Driving

[Gareth]

Do you speed? I wanna see inside the mind of someone who gets into their car and goes hell for leather in their car, yet puts road deaths down to "bad driving" not speed. If everyone did 30 miles an hour, do you think we would have as much carnage? I have had a couple of very frustrating conversations where guys who drive at 120 miles an hour on roads and go up the back of other cars, bumper to bumper, who still claim if that car pushed the breaks they'd be able to avoid hitting them. The reality is your reaction times are lowered, and if you do lapse, as is only human, the faster the speed the more dramatic a second lapse can be!!

Now who gets into a car after a couple pints? I would really like to know what goes through your brains?

I think as a requirement to learning to drive, you have to go visit the National Rehabilation Hospital and see what speeding and drink driving does. For that extra 5 minutes at your destination, you speed, I hope its a bloody good five minutes. RANT OVER.

[dahamsta]

You're saying that the enormous quantity of bad drivers out there, created directly as a result of Ireland's wholly ineffective driver testing system, don't cause accidents?

adam

[Gareth]

No, I am saying that speed reduced your chances of reacting sufficiently, and drinking reduces your reaction time. Combine the two and you have a very lethal combo!!

I agree that our testing system is a joke, but its not the only factor. One thing we can do without waiting for Government changes, is to slow down and don't drive under any drink.

Would you not agree that if people didn't speed, or drink drive, than a large number of early morning, no other vehicle involved accidents would be reduced?

[Ringo]

No, I am saying that speed reduced your chances of reacting sufficiently, and drinking reduces your reaction time. Combine the two and you have a very lethal combo!!

I agree that our testing system is a joke, but its not the only factor. One thing we can do without waiting for Government changes, is to slow down and don't drive under any drink.

Would you not agree that if people didn't speed, or drink drive, than a large number of early morning, no other vehicle involved accidents would be reduced?

The fact you can get a provisional licence & get behind the wheel of a car and drive is a joke. You can fail your test & get straight back into your car & drive home. Speed is the biggest problem. Its down to individual drivers to slow down, you can't have a check point of every road in the country.

[Gareth]

I agree Ringo. Our testing system is insane. But as you said, you need to get everyone to act responsibly, but think about it, the same lads who apparently lit the oxegen tents alight are probably let drive. Its like giving a kid (a slow one at that) a real gun for a toy, and telling them not to pull the trigger. We are too light on offenders, and if you read 12 people were killed on the roads, and then you get into your car and drive like a loon, you are either very stupid or very selfish!!

I was driving yesterday on the road, and a car was behind me. There was a load of cars coming on my right, so what did he do. Passed me out on the left in the hard shoulder. Ironic thing was, the next lights a mile or two ahead, he was one ahead of me. He should have his license removed instantly. I got his reg if your wondering.

[Raheny Red]

Indeed, it's a complete joke alright. The other day my mate got his, passed the theory with 39/40, good man, passed the eye test, nice one, however, he has never he started the ignition in a car ffs! :rolleyes: :eek:

[sligoman]

Indeed, it's a complete joke alright. The other day my mate got his, passed the theory with 39/40, good man, passed the eye test, nice one, however, he has never he started the ignition in a car ffs!That's me:). To think that I can actually go out and drive right now if I want(after I get insurance of course) is a joke. I got 38 out of 40 in my theory test, perfect vision in my eye test and I'm away but yet I know nothing about driving, only recently I found out which pedals were which:o.

I got his reg if your wondering.and did you report him?

[Terry]

for me what would drastically reduce the amount of deaths on our roads wouldbe if the education system brought in driving classes for students in secondary schools like they have in america. An educated driver is a better option than one who learns from other peoples bad habbits

[Dr.Nightdub]

I'm saying this as somone who isn't a boy racer but still managed to clock up 6 points in the first year and a half after they came in so I've made a conscious effort over the last while to watch myself. Points ARE a deterrent once you've got a few, plus there's a incentive not to get any more in terms of insurance - next November, 2 of mine get knocked off so it'll save me €100, 2 more go in March so that's another €100.

All that being said, some of the limits set for particular stretches of road are just pure daft, especially the 50 km/h ones.

As for drink driving, I eventually stopped after a few too many times getting home and saying to myself "Sh1t, I shouldn't have done that." I think it was simply a matter of getting more responsible with age. Now I either leave the car at home altogether or just park it in Inchicore (on match nights) / multistorey in town (general nights out) and go back for it the next day.

One thing highlighted by the whole catalogue of single-vehicle crashes in the small hours is the impact that lack of public transport has. You almost never see these accidents happening in Dublin. I don't know why each county council doesn't just give out a leaflet each year with the car tax disc, showing what accidents have happened in that county in the last year, where and when they happened (and what time) who was killed and give the Garda reports including the estimated speed and whether (from the autopsy) the driver had been drinking. It'd be distressing for relatives, etc but it'd be worth it if it made people change their behaviour.

[pineapple stu]

The fact you can get a provisional licence & get behind the wheel of a car and drive is a joke. You can fail your test & get straight back into your car & drive home.
How are you supposed to practice enough to be good enough to get a full licence if you can't drive while on a provisional?

[sligoman]

How are you supposed to practice enough to be good enough to get a full licence if you can't drive while on a provisional?You should be required by law to have a certain number of lessons with a registered instructor at least, in my opinion. What Ringo is saying is right, you can drive straight away without ever sitting behind the steering wheel in yer life. All you have to do is answer a few "rules of the road" questions in the Theory Test and away you go.

As for drink driving, I honestly believe it's the "older generation" that does this because of old habits etc. Yes young people are known for speeding but very few would actually drink and drive in my view.

[dahamsta]

You should be required by law to have a certain number of lessons with a registered instructor at least, in my opinion.I concur.

[dahamsta]

I've added a poll to this thread. I dislike the suggestion that speeding is somehow dangerous by definition, hence the provision.

I strongly support the assertion that bad driving is the root cause of most accidents in this country btw. Speeding may be a cause in some cases, as a result of bad driving.

adam

[sligoman]

dahamsta in relation to the poll question(which I assume you added), how do you define "speeding with care"? Surely it's dangerous either way:confused:.

EDIT: Just saw yer reply but still confused as to how you can speed with care?:o.

[John83]

dahamsta in relation to the poll question(which I assume you added), how do you define "speeding with care"? Surely it's dangerous either way:confused:.

EDIT: Just saw yer reply but still confused as to how you can speed with care?:o.
Have to agree. I don't think the poll is very clear.

[dahamsta]

Gareth is of the opinion that speeding is dangerous by definition. I'm of the opinion that speeding is only dangerous when not done with due care and attention. The speeding driver that pays attention to the road around him or her is far safer than some of the ninnies I see around the place, checking themselves out in the mirror, looking directly at their passengers while they gossip, hanging their children and animals out of windows and sunroofs, etc.

Gareth is entitled to his opinion, but if he's going to start a thread with an assertion like that...

adam

[Macy]

You should be required by law to have a certain number of lessons with a registered instructor at least, in my opinion.
tbh, I'd be happy if they just enforced the law on being accompanied with a licenced driver. As it stands, anyone (even with a provisional licence) can become a driving instructor. The whole lesson thing is another Government cop out of their enforcement failure - I mean get people to comply with the current law before making it stricter (same as the zero tolerance of drink driving).

[Macy]

I would speed on some sections of road, but I think it's more to do with some inappropriate speed limits than my desire to speed (N11 in Kilmac would be prime example, and a Garda enforcement hotspot at that).

The irony as Gay Bryne was making his typically grating impassioned plea on Friday for everyone to slow down over the weekend, I was stuck behind a council truck gritting because of the state of the road. A bit of hot weather and the tar melts to the stage that it's like oil on the road. The solution is to put down loose material with no signage. Grit maybe a solution when it is actually melted but adds to the danger at night when it's cooler. Yet we're lead to believe speed is the problem not infrastructure. Incidentally, all that melted tar is either dead smooth (perfect for black ice come the frosts) or cut up so much that it's practically potholed already.

After that news item, we were treated to the campaign about just one drink. I forget how many multiples of the drink drive limit the vast majority of those caught drink driving are, but it is at least twice the limit. So Gaybo's quango's solution to the carnage is to concerntrate on people that are already compliant with the law?! Ridiculous. You have to get people down to just the one drink before getting people lower.

Finally we have enforcement system that, when they do bother, is only concerned with convictions not stopping accidents. We have Cullen on the last word spouting rubbish about penalty points issued when the only measure of enforcement is reducing the number of deaths. The whole focus is on prosecution (at the wrong times) rather than prevention. Hence the fish in a barrel speed traps in unmarked cars/ gards behind hedges, when they should be flagging the trap miles in advance and use only marked cars to actually slow people down.

Incidentally, taking Monday to Monday of the carnage on our roads, I've seen gards on traffic duty three times this week. All three have been doing people for driving in the bus lane. FFS. :mad:

[trevy]

Its easy to blame the government,Gay Byrne,gardai or whoever for the high death tolls on the road.But they are not the ones speeding on bad country roads,possibly under the influence of drink,drugs or too tired to drive or overtaking in crazy places.Also the fact there is so much money out there means nearly everyone over 19 has access to a car when even 10 years this wasn't usual.Its drivers and 90% of fatal accidents are due to driver 'error'.Now politicians are responsible for the driving testing fiasco,the fact that people can keep failing driving tests and can still drive and don't have to take lessons before they get behind the wheel.But at the end of the day the driver has to take responsibility for his or her own actions.

[wws]

ludicrous over taking and tail gating are the two id say that cause most collisions (in terms of non drunk driving)

I put it down to the general impatience and unpleasantness of ppl these days

[sligoman]

Gareth is of the opinion that speeding is dangerous by definition. I'm of the opinion that speeding is only dangerous when not done with due care and attention. The speeding driver that pays attention to the road around him or her is far safer than some of the ninnies I see around the place, checking themselves out in the mirror, looking directly at their passengers while they gossip, hanging their children and animals out of windows and sunroofs, etc.That's fair enough but I still think speeding is worse. In most instances of bad driving, you would still have enough time to react if danger was about to occur, whereas with speeding, you clearly have less time to react/slow down. Bad driving may cause more accidents, but in my opinion speeding makes them fatal.

[pineapple stu]

I think dahamsta's point here is that you have to combine bad driving and speeding to get 90% of fatal crashes.

You've said bad driving causes more crashes, but speeding makes them fatal. So surely reducing the number of crashes we have is a better way to improve things than reducing the likelihood that a crash is fatal? A non-crash is guaranteed not to be fatal.

Incidentally, there's a difference between speeding and going fast. You try walking away from a crash on the motorway at 60mph. Well within the speed limit, but you're still dead.

And for the record, I keep to within 5 mph or so of speed limits 95% of the time. I sometimes notice myself going a bit faster, and will make a conscious effort to slow down. I've done PHTLS medical courses and have seen enough pictures of what you look like after a 60mph car crash!

[dahamsta]

Bad drivers can't react, because they don't know how to drive. That's precisely the problem.

[John83]

Article from Diarmuid Doyle (http://tribune.televisual.co.uk/article.tvt?_ticket=PB9O9LLDNTKAGQRFL1V9ANWPOIA9CH VTWRRLIVOIATWLATKACK3243QFIR0AAMTECYLGBHSI7W2EIOPN PQSEANYDDGSGW4YMHONDLHBR9LLDPIWJWWQFIRY4X9SEAOY9CH YPTRRMINNAGTSEASN9CHYLTRRLNNNAGZSEARQ9CHZPTRRITB0P S8M&_scope=Tribune/News/Comment&id=47694&SUBCAT=Tribune/News) in the Tribune. [Requires registration - free trial]

A few quotes:

...No quibbles then when Michael McDowell says that "it's Irish motorists who must get the message".
When he suggests that it's "dangerous speedy, drunken and careless driving that is causing deaths, not the gardai", he has a point there too...

The problem with McDowell's statement last week was that it was designed as much to suggest that the state has no role to play in preventing road deaths as it was in allocating responsibility to dangerous and drunken drivers.

...[McDowell] feels safe being so blase on the subject of road deaths.
That may be because he suspects that deep down, the electorate is as bored with the issue of road safety as drunken drivers clearly are and that it will therefore not be an election issue that he will have to worry about.
I suspect he might be right about that too. Maybe that's the real story of a tragic week.

[Macy]

Sure the gardai are doing all they can to reduce the road deaths on dangerous stretches at dangerous times of the night, as evidenced by two lots of two, at 4pm, doing people on the N11 in Loughlinstown yesterday. For those that don't know, this is a new stretch of dual carriageway, with a seperate cyclelane and pavements set well back. I'm sure they bumped up the number of people caught to be quoted next monday after the next round of crashes...

Trevy, it is easy to blame those listed as they are doing nothing to tackle the problem. Where is the shift in focus to policing the roads at the critical times? Where are the checkpoints (random breath testing or not) on the roads out of towns and villages at 2 or 3am? People drink/drug drive and speed because they know they'll be "unlucky" to get caught. We have a situation as stands now that people speed up when they come off dual carriageways and motorways as they know there's less chance of getting caught speeding - seen it many times when heading down the country.

Where is the solution after 9 years in power to driving test waiting times when the economy is at it's richest? (Too concerned with Privatisation is the answer btw). Where is the implementation of the provisional driving laws, both on being accompanied and motorway driving?

Whats the first campaign since Gay Byrne has been involved? A anti drink driving campaign that focuses on people that are already complying with the law. The rest of his tenure has been about making excuses for Government and saying there's nothing more they can do. If you've no ideas, then resign you tool.

Simply to try and blame motorists alone is a cop out of the highest order - Would McDowell get the same support if he said there was nothing more they could do about gun crime in North Dublin, it was up to the jackeens to simply stop shooting each other? Or if he said they could do no more about rapists, just that they should stop raping people? Fookin bóllox is all it is.

[dahamsta]

The last time I was done for speeding was at 1am on the way back from Shannon, in a 50kph zone that had been created as a kneejerk because of a crash. The crash happened during the day, not at night when you can see other cars because of those "light" things they have. The Gardaí hid their car under a petrol station canopy. There was zero traffic on the road.

Sure I was a danger to all around me. :rolleyes:

adam

[Lionel Ritchie]

Inappropriate speed is a major factor in many accidents and is in itself bad driving.

But as one persons assessment of what's appropriate can differ wildly from anothers - we have the speed limit -frustrating as they sometimes are.

I empathise with many of Macys frustrations about the lack of implimentation of rules in relation to breath testing, licencing etc -but not in relation to poor infrastructure. Your driving should match the conditions you find yourself in.

As well as toughening up or even just enforcing existing rules I think there should be age related tiers as well.

In this day and age I'm not convinced there's any reason why anyone under 18 should be allowed drive on open roads AT ALL.

Once a person reaches 18 they should in my view only be allowed drive 1L or 1.1L cars til they're 22 and only 1.2L til they're 26.

[Block G Raptor]

I Agree with A lot of whats been said here re: Speeding etc. but can someone please explain what a qualified driver in the passanger seat with a provisional licence holder at the wheel is supposed to do to prevent a crash in an emergency. Also i have to say I use the M50 everyday between Blanchadstown and the M1 roundabout and I feel safer driving on it than I do on most "ordinary roads" so I think the no "L" drivers rule is a bit ridiculous TBH

[pineapple stu]

Can someone please explain what a qualified driver in the passanger seat with a provisional licence holder at the wheel is supposed to do to prevent a crash in an emergency.
Provisional drivers aren't used to noticing all they're supposed to notice. Like a light that's just gone red up ahead or a car which has stopped ahead of you to turn. That can easily cause a nasty crash, which the full licence driver is more likely to spot and warn the provisional driver about. They can also, I suppose, teach them their driving - improve hill starts, stalling the car, etc - things which could also lead to crashes. Not perfect, but better than letting provisional drivers out on their own.

[Block G Raptor]

Provisional drivers aren't used to noticing all they're supposed to notice. Like a light that's just gone red up ahead or a car which has stopped ahead of you to turn. That can easily cause a nasty crash, which the full licence driver is more likely to spot and warn the provisional driver about. They can also, I suppose, teach them their driving - improve hill starts, stalling the car, etc - things which could also lead to crashes. Not perfect, but better than letting provisional drivers out on their own.
I understand that but surely 10/15 lessons with a professional Instructer would sort these issues out. IMO the Law should be at least 10 lessons with a "Pro" driving instructor before being allowed anywhere near a public road. I decided to follow this course of action when I recently got my first car/provisional license

[pineapple stu]

10 lessons certainly wouldn't sort it conclusively. That's not to say that 10 compulsory lessons (or 10 compulsory hours) isn't a bad idea, but a qualified driver in the passenger seat still does some good.

[Ringo]

I Agree with A lot of whats been said here re: Speeding etc. but can someone please explain what a qualified driver in the passanger seat with a provisional licence holder at the wheel is supposed to do to prevent a crash in an emergency. Also i have to say I use the M50 everyday between Blanchadstown and the M1 roundabout and I feel safer driving on it than I do on most "ordinary roads" so I think the no "L" drivers rule is a bit ridiculous TBH

A qualified driver should be telling the learner to keep with in the limits & correcting mistakes, keep the distance etc. The ban on motorways has more to do with the 120km speed limit.

[Ringo]

http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/traffic/county.asp?aid=10

Updated: 18/07/2006 13:52:39

MAIN TRAFFIC: *Motorists are slowing down northbound from the Red Cow roundabout onto the M50 to observe youths swimming in a nearby canal. Gardai are en route.


how accidents happen on the M50 - Rubber-neckers:rolleyes:

[hoops1]

No wonder there is so many accidents and deaths on the roads with the nonsense thats being spouted here. Speeding with care is a ridiculous statment to make in the first place.Care for who? obviously not the poor ******* that steps out in front of you. The problem is alot to do with drivers with an over inflated sense of there own driving ability taking to many risks
not driving within the limits. Ill say this if you ever cause an accident because of this stupid attitude i wouldnt admit to it because family memebers of any injured or killed would take your life.

[Block G Raptor]

but a qualified driver in the passenger seat still does some good.
I've had me dad in the car a few times and he just distracts me and drives me mad. telling me to break when i'm breaking. watch out for this watch out for that when I've seen it before he did. he literally doesn't shut up and I end up screaming at him. I feel much much more focused and safer on my own( Note I am 28y/o and a bit more mature than most on first provisional licences and despise "Boy Racers")

[dahamsta]

obviously not the poor ******* that steps out in front of you.On an empty motorway? By your logic, we shouldn't be driving at all. Or leaving our houses. Or getting out of bed.

It's precisely this kind of all-or-nothing attitude that causes the idiocy that's going on the Middle East at the moment.

adam

[hoops1]

Laws are Laws Obey them
Its not up to you to decide which ones dont suit you at any particular time
Your linking of statements about attitudes towards obeying the law and the middle east is both bizzare and stupid:eek:

[dahamsta]

You can express an opinion all you like on Foot.ie, but if you call me or any another poster "stupid" again, you'll be out on your ear, understood?

As to your "laws are laws" comment, are you seriously suggesting that you've never broken a law? (I'll cut you off: if you say yes, I don't believe you.)

adam

[hoops1]

If you ask a question let me answer it!
or dont ask it
Whats this a let Dahamsta hear what he wants forum

[pete]

No time to read the posts above but just one comment - everyone speeds, the only people who do not speed do not drive, anyone who says they drive but never speed is a lier as its impossible never to break the speed limit.

:rolleyes:

[Metrostars]

It always easy to blame someone else but we ALL have a responsibility in driving safely. Perhaps I'm getting old (37 now) but I sure as hell don't drive as recklessly as I used to do. Maybe thats because I have kids now. I'm sorry to disagree with the likes of dahamsta, but Speeding=Bad Driving, imo. Speed limits are set for a reason, not just for other drivers/bystanders but also for you, the driver. Obtaining a driving license also includes a responsibility to drive safely.

That being said, I grew up driving on the back roads of County Galway but have now been driving in the US for 13 years. At this stage, whenever I go back home, I hate the thought of driving back there. And thats because there are so many people who think they are driving at Daytona or Silverstone. Yes, they do speed and yes I do think they are reckless.

[dahamsta]

I don't deny that speed limits are set for a reason, but many of them are set incorrectly, as in my example above; or for a different time (cars these days can travel faster, safer; roads can carry higher speeds, etc). More importantly, they're set to the lowest common denominator, and I am not that lowest common denominator.

I can drive better than most, because I understand cars better than most, because I understand physics better than most, because I spent time learning about how cars and people work when they're picking their nose in traffic. And before anyone tells me to watch out for that moron that walks into the street: I'm better equipped to deal with that too.

I'm intelligent to know that that's not going to happen on a motorway, or on a wide open street. Most Irish people aren't. If you remember, twenty years ago Irish people had to be told that there may be a possibility that children will run out from behind parked cars -- I kinda knew that already.

I believe we have to move away from lowest common denominator policies and lowest common denominator politics and politicians, they're slowly but surely turning homo sapiens into into a helpless, sticky mass of morons. People need to take more responsibility for themselves individually.

I'm sick of being nannied by proven incompetents. I'm sorry if people think it's wrong to say so, or cocky to say that I'm a better driver, but, well... I am.

adam

[Wiseguy]

Everybody has their bit to do when it comes to making our roads safer.I'd be the first to admit that i speed from time to time and i have no excuse for it.
IMO there are many reasons why we have so much carnage on our roads.
1) Driving at inappropiate speed and not driving to suit the road and the environment around you.This is a major factor in the amount of crashes we have on our roads and people need to wise up fast to this.
2) Poor enforcement of the laws.Most people believe they won't get caught so they break the rules of the road freely.Dedicated traffic corps in each and every county who are always on the road is needed to enforce the laws and once people start thinking that they will be caught they'll amend their ways.
3) Testing of drivers.You shouldn't be let near the road until you have completed x amount of driving lessons and passed a provisional driving test.Should you fail this then you should have to start all over again.Once you have passed you should be required by law to sit a full test after 9 months or so.Driving tests should also involve actually driving out on open roads and driving at night.Any idiot can drive around a town.This should help reduce the number of bad drivers on our roads and in turn reduce the number of crashes.
As i have said, everyone has a bit to play in reducing the number of crashes on our roads but as we all know in this country nothing gets done but nobody really cares.A complete overhaul of the whole sytem is needed and their is no chance of that happening.

[hoops1]

"I can drive better than most, because I understand cars better than most, because I understand physics better than most, because I spent time learning about how cars and people work when they're picking their nose in traffic. And before anyone tells me to watch out fo that moron that walks into the street: I'm better equipped to deal with that too". Quote.

Amazing quote! The mentality behind Irish road carnage summed up in one statement:eek:

[Gareth]

Adam, I find it hard to swallow your attitude to driving on the road. You state that you should be let speed because you are an incredible driver who is at one with your vehicle and its workings, and that you are well up on Physics. Now, on the other hand you say the road is full of ninnies? So back to my statement on speeding and yours on bad driving. If the road is full of bad driving ninnies, and that seems to be the majority makeup of the roadusers, and they don't have the same oneness with the road,car and physics as you do, then speeding on our roads is surely something we should try and control, whilst at the same time improving the average ninnies abilities in their vehicle. A law is there to serve to cover the entire population and if the majority of that population are bad drivers, then I say enforce the speed limits and don't remove or up them because Adam can take speed safely and react better than most.

Do you tailgate people in cars that are going slower than you'd like Adam?

I still say Adam that if your speeding and something appears in front of you, the laws of physics defines the distancerequired to bring the car to a stop, and the faster you go, the longer than distance is, and longer still in different conditions. Hence why in a built up area, you are forced to go 30mph or 50km ph. Not because the road is not good enough for you to go 90, but because there are too many possible random events, like kids tripping onto the road that would require you to slow in a shorter space.

Motorways, and the 120km ph speed limit. Its broken daily by most, I go 120 or slower, because its the law. Same reason I go 50 or less in a 50, etc etc.


they're set to the lowest common denominator, and I am not that lowest common denominator.
Do you not think that if driving a few miles slower will save lives, then its a good thing? And don't overexaggerate my point like you did with hoops1.


because I spent time learning about how cars and people work when they're picking their nose in traffic. And before anyone tells me to watch out fo that moron that walks into the street: I'm better equipped to deal with that too. How does guys sitting stationary in traffic picking their noses relate to anything to do with improving your own driving, apart from the fact you should be paying mroe attention to the traffic lights and not the guy beside you's disgusting habits?

[dahamsta]

hoops1, the government came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilities, and people like you fell for it hook, line and sinker; repeating it willy-nilly as gospel. Did you do a jot of research into these issues individually before parroting them at people in places like this?

Gareth, you're going to complain about me exaggerating, and say that I call myself "an incredible driver" at the same time? You obviously haven't read the rest of the post properly either, since I preemptively dealt with your points; because the responses were obvious. Perhaps try reading it again.

As to whether I tailgate, it's precisely this kind of stereotyping that demonstrates bias by design with regard to this topic, for whatever reason, and precisely why I delineated between good drivers that speed and bad drivers in general earlier.

I'll restate my comment to hoops1 (albeit not directly at hoops1, because some people are beyond help) without overstating it: people are different, cars are different, roads are different. All or nothing doesn't just not work, it's not an intelligent approach. It's a childish, immature approach.

adam

[hoops1]

Sorry I forgot you understand cars and Physics.
I will leave you to your delusions of fantastic Eddie Irvine like
driving abilities
Im out of here

[Lionel Ritchie]

hoops1, the government came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilities, and people like you fell for it hook, line and sinker; repeating it willy-nilly as gospel. Did you do a jot of research into these issues individually before parroting them at people in places like this?

Gareth, you're going to complain about me exaggerating, and say that I call myself "an incredible driver" at the same time? You obviously haven't read the rest of the post properly either, since I preemptively dealt with your points; because the responses were obvious. Perhaps try reading it again.

As to whether I tailgate, it's precisely this kind of stereotyping that demonstrates bias by design with regard to this topic, for whatever reason, and precisely why I delineated between good drivers that speed and bad drivers in general earlier.

I'll restate my comment to hoops1 without overstating it: people are different, cars are different, roads are different. All or nothing doesn't just not work, it's not an intelligent approach. It's a childish, immature approach.

adam

Adam, you come across as a confident, well read and intelligent guy ...but your arrogance on this one leaves me a bit stuck for words.

I might not agree with the tack taken by the government in dealing with lots of road safety issues -but the idea that "they came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilites" is at best economical with the truth and at worst conspiracy-theorist clap-trap.

And as for..

people are different, cars are different, roads are different. All or nothing doesn't just not work, it's not an intelligent approach. It's a childish, immature approach. ...what are you offering by way of alternative to what you see as "all or nothing"? I ask you to clarify because it reads like you're advocating one set of road safety laws and behaviours for the "Alpha" driver who (reckons) knows what he's doing -and quite another for the common plebbery.

[dahamsta]

Adam, you come across as a confident, well read and intelligent guy ...but your arrogance on this one leaves me a bit stuck for words.While I can understand that my assertions could be construed as arrogant, I'm not embarassed to make them. There is zero doubt in my mind that I am an above-average driver. I know how cars work better than most, I know their limits better than most - admittedly to some extent from driving like a twunt when I was younger, but I'm a more mature driver now - I'm more aware of prevailing conditions than most, and to some extent I'm more aware of how people work better than most; although that's something I would find difficult to prove. (I would have no problem proving my abilities in the other regards.)


I might not agree with the tack taken by the government in dealing with lots of road safety issues -but the idea that "they came up with a plan to deal with road deaths to distract from their own inabilites" is at best economical with the truth and at worst conspiracy-theorist clap-trap.Perhaps it was overstated, since I subscribe to Hanlon's Razor to a certain extent. However the fact remains that the Government's track record on road safety is patchy at best, woeful at worst; in particular driver training, which is at the root of the "bad driving" problem. I'll say it again and again: speeding doesn't kill, bad driving kills. Which is why the "speeding kills" campaign is a sham, a cop-out, a distraction. That might not be their intention - hence Hanlon's Razor - but it remains the case.


...what are you offering by way of alternative to what you see as "all or nothing"? I ask you to clarify because it reads like you're advocating one set of road safety laws and behaviours for the "Alpha" driver who (reckons) knows what he's doing -and quite another for the common plebbery.I honestly don't think there's a fixed solution on the speeding front at this time. I think the government needs to move away from using speeding as a revenue generation tactic (attempts to refute this will be ignored, the evidence is out there) and concentrate on driver training and licencing. Speeding laws certainly need to be upheld in the meantime, but they need to be addressed at a safety level, which includes interpretation of the the law.

I will tell you how to start minimising deaths on the road though: stop handing out licences like candy. Force people to take lessons before they're allowed drive on the road. Force new drivers to "wear" L plates, and carry qualified drivers. And take them off the road when they break these rules. Permanently.

adam

[Metrostars]

Sorry dahamsta, but you are a great driver only in your eyes. I'm sure there are also loads of 19 year olds who also think they're are good as Jeff Gordan or Micharl Schumacher. That is a subjective assumption. That is why speed limits are there, to try and slow down everyone, whether they think they are good drivers or not.

BTW, what are the fines for speeding nowadays there? I got a speeding ticket about 2 years ago on a Connecticut Interstate, stupidly doing 87mph in a 65 zone. Fine was $285. I was 3mph away from getting a reckless driving conviction with an appearance in court and possible suspension of my license. In CT, 3 speeding tickets(2 under 25 yo) within 3 years leads to a mandatory return to driving school or suspension of your license.