Driving

[dahamsta]

Sorry dahamsta, but you are a great driver only in your eyes.How do you know? I could be a qualified advanced driving instructor for all you know. (I'm not, but I don't make statements I can't back up either. I'll happily submit to review by one of those fellas if someone else will pay for it.)


I'm sure there are also loads of 19 year olds who also think they're are good as Jeff Gordan or Micharl Schumacher. There may be, but what's that got to do with me? My contention is very simple, and I'll say it for a third time: I am an above-average driver. I'm not saying - I never said - that I'm an expert, or anything like that. Just above average. Let's be honest, being above average isn't that hard in Ireland. The quality of driving is shocking.

adam

[osarusan]

I believe we have to move away from lowest common denominator policies and lowest common denominator politics and politicians, they're slowly but surely turning homo sapiens into into a helpless, sticky mass of morons. People need to take more responsibility for themselves individually.


It might cause a few more deaths but they were the idiots anyway!!

[dahamsta]

Sterilisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization) is the only way to go. ;)

[osarusan]

Sterilisation is the only way to go. ;)

I dont want to interfere with what is a serious debate, but...

You might be interested in this site.........ever heard of it?


http://www.darwinawards.com/

[NY Hoop]

How do you know? I could be a qualified advanced driving instructor for all you know. (I'm not, but I don't make statements I can't back up either. I'll happily submit to review by one of those fellas if someone else will pay for it.)

There may be, but what's that got to do with me? My contention is very simple, and I'll say it for a third time: I am an above-average driver. I'm not saying - I never said - that I'm an expert, or anything like that. Just above average. Let's be honest, being above average isn't that hard in Ireland. The quality of driving is shocking.

adam

Rainman also said he was an excellent driver.


KOH

[osarusan]

I will tell you how to start minimising deaths on the road though: stop handing out licences like candy. Force people to take lessons before they're allowed drive on the road. Force new drivers to "wear" L plates, and carry qualified drivers. And take them off the road when they break these rules. Permanently.

adam


This isnt meant to be a wind up in any way, it is a serious question.

Should all the above points be enforced, what should be done with somebody who admits speeding, but feels that because they are an above-average driver (a claim which may well be true), they dont think it is irresponsible?

[dahamsta]

I've already answered this: I believe it needs "to be addressed at a safety level, which includes interpretation of the the law". That interpretation should be used as regards learner drivers too. (There's a difference between not "wearing" L plates or not having a qualified driver in the car, and speeding. Speeding is relative, L plates are not.)

adam

EDIT: The "speeding kills" blunderbusses might want to take a look at the poll btw. ;)

[crc]

Your linking of statements about attitudes towards obeying the law and the middle east is both bizzare and stupid

You can express an opinion all you like on Foot.ie, but if you call me or any another poster "stupid" again, you'll be out on your ear, understood?
I thoroughly take exception to your threats. If you think your position allows you to censor the debate by threatening posters with expulsion, then you're worse than the 'government' you so like to bash.
FWIW, hoops1 did not call you stupid, he mere said that "your linking of statements... is... stupid" (which of course, it is).


Let's be honest, being above average isn't that hard in Ireland.
adam
You may be a good physicist, but you're no statistician. Being above average only requires you to be above 50%, so its no harder, nor no easier than being "above average" in any domain.

The last time I was done for speeding was at 1am on the way back from Shannon, in a 50kph zone that had been created as a kneejerk because of a crash. The crash happened during the day, not at night when you can see other cars because of those "light" things they have. The Gardaí hid their car under a petrol station canopy. There was zero traffic on the road.This is, in fact, your most farcical comment. First you claim that people can see better in the dark (sure you can see 'lights' from further away, but what about those magical objects that don't have "light things"??), and second, you say that the Gardaí 'hid' their car in a petrol station. A petrol station!!! Was this petrol station in an urban area, perhaps? Or did the Gardaí hide their car in the petrol station, and then walk a couple of kms into the countryside to the big, wide motorway just to catch you?

You... err sorry, your opinions... really are idiotic.

[dahamsta]

Calling someone's opinion "stupid" is the same as calling them stupid. If use has a problem with an opinion, they should refute it. If they don't, I will ban them for breaking the rule on personal abuse. If they (or you) don't like the rules, they should find another site.
My statement about averages should be obvious to all but a pedant.
The petrol station was in a rural area. I would have thought this was an obvious conclusion to draw, given the context.
How many cars do you see in the country without lights on?
You're already aware of my rule on personal attacks, so condider this your final warning: call me or anyone else "idiotic" or similar on Foot.ie again and you'll be out on your ear.
adam

[dahamsta]

I fail to see where all the animosity is coming from btw. Are you all that offended that someone might be a better driver that you? (Even though they didn't actually claim that.) Are you all 100% no-backsies convinced that "speeding kills"? No leeway, no acceptance whatsoever that accidents caused by speeding are ultimately caused by a lack of driving skill ("bad driving").

Do you always believe everything your government tells you, or just in this case? Do you think they're completely faultless when it comes to driving standards in this country? Is everything this black and white for you? Only Israel or Palestine can be at fault? The USA is never wrong? The IRA had no members that were in it for Ireland, and not the money?

What a depressing way to live life. It's no wonder you all drive like grannies. (Which I don't believe btw. Not for a second. You'll lecture here, and you'll bump past the speed limit on the way home. One day you'll get caught, and you won't tell anyone for fear of exposing yourself as the hypocrite you are.)

adam

[NY Hoop]

I fail to see where all the animosity is coming from btw. Are you all that offended that someone might be a better driver that you? (Even though they didn't actually claim that.) Are you all 100% no-backsies convinced that "speeding kills"? No leeway, no acceptance whatsoever that accidents caused by speeding are ultimately caused by a lack of driving skill ("bad driving").

Do you always believe everything your government tells you, or just in this case? Do you think they're completely faultless when it comes to driving standards in this country? Is everything this black and white for you? Only Israel or Palestine can be at fault? The USA is never wrong? The IRA had no members that were in it for Ireland, and not the money?

What a depressing way to live life. It's no wonder you all drive like grannies. (Which I don't believe btw. Not for a second. You'll lecture here, and you'll bump past the speed limit on the way home. One day you'll get caught, and you won't tell anyone for fear of exposing yourself as the hypocrite you are.)

adam


Pot. Kettle. Black.

YOU ARE IN MORE DIRE NEED OF YOUR HOLE THAN ANY MAN IN HISTORY.

So to sum up anyone who disagrees with your nonsense is barred. Bar yourself rainman and give this site to somebody who can have a proper debate.

KOH

[dahamsta]

So to sum up anyone who disagrees with your nonsense is barred.No, anyone who breaks the rules is barred. The words? Read them?

As to your other comment, you do understand the concept of "personal abuse", yes? You do understand that posting that kind of rubbish about anyone on Foot.ie is personal abuse? You do understand that posting that about the operator of Foot.ie is bound to get your kicked out on your ear, for just plain not being able to understand the rules?

adam

[NY Hoop]

No, anyone who breaks the rules is barred. The words? Read them?

As to your other comment, you do understand the concept of "personal abuse", yes? You do understand that posting that about anyone on Foot.ie is personal abuse? You do understand that posting that about the operator of Foot.ie is bound to get your kicked out on your ear, for just plain not being able to understand the rules?

adam

Oh I understand your rules alright. But the question is do you understand that when you talk rubbish people tend to react?

Get a life.


KOH

[dahamsta]

That's a week, you can't say you weren't warned. Feel free not to come back, you'll be no loss to Foot.ie.

adam

[DmanDmythDledge]

I think the main problem on roads nowadays is what peoples interpretation of speeding is. Speeding is not just going over the speed limit. A speed limit is the very maximum speed that is safe on a particular stretch of road(ok, in some cases they are ridiculously low). Sometimes, even if you are within the speed limit, it is dangerous to be driving at a certian speed. For example, if it is dark and raining heavily, on a busy road with a speed limit of 60mph, it would hardly be safe to drive at that speed. I don't think speeding can be justified, except in ridiculous 40mph zones.

[dancinpants]

Speed limit signs aren't put in place just for the craic...knowingly breaking the speed limit, and blatantly not heeding road signs makes you a bad driver. That being the case...




..... I'm a ****in' awful driver :eek: (only on freeways though ;) )

[Gareth]

If your banning NY Hoop Adam, you are going to have a lot of bannings on your hands, as I have seen worse than that on other threads. Eitherway its your forum, you can do as you wish. Eitherway, I will not debate about driving with you because I drive like a granny!!!

[dahamsta]

If your banning NY Hoop Adam, you are going to have a lot of bannings on your handsAs I say every time someone makes this point, there are hundreds of posts every day on Foot.ie - 400/day atm - and I don't see them all. NY Hoop got banned because he attacked a poster on a personal level, and he did it in front of someone that can do something about it. The fact that he did it in front of me, to me, given my track record in these circumstances, would suggest it was a suicide mission. I don't see why I should take personal abuse when I don't allow it for everyone else. Do you think I should make an exception for myself? (Rhetorical question. I don't and I won't.)


I have seen worse than that on other threads.If you see people posting like that, or worse than that, you should report the post, because it's against the rules. You'll find instructions on how to do that in the FAQ, in the Support forum.


Eitherway its your forum, you can do as you wish.Yes, it is; and yes, I will. The rules are there for all to see, and they're the reason why Foot.ie has been around for more than five years, and for nearly half a million posts. If the rules weren't there, Foot.ie would be gone the way of Johnny Ward's forum a long time ago. Would you like to remove the rules and let it descend into chaos? (Rhethorical. I won't.)


Eitherway, I will not debate about driving with you because I drive like a granny!!!Just as long as you keep up with traffic, that's fine with me. If you pull in when I want to pass, you'll get bonus points. You drive your way and I'll drive mine, and as long as you're not a bad driver, I'll be happy as a pig in muck.

adam

[Gareth]

BTW
I just read this:


I fail to see where all the animosity is coming from btw. Are you all that offended that someone might be a better driver that you? (Even though they didn't actually claim that.) Are you all 100% no-backsies convinced that "speeding kills"? No leeway, no acceptance whatsoever that accidents caused by speeding are ultimately caused by a lack of driving skill ("bad driving").

Do you always believe everything your government tells you, or just in this case? Do you think they're completely faultless when it comes to driving standards in this country? Is everything this black and white for you? Only Israel or Palestine can be at fault? The USA is never wrong? The IRA had no members that were in it for Ireland, and not the money?

What a depressing way to live life. It's no wonder you all drive like grannies. (Which I don't believe btw. Not for a second. You'll lecture here, and you'll bump past the speed limit on the way home. One day you'll get caught, and you won't tell anyone for fear of exposing yourself as the hypocrite you are.)


That is a load of trot to be fair. I couldn't give a donkeys if you were a grand prix driver once you obey the speed limit and drive responsibly. As for the rest of your post, what the f..... I have stated bad driving and speeding is an awful combo, but speeding reduces your reaction time and have you ever thought speed limits are not all about the guy driving but the people around you too. Driving on a road is not just about you, its about all the drivers on teh road, and hhence why we regulate speeds to deal with all. If there was no errors then we would live in a perfect world. You being a great driver, still means your prone to error, and I'd rather see you commit that error at a speed were you will not wrtie yourself off.

I was in a car that hit a wall after slipping on ice. 25 miles an hour in a 30 m zone. No harm done. If the car was going 70. That would be a different story

[dahamsta]

You're going around in circles Gareth. I've covered everything you've said already, I'm not going to repeat myself.

The poll is still 2:1 against, I notice.

adam

[Gareth]

The poll is stupid Adam. :) You have subliminally influenced the vote by linking the words with care with speeding. Anyway you are a lost cause. I hope your arrogance is not punished.

[dancinpants]

I'm a better driver than dahamsta, I've no way of proving it...I just am!!! :D

[dahamsta]

The poll is stupid Adam. :) You have subliminally influenced the vote by linking the words with care with speeding.It was entirely superliminal Gareth, to put across a view counter to what I consider a "stupid" suggestion in your first post: that people that speed "go hell for leather", etc. They're not murderous criminals, they're regular people; and they're in the majority. Unfortnately some of them are bad drivers too, but not all of them.

There are plenty of slow drivers in accidents, there are plenty of slow drivers that cause accidents. I call them "bad drivers" too. Are you seeing a pattern? ;)

adam

[Gareth]

It was entirely superliminal Gareth, to put across a view counter to what I consider a "stupid" suggestion in your first post: that people that speed "go hell for leather", etc. They're not murderous criminals, they're regular people; and they're in the majority. Unfortnately some of them are bad drivers too, but not all of them.

There are plenty of slow drivers in accidents, there are plenty of slow drivers that cause accidents. I call them "bad drivers" too. Are you seeing a pattern? ;)

adam

Couldn't give a flying fvck if they are the majority. I still think they should slow down. You seem to think that your either a "bad driver" or not, and there lies the cause of all accidents. Good drivers can have accidents, jesus man, obviously if you crash its the result of a mistake or an error and can be categorized as bad driving. What I am saying is at great speeds your more likely to die. Or cause others to. The one thing I am not stupid enough to think is just cos I can drive my car well, I will not err someday.

Arrogance diminishes wisdom.

[dahamsta]

Gareth, you're telling me not to have an all-or-nothing approach, when you started the thread with an all-or-nothing approach and continued it throughout; continue it even now. Do you not recognise the hypocrisy of what you're saying? How can you still be missing the point after four pages of this guff?

adam

[Gareth]

I would say the same of you. Put it to a public poll :)

[sligoman]

Put it to a public poll :)I agree, cos theirs no way people voted bad driving worse than speeding.

[dahamsta]

I won't be replying to this thread again. That suggestion is [edit] offensive. For the record, I have never edited a poll on Foot.ie except for a couple of the first ones that were posted, by me, for the craic; and they were edited in an obvious way. Just because you don't like the result, doesn't mean it isn't accurate.

Sligoman, I don't know if you have a bee in your bonnet over that last thread of yours, but the next time you have an accusation like that to make, you'd do well to keep it to yourself. That's just plain malicious. If you don't want to be a mod on Foot.ie any more, there are better ways to stand down.

adam

[Real ale Madrid]

I have been reading this thread with particular interest over the last few days. This is because I just bought a car at the weekend, passed the theory test yesterday and was out terrorizing the occupants of the Ballincollig bypass after the Rebel Army’s great win last night, whitening my fathers knuckles slightly!!! I must admit the amount of deaths on roads and the talk on this thread has left me slightly apprehensive about driving in the current climate. Everybody has been so opinionated on this thread that it leaves me a little perplexed. No-one can see other people opinions, but they believe their own opinions to be gospel. It a little bit like being behind the wheel – I’m right and everyone else is wrong.

For what its worth I think that bad driving causes accidents and speeding causes deaths. Driving over the speed limit is irresponsible in my opinion as in all probability if you drive within the speed limit it does not affect your chances of being in an accident – however if you are in an accident the faster you are going will directly impact on weather you survive or die, or weather you are injured or not, regardless of weather the accident was your fault or not.

[Block G Raptor]

Adam I think its worth pointing out that if a bad driver makes the mistake of doing something stupid in front of you while you're speeding then I would imagine the likelyhood of an accident is greatly increased. how many crashes are there on formula one circuits each year? and they are supposedly the best drivers in the world ffs nobody is Immune from crashing and if you speed then you are more likely to be involved in a smash no matter how much of a superduper whizz kid phyisist/mechanical genius you are or otherwise

[drinkfeckarse]

Adam I know you said you won't be replying to this thread again so I'll fire away ;)

I am surprised you cannot see why your attitude provokes the responces it has. You are basically saying that you are an above average driver (how do you know this or is this your own assumption and what would you class as an average driver?) and because you are a car nut ( "I know cars" etc) this means you are somehow more qualified to comment on what constitutes speeding etc.

As has been pointed out, the laws are there for a reason and are not for you to decide what suits you and when. Yes we all have been over the speed limit at times but I don't see how that makes anyone a hypocrite, it is not always easy to maintain the exact speed of a speed limit for various reasons. What I think people are getting at is that ( to me anyway ) you are coming across as someone who is almost proud to speed even excessively and without any doubt, this is dangerous.

Excessive speeding constitutes bad driving IMO. Just because you are intelligent doesn't mean you can see into the future and see a potential accident waiting to happen around the corner which just might have been avoided if you had been going just 10 mph less....

[Lionel Ritchie]

I haven't and won't be voting in your poll Adam as I feel that, be it by accident or design, it's highly leading.

I'd encourage others who haven't and won't be voting to say so and maybe we can torpedo this 2:1 myth.

Your definiton of Speeding "with care" fits into my definiton of bad driving. As we're not going to agree -we have the speed limits.

For what it's worth -I dunno whether I'm an above, below or bang on average driver and frankly couldn't give a tuppenny fcuk -so I haven't taken any umbrage at your claims to be a an above average driver*. Like I've said elsewhere - if I'd my way I wouldn't allow Jensen Button drive more powerful than a 1.2L on an Irish road til he's 26.

I drive to the limit and certainly on our 60mph/100kmph roads I'd surpass it within 10mph if I'm overtaking. Beyond that I tend to believe if you need to be there sooner -leave sooner. So I make no claims of sainthood.

*I'm probably a better drummer than most on here (what?!? Stewart Copeland's just registered!!!) and probably a worse guitarist.

But in the sack ...I'm the fcukin' man!!!!:cool:

[strangeirish]

But in the sack ...I'm the fcukin' man!!!!:cool:
Rumour has it that you are a bit quick in the sack. Have you had any accidents and if so, does that make you a good or bad fcukin' man?:eek: :D

[sligoman]

If you don't want to be a mod on Foot.ie any more, there are better ways to stand down.I know their is, I was just giving my opinion on the poll that it would make a better indication if the poll was public. I always make my polls public just in case anyone does accuse me of fixing the results!

[dfx-]

I voted Bad Driving..and would continue to vote that way. I will remain of the opinion that bad driving/bad drivers are at the root cause of accidents, not speed.


we have the speed limits.

Yep, you'd think if speed was the problem, those limits and the obsession on catching offenders (in the wrong place and for ridiculous reasons, but howandever), would stop the deaths occurring wouldn't you? But no, we also have people in the wrong lane, cutting across each other at roundabouts, on the phone, no seat belt, falling asleep at the wheel all happening instead, not concentrating on the road, driving recklessly etc etc. Bad drivers driving badly - imo, far more dangerous.

I'd agree with what most of what dahamsta has posted about the topic, both now and in the past. As for the banning of NY Hoop though, that's a different story.

[hoops1]

NY HOOP was told by Mr Dahamsta to get his Ma to write out
a note or he wouldnt let him play anymore!:rolleyes: childish stuff
because he didnt agree with him
One of the few posters that makes any sense.

[drinkfeckarse]

I voted Bad Driving..and would continue to vote that way. I will remain of the opinion that bad driving/bad drivers are at the root cause of accidents, not speed.


Nobody is technically wrong and bad driving/bad drivers cause more accidents than speeding I would think. My argument though is that speeding, especially excessive and aggressive speeding puts you into the bad driving/bad driver bracket....

[Dr.Nightdub]

I haven't voted because there's no single definition of "bad driving". DFX listed a load of transgressions which would qualify, but that list is by no means exhaustive.

By the same token, what Adam means by "with care" and what I interpret it to mean may be the same or may be miles apart. For instance, I know a guy who used to own a Maserati 3.2litre something-or-other - one Sunday morning he took it up to 140mph (that's miles, not kilometres) just to see what it felt like but did so on a long straight stretch of the M50. In that instance, you could say he was speeding "with care", given the environment.

But that's a fairly niche definition of "with care". Apart from such exceptions, then I'd say "Take it to the limit, one last time - but no further".

[John83]

...how many crashes are there on formula one circuits each year? and they are supposedly the best drivers in the world ffs nobody is Immune from crashing...
While I don't want to debate your point, that's a dreadful example. They're deliberately driving to within a hair's breath of their cars' tolerances, not just going a little faster than is recommended.

[Student Mullet]

Calling someone's opinion "stupid" is the same as calling them stupid. If use has a problem with an opinion, they should refute it. If they don't, I will ban them for breaking the rule on personal abuse. If they (or you) don't like the rules, they should find another site.
My statement about averages should be obvious to all but a pedant.
The petrol station was in a rural area. I would have thought this was an obvious conclusion to draw, given the context.
How many cars do you see in the country without lights on?
You're already aware of my rule on personal attacks, so condider this your final warning: call me or anyone else "idiotic" or similar on Foot.ie again and you'll be out on your ear.
adamAdam,
You claim to be a good driver and then ask a stupid question like this. There is more than just cars on the road. Pedestrians, most bicycles, stray animals and a hundred other things that you can meet on the road are unlit at night.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Adam,
There is more than just cars on the road. Pedestrians, most bicycles, stray animals and a hundred other things that you can meet on the road are unlit at night.

And then of course there are the narrow roads in country areas; where you used to be able to do 60 mph ;even when there are bends and twists in them where you will find most accidents actually occur, and not on Motorways here the Gardaí are shooting fish in a barrel as regards speeding.

[dahamsta]

You claim to be a good driver and then ask a stupid question like this. There is more than just cars on the road. Pedestrians, most bicycles, stray animals and a hundred other things that you can meet on the road are unlit at night.How many posts in the thread have you read Student Mullet? You've conventiently ignored the posts this was in response to, in particular the one where I explained why the area in question is a black spot; you also seem to have missed the post where I explained that calling people's opinions or comments "stupid" is not acceptable on Foot.ie. If you want to respond to something I've said, knock the cherrypicking on the head and read the thread in it's entirety; then respond without purposefully trying to get a rise out of people. That's how the Current Affairs forum works. If you want to continue in your current form, I'd suggest registering on Boards.ie and trying their Politics forum.

adam

[Student Mullet]

Adam,
I have read the post you were responding to. It said;
(sure you can see 'lights' from further away, but what about those magical objects that don't have "light things"??)to which you responded;
How many cars do you see in the country without lights on?The question was stupid because it ignored the point which crc was making, that there's more than just cars on the road.

In the post where you explained why the area in question is a black spot you said;
The crash happened during the day, not at night when you can see other cars because of those "light" things they have. When combined with the fact that you've dodged the question of unlit objects at night a couple of times in this discussion, this gives me the impression that you think it's particularly safe to drive fast at night because you'll see oncoming cars by their headlights and that your driving seems to take little account of unlit objects. This is why I questioned if your driving is as good as you claim.

On the procedural issue you raised (and feel free to move this section to a more relevant place) I did read the post (you may note that is is the same post which I quoted earlier) and I disagree with it. You can't have a rule which says 'attack the post, not the poster' if any attack upon a post is going to be interpreted as an implicit attack on the poster. If you require an example, please see here, where you were not calling Gareth an idiot but his suggestion idiotic;
That suggestion is not just idiotic, it's offensive.I gave my opinion, that your question was stupid, and I gave the reasons why I hold that opinion. I believe that I have acted entirely within the forum's rules.

[dahamsta]

I haven't dodged any question. I was talking about a particular incident, I can't help it if someone else wanders off topic and expects me to wander off with them.

As to my response to Gareth, that was wrong and I'll edit it. Calling someone's post "stupid" or "idiotic" results in flame wars (this is a fact, not an opinion). Please don't do it again, particularly in this forum.

adam

[drinkfeckarse]

I won't be replying to this thread again.


You did well to last 10 days in fairness, I bet you were itching to respond at times ;) :D

[Student Mullet]

I haven't dodged any question. I was talking about a particular incident, I can't help it if someone else wanders off topic and expects me to wander off with them.

As to my response to Gareth, that was wrong and I'll edit it. Calling someone's post "stupid" or "idiotic" results in flame wars (this is a fact, not an opinion). Please don't do it again, particularly in this forum.

adamGrand so, we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll keep within your new rule since you're happy to apply it to yourself aswell.

[Shelsman]

Stupid Question ( for the Poll ). My answer:

Speeding is bad driving.

[dahamsta]

You did well to last 10 days in fairness, I bet you were itching to respond at times ;) :DThread Tools > Unsubscribe from this thread. Only noticed the thread again it in one of my wanders around the site. :)


Grand so, we'll have to agree to disagree.Sounds good to me. CA would be a better place if more people could do that, rather than jumping down people's throats because they have a different view. (General comment, not directed at you.)


I'll keep within your new rule since you're happy to apply it to yourself aswell.I'd appreciate that.

adam