Team v Cyprus, Czech Republic [Archive]

TerryPhelan

06/09/2006, 3:07 PM

Possible injuries aside, what do we think?

I think the following must be in the team:
Given
Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
S Reid
A Reid
Duff
Keane
Doyle

I'd go for Harte (if he's recovered in time) at left back - in deadball alone he quite simply offers more than O'Shea (should be kept in squad but fundamentally not good enough for the first team), Kilbane (the man knows how to run around, granted, but he cannot play) and Carr (his temperament and foul mouth, coupled with sub-par form, leads you to question Stan's alacrity in getting him back in the fold) - and probably Carsley to partner S Reid and anchor the midfield. Reid prospers at Blackburn largely because he has the hard-working, hard-tackling Savage breaking up play for him. Carsley, as similarly lacking in talent as Savage, can do this job for us.

While in the future I want to see Andy Reid as a playmaking centre midfielder for us, for now I think he is the right man for the wing. Doesn't matter too much which one - I thought one of the strengths of the Kerr era was the introduction of Reid and Duff switching wings: not only would his inclusion take the creative burden off Duff, but it would keep the fullbacks guessing. He also gives us another credible option at deadball, peerless (in this squad) passing ability, excellent vision and international experience against stronger teams.

I like what I've seen thusfar of Alan O'Brien - the speedy supersub winger seems to be the idee du jour (Odonkor for Germany, Lennon for England), and he opened up opportunities against both Holland and Germany when he came on. Keep him in there.

McGeady - I'm not so sure. I haven't seen anything from him to allay the criticisms of him being too lightweight, and of his tendency to show plenty of tricks and feints with little end result of worth. Should certainly not be keeping Andy Reid out of the squad, but probably deserves to hang on to a place for the time being.

What say ye?

NeilMcD

06/09/2006, 3:10 PM

Good post agree with nearly everything there. I think Mc Geady should be ahead of Alan O Brien to come on though if Reid gets a bit tired in the 2nd half.

bwagner

06/09/2006, 3:16 PM

NeilMcD

06/09/2006, 3:19 PM

Finnan in midfield against Cyprus is there any need for that, surely a full back in midfield should only be played away from home against a top team.

Stuttgart88

06/09/2006, 3:27 PM

Good post alright. All makes sense.

The big question about McGeady is when does he cease to be a speculative selection? I'd be inclined to take a gamble on him & would have started him in Germany on the basis of his second half against Holland, especially as Andy Reid wasn't even in the squad. But it'd be a punt alright. I've seen him excel and I've seen him absolutely dire (friendly at Fulham last year, U21s at Tolka against Switzerland).

Of those more vociferous in their call for McGeady to be included, can you educate me as to exactly what position he's been so good for Celtic this season? Wide, advanced midfield, or free?

Carsley & S. Reid would probably be sound but not overly creative. Not sure if we can't do better than that pairing.

elroy

06/09/2006, 3:59 PM

All great in theory lads, but i get the feeling stan wont change much from last sat and he is unlikely to move JOS out of midfield.

Carsley??? Have my doubts but anyway is he not retired again?
Andy Reid should be there i agree, but he needs to get good games for charlton under his belt.
I'd also like us to devise some sort of plan b, other than hoof the ball up to doyle and keane who for their size did quite well in the air on sat.

Billsthoughts

07/09/2006, 1:27 PM

I would play

given

harte dunne A o brian finnan

Macgeady Miller S Reid A Reid duff

and Doyle up front on his own.

NeilMcD

07/09/2006, 1:36 PM

I would play

given

harte dunne A o brian finnan

Macgeady Miller S Reid A Reid duff

and Doyle up front on his own.

Surely you would have Harte at left back and Finnan at Right back. I see you have dropped our record goal scorer also. Also Dunne usually plays on the left of the centre back two.

tetsujin1979

07/09/2006, 2:33 PM

Dunne usually plays on the left of the centre back two.

distin plays on the left, he's left footed. Dunne is right footed and plays on the right

NeilMcD

07/09/2006, 2:39 PM

For Ireland though he usually plays as the left centre back.

NeilMcD

07/09/2006, 3:50 PM

The reason we have no plan is whenyou have central midfield of O Shea and Kilbane you are not going to go anywhere. I think we can all go around the houses about the rest of the team. But this is the area that needs to be sorted out and sorted quickly. I think a Carsley Stephen Reid and Andy Reid 2 from 3 is the solution. You have natural central midfield players who know how to play the ball simple when required and in Reids case knows how to pick a pass out that others may not see. You also have good tacklers in all of them. Possibley Carsley A Reid would not have the legs but Stephen Reid would have.

This needs to be sorted quickly and O Shea and Kilbane should be asked to fight for the left back spot along with Harte.

Billsthoughts

07/09/2006, 3:54 PM

the back four should have been the other way round.
my mistake
as for what side either of the two centre backs play it s not really relevant. unless you were pathetically trying to pick holes just for the sake some sad little points scoring excercise. you wouldnt be doin that now would ya?
and yeah I would drop robbie keane. he doesnt score goals and he spends most of his time giving out to reffs and being where he shouldnt be on the pitch.

NeilMcD

07/09/2006, 4:00 PM

Well Dunne usually plays on the left side and for Ireland that is pretty good esp if Harte plays as Dunne is a good talker and has good pace also so would be able to cover for Harte. Not interested in points scoring whatsover, just having a chat about football.

SeanieBoy

07/09/2006, 4:06 PM

my team would be

Given
carr dunne o brien o shea (harte sub)
finnan reid reid duff
keane
doyle

carr only because i know he is not goin to be dropped
im gona stone stan's house if he picks kilbane , i live beside his folks

I think this is our best team at the moment:

GK:Given
LB:Harte
CB:Dunne
CB:O'Brien
RB:Finnan
LM:Duff
CM:S.Reid
CM:Kavanagh
RM:McGeady
ST:Doyle
ST:Keane

Have a seroius doubt about central midfield, but thought Kavanagh was the best man for the job, also leftback is dodgy, but we should be playing naturally left footed players in the position.

endabob1

07/09/2006, 4:12 PM

I think this is our best team at the moment:

GK:Given
LB:Harte
CB: Dunne
CB:O'Brien
RB:Finnan
LM: Duff
CM:S.Reid
CM:Kavanagh
RM:McGeady
ST: Doyle
ST:Keane

Have a seroius doubt about central midfield, but thought Kavanagh was the best man for the job, also leftback is dodgy, but we should be playing naturally left footed players in the position.

I'd agree with most of that, I'm not pushed about Harte or O'Shea at left back Harte offers somthing from set pieces but is defensively woeful, O'Shea is a bit more solid but offers nothing going forward.
I would have Stephen Ireland in midfield in place of Kavanagh, I think he's more creative and Kav, honest as he is has never made be believe he can do it for Ireland.
For the record I think O'Shea will play in the centre of midfield again:mad:

wizzbizz

07/09/2006, 5:03 PM

We need a forward looking team
Given
Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
O'Shea
Duff
Reid
McGeady
?
Doyle
Keane

Now l am stuck for who to play on the left, there are various ways to play this. We could put it Reid but he would need to prove hes fitness. Also a place could be found for carr moving finnan to the middle. l think we need to be able to mix it up and maybe an attack minded 5 man midfield with Keane dropping back and Doyle holding the ball up. For this we Duf on his game and we need skill so KILBANE GET LOST

eirebhoy

07/09/2006, 5:20 PM

We need a forward looking team
Given
Finnan
Dunne
O'Brien
O'Shea
Duff
Reid
McGeady
?
Doyle
Keane

Now l am stuck for who to play on the left
eh, you have Duff and McGeady in your team and your stuck for someone on the left? :)

wizzbizz

07/09/2006, 6:00 PM

l would play mcgeady in the middle and yes sorry Duff on the left (not the right as l had stated).

dr_peepee

07/09/2006, 6:30 PM

There's so many permutations I can't select my onw personal 11.. Never mind predict Stans..

I'd only pick Harte if we're gonna "Go long" a bit more and play a simpler game, but with no real physical presence up front (As good as doyle is doing) and with Duff in front of him I'm not sure I'd run with Harte. If we're actually gonna play football I think I'd go with O'Shea at LB, with Andy Reid accomadated in the middle. However if we're gonna attack down either flank with Duff and McGeady and try get in behind their full backs more. I think Carr and Finnan as a primarily defensive full back unit would be best in that situation. There are few positions on the pitch that actualy demand a starter, aside from the obvious, so each selection has a number of condition further increasing the variables.. (I've gone cross eyed):(

I dunno.. As of this minute (And believe me it changes every time I give it some thought) I'd try

Given
Finnan, Dunne, O'Brien, O'Shea
A.Reid, S.Reid, Carlsey, Duff
Doyle, Keane

I'd give Duffer license to switch flanks with A.Reid and ask Reid to play a little deeper and recieve the ball from defenders, and quite not as a winger as such. This would require allot of understanding and awareness from S. Reid, Andy and Duffer. It might also require Robbie Keane coming deeper and wide right, which I've seen him do at spurs. If it's a case where Duff is being doubled up on I'd introduce McGeady to capitalise on the attention Duff is getting. I'm not sure how much better Carsley would fair in a defensive roll in this team, but he warrants a call given his experience, our recent performances and our distinct lack of options.

It's always a bad sign for any team when you can't ID the managers first 10 or 11... Even if you agree with his selection or not.

geysir

07/09/2006, 6:33 PM

It's a waste of time and space picking a team without O"Shea.
It's a cert that he will be selected in midfield.
Reluctantly or not, you have to put him in the team and select who else will fit in midfield.

With Harte fit
Finnan O'Brien Dunne Harte
A Reid S Reid O'Shea Duff
Doyle Keane

tricky_colour

07/09/2006, 6:48 PM

backstothewall

07/09/2006, 7:13 PM

wizzbizz

07/09/2006, 8:24 PM

---------------Given---------------

Finnan---O'Brien----Dunne---Painter

--------------Carsley--------------

-----------Reid-----Millar----------

-McGeady--------------------Duff-

---------------Keane--------------

Bring in Painter at LB from the U21's, he can't do much worse, and play it with the same formation as Chelsea have been doing for the past 2 seasons.

Why play millar in that position l would push mcgeady back to Millers position and bring keane back to Mcgeady position. Yes this might hinder keanes goalscoring chances but with Doyle up front to hold on to the ball l see the majority of our goals coming through doyles lay offs. We need to be creative, this would also give room for Reid to replace Mcgeady or O'Shea to replace Carsley from the bench.

highlight100

07/09/2006, 9:31 PM

gk - Given
lb - O'Shea (united seam happy to play him there so why not for us)
rb - Finnan
cb - Dunne and O'Brien (both had a superb game last sat)
lm - Duff
rm - Mc'Geady
cm - S Reid and Kilbane
cf - Doyle
cf - Morrisson (maybe a hour on the bench might smart Robbie up to the task)

backstothewall

07/09/2006, 9:46 PM

Why play millar in that position l would push mcgeady back to Millers position and bring keane back to Mcgeady position. Yes this might hinder keanes goalscoring chances but with Doyle up front to hold on to the ball l see the majority of our goals coming through doyles lay offs. We need to be creative, this would also give room for Reid to replace Mcgeady or O'Shea to replace Carsley from the bench.

Because McGeady plays as a winger for his club, and is a much more creative player than Keane. When he moved to the right wing against the dutch was the only time we have looked remotely dangerous in the last 180 minutes of football. He has a trick about him, can beat a fullback and get into the box.

As for Keane, he is top drawer. He has played very little football since May and was a bit rusty on Saturday, but he is still far and away a better play than Doyle, and is a great goalscorer.

Though i agree there are plenty o other options apart from miller in the miller, Ireland for example, but with his move to Sunderland he seems the most likely to be getting regular 1st team football

TerryPhelan

09/09/2006, 12:28 PM

One particular worry for the Czech game is players on bookings. Maybe someone could jog my memory on who exactly picked up bookings for us, but I remember Dunne and Steven Reid getting booked against Germany. Any misbehaviour from them against Cyprus and we could be in even greater trouble than ever when we face the Czechs.

Also, it might help to give a clearer picture if we know what Czechs, if any, got booked against Wales/Slovakia. Thanks!

Stuttgart88

09/09/2006, 1:05 PM

Bring in Painter at LB from the U21's, he can't do much worse, and play it with the same formation as Chelsea have been doing for the past 2 seasons.Painter hasn't played once yet this season for Brum. He's actually a centre-back but has been played at left-back. He was crap at Lb against the Swiss U21s a Tolka and from what I read he was crap last week against Belgium U21s. Still think he's the right man for Cyprus ? :)

Stuttgart88

09/09/2006, 1:06 PM

Stuttgart88

09/09/2006, 2:37 PM

Lee Carsley seems to have had a prominent role in Everton's thrashing of Liverpool. Anyone see the game & have anything to say about carsley's role & performance?

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0909/everton.html

geysir

09/09/2006, 3:08 PM

Also, it might help to give a clearer picture if we know what Czechs, if any, got booked against Wales/Slovakia. Thanks! No Czechs got booked in any of their 2 games.

shakermaker1982

09/09/2006, 5:03 PM

If Carsley's good form continues then he has to be called up in my opinion.

My team:

Given

Finnan Dunne O'Brien O'Shea

MacGeady S Reid A Reid Duff

Keane Doyle

what Stan will go for?

Given

Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan

S Reid O'Shea Kavanagh Duff

Keane Doyle

Stuttgart88

10/09/2006, 11:53 AM

Apart from O'Shea, who played well according to R5 Live, the only other Irish midfielders to figure in the English top flight yesterday were Carsley (influential in Everton's thrashing of Liverpool), Andy Reid (retired injured after 30 mins, but did start) and Alan Quinn (played last 10 minutes for Sheff Utd).

I'd love to hear an informed report on how Carsley did yesterday. My suspicion is that he's most effective anchoring a 5 man midfield as I'm not sure if he's got the legs for a conventional 442 at highest level. Just a suspicion mind as I've seen little of him in the past year.

But, Everton started this season brilliantly, finished 4th 2 yrs ago and were crap last year. Carsley missed all of the crap season. OK, you can say that they had no quality upfront last year but I'd love to ask David Moyes if Carsley's presence is a factor. Staunton should be on the phone to him.

NeilMcD

10/09/2006, 11:55 AM

Totally agree I think we should put him in front of our back four and let our flair players do the rest i.e Duff, A. Reid, Mc Geady, Keane Doyle and have Stephen Reid for the legs. I think that would give us balance.

HolylandsMan

10/09/2006, 5:24 PM

I'd agree with shakermakers team. I was impressed with Carr against the Germans but Finnan isn't the same player when not playing at right back and its worth upsetting one of our confirmed class players to take a chance on the eratic Carr.

The main problem with the 2 Reids in the centre of midfield is perhaps the lack of a sitting midfielder but I'd try it against Cyprus at least. Nothing can be as bad as Kilbane and O'Shea.

shakermaker1982

10/09/2006, 6:12 PM

aye the 2 Reid's in the middle is a risk worth taking against Cyprus but Andy's proneness to injuries now worries me - 30 minutes or so yesterday must be a huge disappointment for the lad and Dowie. He wasn't this inactive or injury prone for Forest.

tricky_colour

10/09/2006, 6:21 PM

Carsley played a part in 2 of Evertons 3 goals yesterday, a flick on header, and the shot the keeper fumbled. I only saw highlights
but some Liverpool player who was interviewed praised the Everton midfield.

theworm2345

10/09/2006, 6:42 PM

Stuttgart88

11/09/2006, 7:42 AM

Carsley got rated 7/10 by The Times. Usually I'd pay a bit of attention to The Times' ratings but they also gave Kilbane 7/10 which is odd given that he now plays for Wigan!

Istabraq

11/09/2006, 8:10 AM

Carsley has to get in on the form he is showing. No question. We could have done with him in Stuttgart.

Given
Carr
O Brien
Dunne
Finnan

McGeady
Reid
Carsley
Duff

Doyle
Keane.

tetsujin1979

11/09/2006, 9:48 AM

According to Dowie on MOTD2 last night, Andy Reid had to come off with a hamstring injury.
Just as an aside on Reid's fitness, when Dowie was at oldham, he took the fitness coach from the local rugby league side to bring up the player's fitness levels, and brought the same guy with him to Palace. A palace-following mate of mine said he was the main reason the players were able to turn around their season and get into the play offs. I'm not sure if the same guy is at Charlton now with Dowie, but I'd imagine he is and will work on all the player's fitness levels, which can only be good news for Reid and Ireland.

NeilMcD

11/09/2006, 10:13 AM

Carsley got rated 7/10 by The Times. Usually I'd pay a bit of attention to The Times' ratings but they also gave Kilbane 7/10 which is odd given that he now plays for Wigan!

Well a lot of people did say it was Kilbanes best game for Everton in years.

tricky_colour

11/09/2006, 3:44 PM

He was rated 8 and 8.1 on Sky.

gufct

11/09/2006, 4:24 PM

Carsley had a great game on saturday and had a hand in 2 of the goals.I would play him on the 7th .

geysir

11/09/2006, 5:15 PM

Well a lot of people did say it was Kilbanes best game for Everton in years.
I hope Stan doesn't read the Times and take the rating to heart.

tricky_colour

19/09/2006, 1:11 AM

I know this is a bit of a 'wacky' idea, but I often wonder if Finnan could do a job in central midfield for us?
Reasons.

a) Reliable.

b) Comfortable on the ball.

c) Keeps it simple.

d) Can see a pass

e) Can make a pass.

Yes I have my doubts about him in that position, but then I have my doubts the rest of our central midfield options too!! I mean he is normally played out of position anyway, so he would be less out of position there.

Stuttgart88

19/09/2006, 7:52 AM

Finnan may be better than some we have but my mantra-like obsession at the moment is simple:

Play central midfielders in central midfield.

A player who doesn't have the awareness or instincts required will ultimately be shown up in central midfield.

I think we should play Finnan where he plays best.

My current thinking is:

Finnan--Dunne--O'Brien --AN Other (Kilbane or O'Shea, Harte injured I expect)
---Reid---Carsley
Doyle--Kav--Duff
------Robbie----

Why?

Carsley to keep things calm and simple. If he's good enough to do a job against Sissoko and Alonso he should be good enough to play Cyprus.

Reid to keep things solid, but having freeedom to get forward.

Doyle & Duff offering pace and trickery and having instructions to get forward and run at the box. Kavanagh, benefitting from the support of Reid & Carsley behind him, to have attacking license to play Robbie in, avoiding the need for Robbie to drop as deep as he does to get the ball.

The full backs will have license to get forward too.

As I see it, whilst on paper you're playing only one forward, the reality in Germany was that our forwards rarely had the ball in advanced positions anyway. In this selection, we have an orthodox back four, a solid core in midfield and an attacking "diamond" of Kav, Doyle, Duff and Robbie. Everyone will be naturally suited to the role he's given, except maybe Robbie who's not a natural line-leader, but I think it has its merits.

I think it certainly addresses our misfunctioning central midfield & I also think it keeps our best attacking players closer together. In Stuttgart all our attacking resources were isolated for most of the match.

However, deep down, I think 4-4-2 will be best, simply because I don't believe our management has the nous to explain how this'll work!

Comments appreciated.

youngirish

19/09/2006, 9:09 AM

I would play a more adventurous team against the Cypriots than the Czechs:

Given (or Kenny if Given still injured)
Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan
McGeady Reid Miller (or Ireland if he gets a few games) Duff
Keane Doyle

Against the Czechs I'd drop Miller and play Kavanagh.

tetsujin1979

19/09/2006, 9:17 AM

Stuttgart88

19/09/2006, 9:28 AM

Too early for Tabb. Though I agree that we can afford to be more adventurous against Cyprus than the Czechs, it doesn't make sense to me to promote a U21 on the basis of one full game for Coventry.

A Slovak guy posted his assessment of the Slovakia side on chatsoccer recently. He said the 6-1 against Cyprus flattered them as every chance Slovakia had, they took. It's not long ago that Cyprus beat Wales 1-0 and should have beaten us. I'm not saying that we should be afraid of Cyprus but I don't think unnecessary experimentation is warranted either.

I think Tabb will be a very good player in due course. soccerc correctly predicted that he'd be more likely to impress in midfield than as a forward, where Givens deployed him.

youngirish

19/09/2006, 9:32 AM

Tabb got man of the match for Coventry against Leeds at the weekend playing in a wide role, despite the fact that I've seen him play as a striker for the U-21s. could be worth a shot against the Cypriots?

He should definitely get a run out before the likes of Alan O'Brien or Terry Dixon but unfortunately I have a feeling the current management only watch the Premiership and Sunderland.

Tabb is very talented. I've rated him highly for a while. I think Coventry have a great chance at promotion this season so we could see him in the Premiership next year.

I also think Staunton should have Supple in the squad ahead of Henderson as I think he's the better keeper and would be surprised if he doesn't get more matches between now and the qualifiers than Henderson or at least the same amount (0).

On a side note considering our lack of a decent holding/defensive midfielder I believe Michael Doyle also at Coventry should be looked at in a future friendly as he might help to fill a gap until J O'Brien or Garvan mature or an alternative option becomes available.