Advice on the Laws of the Game

[The Ref]

If anyone would like advice on the laws of the game, I will answer them how I see them.

I'm a referee myself with over twenty years experence, and like everybody else I have made some clangers:o , but every clanger I make, I learn something new, and hopefully I will never make the same mistake again;).

I will not get into slanging matches about referees and mistakes they may have made. Referees are only human and make mistakes (like players and managers alike) only they don't have a team to cover for them.

[the 12 th man]

I'm going to sticky this for a while and see how it goes as its an important thread that might answer some of the questions that spring up here every season.

Keep the questions civil and just about football.

PS: Thanks Ref.

[bigguy]

hi ref,
just 1 on the quick free kick, when a player wants to take it quick and he kicks the ball off an oponent who is in the way,a yellow card i thought but alot of junior football refs dont use it, is it ever brought to notice at meetings??
well done btw i hope this thread will be of benefit to us all.

[The Ref]

hi ref,
just 1 on the quick free kick, when a player wants to take it quick and he kicks the ball off an oponent who is in the way,a yellow card i thought but alot of junior football refs dont use it, is it ever brought to notice at meetings??
well done btw i hope this thread will be of benefit to us all.

Bigguy

Two conditions must be met before a caution (yellow card) can be given:

1. The referee must be happy to allow a quick free kick and;

2. The player must be deliberately trying to stop a quick free kick.

If the player who is not 10 yards away is there unintentionally (i.e. he is not deliberately attempting to stop the quick free kick) then no yellow card is to issue, in fact the referee can allow play to continue.

If the player is attempting to stop the quick free kick then a yellow card should be shown.

If the referee is not happy for the free kick to proceed e.g. a player is injured or referee is not in a good position, he is under no obligation to allow it. I personally allow quick free kicks as often as possible but what annoys me is the attacking team attempting to hit an opposition player who is not ten yards away to get him cautioned.

I hope this clarifies this for you

[Roadend]

Will the LDMC be bringing the refs up to speed on the offside rule. A ref at the weekend was lost. Ball played forward by player for team A, team A attacker offside, Team B defender tried to get head to ball but just grazes it, team A forward runs onto it, still offside from the initial pass. Ref deems him onside as team b defender touched it. Team B show amazing restraint after pathetic call.

[Goals4fun]

has the rule changed inrelation to offside. if a a ball is played through to a striker and another striker is walking back from an offside position and does not make an attempt to get involved what is the rule. The players in question were 20 yards apart and you could not mistake who the ball was played to and who was going for it. It was mid way inside the half so the keeper was not obstructed??? i expect that this should have been play on ?

[Roadend]

Is that in relation to my post? If so, no your situation has nothing to do with mine.

[Old keeper]

Will the LDMC be bringing the refs up to speed on the offside rule. A ref at the weekend was lost. Ball played forward by player for team A, team A attacker offside, Team B defender tried to get head to ball but just grazes it, team A forward runs onto it, still offside from the initial pass. Ref deems him onside as team b defender touched it. Team B show amazing restraint after pathetic call.

Hi Roadend

The LDMC has no part to play in discussing rules of the game with referees, this is a matter for the referees society. But if clubs feel strongly they can write to the LDMC and we can bring their concerns to the Refs.

I will let the expert answer your query on the offside rule, as i would probably just muddy the water

[Roadend]

Just one other question Old Keeper, he insisted on not giving the offside till the offending player touched the ball, or at least he said he was doing this after about 20 minutes. Its junior football without linesmen, surely this will just cause a lot more problems.

[the 12 th man]

Just one other question Old Keeper, he insisted on not giving the offside till the offending player touched the ball, or at least he said he was doing this after about 20 minutes. Its junior football without linesmen, surely this will just cause a lot more problems.


Roadend,I think Old Keeper has suggested that "The Ref" is the person to answer your specific queries about the rules of the game so I'd suggest you stop directing your questions towards him (Old Keeper) and we'll await the Refs answer :ball: .

[smellyfeet]

If anyone would like advice on the laws of the game, I will answer them how I see them.
.

Ref.
What is the rule on the above. There are some refs that stop games every couple of minuites cos players are swearing. Now i understand the fact that you can't go around the pitch using bad language but just say a player makes a mistake and say's B0llox or something like that. Is it in the rules that they are to be booked or what is the story....on telly players are constantly telling the ref to Fcuk off and nothing is done.

[Old keeper]

Just one other question Old Keeper, he insisted on not giving the offside till the offending player touched the ball, or at least he said he was doing this after about 20 minutes. Its junior football without linesmen, surely this will just cause a lot more problems.

Hi Roadend

The ref will keep us all informed so I will wait for him too. but remember refs are not infallable and can make mistakes as well and like a keepers the mistakes are usually catastrophic. so while the rules can be explained the human factor is always there.

[The Ref]

Will the LDMC be bringing the refs up to speed on the offside rule. A ref at the weekend was lost. Ball played forward by player for team A, team A attacker offside, Team B defender tried to get head to ball but just grazes it, team A forward runs onto it, still offside from the initial pass. Ref deems him onside as team b defender touched it. Team B show amazing restraint after pathetic call.

The "new" offside rule (it changed for last season), is that no offence has taken place until the player in an offside position actually plays the ball (the act of just being there is not an offence). However if the last mans (usually the keeper) view is obstructed by a player in an offside position that player is deemed offside. From what you said the referee was right under the laws to allow play to continue, but in practice 99% of referees would have blown him up for offside.

Just so you know, these laws and their interpretation are set by FIFA and they have caused uproar with referees up and down the country, unfortunately we only uphold the laws, we don't make them.

Also may I reiterate what Old Keeper said "The LDMC has no part to play in discussing rules of the game with referees, this is a matter for the referees society. But if clubs feel strongly they can write to the LDMC and we can bring their concerns to the Refs." The FAI and the Referees Society are the competent authorities for keeping the referees up to date with the rules.

[The Ref]

has the rule changed inrelation to offside. if a a ball is played through to a striker and another striker is walking back from an offside position and does not make an attempt to get involved what is the rule. The players in question were 20 yards apart and you could not mistake who the ball was played to and who was going for it. It was mid way inside the half so the keeper was not obstructed??? i expect that this should have been play on ?

The "new" offside rule (it changed for last season), is that no offence has taken place until the player in an offside position actually plays the ball (the act of just being there is not an offence). If the player who was offside gains no advantage from being in that position then he is not offside.

[The Ref]

Ref.
What is the rule on the above. There are some refs that stop games every couple of minuites cos players are swearing. Now i understand the fact that you can't go around the pitch using bad language but just say a player makes a mistake and say's B0llox or something like that. Is it in the rules that they are to be booked or what is the story....on telly players are constantly telling the ref to Fcuk off and nothing is done.

There are two rules this can come under

1. Discent - yellow card

2. A player uses offensive or insulting or abusive language and/or gestures - straight red card (this was once foul and abusive lauguage)

Its really a judgement call, I would agree that some referees get hot and bothered about this, I was at a game in Dublin last year and a player missed an open goal from 1yard and roared "ah B0ll0x" and the referee sent him off, technically he was right, but come on!

The rule is if the if the referee deems it as disscent to one of his discision (or lack off) he may stop the game and caution the player.

If he feels it is more serious and is offensive or insulting he must stop the game and dismiss the player.

He should never stop the game, give a free kick and not issue a card.

Is this what you where looking for and does this help?

[pineapple stu]

I remember someone saying to me once that a certain amount of - non-directional - swearing shuld be let go as it's just the players' way of letting off steam. So the example you mention above should be ignored, but if a player aggressively said "Boll0x" after a penalty decision, that's dissent and should be booked.

[The Ref]

I remember someone saying to me once that a certain amount of - non-directional - swearing shuld be let go as it's just the players' way of letting off steam. So the example you mention above should be ignored, but if a player aggressively said "Boll0x" after a penalty decision, that's dissent and should be booked.

I agree, but some referees don't have that thick of skin. Even if a player shouts "Fcuk off ref" after a penalty decision I generally let it go, I've played a bit so I remember what its like. However if a player makes a run torward me then I will take action.

[The Ref]

Hi Roadend

The ref will keep us all informed so I will wait for him too. but remember refs are not infallable and can make mistakes as well and like a keepers the mistakes are usually catastrophic. so while the rules can be explained the human factor is always there.

Thanks for the support Old Keeper.

Everybody should remember that a referee acts as judge, jury and in the case of red cards Executioner. Of course we get it wrong on occasion and as Old Keeper said the results can be catastrophic. Another thing, if I'm having a bad game, I know it, 22 others on the pitch telling me doesn’t help.

When you have a bad game, there’s no worse feeling in the world, even one error (that changes the course of the game) can sully your mood. In saying that there is no better feeling in the world when you perform well.

I personally don't do it for the money, and contrary to popular belief most referees don't either. The match fee, which seems at first glance quite generous, is no reward for the stick that you put up with week in, week out. When players and managers appreciate you it makes it all worthwhile.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to post their questions to the site and as I said in my introduction I will answer them as best I can. If I don’t explain something and you want clarification, just ask, I will endeavour to give you what your looking for, it is only through dialogue that we can all understand one another’s point of view.

Just for the record, this has not been given the support of the FAI or the Referees Society (I have not sought it, nor do I intend to seek it).

The life of a referee isn’t easy, but maybe this will give us all a better understanding (and a bit of fun along the way)

Talk Soon

The Ref

[soccerc]

The FAI and the Referees Society are the competent authorities.....

Paradox

[The Ref]

Just one other question Old Keeper, he insisted on not giving the offside till the offending player touched the ball, or at least he said he was doing this after about 20 minutes. Its junior football without linesmen, surely this will just cause a lot more problems.

There are two reasons that there are no referees assistants (linesmen) in Junior football

1. A shortage of people "mad enough" to become referees

2. Most Junior clubs resent having to pay match fees, never mind having to pay more for assistants.

The number of referees has dwindled in recent times, old keeper could tell the number of active referees in Limerick (LDMC) (I don't know) and I'm pretty sure, that if he checked the names of referees five years ago, there would be few new names (maybe two or three). This is the same all over the country.

A worrying aspect is the amount of verbal abuse vented toward the referee and in worst case seranio assaults, thankfully the latter is not prevelant but if the various leagues don't keep it in check it will become a real problem in five to ten years time.

From what I can gather, the LDMC (which from reading through th threads is where the majority are from) is a progressive and well run league. Of course players, administrators and referees will have disagreements, but thats the nature of sport, if we all had the same opinion, life would be boring.

A final word to Old Keeper - your web-site is great, one of the best in the country. Your league and Leinster Senior League have put a lot of effort and time into putting a quick and easy line of communication out to the public - keep up the good work.

The Ref

[The Ref]

Paradox

OK, I will accept the FAI, but the Society Branch that I'm involved with is quite good - agree to disagree?

[DmanDmythDledge]

What's the rule concerning calling for the ball? Are you not allowed call "yours" or "mine"?

[The Ref]

What's the rule concerning calling for the ball? Are you not allowed call "yours" or "mine"?

You can call "mine" or "yours" and no infringement occurs unless it puts an opposing player off.

If so it is deemed to be impeding the progress of a player (covered under Law 12) and is punishable by an indirect free kick i.e. a goal cannot be scored directly from the free kick.

I hope this helps

[Roadend]

The "new" offside rule (it changed for last season), is that no offence has taken place until the player in an offside position actually plays the ball (the act of just being there is not an offence). However if the last mans (usually the keeper) view is obstructed by a player in an offside position that player is deemed offside. From what you said the referee was right under the laws to allow play to continue, but in practice 99% of referees would have blown him up for offside.


So you are telling me that given that there was only 1 attacker in an offside position from the pass forward, which was played to him directly, despite the efforts of the defender to cut out the pass, under the laws of the game he's onside. I don't think so.

[The Ref]

So you are telling me that given that there was only 1 attacker in an offside position from the pass forward, which was played to him directly, despite the efforts of the defender to cut out the pass, under the laws of the game he's onside. I don't think so.

Roadend, I stand corrected,

The Law that deals with Offside states that The definitions of elements of involvement in active play are as follows:

* Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate.


* Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent.


* Gaining an advantage by being in that position means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position.

The third element covers your situation, I apologise.

This came up at a referees meeting in the past and a EL referee stated what I told you, however the rules has it covered and I was wrong, but I did say 99% of referees would have blown for it.

Once again apologies.

The Ref:o

[Old keeper]

Hi I have put the offside demo back up on the website homepage www.ldmc.ie there are about 20 examples and it should make things easier just click the red highlighted area on the top right

Let me know if it is any help or if you think it is worth while leaving up

[The Ref]

Thanks Old Keeper - well put together, great to see a League making available a practical tool for players/referees/coaches etc

[zizu's head]

You can call "mine" or "yours" and no infringement occurs unless it puts an opposing player off.

If so it is deemed to be impeding the progress of a player (covered under Law 12) and is punishable by an indirect free kick i.e. a goal cannot be scored directly from the free kick.

I hope this helps

I was under the impression that any call like 'Mine', 'Yours' etc, was deemed to be an infringement!! (i.e. you must call a name?) :confused:

[The Ref]

I was under the impression that any call like 'Mine', 'Yours' etc, was deemed to be an infringement!! (i.e. you must call a name?) :confused:

This is a common misconception; it was a rule some years ago (in the 80’s) and was specifically mentioned in the rules. When I started refereeing in 1985 the rule was in force, but sometime between then and 1992 (the oldest rule book I can find) the Law was scrapped.

[zizu's head]

This is a common misconception; it was a rule some years ago (in the 80’s) and was specifically mentioned in the rules. When I started refereeing in 1985 the rule was in force, but sometime between then and 1992 (the oldest rule book I can find) the Law was scrapped.

Does that not leave it up in the air as to whether or not the call causes an obstruction to the opposing player? How do you decide?

[The Ref]

Does that not leave it up in the air as to whether or not the call causes an obstruction to the opposing player? How do you decide?

No I don't think so, let's say two defenders are going for a ball - no attacker is within twenty yards of the ball and one calls mine, you could never give a free kick there.

If an attacker and defender are jumping and the defender (or attacker) calls mine, you have to look did it put the opposing player off, in most cases it doesn't so why give a free. If the player hears "mine" and doesn't challange then I would award an indirect free kick.

I would apply the same logic if a player uses any other tatic to put the opponent off e.g. screaming "AHHHHHH" or calling the players name, I would award a free kick. All in all it's a judgement call and I really don't find it difficult to police.

[Old keeper]

Thanks Old Keeper - well put together, great to see a League making available a practical tool for players/referees/coaches etc

Hi

The link is to the FIFA site not ours so while we would like to take credit for it we can't. There is some good stuff out there for clubs and refs but the problem is a forum to share and impart the info. I would hope to have a few competitions over the year on the laws of the game our league sponsors ERREA have agreed to give us tracksuits and gear as prizes. this would culminate in a pub quiz for teams.

[The Ref]

Hi

The link is to the FIFA site not ours so while we would like to take credit for it we can't. There is some good stuff out there for clubs and refs but the problem is a forum to share and impart the info. I would hope to have a few competitions over the year on the laws of the game our league sponsors ERREA have agreed to give us tracksuits and gear as prizes. this would culminate in a pub quiz for teams.

Old Keeper,

If you want help with questions etc, send a private message and I'm sure we can arrange something.

The Ref:)

[Interested]

I agree, but some referees don't have that thick of skin. Even if a player shouts "Fcuk off ref" after a penalty decision I generally let it go, I've played a bit so I remember what its like. However if a player makes a run torward me then I will take action.

Surely Bad Languadge is a part of everyday life for most people and in my opinion a player who says "******" or "**** it" after missing a goalscoring chance should be accepted by the referee, as in most cases the bad languadge is directed at the player himself.
If however another player calls the culprit a useless ****** or worse a quite word with the offender should suffice.
If it is more severe than that then a card would should solve the problem.
Most cards issued in todays game are for dissent to a referees decision.
I agree that in most cases they are deserved but feel a little common sense from the referee would go a long way. I am not saying that dissent should go unpunished in most cases just some.

[The Ref]

Surely Bad Languadge is a part of everyday life for most people and in my opinion a player who says "******" or "**** it" after missing a goalscoring chance should be accepted by the referee, as in most cases the bad languadge is directed at the player himself.
If however another player calls the culprit a useless ****** or worse a quite word with the offender should suffice.
If it is more severe than that then a card would should solve the problem.
Most cards issued in todays game are for dissent to a referees decision.
I agree that in most cases they are deserved but feel a little common sense from the referee would go a long way. I am not saying that dissent should go unpunished in most cases just some.

I agree with nearly everything you say, but as I said if the player makes a run at me, I will then take action.

You say "If however another player calls the culprit a useless ****** or worse a quite word with the offender should suffice.",

If the player who is on the receiving end of the of the abuse takes exception or the abuse is racially motivated, again I will take action, in the latter case, with a dismissal (straight red card)

[pineapple stu]

Here's one for you to clear up which is causing a small bit of debate on the eL forum - last night's game between Drogheda and Start went to penalties. Everyone took one, we reached 10-10 with one miss apiece, so we went around to the start again. Do the rules expicitly state the penalty takers must go in the same order as the first time?

[MitreSize5]

Just a note

Any of the two clubs could have requested linesmen but they would have to be paid for and also there is the availibility to look at

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MOD EDIT:This is for"The Ref" if he wants to reply.
Please keep your Refereeing questions to this thread.
----------------------


Old keeper,

I'm not asking you to comment on the performance of the ref as I know you cant. I thought he rode Pike, the boro would probably say they got the 50 50 calls but these things tend to pan out of a season so Im not too worried about it.

But was he correct in awarding the Boro a penalty after Bennis got sent off. For those who weren't there Bennis had the ball in his hands, Barry as usual was up in his face and then some thing happened that got him sent off. Was at the other side of the pitch so didn't know if it was a headbutt or kick or if there was anythihg at all in it. Anyway Bennis walks, kicks the ball away like a two year old and then to the suprise of everyone inthe ground including the boro he give a penalty.

Ive no idea on the ruling here but the pike secertary who know the rule book like the back of his hand was going ape **** on the side line. To be fair no one else in the groound had a clue. Can you clear it up.

[Old keeper]

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MOD EDIT:This is for"The Ref" if he wants to reply.
Please keep your Refereeing questions to this thread.
----------------------


Old keeper,

I'm not asking you to comment on the performance of the ref as I know you cant. I thought he rode Pike, the boro would probably say they got the 50 50 calls but these things tend to pan out of a season so Im not too worried about it.

But was he correct in awarding the Boro a penalty after Bennis got sent off. For those who weren't there Bennis had the ball in his hands, Barry as usual was up in his face and then some thing happened that got him sent off. Was at the other side of the pitch so didn't know if it was a headbutt or kick or if there was anythihg at all in it. Anyway Bennis walks, kicks the ball away like a two year old and then to the suprise of everyone inthe ground including the boro he give a penalty.

Ive no idea on the ruling here but the pike secertary who know the rule book like the back of his hand was going ape **** on the side line. To be fair no one else in the groound had a clue. Can you clear it up.

The ref will no doubt clear it up but I would imagine if the keeper had the ball and headbutted a player it would result in a straight red and a direct free kick or if the offence was inside the penalty area, a penalty.

If a defender headbutted an attacker outside the area would anyone complain if a direct free kick was awarded?

[The Ref]

I presume Bennis is the goalkeeper.

If the ball was in play and he struck the opposing player, the decision is a direct free kick, or if it happened in the penalty area, a penalty kick. Either way it is a straight red-card.

If the ball was not in play (lets say a throw in) , and the player strikes an opponent, it is a straight red-card and the game is restarted in the same way it would have if the offence had not occured, in this example, a throw in.

From what you have saidm this is the course of action I would have taken:

1. Bennis should be dismissed for striking an opponent;
2. The game is restarted with a penalty kick to the opponent of Bennis team (I'm not sure who was who).

I hope this clarifies the matter.

The Ref

[The Ref]

Here's one for you to clear up which is causing a small bit of debate on the eL forum - last night's game between Drogheda and Start went to penalties. Everyone took one, we reached 10-10 with one miss apiece, so we went around to the start again. Do the rules expicitly state the penalty takers must go in the same order as the first time?

In the Laws of the game it specifically states "If, after both teams have taken five kicks, both have scored the same number of goals, or have not scored any goals, kicks continue to be taken in the same order until one team has scored a goal more than the other from the same number of kicks"

So in answer to you question yes the rules expicitly state the penalty takers must go in the same order as the first round.

The Ref

[the 12 th man]

In the Laws of the game it specifically states "If, after both teams have taken five kicks, both have scored the same number of goals, or have not scored any goals, kicks continue to be taken in the same order until one team has scored a goal more than the other from the same number of kicks"

So in answer to you question yes the rules expicitly state the penalty takers must go in the same order as the first.

The Ref


Big thanks to the Ref for his input so far as his answers have been very concise and helpful.

Bear in mind The Ref is trying to clarify stuff that causes mayhem here
every week.

[pineapple stu]

In the Laws of the game it specifically states "If, after both teams have taken five kicks, both have scored the same number of goals, or have not scored any goals, kicks continue to be taken in the same order until one team has scored a goal more than the other from the same number of kicks"

So in answer to you question yes the rules expicitly state the penalty takers must go in the same order as the first round.

The Ref
That reads to me that if, after five penalties, we're still level, the teams continue taking one penalty each in the same order (i.e first Drogheda, then Start). It doesn't mention what happens after 11 penalties though?

[The Ref]

It's amazing how two people can read the same thing and come up with different conclusions.

My interpretation, and the general consensus around refereeing circles is that this provision provides that the teams must go in the same rotation as the first round. Personally I have never been involved in a game that needed to go a second round of kicks but I can tell you that it has been vigorously debated by Referees a number of times over the years and the conclusion has always been the same.

I will bring it to the table in my Referees Society Branch again and see if the opinion is still the same.

[pineapple stu]

It's the fact that it mentions "after five kicks", not "after every player remaining on the field of play has taken a kick" which leads me to my logic.

[larrywhite]

Heres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_shootout_(football)) another source of info but that too doesnt say anything about the order in which they are taken.

It does however mention what has to happen when a team has finished the game with less than 11. Very interesting and not what I thought was supposed to happen.

[The Ref]

Heres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_shootout_(football)) another source of info but that too doesnt say anything about the order in which they are taken.

It does however mention what has to happen when a team has finished the game with less than 11. Very interesting and not what I thought was supposed to happen.

You saw commentators mention this during the world cup; it was introduced to stop teams who had a player sent off from having what was perceived to be an advantage.

Regarding the order kicks should be taken after everyone has taken one, I have contacted a number of colleagues around the country and they all agree that it should be in the same order, however between 10 of us (with a combined experience of over 100 years refereeing - we should really get out more), none of us had experience of it going the full way round.

[RouteOne]

Ref,

Heres another one regarding penalty shoot outs .
I believe the rule is that the penalty is over once the ball stops going forward or
goes outwards from goal.
What happens if a penalty in a penalty shoot out rebounds off the upright/crossbar
and then comes outward but on its way out strikes the keeper and goes into the goal.
Does this goal stand ?

thanks

[The Ref]

Ref,

Heres another one regarding penalty shoot outs .
I believe the rule is that the penalty is over once the ball stops going forward or
goes outwards from goal.
What happens if a penalty in a penalty shoot out rebounds off the upright/crossbar
and then comes outward but on its way out strikes the keeper and goes into the goal.
Does this goal stand ?

thanks

This was first brought to light during the 1986 World Cup in a game between France and Brazil. At that time a penalty was deemed to be completed when the ball was no longer travelling forward. During the penalty shotout, Bellone,a French player hit the post and it rebounded back about two yards and hit Carlos, the Brazil keeper in the back and went in.

The referee allowed the goal, but under the laws of the game at that time was wrong. A lot of media picked up on it, which prompted FIFA to change that particular rule.

Now the under the procedure for deciding the winner of a match with kicks from the penalty mark:

“Unless otherwise stated, the relevant Laws of the Game and international F.A. Board Decisions apply when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken”

which infers from Law 14 The Penalty Kick

“When a penalty kick is taken during the normal course of play, or time has been extended at half-time or full time to allow a penalty kick to be taken or retaken, a goal is awarded if, before passing between the goalposts and under the crossbar the ball touches either or both of the goalposts and/or the crossbar, and/or the goalkeeper”

So yes the Goal should stand.

[DmanDmythDledge]

This was first brought to light during the 1986 World Cup in a game between France and Brazil. At that time a penalty was deemed to be completed when the ball was no longer travelling forward. During the penalty shotout, Bellone,a French player hit the post and it rebounded back about two yards and hit Carlos, the Brazil keeper in the back and went in.

The referee allowed the goal, but under the laws of the game at that time was wrong. A lot of media picked up on it, which prompted FIFA to change that particular rule.

Now the under the procedure for deciding the winner of a match with kicks from the penalty mark:

“Unless otherwise stated, the relevant Laws of the Game and international F.A. Board Decisions apply when kicks from the penalty mark are being taken”

which infers from Law 14 The Penalty Kick

“When a penalty kick is taken during the normal course of play, or time has been extended at half-time or full time to allow a penalty kick to be taken or retaken, a goal is awarded if, before passing between the goalposts and under the crossbar the ball touches either or both of the goalposts and/or the crossbar, and/or the goalkeeper”

So yes the Goal should stand.
But would it not count if it was in a penalty shoot out?

[The Ref]

But would it not count if it was in a penalty shoot out?

Yes it would,

As the only time this would need to be invoked is when the penalty is the last kick of the half (first or second). The directive is that you follow ALL the rules for a penalty kick during a shootout. A penalty kick is a shootout is in effect, exactly the same as a penalty that is taken as the last kick of the game therefore you follow the same rule.