Setanta Cup

[David]

Am I correct in saying that the Eircom entrants are now Shels, Derry, Drogheda and St Pats if they win the cup, Cork if Derry win it?

[Dodge]

Am I correct in saying that the Eircom entrants are now Shels, Derry, Drogheda and St Pats if they win the cup, Cork if Derry win it?

Yep. Hopefully we can make our debut

[David]

Would be good to have a new club in it although to be honest I do fancy a wee trip to Cork. Have wanted to draw them in the previous two competitions.

[dcfcsteve]

Yep. Hopefully we can make our debut

Not having a go at Pats - but Cork are clearly a much stronger side, so would be better for the league if they made it through instead.

Plus - they have a better ground and a larger fan base, so the TV spectacle would be better if it involved Cork instead as well.

Not looking to WUM, so please don't take this the wrong way.

[Buile Shuibhne]

from the 2007 Setanta Cup Regulations:



Entry Process
The Tournament shall be on invitational basis only and invitations shall be issued by
both Associations to four clubs under their jurisdiction taking into account the following sporting criteria listed in order of priority:

Clubs under the jurisdiction of the FAI:
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship winners.
· 2006 season FAI Cup winners. In the event of a club winning the Premier Division League championship and the FAI Cup, then the runner-up club in the FAI Cup shall be invited.
· 2006 season League Cup winners.
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship runners-up.

In the event of a club(s) qualifying to receive an invitation under two or more of the above listed criteria or a club(s) failing to meet other specified criteria in the regulations, then the invitation(s) shall be issued to the next highest placed club(s) in the final 2006 season Premier Division League championship table.



Clubs under the jurisdiction of the IFA:
· 2005/06 season Premier Division League championship winners.
· 2006 IFA Cup winners. In the event of a club winning the Premier Division League championship and the IFA Cup, then the runner-up club in the IFA Cup shall be invited.
· 2005/06 season CIS Cup winners.
· 2005/06 season Premier Division League championship runners-up.

In the event of a club(s) qualifying to receive an invitation under two or more of the above listed criteria or a club(s) failing to meet other specified criteria in the regulations, then the invitation(s) shall be issued to the next highest placed club(s) in the final 2005/06 season Premier Division League championship table.

[dcfcsteve]

from the 2007 Setanta Cup Regulations:


Clubs under the jurisdiction of the FAI:
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship winners.
· 2006 season FAI Cup winners. In the event of a club winning the Premier Division League championship and the FAI Cup, then the runner-up club in the FAI Cup shall be invited.
· 2006 season League Cup winners.
· 2006 season Premier Division League championship runners-up.

In the event of a club(s) qualifying to receive an invitation under two or more of the above listed criteria or a club(s) failing to meet other specified criteria in the regulations, then the invitation(s) shall be issued to the next highest placed club(s) in the final 2006 season Premier Division League championship table.

So Pats have to win the Cup to make Setanta.

D'oh - even more incentive for them now..... :(

[David]

Out of curiousity, do Cork fans travel in numbers. Other than Derry, the visiting crowds from EL at Windsor have been quite poor although I do accept there is not the same attitude to travelling to away games in the EL that there is in the Irish League.

[Dodge]

I know you're not WUMing steve but surely you'd wait to see what squad Cork will have next year (or Manager) before saying they'll be better than Pats. If Pats win the cup we're a far more appealing team to join for the flaoting Dublin player...

Plus it'll get stale if the same teams qualify every year. It might be bad for the el if we get it but it;ll be good for the tournament. I'm fairly sure we'd bring more to the North thatn Cork too

[David]

I know you're not WUMing steve but surely you'd wait to see what squad Cork will have next year (or Manager) before saying they'll be better than Pats. If Pats win the cup we're a far more appealing team to join for the flaoting Dublin player...

Plus it'll get stale if the same teams qualify every year. It might be bad for the el if we get it but it;ll be good for the tournament. I'm fairly sure we'd bring more to the North thatn Cork too

Forgive my ignorance, but what part of Dublin is St Pats in?

[dcfcsteve]

Forgive my ignorance, but what part of Dublin is St Pats in?

Inchicore. Central South-West Dublin, I believe.

A rather deprived area, to be fair.

[Dodge]

Inchicore. About 30 minutes walk from city centre (westwards). 10-15 minutes from Hueston Station if you've ever been there

[wws]

while Cork are far better team than us over the last few years in terms of consistency you have to factor in the head to head record - which is even this season

1 win 1 draw 1 loss

we'd be ahead on GD with our 2-0 win over Cork compared to their slender 0-1 win.


So its not as if they're streets ahead or anything. On balance Setanta is crying out for a Pats team and the north and south needs a strong St Pats

[higgins]

2006 season FAI Cup winners. In the event of a club winning the Premier Division League championship and the FAI Cup, then the runner-up club in the FAI Cup shall be invited

Derry did NOT win the League :D
Pats will not be asked as runner up if they go by the rules.

They will probably do what they did last season and offer the remaining places on your league finish.

The 4 best teams do not include St Pats so heres hoping for a Derry win in the cup.

[soccerc]

Inchicore. Central South-West Dublin, I believe.

A rather deprived area, to be fair.


Deprived of what exactly Steve? or is that A WUM:D

[TonyD]

On balance Setanta is crying out for a Pats team and the north and south needs a strong St Pats

You know it makes sense :D :D

Plus there's the little matter of 40 years without a cup win. Plenty of incentive there.

[dcfcsteve]

Deprived of what exactly Steve? or is that A WUM:D

Socially deprived.

Not WUMming, as I know the Brandywell is equally or more deprived as an area.

[David]

Socially deprived.

Not WUMming, as I know the Brandywell is equally or more deprived as an area.

I see the draw is on the 7th December so not long to wait now to see who we all get. Genuinely not a dig at Derry but I do hope we avoid them. Limited tickets and a nightmare to attend (all no fault of the club I know). Would love to get Drogs and Cork if they make it. If not Pats would do, never been there. Again in all seriousness, is there any danger of Shels not being able to compete due to their problems?

[wws]

id say shels will be able to compete etc
the only issue is if any one out of contract will walk - given that they know they are not guaranteed fixed regular income at shels

[dcfcsteve]

I know you're not WUMing steve but surely you'd wait to see what squad Cork will have next year (or Manager) before saying they'll be better than Pats. If Pats win the cup we're a far more appealing team to join for the flaoting Dublin player...

Fair point on the strength of teams once seaosn starts, but I would still expect Cork to be a stronger side than Pats. Any decent players floating around in Dublin will go to Bohs or Shels, or wherever Fenlon goes, rather than Inchicore. You don't have any money to sign many players either.


Plus it'll get stale if the same teams qualify every year. It might be bad for the el if we get it but it;ll be good for the tournament.

Agree with you on this. But from a personal point of view, I also view the Setanta as an opportunity for the EL to banish myths about the similarity in standad between the EL and IL. Therefore, I'd like our strongest sides out to drive this point. Though I agree that we don't want it to get stale either.


I'm fairly sure we'd bring more to the North thatn Cork too

Not sure I agree with you there. Despite being your first shot at a trophy in 3 years, your attendance at this years Cup Final will probably only be a third of what Cork brought to last years' final - despite the fact it's an easy trip across town for your supporters. Plus, Cork have a traditon of bringing decent numbers top away games (e.g. 400-500 to the Brandywell on Friday). I therefore can't see any evidence to support the notion of Pat's bringing more support to games in the north, even if your journey is shorter

[wws]

what did cork bring to the last fai cup final?

was down in longford there on friday and from the pics on their clubhouse walls pats filled the east lower stand in 2003 - with a small over spill on the north terrace buckets

[dcfcsteve]

what did cork bring to the last fai cup final?

was down in longford there on friday and from the pics on their clubhouse walls pats filled the east lower stand in 2003 - with a small over spill on the north terrace buckets

c. 15,000.

Total attendnace was just under 25,000 : 12-15,000 Cork, 7-10,000 Drogs and c. 3,000 neutrals (including me !).

[Peadar]

Ask the guys from Portadown if they'd have us back.
You all know it makes sense to have Cork City FC representing the eircom League.

By the way wws, if head-to-head means so much, why couldn't the league champions beat Cork City again this season?
They managed to win a single point against us and that was in a 2-2 draw at Tolka.
After getting shafted by the league over the Dublin City fiasco, we're owed at least a place in the Setanta Sports Cup.

[Anto McC]

Am i right in saying it's the same 4 teams from up north as last year?

[wws]

the general feedback I'm getting is that the Northern clubs would welcome St Pats into it next year - as a welcome break from the same tired old teams and their fans

[David]

Am i right in saying it's the same 4 teams from up north as last year?

Yes you are correct.

[David]

the general feedback I'm getting is that the Northern clubs would welcome St Pats into it next year - as a welcome break from the same tired old teams and their fans

Speaking personally, I do think you have a point although as I said earlier I have always wanted us to draw Cork. I can justify an overnight stay in Cork to my wife, can't really justify that with Dublin. ;)

[dcfcsteve]

the general feedback I'm getting is that the Northern clubs would welcome St Pats into it next year - as a welcome break from the same tired old teams and their fans

Same tired old teams and fans ?? :confused:

The tournaments only been running for 2 years, and has had a different set of entrants from the EL each time. The way you're going on you'd think it had been going for decades with exactly the same teams each time....

To be fair, I'm sure the northern fans know little or nothing about St Pats and porbably wouldn't care less if it was yourselves or UCD in there, for example. I'm sure they'd be more cncerned about seeing good footballing sides, large crowds and decent grounds more than any misty notion of staleness at such an early stage in the tournamnet's history. It would be great to have a new Northern team like Donegal Celtic in it this year, for example, but they're a weak team with little support and an atrocious ground so I'd rather Dungannon to them any day.

[Dodge]

Are you suggesting that a succesful Pats side would get less fans than Drogheda or Shels steve? We're not far off it now and a cup win and Setanta football will obviously add greatly to it. Likewise I'd have our ground as easily the match for Portadown's, Drogheda's or the Brandywell. I'd suggest we all stop trying to guess what the ILers want and see what happens. If we get there we'll be a great addition to it (welcomed pretty much every where we go ), if not I'm sure Cork will have fun too...

[Pablo]

Fact of the matter is the Setanta Cup would die if Cork City and Derry City are not in it evevry year. And Setanta know that full well.

[wws]

thats utter ballocks

[David]

Fact of the matter is the Setanta Cup would die if Cork City and Derry City are not in it evevry year. And Setanta know that full well.

Seemed to go ok the first year without Derry. :confused:

[David]

Are you suggesting that a succesful Pats side would get less fans than Drogheda or Shels steve? We're not far off it now and a cup win and Setanta football will obviously add greatly to it. Likewise I'd have our ground as easily the match for Portadown's, Drogheda's or the Brandywell. I'd suggest we all stop trying to guess what the ILers want and see what happens. If we get there we'll be a great addition to it (welcomed pretty much every where we go ), if not I'm sure Cork will have fun too...

If you do make it and we are drawn together, I hope you will take us up on an invite to have a few beers and a bite to eat with the lads from our supporters club before your game at Windsor. Ask the Drogs lads, you will enjoy it.

[wws]

I have to say I'm impressed with David Jeffries - he's the first "cross over" star of this setanta cup experiment - definitely made an impression on both sidses of the border with his tv interviews etc since this thing started a bit of a character

[BobtheDrog]

c. 15,000.

Total attendnace was just under 25,000 : 12-15,000 Cork, 7-10,000 Drogs and c. 3,000 neutrals (including me !).

there were more drogs fans than city fans there

[KildareFan]

Fact of the matter is the Setanta Cup would die if Cork City and Derry City are not in it evevry year. And Setanta know that full well.

I think it's more likely to die if the same eight teams are in it each year

[Peadar]

I think it's more likely to die if the same eight teams are in it each year

Cork City FC and Shelbourne SC are the only two Southern teams to have been in both of the tournaments to date. It's the Northern teams that have a sense of inevitablility about them.

[dcfcsteve]

there were more drogs fans than city fans there

:eek:

Please tell me you forgot to add a smilie there Bob..... :o

[paudie]

Ask the guys from Portadown if they'd have us back.
You all know it makes sense to have Cork City FC representing the eircom League.

After getting shafted by the league over the Dublin City fiasco, we're owed at least a place in the Setanta Sports Cup.

To be fair Peadar, we're not owed anything by anybody. We knew at the start of the season that 4th in the league wouldn't guarantee Setanta or Europe.

If we qualify, great, it's a brilliant competition. If Pats do best of luck to them. They're a good club.

[paudie]

there were more drogs fans than city fans there

i presume you have the figures to back that up. I reckon it was about 50/50.

[paudie]

Out of curiousity, do Cork fans travel in numbers. Other than Derry, the visiting crowds from EL at Windsor have been quite poor although I do accept there is not the same attitude to travelling to away games in the EL that there is in the Irish League.

We've had pretty modest crowds at Ports the last 2 years. It's a long trip North and back in midweek. A lot of the support were Dublin "exiles" I think.

A trip to Linfield might be seen as more "glamorous" and attract a few more.

[paudie]

Inchicore. About 30 minutes walk from city centre (westwards). 10-15 minutes from Hueston Station if you've ever been there

Quite a handy ground for Northern fans. The Luas tram from Connolly Station has a stop within 10 mins of the ground I think (name of stop?). Probably 30 mins max on the tram.

[wws]

GoldenBridge or Drimnagh luas stops would leave u a 2 min walk from the ground

[ndrog]

c. 15,000.

Total attendnace was just under 25,000 : 12-15,000 Cork, 7-10,000 Drogs and c. 3,000 neutrals (including me !).

Total crap .There were more people from Drogheda there than cork.I wont call them fans because most of them couldnt find united park if they tried, but the club sold more tickets than cork did .IN fairness its only an hour up the road and cork is bloody miles away so its no big deal . " 3,000 neutrals " where did this come from ?

[micls]

Total crap .There were more people from Drogheda there than cork.I wont call them fans because most of them couldnt find united park if they tried, but the club sold more tickets than cork did .IN fairness its only an hour up the road and cork is bloody miles away so its no big deal . " 3,000 neutrals " where did this come from ?

Tbh i thought there was more of us or 50/50 anyway at the cup final. definately more of ye at the Setanta final though

[CollegeTillIDie]

You know it makes sense :D :D

Plus there's the little matter of 40 years without a cup win. Plenty of incentive there.


45 years TonyD , not wishing to rub it in at all but it was 1961.

[Raheny Red]

45 years TonyD , not wishing to rub it in at all but it was 1961.

And 46 cup campaigns iirc (2 cups in the changeover season).

[dcfcsteve]

Total crap .There were more people from Drogheda there than cork.I wont call them fans because most of them couldnt find united park if they tried, but the club sold more tickets than cork did .IN fairness its only an hour up the road and cork is bloody miles away so its no big deal . " 3,000 neutrals " where did this come from ?

That's the very first mention of Droigs selling more tickets than Cork that I've ever heard. I'm fairly sure the post-match analysis on here from the time stated the crowd split as being roughly what I said.

Also - being in the East Upper gave me a good birds-eye view of the Drogs and Cork sections, as well as the ability to judge the mix of people around me. It would've been difficult to get such an overview if you were stuck in one or other fans' section

[Celdrog]

That's the very first mention of Droigs selling more tickets than Cork that I've ever heard. I'm fairly sure the post-match analysis on here from the time stated the crowd split as being roughly what I said.
Also - being in the East Upper gave me a good birds-eye view of the Drogs and Cork sections, as well as the ability to judge the mix of people around me. It would've been difficult to get such an overview if you were stuck in one or other fans' section
Drogs released official figures last year. We sold 13,100 tickets (one third of the town were in Lansdowne that day). Cork sold about 11,500 and there were about 400 neutrals. What was deceptive about the Drogs crowd was we had the south terrace with a lot of people standing. For the Setanta final we sold something like 5,700

[CollegeTillIDie]

Celdrog

I have asked this question before, and I worked last year with someone who lived in Drogheda and had never been to United Park, but went to the Cup Final, how many of these bandwaggoners went to a League game this season?

Drogheda United, to be fair, were a better side League wise this season.
Winning at home most of the time, ideal for a bandwaggoner to toddle along and watch even 1 game.

[CollegeTillIDie]

And 46 cup campaigns iirc (2 cups in the changeover season).

Yes you are right Raheny Red. This Cup Final would be the 2006/07 FInal in old money :D