Totti the Cheat (to his own players and fans)

[NeilMcD]

How do you know what Lippis role for him was. Also we know your view .

[Junior]

The whole bleeding thread is based on opinions!!!, of course we don't know for 100% if it was Lippis role for Totti, if he is a cheat and a disgrace, if he cares whether they won or lost, if he "lacked effort or passion for the cause", if he "used his skills productively"

what sort of a response is that??

You think he was a cheat, I don't.

[pete]

World CUp diving stats (http://www.informationbuilders.co.uk/ontheball/wcuk.htm)

[NeilMcD]

The whole bleeding thread is based on opinions!!!, of course we don't know for 100% if it was Lippis role for Totti, if he is a cheat and a disgrace, if he cares whether they won or lost, if he "lacked effort or passion for the cause", if he "used his skills productively"

what sort of a response is that??

You think he was a cheat, I don't.

There is a crucial different. You are using an opinion as way to defend or prove your opinion. What should happen in a debate that one uses facts to back up their opinion. As we know facts can be used or misused but that is how opinion is formed and expressed. However when you use opinion i.e. That was the role for Lippi to back up your point that he played well again your opinion, it lacks credibility as an argument during a debate.

[Junior]

There is a crucial different. You are using an opinion as way to defend or prove your opinion. What should happen in a debate that one uses facts to back up their opinion. As we know facts can be used or misused but that is how opinion is formed and expressed. However when you use opinion i.e. That was the role for Lippi to back up your point that he played well again your opinion, it lacks credibility as an argument during a debate.

Neil,

Tell me what facts you have produced to suggest Totti is a cheat to his fellow team mates or public? Show me some post match interviews from Team mates, Lippi, the Italian Public that prove your point? Prove to me that Totti 'lacked passion for the cause', that he 'believes his own hype'

I agree that all my posts on this subject are purely based on my opinion, Im also not deluding myself that its anything other than that - are you?

My opinion is based on:

A) Simple enough, I thought Totti played well.
B) I think Lippi thought he played well / carried out his job sufficiently for him not to be substituted in 120 mins of play.
C) In my humble opinion Gattuso's role was the ball winner, Pirlo's role was to sit in the the middle, be always available to receive the ball from defence, start attacks, get forward to support Totti & Toni etc..., Totti's role was in the whole between Toni and Pirlo/Caromanesi/Perrotta, link up play, creation of chances, score if possible, create something out of nothing - you get the picture.
D) I have heard nothing from the Italian squad to suggest Totti is a cheat to his team and his nation. Admittedly I don't read Italian Football message boards, so haven't gauged their fans opinions, but I would be surprised if they felt he was a cheat.

This is all in my opinion of course, but hey, you know that. I think the crucial difference between your argument and mine, is that there isn't one - both based on opinion. Now, these 'facts' that prove your opinions where are they again................................

[NeilMcD]

The fact that he kept giving the ball away nearly every time he got it led me to form an opinion. Also the fact that he was sent off for spitting before hand and has been disastrous in most of the major tournaments that he has played in. Those facts have led me to form an opinion on the player.

[Junior]

In that case I think B, C & D could all be termed as fact so.

Disastrous in major tournaments - in your opinion surely??

Fair enough Neil, we disagree. I just don't happen to think your argument has any more or less credibility than my own. I think we should leave it at that.

By the way, anyone who spits at another human is a toerag in my book, but I wasn't commenting on what type of a person he was, just what type of an influence he had on the game.

[eirebhoy]

That's all well and good Neil, we're arguing as to whether he's a cheat though. :)

[NeilMcD]

I think he is cheating his players and fans and country by behaving as if he is the star man and that he cares etc when the evidence on the pitch suggests something else. Its a different form of cheating as in you are not cheating the opposition but cheating your own teamates.

[Dodge]

Thread closed. FFS. same post everytime.

On and BTW Totti has been named in the "squad of the tournament"