View Full Version : Galway promoted - Setanta's mistake
Not a hope Galway will be promoted if the criteria are implemented as they have been laid out.
The difference off the field is not big enough to overcome UCD Bray or Waterford with their on the field rankings
Conor H
05/12/2006, 4:24 PM
Not a hope Galway will be promoted if the criteria are implemented as they have been laid out.
The difference off the field is not big enough to overcome UCD Bray or Waterford with their on the field rankings
I beg to differ. (http://www.foot.ie/showpost.php?p=586537&postcount=2)
I'm confident we'll be in it next Monday.
The way i look at it Bray are our main contenders for the 12th spot.
We have 267 points for on the Field and Bray have 333.(not 100% definite).
The way i see it you can add at least 400 onto that for us which brings us to 667.Bray need to get 335 to outscore us by a point.You might think that's easy enough but i reckon they'll fall down on
-Marketing
-Attendances
-Geographical spread(they're preety much a suburb of Dublin)
-Youth Developement??
-Strategic Planning
For those reasons i see plenty of scope for optimism especially considering we could quite easily get more than 400 in the off the field Criteria.
I think there is a bigger gap than that in the on the field rankings. I dont have time to work them out now but the difference in position for the last 4 years make it seem like there are more.
Why do you think ye will beat Bray in marketing, attendences, youth development or strategic planning? Or is it just guesswork. id say ye would be very close on all of the above.
Yes ye would have the upperhand on geographical location but that is only worth 10% of the off the field on a sliding scale.
Theres not much point arguing about this but honestly cant see ye overtaking them.
Well see Monday then one of us can say I told you so :)
Poor Student
06/12/2006, 3:27 PM
2.We're kept in the 1st Divison and consequently will be forced to endure the sickening glee from lim till i Die,Jebus and a few UCD fans.
Why glee? If the process deems us worthy of the new super duper league that will just be a fortunate coincidence. It won't stop the process from big a big load of b0llocks and I won't be celebrating.
It ha. But that wasn't the issue at hand. The issue was why Galway are so happy to ignore what is clearly a travesty of sporting principles. Your reply is utterly meaningless in that regard.
[BTW - the whole "We don't have to explain/justify anything to any of yee" - very Shels...]
You can't blame Galway Utd if they get an advantage from this situation. All the clubs agreed that a new division would be created and teams that met on-field and off the field criteria would be in the Premier division.
The situation could have arose where United won the league and did not get promoted and if that happened they would not be moaning about being hard done by.
Of course this method is against basic sporting principles but when all parties involved agreed to this procedure then nobody has a right to cry when it doesn't go their way.
pineapple stu
06/12/2006, 4:47 PM
Of course this method is against basic sporting principles but when all parties involved agreed to this procedure then nobody has a right to cry when it doesn't go their way.
I don't think all parties agree - I see the vast majority of supporters here opposed to the idea, for example. Rather an important party, to be honest, and given that supporters didn't vote for the proposals, we're entitled to complain if it doesn't go our way.
Complain all you like, it won't change a thing
dublinred
06/12/2006, 6:06 PM
I think the whole criteria are a bit of a joke as they don't take into account clubs sorting themselves out off the pitch while in the first divsion such as Sligo and Galway whereas a club living beyond their means in the premier division seems to be ok , are Dublin Citys results from the last 5 years excluded?
pineapple stu
06/12/2006, 11:30 PM
Complain all you like
Thank you; I believe I shall.
Do you see how every club can be "in favour" of the proposals and yet how that doesn't mean fans have to be in favour?
inthestand99
07/12/2006, 1:35 AM
Word on the street from the heads at the u 21 final.... The Eleven that are there now plus Rovers, and Wexford to join the first division. Mick Wallace is the sugardaddy in Wex.
Thank you; I believe I shall.
Do you see how every club can be "in favour" of the proposals and yet how that doesn't mean fans have to be in favour?
It doesn't matter if the fans aren't in favour.It's too late. If the fans had a problem with it they should have made it known to the club officials before a decision was taken to sign up to the league.At this stage it's all hot air.Some clubs will lose out, that's just tough ****.
Regardless of whether certain fans agree with it or not you still can't blame a particular club if they get promoted.United didn't invent the rules and as the table shows below they have far from qualified yet.
This was in the Mirror today:
Marks out of 500 for sporting criteria 2002-2006:
1. Shels 493
2. Cork 460
2. Derry 460
4. Drogheda 437
5. Longford 430
6. Bohemains 420
7. St Pats 410
8. Shamrock Rovers 380
9. UCD 370
10. Sligo 340
11. Waterford 337
12. Bray 333
13 Finn Harps 283
14 Galway Utd 260
15. Cobh, Limerick, Dundalk 247
Dj Duffer
07/12/2006, 11:07 AM
Im not believing anything till monday, the amount of rumours going around is unreall.. And plus its the mirror!
Patrick Dunne
07/12/2006, 11:45 AM
I can't see us gaining 73 points out of 500 over Bray Wanderers. We possibly will catch Harps - 23 points not a huge gap.
pineapple stu
07/12/2006, 12:24 PM
It doesn't matter if the fans aren't in favour.
Didn't know you worked for the FAI.
If the fans had a problem with it they should have made it known to the club officials before a decision was taken to sign up to the league.
It was made known. However, the fact that the clubs were effectively bullied into voting this in doesn't in the least mean that we all have to think it's a great idea, which is what the original point was.
DotTV
07/12/2006, 12:53 PM
Any proof of this "bullying" Pineapple?
Patrick, Utd are fairly on the ball for the off the field activities.I'd say they'd be near the top of the points for that.
I haven't a clue what kind of state Bray are in but 73 points isn't an insurmountable gap by any means.
Also what kind of a league is it going to be with at least 5 teams from Dublin?
Patrick Dunne
07/12/2006, 12:55 PM
If the representative of UCD voted for a proposal that he and his club were opposed to, the only conclusion one can come to is that he is not very bright.
Bray appear to be a reasonably well run club. They are never in financial trouble, never seem to be involved in embarrassing "brushes for corner flags" type incidents, have improved their ground this season, and seem to have decent enough attendances.
We will be doing well to score effectively 15% higher than them for off-field criteria.
pineapple stu
07/12/2006, 12:55 PM
Only what various club officials from various clubs have told me. Nothing in writing unfortunately, so you can believe it or not - I don't really care. Doesn't change the reality of it.
Edit - good man Patrick. Hope you looked before you leapt at that conclusion. How about the fact that we weren't willing to jeopardise E1.25m of grant funding which was announced the week after the vote? How about the fact that if we voted against the FAI, the FAI would remember that in times to come? Do you think 99.99% of Iraqi voters favoured Saddam Hussein?
Get a grip stu your moaning is unbelievable.I dont know one way or the other whether were going up but if we dont we have a plan b in place which will be implemented on Tuesday night and then the real work starts.
Conor H
07/12/2006, 1:06 PM
Only what various club officials from various clubs have told me. Nothing in writing unfortunately, so you can believe it or not - I don't really care. Doesn't change the reality of it.
Edit - good man Patrick. Hope you looked before you leapt at that conclusion. How about the fact that we weren't willing to jeopardise E1.25m of grant funding which was announced the week after the vote? How about the fact that if we voted against the FAI, the FAI would remember that in times to come? Do you think 99.99% of Iraqi voters favoured Saddam Hussein?
Comparing UCD voting for the proposals of the FAI and the Iraqi people voting for Sadamm is a tad over dramatic.:rolleyes:
pineapple stu
07/12/2006, 1:07 PM
Of course, it's just nonsensical moaning. :rolleyes:
See, this is what the original query was about. This is one of the most stupid things the FAI has ever done, with absolutely no back up that it'll work, no proper plan in place to make it work, clearly against all sporting principles, talk about favours from the FAI and leaked information which could set some clubs back years, people talking about legal challenges everywhere and Galway fans - almost exclusively Galway fans - think that everyone's only having an aul moan.
Conor H - care to back up your comment? I've outlined the comparisons quite clearly.
Patrick Dunne
07/12/2006, 1:07 PM
As bad as they are, I don't think they FAI would ever use chemical gas in the leafy suburbs of South Dublin, thus precipitating an American invasion of the area.
Conor H
07/12/2006, 1:11 PM
Of course, it's just nonsensical moaning. :rolleyes:
Conor H - care to back up your comment? I've outlined the comparisons quite clearly.
I think PD sums it up well.
Stu It's not our fault we may benefit from the new proposals.Such an Irish thing.....when someone does something wright certain elements get upset.I haven't a notion of argueing with ya....i'm gonna try and remain quiet on foot.ie for a while.:)
Also what kind of a league is it going to be with at least 5 teams from Dublin?
a normal one !
Do you think 99.99% of Iraqi voters favoured Saddam Hussein?
they would now !!!!
Pineapple, your original comment was this:
"The issue was why Galway are so happy to ignore what is clearly a travesty of sporting principles."
Regardless of whether certain supporters didn't want this, or if the FAI put pressure on clubs to sign up or UCD didn't object for political reasons, it is unfair to single out Galway Utd when every club(for whatever reasons) have agreed and accepted the terms surrounding the creation of this new league.
DmanDmythDledge
07/12/2006, 4:04 PM
If the representative of UCD voted for a proposal that he and his club were opposed to, the only conclusion one can come to is that he is not very bright.
The only problem with that is that no grant money meant no stadium which would have meant losing marks in the criteria.
pineapple stu
07/12/2006, 4:43 PM
Pineapple, your original comment was this:
"The issue was why Galway are so happy to ignore what is clearly a travesty of sporting principles."
Regardless of whether certain supporters didn't want this, or if the FAI put pressure on clubs to sign up or UCD didn't object for political reasons, it is unfair to single out Galway Utd when every club(for whatever reasons) have agreed and accepted the terms surrounding the creation of this new league.
But you're again completely overlooking the point. Galway fans are about the only ones who seem to think this is a great thing altogether, when it's clearly boll*x (regardless of whether you're going to stay down, stay up or get moved division). It's quite fair to single Galway fans out when Galway fans are the vast majority of those making positive soundings about this, and knocking those who (quite justifiably) criticise the whole thing as a farce.
I think PD sums it up well.
Stu It's not our fault we may benefit from the new proposals.Such an Irish thing.....when someone does something wright certain elements get upset.I haven't a notion of argueing with ya....i'm gonna try and remain quiet on foot.ie for a while.:)
When someone does something wright (sic!!)? Who did anything right here? Do you think the proposals are correct? The Genesis Report? I'm confused here.
PD doesn't sum it up well. He picks one thing Saddam did and notes how the league didn't do it, and therefore there's no link. People voted for Saddam because they were afraid of what would happen to them personally if they didn't. Ditto here.
corbyeire
07/12/2006, 4:52 PM
without going crazily off topic - and this one has gone off topic already - way more iraqi civilians are dead now since march 2003 than ever under sadam
this is a terrible analogy - and collectively we are all wasting our time talking about it and particularly going off on tangents
lets just wait til monday - its going to happen - no matter what we say now
pineapple stu
07/12/2006, 4:53 PM
And way more Irish football clubs are dead now since March 03 than in the previous 20 years. What's your point?
I countered your point earlier - just because you can show one difference between two things doesn't mean they don't function as an analogy. Didn't think someone would be quite as stupid as to make a point which had already been countered...
corbyeire
07/12/2006, 5:37 PM
yea you are still countering, thats my point - why dont you just leave it
It's quite fair to single Galway fans out
Bull, if you knew anything a vast majority of galway fans are for the league being sorted out on the pitch ! so dont go painting all the GUFC fans with the same brush, your talking out your arse there mate! Its just that we are living with what has been put forward by the FAI that ye have a problem with, we dont all agree with it.
pineapple stu
08/12/2006, 12:51 PM
yea you are still countering, that's my point
:confused:
That wasn't your point at all! You point was that "that's a crazy analogy" before failing completely in your efforts to back that up.
Bull, if you knew anything a vast majority of galway fans are for the league being sorted out on the pitch !
Maybe, but that wasn't what I said. I said the majority of those who were happy about the proposals were Galway fans - different thing entirely.
Another who should be looking before jumping to conclusions.
The only fans who have been whinging are in the Majority UCD Fans I wonder why.
DmanDmythDledge
08/12/2006, 1:09 PM
The only fans who have been whinging are in the Majority UCD Fans I wonder why.
Firstly you'll find that that isn't true. The fact that UCD fans are critical of the new proposals is irrrelevant- the propasals will not affect UCD at all.
I said the majority of those who were happy about the proposals were Galway fans - different thing entirely.
.
and are the majority of GUFC fans happy? NO, they have come to live with it though, 2 very different things there!
Poor Student
08/12/2006, 1:31 PM
the propasals will not affect UCD at all.
Do you know something I don't?:confused:
Student Mullet
08/12/2006, 1:36 PM
The only fans who have been whinging are in the Majority UCD Fans I wonder why.Because Pineapple is a UCD fan and he does enough whinging for a lot of us.
DmanDmythDledge
08/12/2006, 1:45 PM
Do you know something I don't?:confused:
It's obvious looking at the criteria that UCD will be staying up.
Poor Student
08/12/2006, 1:50 PM
It's obvious looking at the criteria that UCD will be staying up.
I wouldn't assume that.
DmanDmythDledge
08/12/2006, 1:55 PM
I wouldn't assume that.
Well look at it this way- UCD fall down on 10% of the criteria. Finn Harps and Galway fall down on 50% of the criteria. There is no chance of either of them being ranked above us. Bray as well for that matter.
Student Mullet
08/12/2006, 1:56 PM
For us to go down both Galway and Bray would have to catch us. One might but I doubt both will.
Conor H
08/12/2006, 1:59 PM
Well look at it this way- UCD fall down on 10% of the criteria. Finn Harps and Galway fall down on 50% of the criteria. There is no chance of either of them being ranked above us. Bray as well for that matter.
Wrong.
We don't completely fall down by 50%....it's not as rosy as you make it out to be.UCD will more than likely be in the Premier next year.Bray are certainly not definites.
Also why Harps?Thye have no chance....they didn't even get a Premier License.
DmanDmythDledge
08/12/2006, 2:05 PM
Wrong.
We don't completely fall down by 50%....it's not as rosy as you make it out to be.UCD will more than likely be in the Premier next year.Bray are certainly not definites.
Also why Harps?Thye have no chance....they didn't even get a Premier License.
I wasn't saying that Galway completely fall down by 50%- I meant that they are weakest in the category where the most marks are going. Apologies for confusion.
I mentioned Harps because they are 13th in the on the field criteria. I wasn't aware they didn't get a Premier license.
Poor Student
08/12/2006, 2:05 PM
Well look at it this way- UCD fall down on 10% of the criteria. Finn Harps and Galway fall down on 50% of the criteria. There is no chance of either of them being ranked above us. Bray as well for that matter.
The gap between UCD and Galway isn't that big off the field. If they beat us well in attendances and demographics then they only have to beat us by a bit in every criteria. For whatever reason Galway seem to be lauded for everything by Genesis and officials. I'm not going to be smug and I'm not going to assume we can keep our noses in front of them.
Maybe the reason is we are trying to do things the right way but after the fudging over the licencing fiasco i wouldnt trust either the el or Fai to go by the book this time.
pineapple stu
08/12/2006, 5:55 PM
and are the majority of GUFC fans happy? NO, they have come to live with it though, 2 very different things there!
Good man Terry. You make a point, I say it's completely different to what I was saying and point out why, and you make the same point again!
The only fans who have been whinging are in the Majority UCD Fans I wonder why.
Do you want me to show you posts from Longford, Drogheda, Bohs, Limerick, etc fans who are against this and are making the same comments I am?
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