View Full Version : Bertie's Money
Strabane_Harp
03/10/2006, 7:21 PM
If anyone believes Bertie Ahern did not have a bank account when this was taking place then they deserve to be locked up as insane.
Bertie has been found out and no doubt more info will leak out week after week. If he didnt have a bank account how exactly was he receiving his minister of finance wages??? id imagine they dont write out many checks.
Christ the man should resign and stop embarassing himself
Vincent Brown made an interesting observation last night. The time Bertie saved this £50,000, which he paid into the bank account (once he opened his own account) in various smaller amounts, is exactly the time that the tribunal is investigating alledged payments to him by developers. Obviously just a coincidence.
On Berties's performance yesterday, still many many questions remain unanswered, but it's really disgusting that he chose to hide the Manchester payment behind Miriam and the girls as well. The way he keeps bringing them into the public domain now in an attempt to cover up his actions shows the respect he really has for them, or that he has something really significant to hide.
BohsPartisan
04/10/2006, 7:51 AM
I'll turn against Bertie if he's broken a law, .
So if a politician had molested a 10 year old during the loophole when it wasn't technically against the law, that would have been fine as they weren't breaking any law.
Even if he broke no law he broke his code of standards as a politician.
Yeah he came clean but how many years later? He more or less admitted that he came clean because he knew it was going to come out soon in the tribunals, then he went on to praise himself from a great height for his honesty. :rolleyes:
I think Berties star has not shone for some time now & while it looks like he will survive it will surely make him weaker for next years election. Hard to know how many votes it will cost FF but surely it will lose them some votes? Then again this is Ireland & we really do get what we deserve.
I am amazed by the number of FF politicians that have said Bertie did nothing wrong but also said they wouldn't accept the money. Surely a contradiction? :confused:
Lim till i die
04/10/2006, 1:18 PM
Whooosh......... There's the sound of the whole thing blowing over
Shameful performance by the opposition (And those corruption busters the PDs) during the whole scandal.
The unwillingness to press the issue would almost make a cynic wonder how much the rest have to hide......
The unwillingness to press the issue would almost make a cynic wonder how much the rest have to hide......
I think the opposition don't want to press as they will then be seen to be taking advantage of a family situation. On the other hand as others have said Bertie plays that card at every opportunity.
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt but now i think he actually does have a lot more to hide but cunning enough to cover his tracks & exploit his popularily by the public. I would guess he has received more money otherwise we are assuming he the only clean politicians of his generation despite being in some powerful positions through the 80s and 90s.
Student Mullet
04/10/2006, 6:17 PM
Originally Posted by Student Mullet
I'll turn against Bertie if he's broken a law,So if a politician had molested a 10 year old during the loophole when it wasn't technically against the law, that would have been fine as they weren't breaking any law.No because molesting a 10 year old is immoral, independant of the law.
Getting help from his friends is only wrong if he broke some other rule along the way. There's nothing wrong with the help itself.
BohsPartisan
04/10/2006, 8:43 PM
No because molesting a 10 year old is immoral, independant of the law.
Getting help from his friends is only wrong if he broke some other rule along the way. There's nothing wrong with the help itself.
For crying out loud. The minister for finance who earns a wage many times the average wage takes financial "help" from businessmen and then gives some of them nice jobs. Very moral.
Clifford
05/10/2006, 8:06 AM
What's the deal now, he bought his house off one of the boyos at the Manchester Massacre or so they say on the radio. Slippery slope now for bumbling Bert. The media have him in their sights.
iceman
05/10/2006, 8:42 AM
Bertie says that he did'nt break any law , now while Im no Legal Eagle , im pretty sure that under Family Law , he would be obliged to declare everything while seeking a seperation and he failed to do that.
The unwillingness to press the issue would almost make a cynic wonder how much the rest have to hide......
More to do with Bertie playing the family break up card, and the opposition having to walk a fine line with the wider public (despite it only being FF bringing it up). Hence why the concentrated on the Manchester money which started off being a seperate issue, but Bertie on Tuesday successfully tied it back in with the seperation. That was before the latest can of worms being opened.
The cynic in me would suggest that the opposition want to drag it out as long as possible to keep the story alive to damage the reputation of FF's strongest hand with a drip drip effect. It wasn't really working, but it seems Bertie is doing their job for them though by not fully disclosing and continually having to explain new revelations as they get leaked.
Kingdom
05/10/2006, 8:52 AM
It's hard to predict how this will shape the next election. I have to be honest I vote on the person who I feel will do the most for my area or for me personally. Sometimes this is an independent, or sometimes its a party candidate. I'd say a lot of people are like that. So in effect, what Ahern has done, won't change a lot of peoples vote.
I know someone has criticised Kenny for not going for the jugular, but I think he will gain respect from the public for repsecting Ahern's family and respecting the situation while not agreieing with it. I think this will gain votes for Fine Gael.
BohsPartisan
05/10/2006, 9:02 AM
It's hard to predict how this will shape the next election. I have to be honest I vote on the person who I feel will do the most for my area or for me personally. .
And this is precicely why we end up with the governments we do. People go and vote them in because sure they have a constituency office in the town or something like that, then they go and complain about the government.
DmanDmythDledge
05/10/2006, 12:09 PM
Can someone explain to me how some TD a while ago had to resign because someone painted his house for free and the Taoiseach gets away with accepting a large enough some of money?
Lionel Ritchie
05/10/2006, 1:57 PM
I'm going to stop pulling this thing away from Berties corruption now.
Too many issues to deal with here. needs a thread of it's own.
Back to Bertie ...the shadey fcuk!:eek:
:D
Can someone explain to me how some TD a while ago had to resign because someone painted his house for free and the Taoiseach gets away with accepting a large enough some of money?
Not only that but Bertie "buys" house from guy who giving him "loans" or "gifts".
Seems the builder guy bought house for 138k (not sure when) & Bertie either bought off him for 139k (thats what he told journalists when interviewed years ago) or 180k (this is what he claims now). I think this was 1998 when house prices increasing at considerable rate.
I think Bertie starting to smella badly now. It could be argued that he trying to cover up 1 indiscretion with another lie & as the lies flow harder to cover each one up?
Had to laugh at the way he p!ssed off the PDs yesterday. He;d got them to stay in government & 1 unscripted comment & boom! The PDs sell themselves as the FF watchdogs & Bertie tries to wipe that out in one sentence. :eek: :D
casso36
06/10/2006, 12:26 PM
Not only that but Bertie "buys" house from guy who giving him "loans" or "gifts".
Seems the builder guy bought house for 138k (not sure when) & Bertie either bought off him for 139k (thats what he told journalists when interviewed years ago) or 180k (this is what he claims now). I think this was 1998 when house prices increasing at considerable rate.
I think Bertie starting to smella badly now. It could be argued that he trying to cover up 1 indiscretion with another lie & as the lies flow harder to cover each one up?
Had to laugh at the way he p!ssed off the PDs yesterday. He;d got them to stay in government & 1 unscripted comment & boom! The PDs sell themselves as the FF watchdogs & Bertie tries to wipe that out in one sentence. :eek: :D
PD'S have'nt a leg to stand on, Bertie and the rest of his strokers, don't need them to form a government, and PDs can't bring the government down, so wait and see PDs will crawl under the nearest rock with tails between legs!!!!
PD'S have'nt a leg to stand on, Bertie and the rest of his strokers, don't need them to form a government...
True to some extent but very difficult to run a government relying on independents as they very quick to change their mind of blackmail the government. Really says a lot about irish politicians & voters that have independents queueing up to sell their vote for small local issues - if every politician did that the country would be unmanagable.
Did Bertie, who has everything in the public domain according to himself, win his case yesterday with regard to his seperation financial details? For those not informed, he was trying to block tribunal access to those details, and thus block cross referencing the stuff from the last few weeks with what he actually put before the family court. Could have significant implications if they're treated differently and if they're not on the family court stuff then he's in contempt.
CollegeTillIDie
12/10/2006, 10:50 PM
The only real scandal in this case is that the Prime Minister of the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND does not support his local EL team but an ENGLISH F.A. PREMIERSHIP one.
Has it not occurred to anybody that if he were a Shelbourne supporter instead of a ManUre supporter he would never have been embroiled in this controversy?
DmanDmythDledge
12/10/2006, 11:01 PM
The only real scandal in this case is that the Prime Minister of the REPUBLIC OF IRELAND does not support his local EL team but an ENGLISH F.A. PREMIERSHIP one.
Has it not occurred to anybody that if he were a Shelbourne supporter instead of a ManUre supporter he would never have been embroiled in this controversy?
...no.
i think he's always maintained he's a Drums fan. so he supports his local team
BohsPartisan
13/10/2006, 7:47 AM
Thats a cop out.
i think he's always maintained he's a Drums fan. so he supports his local team
So he's up in Santry most weeks then? Biggest cop out ever...
Btw, 3 cheers to the Irish Electorate, truely insistant on getting the politicians they deserve.
FF up 8 points according to latest poll. PDs up 1.
You've got to wonder about people sometimes...
BohsPartisan
13/10/2006, 8:44 AM
Yeah but you've also got to wonder about polls. I've conducted them myself in the past and even the most scientific methods are far from foolproof.
Student Mullet
13/10/2006, 11:23 AM
i think he's always maintained he's a Drums fan. so he supports his local teamDrums played UCD in the Cup 2 years ago, their highest game in 33 years and Bertie was no where to be seen.
drummerboy
13/10/2006, 11:36 AM
He was invited, but if my memory is correct he was out of the country on that date.
BohsPartisan
13/10/2006, 11:44 AM
He was invited, but if my memory is correct he was out of the country on that date.
In Manchester?
He was invited
Invited? Wouldn't have thought a "big drums fan" would need to be invited.
So he's up in Santry most weeks then? Biggest cop out ever...
Btw, 3 cheers to the Irish Electorate, truely insistant on getting the politicians they deserve.
You obviously work for the Irish Times or are under the illusion that if people don't vote the way you want to there’s something wrong with them, the stupid little people. Enda Kenny is simply not a credible proposition as Taoiseach & the Rainbow coalition is not a credible alternative to the present government.
BohsPartisan
15/10/2006, 1:17 PM
& the Rainbow coalition is not a credible alternative to the present government.
I don't know, Zippy, George, Bungle and Geoffrey could do a better job IMO. :D
dahamsta
15/10/2006, 1:44 PM
You obviously [...] are under the illusion that if people don't vote the way you want to there’s something wrong with them, the stupid little people.Well, there is something wrong with them: They voted for liars and thieves. Worse, a lot of them defend them when they get caught with their hand right there in the cookie jar, and believe them when the defense is transparent bullpoop, and arrogant bullpoop at that.
I wouldn't say they're stupid per se, but those particular people are hardly Mastermind contestants now are they?
adam
Well, there is something wrong with them: They voted for liars and thieves. Worse, a lot of them defend them when they get caught with their hand right there in the cookie jar, and believe them when the defense is transparent bullpoop, and arrogant bullpoop at that.
I wouldn't say they're stupid per se, but those particular people are hardly Mastermind contestants now are they?
adam
As with every profession , there are bad eggs on every side, not everyone invloved in the present goverment is corrupt or on the make. Fine gael & Labour were both in power & when they were, crime & the health service were , as always, major issues. Now they tell us they can sort it out. he people are being given two choices FF & the Pd's or FG & labour. Labour are refusing to go into power with FF (heard that one before:rolleyes: ). So people have a limited choice. They can vote rainbow because they want them in or vote for change for the sake of change or stick with the present goverment. Most people polled obviously consider their better off with the present goverment and i still think that doesn't make the stupid or blind.
BohsPartisan
15/10/2006, 2:54 PM
This poll means very little unless an election is called before xmas and that won't be the case. In fact FF in the last few years have always peaked in the polls at the start of the Dail and reached their nadir around the end. Also this poll does not put them up on their '02 election share of the vote, only on where they had been earlier in the year.
The last MRBI poll before the election in 2002 on May 13 had the following support figures:
FF 45.2
FG 20.6
LAB 11.6
SF 6.7
PD 2.0
GP 3.4
IND 10.6
The election on May 17 gave the following figures:
FF 41.5
FG 22.5
LAB 10.8
SF 6.5
PD 4.0
GP 3.8
IND 10.9
Party vote share and change from last poll of polls;
FF 37.2% (+0.9%)
FG 25.2% (no change)
Labour : 11.7% (-0.1%)
PDs : 4% (+0.2%)
Greens : 6.8 (+0.1%)
SF : 8.2% (-0.5%)
Independents and others : 7.3% (-0.5%).
Coalition options versus overall majority required.
FF/PD : 77 (8 short)
FG/Lab : 64 (21 short)
FF/Lab : 91 (overall majory of 16)
FG/Lab/Greens : 75 (10 short)
FF/PD/Greens : 87 (overall majority of Cool
FG/Lab/Greens/PDs : 81 (4 short)
FF/SF : 76 (9 short)
*Figures knicked from Politics.ie
not everyone invloved in the present goverment is corrupt or on the make.
Don't think anyone suggested they all were. Clearly the party leader was taking payments from businessmen, just like his mentor. What the whole party (with one exception), and the PD's are guilty of is turning a blind eye and allowing this corruption of politics to take place without censure - in fact they chose to actively support it.
The Irish electorate are at best gullible, at worst every bit as guilty of accepting corruption as FF. There must be an attitude of that "sure if I was there I'd do the same" which reflects extremely poorly on the nation as a whole imo. This can be seen by poll topping performances of those that have been found to be corrupt, and will no doubt be followed in Dublin Central whatever questions remain.
FF up 8 points according to latest poll. PDs up 1.
You've got to wonder about people sometimes...
26% of people apparently think bertie was right to accept the money. I know a lot of people said he was wrong but didn't change their vote but when 1/4 of the people think he was CORRECT you really have to wonder how fecked up this country is. :rolleyes:
I have lower opinion of Bertie now due to the manner he dragged his family into this issue at every opportunity in attempt to hide behind them.
Its surprising the opposition getting hurt by in the polls as I thought Enda Kenny wisely didn't attack Bertie on this. :confused:
Ringo
16/10/2006, 12:20 PM
The Irish Times doesn’t write the script for Ireland
TOM MCGURK
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=TOM+MCGURK-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqid=18046-qqqx=1.asp
Oh dear. As The Irish Times liberally hands out six of the best all round, I hope that this morning you all feel thoroughly ashamed of yourselves. As Yeats apparently was prone to say: ‘‘You have disgraced yourselves again.”
The Mahon Tribunal was, in the long run, aware of all these matters - and had all the surrounding and contextual information as well. Had Ahern been involved in corrupt practices, surely the tribunal would have been better placed to adjudicate than a newspaper in possession of an anonymous document later destroyed by the editor?
Indeed, the argument that citizen Kennedy subsequently gave to the tribunal - that she felt that Mahon wouldn’t even be reporting on this matter as grounds for her need to publish it - actually undermines her argument about publishing in the first place.
bennocelt
18/10/2006, 9:45 AM
The Irish Times doesn’t write the script for Ireland
TOM MCGURK
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=TOM+MCGURK-qqqs=commentandanalysis-qqqid=18046-qqqx=1.asp
.
i gave up reading that when he mentioned that Bertie might be considered our best ever leader:rolleyes: jeez
dahamsta
18/10/2006, 10:06 AM
The blind leading the blind.
I never read articles where 1 media source criticising the other media source. The media is supposed to report the news not BE the news.
:eek:
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