports administration and government in this country acted neutrally? The one time a Minister says no to them, we have merry hell.
It's high time football started to fight its corner, especially when we can all see the GAA mentality that is driving this. Many people want to appease the GAA, principally because they happen to be followers of the two codes. But the GAA, by its actions and statements, is forcing people to choose.
Others among us may be in the comfortable (and in my view extremely providential) position of never having even been tempted to follow Gaelic football, but that's irrelevant.
On Thomas Davis, you are either for football or for GAA. There is no middle ground.
Billy Lord
11/12/2006, 4:09 PM
Why should Shamrock Rovers look neutrally when someone's trying to kll our club?
When the head of Thomas Davis says that in a battle between the GAA and Shamrock Rovers that the GAA will be the last man standing - which he did, and that's a fact - then it's quite clear that those bigoted *******s are out to kill SRFC.
Unfortunately for the bogballers and stickfighters, that ain't going to happen. We'll see them and their evil empire down first. And that's a promise.
GavinZac
11/12/2006, 7:54 PM
Why should Shamrock Rovers look neutrally when someone's trying to kll our club?
When the head of Thomas Davis says that in a battle between the GAA and Shamrock Rovers that the GAA will be the last man standing - which he did, and that's a fact - then it's quite clear that those bigoted *******s are out to kill SRFC.
Unfortunately for the bogballers and stickfighters, that ain't going to happen. We'll see them and their evil empire down first. And that's a promise.
we need to convince abramovich to set up a rival gaelic games federation, paying fair wages for professional gaelic athletes, just to crush the GAA. he'll get bored eventually and move on, and step forth the eircom league!
BohsFans
12/12/2006, 2:46 PM
By whom?
KOH
:rolleyes:
who's gonna tell him?
WeAreRovers
12/12/2006, 3:16 PM
:rolleyes:
who's gonna tell him?
I will - by about 300 deluded drunks in the Long Bar in Dalymount. :rolleyes:
KOH
NY Hoop
12/12/2006, 3:17 PM
I will - by about 300 deluded drunks in the Long Bar in Dalymount. :rolleyes:
KOH
300 is a bit high no?
KOH
WeAreRovers
12/12/2006, 3:19 PM
300 is a bit high no?
KOH
Only realised that after I'd posted. Bearing in mind that most gypos of my acquaintance were never under that delusion I'd say knock a zero off.
KOH
BohsFans
12/12/2006, 3:27 PM
it's called a hyperlink, use it! :rolleyes:
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