Make up of new league announced in The Sun [Archive]

DmanDmythDledge

20/11/2006, 11:57 AM

In The Sun (not sure if it was today or over the weeked) the make up of the league was announced. I'm not sure if it was leaked or if the person who wrote the article was saying what he thought would happen as I didn't actually see the article. All I know is that UCD were down as 13th.

There could be a chance that it could be leaked as Waterford seem to know for 100% that they will be in the Premier next year. Did anybody see the article?

pineapple stu

20/11/2006, 12:28 PM

Nothing in today's Sun anyway.

dcfcsteve

20/11/2006, 12:32 PM

Would't surprise me if, when push came to shove, Delaney tried to ensure his team made the cut (sorry - Waterford, that is, not Man Ure...)

Would UCD look to do an Olly and head for the courts if they didn't get in ?

pineapple stu

20/11/2006, 12:37 PM

Not sure. On the one hand, if we go down, we'll come straight back up again, winning E50k prize money (more than what we'd get in the Premier) and possibly qualifying for the Setanta. On the other hand, there's no club better connected with the legal profession than ourselves, given that we have former managers and former committee members among others who run their own law firms.

pineapple stu

20/11/2006, 12:42 PM

I think somebody may be winding you up as if there was something leaked somebody would have spotted it and there would a new thread
Yeah, think so alright.

Ridiculous that nobody knows what the hell is going on though.

Peadar

20/11/2006, 1:02 PM

We're not meant to know until early December anyway.
As far as I'm concerned, the teams that will make up the bottom half of the league are irrelevant. It's the promotion of the new league and how it will be run, which concern me.

pineapple stu

20/11/2006, 2:28 PM

As far as I'm concerned, the teams that will make up the bottom half of the league are irrelevant.
That's why we're wondering about UCD. The league table may have escaped your attention for the last while.

bigmac

20/11/2006, 2:43 PM

There could be a chance that it could be leaked as Waterford seem to know for 100% that they will be in the Premier next year. Did anybody see the article?

That hasn't been the vibe around the club until now to be fair. And as for preferential treatment from Delaney - we wish! I think if WUFC make it it'll be because of a relatively large catchment area with not much competition.

harps1954

20/11/2006, 2:45 PM

Based on the FAI's merger document, to me this is how things stand at present in relation to the 50% on the field scoring (500 points). I have assumed Waterford will win the play-off. However, it Dundalk were to win the play-off, Waterford would fall one place to 11 with 340 points and Dundalk would move ahead of Limerick to 15th place to 247 points.

In relation to the Cup Final, if Derry win the Cup and Waterford win the play-off the table remains as below. However, if St. Pat's win the Cup, they would stay in 7th but move up to 420 points and Cork's total would change to 453 as they would fall a place on this season's league table (when Cups, europe, etc. are taken into consideration). Basically, not a lot of change based on the FAI Cup final and the play-offs.

Hopefully the above makes a bit of sense to everyone.

I still think the top 12 as they sit will still be the top 12 after the off-the-field points are added. However Waterford, Sligo & Bray are the clubs most at risk of losing their Premier Division status with Harps and Galway in my opinion the only two first division clubs (in addition to Shamrock Rovers) the only ones likely to have any chance of upsetting the odds and getting a place in the Premier. I think the 9 clubs from UCD upwards are safe enough. It's going to be hard for the likes of Galway or Harps to outscore UCD by 100 points (out of 500 on offer) in the off-the-field criteria.

1. Shelbourne 493
2. Derry City 460
3. Cork City 460
4. Drogheda United 437
5. Longford Town 430
6. Bohemains 423
7. St. Patrick's Athletic 407
8. Shamrock Rovers 377
9. UCD 370
10. Waterford United 347
11. Sligo Rovers 343
12. Bray Wanderers 333
13. Finn Harps 283
14. Galway United 267
15. Limerick 243
16. Dundalk 240
17. Cobh Ramblers 240
18. Kildare County 230
19. Kilkenny City 177
20. Athlone Town 177
21. Monaghan United 173

DmanDmythDledge

20/11/2006, 2:53 PM

1. Shelbourne 493
2. Derry City 460
3. Cork City 460
4. Drogheda United 437
5. Longford Town 430
6. Bohemains 423
7. St. Patrick's Athletic 407
8. Shamrock Rovers 377
9. UCD 370
10. Waterford United 347
11. Sligo Rovers 343
12. Bray Wanderers 333
13. Finn Harps 283
14. Galway United 267
15. Limerick 243
16. Dundalk 240
17. Cobh Ramblers 240
18. Kildare County 230
19. Kilkenny City 177
20. Athlone Town 177
21. Monaghan United 173
They are not the points that go towards the calculation of the final mark. Points are awarded on a sliding scale to each team. Basically there are 200points for the on-the-field criteria for this season. The team in first place will get 200, second 190, etc, and likewise for every other category in the proposals.

bigmac

20/11/2006, 2:58 PM

harps1954

20/11/2006, 2:59 PM

They are not the points that go towards the calculation of the final mark. Points are awarded on a sliding scale to each team. Basically there are 200points for the on-the-field criteria for this season. The team in first place will get 200, second 190, etc, and likewise for every other category in the proposals.

These are the points (by my calculations) that will go towards the final mark. You are correct in saying that there are 200 points for the on-the-field critera for this season. First place was Derry City who get 200 points (based on their cup, league and european records), shels get 193 points for second and so on. But add Derry's 200 points from this year and their 260 points from their previous 4 year record and you get their total of 460 points. There was a total of 200 points for this season and 300 points for the previous four seasons. Based on the FAI merger document which was on the FAI website up until a few weeks ago, the points on the table on my post above are by my reckoning accurate. These points, along with whatever the IAG score each club out of 500 will be added together and the top 12 scoring clubs will be the ones who should be offered the 12 place in the Premiership next season.

gufct

20/11/2006, 3:56 PM

just to reall get you all arguing with clubs like Athlone and Harps both doing major ground developments I actually passed Athlones today and well done to all concerned it all looks fantastic why not do what i consider the sensible thing and have a 16 team premier with clubs who fulfill all the licencing criteria taking part.

Peadar

20/11/2006, 4:02 PM

...why not do what i consider the sensible thing and have a 16 team premier with clubs who fulfill all the licencing criteria taking part.

What do you propose we do with the remaining clubs?

gufct

20/11/2006, 4:07 PM

Invite new clubs to apply for entry with a stipulation that they are from counties who dont have an el team already and definitely no new clubs from an lar.

pineapple stu

20/11/2006, 4:43 PM

definitely no new clubs from an lar.
No clubs from the town centres? Bit harsh; hardly going to get places with a team playing out in the middle of the country with no-one around for miles.

swano

20/11/2006, 5:01 PM

If UCD aren't in the top division next year it would be a disgrace.

One of the main reasons for the FAI taking over is appearantly to ensure that things are run properly. UCD are one of the few clubs that have been run properly over the last few years and haven't run into some kind of financial/administrative problems. If the new criteria for making the top league rule UCD out then I think the system is completely flawed (or even more flawed than most of us originally thought).

passerrby

20/11/2006, 5:25 PM

I still think the top 12 as they sit will still be the top 12 after the off-the-field points are added. However Waterford, Sligo & Bray are the clubs most at risk of losing their Premier Division status with Harps and Galway in my opinion the only two first division clubs (in addition to Shamrock Rovers) the only ones likely to have any chance of upsetting the odds and getting a place in the Premier. I think the 9 clubs from UCD upwards are safe enough. It's going to be hard for the likes of Galway or Harps to outscore UCD by 100 points (out of 500 on offer) in the off-the-field criteria.[/QUOTE]

you were making sense until you mentioned harps as a possible contender that is just no possible

Jerry The Saint

20/11/2006, 5:36 PM

you were making sense until you mentioned harps as a possible contender that is just no possible

Under the zany terms of membership it would certainly seem to be possible. I agree that it's hard to leave aside the logical idea that Galway and Dundalk would have a better chance, but Harps will pick up plenty of points for location and new stadium plans. Losing at the weekend could well prove to be more important than the outcome of the upcoming play-offs.

1. Shelbourne 493
2. Derry City 460
3. Cork City 460
4. Drogheda United 437
5. Longford Town 430
6. Bohemains 423
7. St. Patrick's Athletic 407
8. Shamrock Rovers 377
9. UCD 370
10. Waterford United 347
11. Sligo Rovers 343
12. Bray Wanderers 333
13. Finn Harps 283
14. Galway United 267
15. Limerick 243
16. Dundalk 240
17. Cobh Ramblers 240
18. Kildare County 230
19. Kilkenny City 177
20. Athlone Town 177
21. Monaghan United 173

Mr A

20/11/2006, 5:36 PM

Harps sit in 13th place after the 50% based on football are counted up, why wouldn't it make sense for us to be a contender?

fbtn

20/11/2006, 6:30 PM

you were making sense until you mentioned harps as a possible contender that is just no possible

I still can't believe that so many people seem to know nothing about this process. Dundalk were never going to get promoted this year, even had they won the First Division. Their record this last four years is dreadful.

Our four year record includes 12th in the Premier in 2005, First Division winners (2004), third place and playoff final (2003-04), runners up and playoff semi-final (2003).

Compare that with the likes of Dundalk or Galway and we've a decent enough four year record. Sligo's great placing this season will have saved them as their four year record wasn't good either. UCD and Bray's were quite similar to our own.

If we had of had a half decent finish this year, we'd probably have got in. Even third would probably have been enough for us. As I see it, we don't deserve it anyway as our showings this year have been downright embarrasing. We have fallen a long way.

BTW Monaghan dude. The mere fact that senior football survives at all in Monaghan should leave you believing that anything is possible regarding football in this league.

:D

mypost

20/11/2006, 7:46 PM

I have assumed Waterford will win the play-off.

Dundalk will in all likelihood win the play-off, as they are the better side. The result however is likely to make little difference, as Drogheda and Dundalk are from the same county, and in that case, will be no contest as regards which of them qualifies next year, and who doesn't imo.

Mr A

20/11/2006, 7:51 PM

Dundalk will in all likelihood win the play-off, as they are the better side. The result however is likely to make little difference, as Drogheda and Dundalk are from the same county, and in that case, will be no contest as regards which of them qualifies next year, and who doesn't.

Only 10% goes for target market etc, so even if that were a problem it wouldn't have a huge impact. What messes Dundalk up is the 30% for 4 year record.

oriel

20/11/2006, 8:49 PM

There is no argument that the prev 3 seasons prior to this one, we were shocking, pure and utter rubbish, I cant even see a play off win saving us, for my money we had to win the lge to have any chance.

I hope I'm wrong though.................

sconn

20/11/2006, 9:09 PM

i think galway have a ok chance because their location is good and their well organised offf the pitch and not so bad on the pitch :) :cool: :D

fbtn

20/11/2006, 9:57 PM

I cant see Harps being in the top divison even though i would love to see it and hope i am wrong i think it will be the 11 that is there now plus Shams.

I agree.

This season killed us.

Our four year record is okay, our off-field structures are not bad, new stadium, big enough crowds when we're going well and I'm hoping that with a few decent signings that we can bounce straight back up next year.

All depends who will be in charge of us though.

CollegeTillIDie

21/11/2006, 7:03 AM

I agree.

This season killed us.

Our four year record is okay, our off-field structures are not bad, new stadium, big enough crowds when we're going well and I'm hoping that with a few decent signings that we can bounce straight back up next year.

All depends who will be in charge of us though.

The fall off in your home support this season, as shown in the attendance thread, is alarming though. People do not seem to be able to equate, not attending games at Finn Park in droves with, the financial problems experienced earlier in the season.

Mental Man

21/11/2006, 7:24 AM

The present 11 teams in the premiere will stay as they are for next season but they will be joined by Shamrock Rovers, thats my own info .

Conor H

21/11/2006, 7:30 AM

The present 11 teams in the premiere will stay as they are for next season but they will be joined by Shamrock Rovers, thats my own info .

Hense all Genesis's and the IAG's work will be irrelevant.I can't help think that the FAI will have one twist in it.
It's also funny how waterford are the only club who know what's going to happen.

Drogman.

21/11/2006, 10:26 AM

I'm not sure if this has happened elsewhere in the country but in the Drogheda Independant last week there was a job ad from the FAI for a Club Prmotions officer for Drogheda United.

The ad stated that the person will be involved in promoting Drogheda in the new Premiership next season with E180,000 budget.

Now my reading of the ad is that we are in this new top division next season so I'm wondering if similar ad's have been placed in other local papers?

Dodge

21/11/2006, 10:32 AM

Its €180,000 split between 10 clubs. Clubs can add to it to make a decent salary because they'll get nopbody qualified willing to work for €18k

harps1954

21/11/2006, 10:35 AM

Same ad was in the Donegal Democrat in relation to Harps last weekend. These ads were placed in the papers by the FAI and there will be funding of €15,000 per Premier Division club from the FAI for this post for next season. It is compulsory for each Premier Division club to have a Club Promotion Officer in place, but not compulsory for the First Division clubs. The €15,000 grant is only available to the Premier clubs.

I think the same ad as appeared in a lot more local papers in relation to the clubs in these areas. I'd imagine the Sligo Champion would have had one in relation to Sligo Rovers, etc.

passerrby

21/11/2006, 10:36 AM

let me tell you why, genisis was established to find the biggest and most progressive clubs and put them into a super league (I think the plan is badly flawed anyway) but with all the wishful thinking in the world you are neither, you may have ambitious plans but so does everybody else ,at present you have no seating capacity in your ground at present so where do you intend hosting your games until this new stadium is completed, your on chairman has stated that gates are very poor and summer football is slowly killing the club s

charliesboots

21/11/2006, 10:43 AM

This is the Prem I'd like to see, won't happen though:

Pats
Bohs
Rovers
Shels
Drogheda
Derry
Cork
Waterford
Galway
Harps
Sligo
Longford

Leaving First Division of:
Bray
UCD
Monaghan
Athlone
Limerick
Dundalk
Cobh
Kildare
Kilkenny
AN Other

Mr A

21/11/2006, 10:51 AM

Hense all Genesis's and the IAG's work will be irrelevant.I can't help think that the FAI will have one twist in it.

I think a lot of people felt that Genisis's contribution wasn't up to much quite soon after their report. It simply wasn't very good. Much of what it said was completely obvious and it certainly was not worth whatever was spent on it. Depressingly one of the best ideas- that of dual registration- has been ignored by the FAI.

However, while the IAG stuff may turn out to be irrelevant (especially as the FAI may choose to ignore it and cherry pick the teams regardless of what they recommend), I do think there are benefits. If it gets clubs thinking more strategically and thinking about planning and marketing then that has to be a good thing.

genisis was established to find the biggest and most progressive clubs and put them into a super league (I think the plan is badly flawed anyway)

I thought the idea was to improve the league overall, not simply to set up a super league?

Duffman

21/11/2006, 12:56 PM

Whatever about Dundalk not making it, our recent footballing record will prevent that it is massively unfair on UCD if they have to drop a division. I understand the whole process and the points allocation but they at least had a go this year. I can't believe a club the size and history of Waterford only get a final point score of 12. Were they not trying or had they written the season off halfd way through?