View Full Version : Bertie's Money
Did Bertie receive "donations" or "loans" in the early nighties? Why is he so cagey & protective? Does he have something to hide?
dahamsta
24/09/2006, 5:58 PM
Any links pete? Haven't been following local news.
Gotta say, given Bertie's mentor, I'm constantly surprised dirt hasn't floated up about the guy yet, despite his cute-hooredness.
I have found it difficult to get links but heres one...
(http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1694261&issue_id=14687)
John83
24/09/2006, 6:54 PM
Monies given to Taoiseach were repayable (http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0923/1158590929587.html) [ireland.com]
beautifulrock
24/09/2006, 8:37 PM
a non story, if it is not related to planning applications it cannot be brought into the tribunal. Bertie is credited with getting rid of the brown envelope culture in Irish politics.
dahamsta
24/09/2006, 8:53 PM
You state that as if it's a fact, which is what we deal with in this forum. So: by whom?
adam
John83
24/09/2006, 8:54 PM
I think it's a pretty big story. You don't think it's even a little important that the Taoiseach took money like that? What did he give in return?
Bertie 'getting rid' of the bribe taking was a political necessity, a PR exercise. I have little faith that he'd have done it if all those high profile cases hadn't hurt FF.
soccerc
24/09/2006, 8:57 PM
a non story, if it is not related to planning applications it cannot be brought into the tribunal. Bertie is credited with getting rid of the brown envelope culture in Irish politics.
Not true, here are the terms of reference as amended in 2004
http://www.flood-tribunal.ie/asp/Detail.asp?ObjectID=310&Mode=0&RecordID=357
Dr.Nightdub
24/09/2006, 9:02 PM
"From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs".
Maybe Bertie has been a socialist for longer than we imagined. :D
Anyone see his denials? Very Haughey/ Flynn/ Burke/ Lawlor-esque.
It was gifts he recieved from business men while Minister of Finance. Yes he does have questions to answer. What will come of it is a different matter, seeing as he's got away with stuff like signing blank cheques for Haughey without censure.
Lionel Ritchie
25/09/2006, 9:26 AM
"From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs".
Maybe Bertie has been a socialist for longer than we imagined. :D
...or maybe it's FF clientist speak which translates into "you gets what you pays for":D
I thought Pat Rabbitte may have been onto something this morning when he said he suspects this was leaked by one of the people who's being investigated rather than by someone at the heart of a sculduggerous plot to bring down the government.
It now appears there's up to a dozen names involved rather than the three or four first mooted.
I've always been surprised by the manner Bertie has kept his image so clean dispite being surrounded by corruption in the 80s. I think he got away far too easily with the blank cheques matter.
Love the way bribes are renamed "indefinite loans". Ah sure he was only giving me a loan that no onus on me to repay..."
:eek: :rolleyes:
rebs23
25/09/2006, 10:22 AM
"The most cunning, most devious of them all" - Haughey on Bertie.
Bertie just had to be up to his neck in it. They don't call him the Teflan Taoiseach for nothing. Nothing has been able to stick to him, but this time it looks like he has been caught out.
Payments for what Bertie??? Signing blank cheques for Haughey, reappointing Ray Burke to the cabinet. Will someone please pin something on Bertie so we don't have to listen to his inane dribble for another five years.
Dodge
25/09/2006, 10:23 AM
Agree with macy re the denials. A bit too "nothing happened, nothing to explain, move along now..."
Lim till i die
25/09/2006, 12:20 PM
Notice how far the PD's have fallen aswell since the days of Dessie O'Malley.
Deafening silence from those single party government corruption trouble-shooters :rolleyes:
pineapple stu
25/09/2006, 12:29 PM
Anyone see his denials? Very Haughey/ Flynn/ Burke/ Lawlor-esque.
One of the rags (the Mirror, I think) had the story on the front page last Friday or Saturday, with Ahern saying (and I paraphrase as I don't have the quote to hand) the money wasn't important, but that the person who had told about the story was a filthy sneak. Now it's quite possible the rag was tinkering with the words to suit its own ends, but it's a remarkable quote nonetheless.
cheifo
25/09/2006, 12:57 PM
If its harmless but embarrassing then he had better just come out with it.It is not going to go away.I remember an interview with Albert Reynolds saying that its the things you dont see coming that will take you down in politics.
Bertie refuses to answer questions... (http://www.breakingnews.ie/2006/09/25/story278273.html)
What possible reason could he have for refusing the questions? Is he keeping quiet trying to see if will go away.
Honestly i can't see this one going away quietly. The opposition & the media will just keep asking for clarifications...
dahamsta
25/09/2006, 5:22 PM
I'd imagine he's stalling for time so he and his handlers can come up with a strategy. Whatever you think about Bertie, he's no numbskull. It has to be said though, the best way to deal with accusations like this is to refute them with an iron fist as quickly as possible, otherwise the problem festers like a nasty boil. Makes you think when he's not in a position to do that. Probably looking for ways to deflect it elsewhere.
I imagine something fascinating and extremely controversial will find it's way to the media in the next few days.
adam
Billsthoughts
25/09/2006, 5:43 PM
did anyone see any of the sunday papers?
I only saw one of them and it was fairly prominent(even tabloidesque) on the front of the tribune.
bennocelt
25/09/2006, 8:55 PM
IWhatever you think about Bertie, he's no numbskull.
no.really:rolleyes:
the man can barely talk
Clifford
25/09/2006, 10:30 PM
Or read bennocelt, very true. The man's advisors are no numbskulls.
John83
26/09/2006, 8:50 AM
no.really:rolleyes:
the man can barely talk
You don't have to be an eloquent speaker to be cunning and resourceful. That Bertie's gotten where he is today suggests to me that Haughey's charactorisation of him is much closer to the button than the image some people have of a bumbling fool.
dahamsta
26/09/2006, 9:12 AM
De anorak and de accent were the best cover ever, he should have stuck with them. Although the yellow suit was a mighty comeback!
Of course there are exceptions to the dumb world leader rule. One really big exception in particular. :)
adam
BohsPartisan
26/09/2006, 9:20 AM
You don't have to be an eloquent speaker to be cunning and resourceful. That Bertie's gotten where he is today suggests to me that Haughey's charactorisation of him is much closer to the button than the image some people have of a bumbling fool.
Yeah I agree. The dumb ones are the people who are taken in by his guff.
Someone was saying to me that he was given a loan in 1993 to help pay for his separation costs. Fair enough i suppose but he is the Taoiseach and has to be above corruption suspicion. If he hasn't paid this money back 13 years later then i think we can assume was a "gift" & therefore at the very least he needs to pay tax on. What haven't the Revenue Commissioners investigated him? I suppose it would be apt enough if we had a tax dodging leader of the country...
:eek:
drinkfeckarse
26/09/2006, 9:47 AM
Someone was saying to me that he was given a loan in 1993 to help pay for his separation costs.
Why would a leading politician need a "loan" to cover his separation costs?? He was hardly skint.....
The number of "clean" politicians anywhere can be counted in single figures. I bet there are few if any who can claim that there is nothing dodgy that can ever be brought up against them.
Dodge
26/09/2006, 10:07 AM
I'd imagine in 1993, a separation cost a fair whack, particularly for a very high profile one. He wasn't taoiseach at the time so wouldn't have been earning huge sums. Don't think thats the issue
bennocelt
26/09/2006, 12:06 PM
You don't have to be an eloquent speaker to be cunning and resourceful. That Bertie's gotten where he is today suggests to me that Haughey's charactorisation of him is much closer to the button than the image some people have of a bumbling fool.
no but it helps!
man if ye think bertie is running the country then your seriously deluded
just look at the recent quarrel with smurfit and the ryder cup
puppits on a string
Vitruvian Man
26/09/2006, 12:37 PM
One of the rags (the Mirror, I think) had the story on the front page last Friday or Saturday, with Ahern saying (and I paraphrase as I don't have the quote to hand) the money wasn't important, but that the person who had told about the story was a filthy sneak.
Just to follow up on this point.
I heard Pat the Cope Gallagher* on Newstalk this morning making ominous and veiled "we know who you are" threats against somebody involved in the Tribunal.
He says all of the damaging leaks are coming from one (evil) person associated with the tribunal but refused to name names when pressed.
Obviously FF know who their enemy is, I wonder what action they are going to take
* I think, I missed the first part of the interview.
He wasn't taoiseach at the time so wouldn't have been earning huge sums.
He was Minister of Finance earning £70,000 per annum, not including expenses. That would go a long way in 1993. There seems to be a consensus among even the FF hacks and apologists that the figure was between £50,000 and £100,000, just to put it in perspective compared with what he was earning.
mypost
27/09/2006, 2:58 AM
The explanation Bertie gave was very weak, and will be ruthlessly exploited by the left over the coming weeks. This is a very serious matter, with potentially very serious consequences for the government.
I feel politicians will be knocking on our doors again soon.
BohsPartisan
27/09/2006, 9:11 AM
He was Minister of Finance earning £70,000 per annum, not including expenses. That would go a long way in 1993. There seems to be a consensus among even the FF hacks and apologists that the figure was between £50,000 and £100,000, just to put it in perspective compared with what he was earning.
A clericle Officer in the civil service on the highest rate (Thats 10 years service) would have been earning 17 grand at the time.
Has anybody asked why Ivor whatsisname had to resign over a free paintjob on his house (rightly so of course) when this "loan" puts that well in the shade?
Blubbering on Television to try and get sympathy makes it all the worse.
If he wanted a loan he should have went to the credit union.
The TV response was pathetic IMO. Just made him look snivelling (sp?). The only name I recognised was Charlie Chawke bnut I only glanced at them
Strabane_Harp
27/09/2006, 9:43 AM
He looked very very uncomfortable on tele i must say.
dahamsta
27/09/2006, 9:59 AM
Crap moved here (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=42197). Is there video available? What show was it on?
Lionel Ritchie
27/09/2006, 10:01 AM
The explanations that these people were personal friends is starting to look thin already. One of them was 26 years of age at the time. 5 have gone on to serve as government appointments on state boards.
I've no interest in what the money was for -but how the guy can conclude he has no tax liability is baffling.
Some of the muck I'm listening to on the radio (Kenny) is depressing. We truly get the executive we deserve.
He looked very very uncomfortable on tele i must say.
Was he crying? When i tuned in certainly looked like a few tears in the eyes & his right eye gone wonky... :confused:
To suggest money he hasn't paid back in the last 13 years is still a loan is ludicrous. I think he earns 200k+ a year now & has been Taoisach for some time. I was a gift & therefore at the very minimum he needs to be investigated by the Revenue Commissioners & pay back taxes & interest.
I don't know what planet he was on when he said he appointed people to state boards as they were friends & not because they gave him money. :eek:
Bertie has seriously lost it & while i am sure his PR people will try to spin the "...poor mans marraige had broken up..." story i don't buy it anyway.
BTW tv interview was shown on RTE news at 9pm.
Dodge
27/09/2006, 10:03 AM
On the main news last night, think its available on the RTE website
Strabane_Harp
27/09/2006, 10:46 AM
this could easily spiral into crisis for Bertie,
Fianna Fail are in trouble if it does.
Bertie was laughable last night with his crocadile tears. How can it be a loan, if you've never paid any interest or the capital back?
Has to be serious questions about the tax. No reason why a Minister for Finance, earning £70,000 a year couldn't have easily got a loan for that amount. And if not then, he could have insisted on paying back the loan in the mean time.
His blather about appointing people because they were his friends not because of donations is just bizarre - sure never mind them being the best for the job.
No one seems to want to get into it, and the actual personal issues around the seperation is irrelevant, however, could he have issues in the family court too? Not sure of the process, but I would've thought that any settlement would've been based on his income and assets at the time, which he had just increased by £40k...
It appears at least one on the list was a mutual friend of Bertie and Frank Dunlop...
http://www.irishelection.com/09/bertie-12-apostles/
drinkfeckarse
27/09/2006, 11:36 AM
So he gets a "loan", doesn't pay any of it back or pay any tax on it and appoints friends to high powered positions :eek: :rolleyes:
In any other profession that would classed as corruption...simple as.
Off course being politics though, they will find a way of claiming it is all above board.....
I would say at this stage the opposition parties can't believe their luck. I think FG didn't comment on the interview last night - probably so much rich pickings they want to ensure they used to maximum political gain.
It may seem like a small matter but political careers have been destroyed on lesser details. The more i think of i could see him resigning over this if drags on much longer.
Charges so far:
- Did not pay taxes on gift
- Appoints people to state positions because they are friends.
:eek:
Schumi
27/09/2006, 12:28 PM
My mouse slipped and I voted loan instead of gift by mistake. Can someone change it please? :o
Lionel Ritchie
27/09/2006, 12:33 PM
My mouse slipped and I voted loan instead of gift by mistake. Can some one change it please? :o
I was about to ask could the two people who voted 'loan' explain their logic. But seeing as you've cleared that up .... that just leaves... :eek: :confused:
I would say at this stage the opposition parties can't believe their luck. I think FG didn't comment on the interview last night
Enda Kenny said something on the late news alright, but I'm sure they're saving up the best for today.
Billsthoughts
27/09/2006, 1:05 PM
His blather about appointing people because they were his friends not because of donations is just bizarre - sure never mind them being the best for the job.
...
Am glad someone else noticed this. my jaw dropped when I heard it. surely he just admitted to appointing people on the basis that they were his mates? does this not open up a whole new problem for him?
he actually came accross as someone who was lying and he had something to hide. very bad performance.
Vitruvian Man
27/09/2006, 1:20 PM
Ivor Callelly got the (Bertie Sponsored) shaft because one of his "friends" painted his house.
He would have been better to keep his mouth shut about his state appointees & just say was a gift he forgot to declare for tax...
Then again i love the quote "...I know the tax laws as I am an accountant..." :D :D
Well clearly he not a very good accountant is he... :rolleyes:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.