Ireland 0 - Holland 4 Reaction

[Seano]

What do you mean a one may show? Are you saying no other players contributed? I can suggest Shay Given V Iran , McAteer home and away v Holland, Matt Holland and Robbie Keane and Harte all made significant contributions also among others. And not forgetting we were blessed with luck the home games v Portugal and Holland as we could have been overrun in the first half hour. That one man team thing, sounds like a Dunphy quote.

[fergalr]

Lets not go there. Suffice to say that inthe golden era we qualified 3 times out of 4 and were unbeaten and unlucky on the failed attempt. Since then we've qualifier once out of 5. Sounds like a downhill trend to me.

[gustavo]

sion?

As for the muppets that were booing/jeering robben last night cos he plays for chelsea:rolleyes:

Whats worse is that Maloney condoned it on RTE saying "Robben is getting a lot of booing , which is understandable"

[Seano]

Lets not go there. Suffice to say that inthe golden era we qualified 3 times out of 4 and were unbeaten and unlucky on the failed attempt. Since then we've qualifier once out of 5. Sounds like a downhill trend to me.

Fair enough point, but finally when we look like we may possibily have reversed the trend, what happens, we sack the manager all for the sake of one player.....anyway no point in getting into this as it just getting off the subject of the thread.

[shakermaker1982]

I know Bobby Robson is supposed to be a mentor for Stan but with his poor health would it be a good idea to bring a wise head in the meantime to steady the ship and ease the pressure off the inexperienced manager?

[keenanboy]

Management is all about maximising your resources, however limited they may be. Getting the best out of an average bunch....Martin O'Neill did it with Celtic for years, with the exception of Larsson the rest were fairly average run of the mill players. But he succeeded in getting them to punch constistently above their own weight...why? Man-management, people skills and an intolerance for anybody not giving 100%.

I agree with many posters on here on Steve Carr...I think he's a negative influence on the squad and he never got up the line with McGeady. Kilbane is Kilbane, a workhorse but nothing more. If I have a full squad to chose from this would be my team for Stuttgart.

1. Given, no argument here at any level a top class keeper

2. Finnan, a no-nonsense defender, good on the ball and supportive in attack
3. O'Shea, a few disagreements expected here, but I think he's played his best stuff for United at this position.
4. Dunne, has copped on big-time to return to form as seen against Holland in 2001. Very solid, doesn't fanny around on the ball and gives 100%
5. andy O'Brien, only because I can't think of anyone else. If Harte comes in a t left full I reckon O'shea would get the nod in centre.

6. Steven Reid, game passed him by a bit last night, but needs to grab the bull by the horns, was content to let Kav be the creative one. WTF? Think he can still rise to it.
7. Duff, say no more. New lease of life at Newcastle will benefit Ireland
8. Andy Reid, ok so he could be in better shape. For all we know he could well be. Best creative player we have, intelligent user of the ball.
11. McGeedy, has been terrific for Celtic and had a good game last night. Capable of performing at international level.

10. Robbie Keane, our only proven goalscorer, seems to be coming into his prime.
9. Kevin Doyle, ex-LOI player who wears his heart on his sleeve. Take him anyday before bling bling clinton.

[eirebhoy]

At least this will put an end to the clamour for Kilbane to be played at left-back.
McGeady was our most creative player in an attacking sense, but he didn't put in the graft defensively and I'm not sure he has the defensive know-how to do so. It will be a risk trying to accommodate both him and Duff in the same team.
McGeady is fantastic defensively. While Duff tracks back and closes down opponents, McGeady is the type that tracks back and goes in for the tackle at every opportunity. His work rate over the 90 minutes is top notch.

As for the game, how many people said Kerr's wins against the likes of Czech Republic meant nothing? That couldn't be more true for this game. Who actually expected anything other than a defeat? I had never been so sure of an Ireland defeat in years and tipped Holland on a few betting forums.

I have to watch the game again on tape as I didn't see much from the north terrace (all the action was down the south for the 90 minutes). The centre back partnership was a shambles as expected. O'Shea and O'Brien both need a Cunningham type player beside them to know what they're doing (O'Shea probably needs Cannavaro). I was looking at them last night and even I could have lobbed a ball over them to set up a goal, they had no organisation.

Kavanagh had his chance last night to get into the team and he hasn't taken it. He's almost 33 now and his international career looks to be all but over. Pity he couldn't produce his club form for Ireland.

Liam Miller is certainly in the shop window. His work rate against Celtic in a friendly and last night against Holland was something I never seen from Miller. I would have described him as a bit of a bottler but he wasn't afraid to get stuck in last night. He can still make it on the international stage imo.

Elliott and Doyle looked good up front and I'd have Morrison now as my 4th choice. I just don't like him at all as a player. Doyle won more in the air last night than Morrison could dream of. :)

I am not in the slightest bit disappointed with last night. We have a small population so we can't do without so many players. Dunne, Duff, Keane, Reid, Given, Ireland, J.O'Brien and Harte will all play big parts in the qualifiers.


Whats worse is that Maloney condoned it on RTE saying "Robben is getting a lot of booing , which is understandable"
It is understandable as he's known worldwide as a diver. If he didn't play in the premiership he wouldn't have been booed though. Van Persie wasn't booed so I assume the main reason he was booed was because of his cheating.

btw - I seen Glenn Roeder last night. Hopefully he'll give A.O'Brien a chance in the first team as he's 21 and needs the games at this stage.

[Ash]

btw - I seen Glenn Roeder last night. Hopefully he'll give A.O'Brien a chance in the first team as he's 21 and needs the games at this stage.

Apparently he was over to see Dirk Kuyt and only found out when
he arrived that that Kuyt had already agreed terms with Liverpool

[keenanboy]

Apparently he was over to see Dirk Kuyt and only found out when
he arrived that that Kuyt had already agreed terms with Liverpool

I'd say he's well annoyed with the flow of information from his chief scout :)

[pete]

Such are the options i can barely pick a team for Germany & certainly nothing to add to the bench.

:eek:

Carr, Kavanagh & Morrison should be dropped from the squad & replaced with anyone else.

I was surprised by Miller last night & could do a good job with Reid in central midfield?

[Dr. Ogba]

btw - I seen Glenn Roeder last night. Hopefully he'll give A.O'Brien a chance in the first team as he's 21 and needs the games at this stage.


That is to say "I saw..." your grammar is terrible :p

[Dr. Ogba]

I'd say he's well annoyed with the flow of information from his chief scout :)

Not too sure if you were being sarcastic there but I'd say he was delighted that he didn't waste his money on that donkey....one of the few Dutch players that wouldn't have looked out of place in a green shirt...

[Qwerty]

I actually watched the game again on tape to get a more balanced view. We didn't drop any points and if we get a point in germany this will be forgotten very quickly.

In terms of individuals McGeady has to be in the side, he was the only Irish player last night who was completely comfortable on the ball. When sourrounded by 2-3 dutch players he can actualy play his way out of trouble. I wasn't sure about his pace - now I know he has pace. This guy can be a big player for us.

Douglas - not the finished article but put in more tackles than Kavanagh and Reid combined, shows lots of aggression. Kavanagh should be dropped from the squad, 1.5 tackles in the first half :eek:

If Reid can do for Ireland what he does for Blackburn then I would go with S.Reid and Douglas for the Germany game.

Doyle certainly is a more complete player than Morrison, I think he is the partner that Keane has been waiing for. But I still like Morrison, he isn't match fit so last night was not a fair reflection of what he can do for us.

Alan O'Brien does have frightening pace - at least Stan got that right.

[colster]

I actually watched the game again on tape to get a more balanced view. We didn't drop any points and if we get a point in germany this will be forgotten very quickly.

In terms of individuals McGeady has to be in the side, he was the only Irish player last night who was completely comfortable on the ball. When sourrounded by 2-3 dutch players he can actualy play his way out of trouble. I wasn't sure about his pace - now I know he has pace. This guy can be a big player for us.

Douglas - not the finished article but put in more tackles than Kavanagh and Reid combined, shows lots of aggression. Kavanagh should be dropped from the squad, 1.5 tackles in the first half :eek:

If Reid can do for Ireland what he does for Blackburn then I would go with S.Reid and Douglas for the Germany game.

Doyle certainly is a more complete player than Morrison, I think he is the partner that Keane has been waiing for. But I still like Morrison, he isn't match fit so last night was not a fair reflection of what he can do for us.

Alan O'Brien does have frightening pace - at least Stan got that right.


I agree with you totally. Kavanagh is just not up to it at this level. I think it's a waste having him in the squad when we have a number of younger players who we should be looking at to fast track.

[eirebhoy]

That is to say "I saw..." your grammar is terrible :p
I was never good at English in school. :o

[bwagner]

you know what the sad fact is here is stauntons line up he will go for:

given
carr dunne obrien oshea
finnan kilbane s reid duff
morrison keane

[mafitz]

Worst performance I have seen from Ireland, watching them 30 years, that includes Egypt in 1990, never saw the Liechtenstein game.

We are rudderless at the moment, we need a better manger than Stan to get a better performance out of what has to be said is a very poor Ireland team, reading the mails I think people are saying we will do better in Stuttgart when the missing players come back, well there is no guarantee they will be back.

I felt that we backed off the Dutch last night and showed they too much respect; also I believe we have two good strikers in Keane and Doyle which is a change for Ireland.

My team for Stuttgart is

Given
Finnan Dunne McCarthy Harte/O'Shea
McGeady S Reid Kilbane (because I can't see anyone else) Duff
Keane Doyle

Kav is finished

Stan has to bring Mccarthy McShane Whelan into the squad

Where’s Alan Quinn is he injured?

See u all in Stuttgart, maybe we can drag them through

[soccerc]

Where’s Alan Quinn is he injured?




No, coming back from injury though played in all of Sheffield United's pre-season games notching a few goals along the way.

[Junior]

What a crock of bull. The Scotish league is a two horse race and O'Neill managed the stronger horse. Talk about a blinkered view on the behalf of a Celtic fan. :rolleyes:

That's right O'Neill has only ever managed one club....................

[CraftyToePoke]

What a crock of bull. The Scotish league is a two horse race and O'Neill managed the stronger horse. Talk about a blinkered view on the behalf of a Celtic fan. :rolleyes:

Ahem, there was the small matter of a uefa cup final as well, unheard of for a long while in the Scottish game, knocking out much vaunted eng-prem opposition, iirc.

[Dodge]

What we really need is Kevin Nolan!

[keenanboy]

What a crock of bull. The Scotish league is a two horse race and O'Neill managed the stronger horse. Talk about a blinkered view on the behalf of a Celtic fan. :rolleyes:

I am delighted for all the so-called experts who got what they wanted with Kerr's P45. The animals have taken over the zoo and we have a clown in charge instead of a pro.

I'm sorry to disappointment you but I don't really care much for Celtic or Scottish football. Just making the point that a good man-manager can do a good job with limited quality players. And further to blast your retort out of the water...apart from numerous Scottish League and Cup wins he also managed to get them through to a UEFA Cup final via Barcelona.

[Jerry The Saint]

Ah sure we'll be grand, Mick Byrne will sort everything out with a scoop and a smile and a song in his heart!

The important thing is that Staunton doesn't start making the same crazy mistakes that Kerr did like recklessly focusing on preparation and professionalism. As long as the players are happy, the mood is good and Stan doesn't 'lose the dressing room', I have a feeling that things are going to be allllright! :)

[DotTV]

The players need to stand up and be counted.
They played ****e under Kerr and now the same under Staunton.

What they might lack in skill and experience should at least be made up for in spirit and determination.
There was little of any last night.

[pete]

Ah sure we'll be grand, Mick Byrne will sort everything out with a scoop and a smile and a song in his heart!

The important thing is that Staunton doesn't start making the same crazy mistakes that Kerr did like recklessly focusing on preparation and professionalism. As long as the players are happy, the mood is good and Stan doesn't 'lose the dressing room', I have a feeling that things are going to be allllright! :)

The scary thing is that is actually true.

Kerr for all his faults would never have allowed a team be torn apart like that.

[Diarmo]

Yeah, last night was a disgrace, but it was a friendly so at least we know where all our weaknesses are...

GK- Given (in the name of god what would we do if he got a long term injury?) :eek:

DL- Kilbane had a shocker last night, but Iano has them regularly. so it's hard to know. And O'Shea wouldn't be much better there.
CB- Dunne
CB- O'Brien
DR-Finnan

ML-Duff
MC-S. Reid (sitting back in a holding role)
MC- Heres where the crux of the matter is, really. Our options are Kavanagh, Douglas, Miller, O'Shea, Andy Reid etc. Personally I'd always go for Kav, but he wasn't great last night and I'd be worried at this. So I think Andy Reid is the best option, he can tackle and can use the ball intelligently. But he could be in better shape but first team football with Charlton should help this.
MR- McGeady or Elliot, but personally MCGeady is the best option. His trickery is great.

FC- Keane
FC- Doyle


All in all
we're doomed

[thejollyrodger]

Time for Stan to go ?

[SUB of the day]

4 nil defeat in Dublin and Stan can see positives?

[Dallasirish]

Should be great odds for Ireland 1 Germany 0 after last nights performance.

Get the money on it !!!

Dont be sayin i didnt tell yis

[mypost]

I think I'm reading foot.ie's "English tabloid" thread. We go into a game against one of the top countries in the world with 8 players missing, and people get hysterical about losing heavily to them?? :confused:

Sweden were walloped in Dublin by Staunton's Ireland, yet it didn't affect them that badly in the World Cup, as they made it out of their group. It was a friendly, and should be dismissed as a one-off bad performance. The game against Germany next month is when we will know where Staunton's class stand in the world game. The players will be back, the tackles will be won, the concentration will come, the chances to score will be created. It will be a completely different match and performance. No need to panic.

[tricky_colour]

What we really need is Kevin Nolan!

I don't think thats allowed in this forum

Please read my signiture :D

[tricky_colour]

I was never good at English in school. :o

How did you do at logical reasoning? Maths for examnple?
And while we are at it, reading and comprehending?

[Irish_Praha]

I know some of you will say this is a defeatist attitude and typical of the ole ole moral victory brigade but after what was dished out last night the truth of the matter is that to turn it around and get a point from the game against Germany would be a fantastic result. There will be some that say we should go there, try to be creative and play our own game. However, as far as i can see we just don't have our own game at the moment.
IMO we should try to keep it as solid as possible and send out a 4-4-2 formation, which all our players are used to. There is so much wrong at the moment that we just need to get back to basics, with only 2 weeks and no more friendlies to experiment it's just a waste of time to experiment.
Our main aim should be to disrupt the German play, prevent them from creating anything - in other words defend, defend, defend. Some might argue that a 4-5-1 would be better for that but the thing is, we are strongest up front so I would presist with 2 strikers who might create something between them and will hold the ball up front to releave the pressure off MF and defence. If we go for 4-5-1 I fear we would be just inviting them onto us too much and we would eventually crack under the pressure. We need 2 strong players in CMF and I would pick Reid and Kilbane. I'm no big fan of Kilbane but if he could do exactly what de did against France away it would be all that I expect of him - just break down the German attacks and not be expected to create much himself. If he stops Ballack surging forward and it results in the Germans getting a throw-in on the half-way line every 5 mins that would do.
Maybe they will get frustrated and start to make a few mistakes of their own. However, it's unknown if he has it in him to repeat that France away performance and if he's not doing the business he should be hauled off after half an hour. Just maybe the wingers can create something for Keane and Doyle on the break but they should do their defending too.
Also, when we are playing against the weaker teams in the group, against whom we are expected to win by a few goals, I wouldn't have Kilbane anywhere near the midfield because he doesn't create very much. I would just like to see him big a big akward nuisance against Germany.

[tricky_colour]

Unless there are changes I can guarantee you that we will not qualify.
So either change or fail.

[John83]

Apparently he was over to see Dirk Kuyt and only found out when he arrived that that Kuyt had already agreed terms with Liverpool

Not too sure if you were being sarcastic there but I'd say he was delighted that he didn't waste his money on that donkey....one of the few Dutch players that wouldn't have looked out of place in a green shirt...
Agreed Ogba. I've never seen the guy play well. To quote a Dutch guy I know, "The man barely deserved to play at Feyenoord for starters. Just that he works hard and the Rotterdam people traditionally vigorously appreciate that... His skills are equal to mine, and that ain't good :D"


That is to say "I saw..." your grammar is terrible :p
Says the man who ends Dr with a period even though 'r' is the last letter in the abbreviated word. :p

Anyway, as for the game, I'll never take Duffer for granted again.

[bennocelt]

I posted ages ago in a thread about the future that we are in big trouble. I was shouted down by the delusional who think Kavanagh is a good midfielder - well there's your evidence tonight. The man is a joke and hasn't played one good game for Ireland. He's absolutely useless and is not up to this level. All he does is make rash challenges and pass the ball sideways, or hoof it up field :rolleyes:

John O'Shea shouldn't be left near the defense. Play him in midfield or leave him out. Kevin Kilbane should not be starting. Playing Steve Finnan at left back to accomodate that ***** Steven Carr is a joke and I fear a bad sign of things to come from Staunton. All I can think of as an explanation is that he is good buddies with Carr - other than that I don't understand why this water carrier, pathetic excuse for a defender is back in the setup. Why come back if you're not going to try??? :mad: Clinton Morrisson up front was poor and I feel it might be time to relegate him to the role of impact sub, because he's no longer doing the business from the start.

:

as above
kilbane, kavanagh, o shea, morrison......head to the knackers yard..at once:mad:

[bennocelt]

I disagree. The team did try they just weren't good enough.

They were outclassed by a better team and all the huffing and puffing in the world would not have changed that.

doh:rolleyes:
no tackles going in, did you see the goals, look at them again and tell me who was trying
80 percent possession in the first half to holland, even san marino dont gie the ball away that much

[bennocelt]

We are far weaker defensively than both in midfield and up front which could be seen last night and is very worrying.

i think 4-5-1 is better, it shores up the midfield, and protects the defence, im hoping for a draw in germany, remember it nearly worked for poland

positives from tonight
A mcgready looked good, trying to beat his man on the wing, even if the fella in the Star today said he was aweful!:rolleyes: he isnt a holding midfielder!
Doyle again, but would love to see him in 90 minutes with robbie keane
and miller surprised me when he came on,
o brien is fast but man if he cant pass a square ball!!! jeez

[Paddy Garcia]

Kavanagh had his chance last night to get into the team and he hasn't taken it. He's almost 33 now and his international career looks to be all but over. Pity he couldn't produce his club form for Ireland.
.

......but he did. Against top class opposition in the Prem he is shown up, previously mentioned the League Cup Final where Man U totally overan the Wigan midfield.

Having said that he was no worse last night than he was against Chilie. We will not win against a decent team with Kav in our midfield, unless he can lean on the likes of Roy Keane for support.

Last night our defence was afforded NO cover or support, so not really fair to jugde O"Shea or O"Brien quite so harshly. Years gone by the ROI midfield always protected their defenders very well - not extended the invitation to attack which the CM sent in the first half last night.

[Forever Dreamin]

Sorry "Forever Dreamin"...I was being sarcastic...I haven't quite got the hang of putting the smiley faces, etc at the end of my post. I think it's sinful not staying until the end. It's also disappointing to hear folk boo their own National team...something I never have, and never will do.
I don't get the jibe about the tickets. Are they that easy to come by that people can pick and choose which games to go to? I missed the boat re. block booking back around 1999/2000, and find it a real struggle to get any competitive international tickets.

No probs :mad: :rolleyes: :D
If we dont get a good result against Germany and beat Cyprus I would bet there will be no shortage of tickets for the czech game. Just over the years the demand drops quickly, just see how many left the ground early last night. They wont be in a hurry back if we arent winning or in with a shout.

What really ****ed me off last night was parents bringing kids home with 20 mins or more left. Even though we were ****e the kids should have been aloud stay ane watch a good Dutch performance.

[elroy]

I think we should hold fire for a while yet, last night was brutal yes, but the reaction is a bit OTT to say the least. if we are a bad team after one bad friendly, then we must be nearly World champions with our past record in friendlies.

There is no way an Irish team will go out there an collapse in Germany like they did last night. We need a best players back though that is for sure.

Liam Miller did have a few nice touches last night, but having said that gave it away carelessly a few times too. I thought going forward we were actually quite good, some very good balls into the middle but no one ever looked like getting on them

[geysir]

......but he did. Against top class opposition in the Prem he is shown up, previously mentioned the League Cup Final where Man U totally overan the Wigan midfield.

Having said that he was no worse last night than he was against Chilie. We will not win against a decent team with Kav in our midfield, unless he can lean on the likes of Roy Keane for support.
Kav did fine against Chile and has done well often enough for Wigan against class enough opposition. He has not demonstrated any consistancy in a green shirt, you just dont know what performance you are going to get.

I would still have him on the bench and consider to bring him on even after the other team have gone one or 2 up and we are chasing the game in 2nd half. Might be a common enough scenario.

[DeNiro]

Sitting in the stand last night was a sober experience. After all the years of hope and excitement I've never felt in such a subdued atmosphere. The writing is on the wall. We could pull out something in Germany. We're always capable of a surprise but other than that I don't hold out too much hope. We're at an awkward stage. Too many guys without the necessary experience. On a positive Kevin Doyle was good and has to start against the Germans. Morrison would nearly be as well off calling it a day. After all the fuss over him playing for Ireland in the first place! He got it too easy. International class my ass! Alan O'Brien could, with the right guidance, become an option. I do wonder though why Staunton chose Douglas and Daryl Murphy above the likes of Stephen McPhail and Kevin Nugent. Douglas offered no more than McPhail would have. Even getting Lee Carsley back would seem a boost. Carr might as well have not come over. Elliott is an absolute waste of time. Thank God Andy Reid didn't go to Sunderland, there seems to be a very negative vibe from Elliott. We don't need any more players with that!

[Scram]

We do need Carlsley back and Andy Reid fit...Andy Reid is the future. We can come up with a solid 11...only problem is we don't have the time.

[shakermaker1982]

Let's just hope Duff, Given, Robbie and Given are injury free for September the 2nd. Once that game is over - we need to find a decent CB to play with Dunne and a new central MF. The lad from Leicester needs a closer inspection.

[theleprechaun]

why i am ashamed of my national team, the team that i love so well? like last night i watched the match and wondered why do i love this team so much. i wondered. but then i think back on past glories and i remember my reasons. now that is what i want, the good old days. team spirit and desire is what we need. we need to up our game in stuttgart. we need to. is there anyone at all who think that we have a chance to qualify?

[eirebhoy]

......but he did. Against top class opposition in the Prem he is shown up, previously mentioned the League Cup Final where Man U totally overan the Wigan midfield.
In the same competition he was excellent in the 1-0 win against Arsenal. I don't really care about Kavanagh now tbh (there is incredible bias against him though, he was no worse than Reid last night). We have to look at someone else to partner Reid. As long as it isn't O'Shea or Kilbane I'll be happy.

[Scram]

Let's just hope Duff, Given, Robbie and Given are injury free for September the 2nd. Once that game is over - we need to find a decent CB to play with Dunne and a new central MF. The lad from Leicester needs a closer inspection.

Maybe put the second Given as CB ;)

[Qwerty]

No points lost last night.

No damage done yet.

Everyone knows they need to raise their game, including Stan.

[geysir]

I heard news on the BBC that Robbie will be back declared fit to start Spurs first game, a week earlier than expected. Take it easy son.