View Full Version : Totti the Cheat (to his own players and fans)
NeilMcD
05/07/2006, 11:43 AM
Anybody else think that Totti was a disgrace last night in his performance and behaviours. It was one of the worst, self centered performances I have seen in a long time. It reminded me of playing football as kid and there was always one guy playing on his own rather than with or for the team. In my view he was the exact opposite of Cannavarro last night.
eirebhoy
05/07/2006, 11:47 AM
Totti is an idiot but he was one of the best players on the pitch for the 1st 45 minutes. That is how Totti plays. He doesn't hold onto the ball and just gets rid of it asap. It's how he gets so many assists and should have had his 5th assist of the WC last night if Perrotta showed more composure.
I couldn't stop laughing when he tried to hurdle Ballack. :D
NeilMcD
05/07/2006, 11:49 AM
I think he played well possibly for the 1st 20 mins but I will give him 30 mins. But after that he was a disgrace in my view. In the 2nd half when they needed to keep the ball he never did. Zidane plays in the same position as him and he keeps the ball far better. Totti has been rubbish at every major tournament that he has played in.
eirebhoy
05/07/2006, 11:55 AM
Totti has been rubbish at every major tournament that he has played in.
I have to correct you on that. Only Zidane was better than him at Euro 2000. Regarding his first half performance - I went onto the BBC site at h/t and he was the highest rated players which isn't bad considering he's despised by most outside of Italy. In fairness, he's usually frustrating when he tries to do the impossible but after half time last night he couldn't even pull off the simplest of passes, every pass was going astray.
He's regarded as probably the best player in Serie A and that is by regular Serie A watchers. I don't think it's right to judge him on his performances in major tournaments without watching him weeks in week out for Roma. Probably only Henry would produce more end product than Totti at club level.
NeilMcD
05/07/2006, 12:25 PM
Sorry I am judging him on his performances for Italy as that says a lot about the guy. He does not do it for his national side. He was a disgrace last night in my view and any time I have seen him play he has been a disgrace. 2002 and 2004 he was a joke. Thats enough times I feel to judge him at international level. I agree he is top class at club level but that shows there is something vital wrong with his personality. I never said he did not have the ability THat is why my thread is titled Totti the cheat. I feel he is cheating the players the fans and managment.
Sheridan
05/07/2006, 12:30 PM
I thought he played selflessly and well last night. :confused:
Held his position, didn't try to make the world revolve around himself, recognised the limitations imposed upon his game by lack of match fitness and delivered some quality first-time mid-range passes behind the full-backs when the opportunity arose.
WeAreRovers
05/07/2006, 12:34 PM
I thought he played selflessly and well last night. :confused:
Held his position, didn't try to make the world revolve around himself, recognised the limitations imposed upon his game by lack of match fitness and delivered some quality first-time mid-range passes behind the full-backs when the opportunity arose.
Exactly but anti-Italian hysteria is hard to combat at times.
He was playing alongside Pirlo and Gattuso so his role was very well-defined and he did exactly what was asked of him. Fair enough he got tired towards the end but he had as much left in the tank as the much-vaunted Michael Ballack.
FORZA ITALIA
KOH
Dodge
05/07/2006, 12:43 PM
Jaysus, I thought it was the best I've seen Totti play in a major competition.
joeSoap
05/07/2006, 12:44 PM
He was playing alongside Pirlo and Gattuso so his role was very well-defined and he did exactly what was asked of him. Fair enough he got tired towards the end but he had as much left in the tank as the much-vaunted Michael Ballack.
KOHThats a pretty accurate assessment of how Totti did in my book and for NeilMcD to call him a cheat for having a particular style of play is an ignorant stupid remark. Cheating in my book is diving, trying to get others booked etc, not laying the ball off too quickly, or holding on to it for too long or not passing it well enough. Lippi knows what kind of game Totti brings and picks him accordingly. Clling him a cheat over his style of play is like saying Phil Mickelson is a cheat because he's a left handed golfer.Why isn't Ballack being called a bigger cheat for the way he drifted in and out of the game, and doing nothing really of note??
Stupidest comment I've seen posted here for a while.
Stuttgart88
05/07/2006, 12:45 PM
Thought Totti played well enough. Some of his passing was very speculative but sometimes it pays off & sometimes it doesn't.
The game in general was played in a great spirit, especially Gattuso who just goes up & up in my estimation, as a player and as a sportsman.
However, two natable exceptions were Ballack (pretending he was hurt SHAKING HANDS with Gattuso) and Totti who was holding his face pretending he was hurt so many times I lost count.
Exactly but anti-Italian hysteria is hard to combat at times.
He was playing alongside Pirlo and Gattuso so his role was very well-defined and he did exactly what was asked of him. Fair enough he got tired towards the end but he had as much left in the tank as the much-vaunted Michael Ballack.
I agree. Italy were not playing much of a possession game especially in the last third of the pitch. When people say he faded in the 2nd half they should remember he came into the tournament off a broken leg & hadn't played a game in the 2nd half of the Serie A season.
Its hard to compare him to Zidane or others as he a different player & more forward than midfielder.
The anti Italian bias is everywhere.
If he was crap why didn't Lippi sub him? He did it in other games.
NeilMcD
05/07/2006, 1:18 PM
Sorry can we stop this crap now. Anti Italian bias, I love Italy its country and its players and Cannavarro was top class last night. I jumped out of my seat when They scored and it was one of the most enjoyable games I have seen in a long time. So number for to say my comments were motivated or to hint that was the reason is ignorant.
Also I did not call him a cheat for having a particular style of play, and to say that is an ignorant remark in my view. I said he was a cheat because he was not selflessing dontating himself to the Italian cause. I have seen him play for Roma and I have seen him play for Italy. Its like 2 different things. His bevaviour in 2004 was a joke as was his performances in 2002.
In my view the guy is self centered and he plays the game as such. The amount of times he tried Hollywood passess last night both in the 1st half and the 2nd half was unreal. Giles compared him to Rodney Marsh and I would add Duncan Mckensie to this list also. Its a player playing to the gallery rather than doing the basics of football right which is keeping the ball and tracking back and tackling etc. So many Italian moves broke down when Totti got the ball because he kept on trying to make a killer pass which was clearly now working.
Also I posted a thread about Henry and now I post one about Totti and I get accused of not postilng about Ballack. I can only post up about so many players. Why did I not post up bout De Marcus Beasly or Frank Lampard or many many more. Cause there is only certain about of hours in a day.
NeilMcD
05/07/2006, 1:20 PM
If he was crap why didn't Lippi sub him? He did it in other games.
One reason penalties, Giles Dunphy and Brady said as much last night. I was shouting at the TV throughout the whole game at Totti for his performance before anybody accuses me of blindly following the RTE panel.
Giles & Dunphy have lost the plot so i don't listen to them anymore. FFS Giles was criticising Ronaldinho for not tracking back & marking players in the penalty box - he doesn't do that as thats for the plodders, better for him to be ready to counter-attack & win the game. I also heard Giles was saying Riquelme useless based on 2 games he saw against Arsenal.
:rolleyes:
I'll admit Totti not great but saying he was useless last night is over reacting.
Giles never said Riquelme was useless, he just said he wasn't the best in the world. I agree
NeilMcD
05/07/2006, 3:03 PM
Yeah totall misquoting of Giles.
Junior
05/07/2006, 3:54 PM
I thought he played well myself, as did all the Italian side, particularly the defence and midfield, with Toni being the only disappointment, although he still put in ad ecent shift.
Gattusso - Tireless tackling, breaking down of opponents attacks.
Pirlo - Absolute quality, taking the ball from defence (always an outlet) and safely starting off attacks, probing, keeping posession
Totti - Great Link up play, some fabulous through balls (yes they don't always come off).
Im not sure if you've been drinking too much Red Bull NeilMc but you appear very passionate about this subject??? As Dodge said, I thought it was one of the better performances I have seen from Totti.
Totti lost his super powers when he cut his locks. :p
eirebhoy
05/07/2006, 6:34 PM
I found that people watching the match on BBC didn't think Totti played badly but the lads on RTE absolutely hate Totti. I'm just happy Houghton wasn't commentating as he seems to hate all things Italian. :)
CollegeTillIDie
05/07/2006, 6:37 PM
Italy deserved to win last night end of story. I am with Brendan Behan on the subject of their begrudgers
Cannavaro is player of the World Cup and Buffon is the #1 keeper in the World!
Junior
05/07/2006, 6:43 PM
I found that people watching the match on BBC didn't think Totti played badly but the lads on RTE absolutely hate Totti. I'm just happy Houghton wasn't commentating as he seems to hate all things Italian. :)
Eirebhoy it was on ITV....................schoolboy error:D :D
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 9:28 AM
lads how many times have I to say it I was shouting for Italy and I hope they win the Final so whats this begrudgers nonesense.
John83
06/07/2006, 9:31 AM
Sorry I am judging him on his performances for Italy as that says a lot about the guy. He does not do it for his national side. He was a disgrace last night in my view and any time I have seen him play he has been a disgrace. 2002 and 2004 he was a joke. Thats enough times I feel to judge him at international level. I agree he is top class at club level but that shows there is something vital wrong with his personality. I never said he did not have the ability THat is why my thread is titled Totti the cheat. I feel he is cheating the players the fans and managment. In both 2002 and 2004, he was suspended for most of Italy's involvement for being dirty and petulent (c.f. Rooney, Wayne). He's an awesome player with a questionable attitude. I'm sorry, but you can't make a final judgement on a player based on three or four games.
Aside from which, the Italians consider him a fantasista, not a trequartista, like Zidane. He's not expected to hold up the ball. He's expected to pass it to the strikers, a rather difficult and thankless task when you're up against a defence playing like the Germans did on Tuesday.
joeSoap
06/07/2006, 9:32 AM
lads how many times have I to say it I was shouting for Italy and I hope they win the Final so whats this begrudgers nonesense.Its not begrudgery of Italy, more so than begrudgery of Totti. You just do not like him, plain and simple. The majority of others disagree....thats all.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 9:36 AM
Who says I judged it on 3 or 4 performances. Also getting sent off and personality are part and parcel of football. I did not question his talent I questioned his attitude and personality and that is why I called him a cheat. he is cheating himself and his team mates and the fans. He plays football for Italy for himself if that makes sense. What I mean is that when he puts on an Italisan jersey he seems to play for himself. His attitude stinks and I have seen many of Italys qualifiers and I have never been impressed by him in an Italian shirt.
Also this rubbish about what Italisan consider him to be, he is the player playing behind the front man. His job is to pass the ball to an Italian shirt regardless of where he plays there is no point in giving the ball away no matter where you play football. football is a simple game if you pass to your own team you are doing the right thing if you give it away to the opposition you are not.
John83
06/07/2006, 9:39 AM
...he had as much left in the tank as the much-vaunted Michael Ballack...
Sorry to go off topic, but Ballack was carrying an injury. At the end of normal time, the German physios were all over him, trying to coax a few more minutes out of him. Compairing his stamina with a fully fit player is an insult to a player who gave everything he had for Germany in the tournament.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 9:41 AM
Its not begrudgery of Italy, more so than begrudgery of Totti. You just do not like him, plain and simple. The majority of others disagree....thats all.
The person who mentioned begrudgery did not mention Totti but Italy and then Buffon and Cannavaro so I took it as begrudgery of Italy. There is no mention of Totti in Colleges post.
I love Italy and I love the country and I think this team is fantastic and I hope they win the tournament. Yet people replied to my original post by saying this is more anit Italian nonsense. This could not be further from teh truth but people made ignorant comments without knowing the motivation behind my original post. If they had of checked other posts by myself on other threads they would have seen I was an Italian supporter. Yet they went for the lazy option and said it was part of anti Italian feelings.
If I criticise Henry its anti Arsenal or Anti France, is there no player in world football that one cannot criticise without the lazy comeback of that is anti ........ fill in the blank there.
Totti wasn't fully fit. He missed the last 3/4 months of the season and it was doubtful whether he made the world cup at all. Ballack was poor the other night. If it was an injury, then its Klinsmann's fault for leaving him on.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 9:46 AM
Totti has been fully fit before and done nothing at international level. Brady is right in saying he is a joke of a player
Totti has been fully fit before and done nothing at international level. Brady is right in saying he is a joke of a player
*Sigh*
He's obviously not a joke of a player. yes he's had a couple of stinker tournaments (name somebody who hasn't) but he's been consistently one of the best players in one of the best leagues for a good while now. Added to that he's played well in this tournament
eirebhoy
06/07/2006, 10:08 AM
Neil, the anti-Italy accusations are gone since you denied it in the 12th post so you can let it drop now. ;) Anyway, I don't think you're getting the point. That is Totti's style of play. He was the best attacking player on the pitch in the 1st half and that is the real Totti.
He has won Italian player of the year twice, is a Serie A league winner and regarded as Italy's most valuable player atm. Jose Mourinho actually wanted to buy him this summer but Roma don't want to sell him. He's regarded very, very highly by anyone that watches him play. The combined total of his goals and assists before he got injured in February came to more than his 23 appearances. Lippi made sure he brought him to Germany even though he hadn't started a game since February. He's a world class player and anyone that watches him regularly will see that. Anyone that calls him a joke of a player doesn't watch Serie A, I'm pretty certain of that (Brady may want to think he does but certainly doesn't). Even Roma's most fierce rivals will admit that Totti is a class player.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 10:11 AM
Sorry but the fact that he has played well in Serie A only adds to the fact that he is a joke of a player. It means he is not putting in the effort or has the wrong attitude. The other night Dunphy said that Cannavaro is the sort of guy you would want to go to war with. In my view Totti is the last sort of guy you would want to go to war with along with Ronaldo. Both are cowards and are both what is wrong with the modern game. Over hyped over paid with the wrong attitude in my view.
I will name Paul Mc Grath who has never had a stinker of a tournament and Cannavaro, Klose and Robbie Keane.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 10:15 AM
Eirebhoy going by your logic on Totti in Serie Frank Lampard is a class player but you and i both know he is not a class player.
eirebhoy
06/07/2006, 10:27 AM
I honestly am completely lost as to the point you're trying to make Neil. Totti was the best player in Euro 2000 after Zidane. He hasn't performed up to his Roma level for Italy much since then but Thierry Henry plays to a quarter of his potential when in a French jersey.
Dodge
06/07/2006, 10:37 AM
I will name Paul Mc Grath who has never had a stinker of a tournament and Cannavaro, Klose and Robbie Keane.
Sorry should have stated that ex Pats players were obvious exceptions. Also players who have only played one tourament don't count. I@ll give you Cannavaro but point to Klose's efforts in the EUROs
Serie A goal of the season (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1689524927648347494&q=totti)
More goals from this season (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2361433411532738441&q=totti)
15 league goals last season dispite not playing last 3 months.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 11:23 AM
I honestly am completely lost as to the point you're trying to make Neil. Totti was the best player in Euro 2000 after Zidane. He hasn't performed up to his Roma level for Italy much since then but Thierry Henry plays to a quarter of his potential when in a French jersey.
I agree Henry is not great for France but he still has a huge number of goals for France and has scored 3 times in this tournament and got that vital goal V Ireland. The point I am making is all the things you say about Totti in Serie A could also be said about Lampard. Yet you and me included think that Lampard is an overated player who does not do it at teh highest leve and has many flaws in his game. Totti in my view has never really done it Champions League level or international level which are the true test of a player. I do not agree that he was the 2nd best player behind Zidane at Euro 2000. But even if he was that is a poor return for supposedly a world class player..
Totti in my view has never really done it Champions League level...
Might be difficult when his club team hasn't qualified...
eirebhoy
06/07/2006, 11:27 AM
I do not agree that he was the 2nd best player behind Zidane at Euro 2000.
Many would argue that he was player of the tournament.
Serie A goal of the season (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1689524927648347494&q=totti)
That goal of the season is a Totti speciality. It's called Il Cucchiaio or in English, the spoon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZLdRVVTwIg
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 11:27 AM
They have they won the league a few years ago.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 11:28 AM
Many would argue that he was player of the tournament.
That goal of the season is a Totti speciality. It's called Il Cucchiaio or in English, the spoon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZLdRVVTwIg
Never said he was useless at Serie A level.
That goal of the season is a Totti speciality. It's called Il Cucchiaio or in English, the spoon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZLdRVVTwIg
Thats the one. Couldn't find the start of that goal.
Sandro
06/07/2006, 11:31 AM
As a Lazio fan I shouldn't say that but Totti is a top class player, even if he's really playing crap at the moment, that's a fact. On the other hand, he's the living proof that every idiot can be succesful if gifted with physical skills. Basically he's regarded as a 100% pure fool with very limited intelligence (not too sure, I'd say he rather lacks personality, if anything) and no surprise he's the subject of thousands of funny jokes. Here's the one I received yesterday
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/79/1736/1600/LIFEISNOW.jpg
eirebhoy
06/07/2006, 11:47 AM
Never said he was useless at Serie A level.
What's wrong with Serie A level?
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 11:57 AM
Nothing but I think you have missed the point of my original mail. I never said that Totti was not a good player. I felt he was cheating the Italisan public and team mates by his peformances for Italy and his self indulgent attitude on the pitch when he plays for Italy. He fails to perform at that level. I think one of the reasons I brought it up was because his form for Roma has been so good over the last few years.
eirebhoy
06/07/2006, 12:03 PM
Surely cheating is the wrong word? You don't play badly on purpose. :D ;)
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 12:18 PM
Its through lack of effort and passion for the cause and believing in your hype so much. Trying to play killer passes all the time rather than mixing it up and knowing when is the right time to try them and when is not.
Junior
06/07/2006, 2:13 PM
Its through lack of effort and passion for the cause and believing in your hype so much. Trying to play killer passes all the time rather than mixing it up and knowing when is the right time to try them and when is not.
Neil, do you think Totti didn't care whether Italy won the Semi Final or not?
If you think he didn't care, I don't agree jst look at the full time celebrations. If you think he did care, then surely your argument is fundamentally flawed. Just because you don't like the way he played, the things he tried, doesn't mean he is cheating his public.
NeilMcD
06/07/2006, 3:27 PM
People can say they care and behave before and after that they care but they are not willing to put in the effort or make sure their skills are used in teh most productive manner in order for the team to win. The obvious example of this for me would be Roy Keane. Many people could question whether he cared or not about teh Irish football team and there are some questions to be answered by him. However when he was on the pitch he always made sure his efforts were selflessly given towards the good of the team.
Totti lacked that the other night so its not as simple as to whether someone cared or not. Its caring and then making sure what you are doing is the best thing to do in order to achieve the goal you are aiming for.
Junior
06/07/2006, 4:45 PM
Totti lacked that the other night so its not as simple as to whether someone cared or not. Its caring and then making sure what you are doing is the best thing to do in order to achieve the goal you are aiming for.
He had a role to play in the team as defined by Lippi. Sure, some players roles were to keep posession at all costs, play it simple etc... but other players do not have that role within a team, as in order to create opportunities you generally have to try something different, the spectacular pass, the dribble etc... often these don't come off but if it comes off once in 10 attempts then it may be worth it. That was Totti's role.
I just don't agree with calling him a cheat to his team and the public. He played the role requested of him by his manager, he was not hauled off by Lippi, In my opinion he played very well and also Italy won, Totti contributed to this win.
You don't need to reply to this if it is just to reconfirm the same views you have already posted. I can clearly see your position I just don't agree with it in the slightest.
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