Muppet Fenlon to play for a draw with 4-5-1 again

[CollegeTillIDie]

Odense 3 Shelbourne 0

Sh1t result lads . You are as good as out of the 2 Bob after that!

[CollegeTillIDie]

higgins

Ollie Byrne spoke at a public meeting some time ago and said that gate receipts represent 19% of Shelbourne's income !

[pineapple stu]

Winding up order doesn’t mean it was liquidation stu ???
Stop adding to the trash that goes around.
If it had gone through, it would have. My point wasn't that you were liquidated, but that the threat of liquidation was hanging over you. That's why I'd rather be a UCD fan than a Shels fan at the moment.


We owed the tax man money and it was paid and to use your own words, PROVEN!!
Again, there were significant unpaid bills this season. Just because one's gone doesn't mean others aren't there. Again, another reason I'd rather be a UCD fan than a Shels fan at the moment.


but a large part of Shels cash flow is determined through gates from home games.
Ooooh...you wouldn't be living in Fairyland now, higgins, would you? Shels' income has been quoted in papers as close to E2m. At an average of 20 home games a season, you'd want to be bringing in 100,000 people @ E10 a head to make that. You get about a fifth of that.


In your fairyland idea of a well run club.
Another reason I'd rather be a UCD fan than a Shels fan just there. What an idiotic comment.


That nothing is said about possible grounds until its 100% done and dusted?
Funny, I seem to recall an interview with Ollie on your website when, in response to a question about what would happen if the Dalyer ground share fell through, Ollie said "There is no Plan B". Yet now everything's planned, just not announced?


ALL shels bills to date have been paid!!!
Can you prove that? Or are you just throwing soundbytes about because they sound good? There are many Shels bills outstanding at present. At the minimum, that's because of the simple accounting reality that you usually take 30 days' credit, and so will always have some bills outstanding. But of course, facts don't seem as important to you as soundbytes.

Of course, when the tax was paid, it was said that Shels now owed nobody anything. Then the printers came along. Then the wages came along. If they get paid, you'll argue you now owe nothing, but history shows that there's another bubble about to burst.

Reality is that tax is the first bill you pay, because of the Revenue's powers to come after you for the money. If you can't pay your tax, then the chances are there's a lot of other bills outstanding as well. The alternative is that you're really stupid and pay the stationer before the taxman.


when I have you backed into a corner.
:D

The issue was raised that (a) UCD fans knew nothing about Europe because we'd never qualified - nonsense - and (b) that Shels fans ought to be happier than UCD fans, which, going on our survival prospects for ten years' time, is also nonsense. Am I not now allowed to reply to that?

I don't like to see Shels - or any other eL club in trouble. However, it irritates me to see clubs cheating, spending money they don't have, running up huge bills and generally wrongly getting an advantage over properly run clubs, while the FAI stand idly by all the time despite bringing in a mechanism to stop this crap. So I do have a vested interest in the issue.

[higgins]

higgins

Ollie Byrne spoke at a public meeting some time ago and said that gate receipts represent 19% of Shelbourne's income !

Ok and how does that compare to the other 21 tems in the EL ? and whats your point other then gates are a disaster?

[pineapple stu]

You said that Shels' gates are a high percentage of their income and so the income wasn't reliable, which led to an occasional backlog of debts. However, this isn't true.

[higgins]

If it had gone through, it would have. My point wasn't that you were liquidated, but that the threat of liquidation was hanging over you. That's why I'd rather be a UCD fan than a Shels fan at the moment.

Threat of liquidation is gone, I'm a very happy shels fan at the moment.



Again, there were significant unpaid bills this season. Just because one's gone doesn't mean others aren't there. Again, another reason I'd rather be a UCD fan than a Shels fan at the moment.

There are plenty of bills at Tolka. Tax was paid yes but your correct others exist but that not reason enough for me to become a UCD fan :) bills are part and parcel of any business.



Ooooh...you wouldn't be living in Fairyland now, higgins, would you? Shels' income has been quoted in papers as close to E2m. At an average of 20 home games a season, you'd want to be bringing in 100,000 people @ E10 a head to make that. You get about a fifth of that.

Home games have a lot to do with cash flow. If you think it doesn’t then there's nothing I can do for you. One fifth is one fifth! And it all adds up. Id like it to be higher but its not. Lots of clubs use their gate money through the season to pay various bills.



Funny, I seem to recall an interview with Ollie on your website when, in response to a question about what would happen if the Dalyer ground share fell through, Ollie said "There is no Plan B". Yet now everything's planned, just not announced?

My point was that WE PLAY IN TOLKA!!!
Your not getting that point. Yes we looked at Donabate Yes we looked at Dalymount and now we are looking elsewhere but we are still at Tolka so I don’t see why your so concerned over our move.



Can you prove that? Or are you just throwing soundbytes about because they sound good? There are many Shels bills outstanding at present. At the minimum, that's because of the simple accounting reality that you usually take 30 days' credit, and so will always have some bills outstanding. But of course, facts don't seem as important to you as soundbytes.

Of course, when the tax was paid, it was said that Shels now owed nobody anything. Then the printers came along. Then the wages came along. If they get paid, you'll argue you now owe nothing, but history shows that there's another bubble about to burst.

Reality is that tax is the first bill you pay, because of the Revenue's powers to come after you for the money. If you can't pay your tax, then the chances are there's a lot of other bills outstanding as well. The alternative is that you're really stupid and pay the stationer before the taxman.

It proved on the basis that you have not heard of anyone not getting their money over the years. Of course there are bills at the club but every intention is there to pay those bills when I said bills were paid is was on an ongoing basis as they arise. Shels have not went and paid everyone 4% or anything like that yet and until they do I don’t see any cheating!!



The issue was raised that (a) UCD fans knew nothing about Europe because we'd never qualified - nonsense - and (b) that Shels fans ought to be happier than UCD fans, which, going on our survival prospects for ten years' time, is also nonsense. Am I not now allowed to reply to that?

I don't like to see Shels - or any other eL club in trouble. However, it irritates me to see clubs cheating, spending money they don't have, running up huge bills and generally wrongly getting an advantage over properly run clubs, while the FAI stand idly by all the time despite bringing in a mechanism to stop this crap. So I do have a vested interest in the issue.


Again you go back to the word Cheating?

Explain how Shels have cheated???
I take it Cork are now cheats in your mind?

[higgins]

You said that Shels' gates are a high percentage of their income and so the income wasn't reliable, which led to an occasional backlog of debts. However, this isn't true.

Point taken butit is an important part for every club and even at one fifth it goes a long way. You have Cork now stating their 7 weeks without a home game was putting them in trouble with bills?? are they talking nonsense too

[pineapple stu]

Threat of liquidation is gone, I'm a very happy shels fan at the moment.
It's all better so? Gone and never going to come back? Fair enough.


There are plenty of bills at Tolka. Tax was paid yes but your correct others exist
Funny that. Earlier you were saying that

ALL shels bills to date have been paid!!!
Which is it? Or are you just making things up again? That would never do, higgins, would it?


One fifth is one fifth! And it all adds up.
You said it was a "large part". For the primary function of a club's activities, one fifth is not a "large part". It certainly isn't crucial to keeping bills paid.


My point was that WE PLAY IN TOLKA!!!
Tolka is sold. The clock is ticking on your time there. There's an article saying as much on your own website. On your own website is an interview with Ollie saying that if the Dalyer groundshare fell through, there was no Plan B. I'd be quite happy not to be in that situation, to be honest.


It proved on the basis that you have not heard of anyone not getting their money over the years.
Proof indeed. :rolleyes:


Explain how Shels have cheated???
I take it Cork are not cheats in your mind?
Cork have cheated. Pat's have cheated. Bray, Bohs, etc, etc have cheated to an extent. It can't go indefinitely. Sooner or later, you'll find clubs copping onto themselves and cutting back. Then the clubs who are used to living within a budget and who are doing alright for themselves on a small budget will start to do even better for themselves.


You have Cork now stating their 7 weeks without a home game was putting them in trouble with bills?? are they talking nonsense too?
Of course they are. The more sensible ones acknowledge that.

[higgins]

Stu Im not saying shels have every bill paid up in full, what I was saying is that there is no 4% payments being made and every bill shels have will be paid. Thats the theory behind all businesses I assume and Shels are no different.

What bills are not paid seen as your well able to state we owe so much?

Gone never to come back???
who is to say that?? You have a crystal ball!! No club could say they will never run into money problems, you plan not to but not everything goes to plan.

While in talks with Bohs Ollie was not working on a Plan B !!!!!!!!
What is your problem with this???

While you were looking to move to the new site in Belfield were you working away on other options??? I dont mean have ideas in your head but actually working on them! Thats what Ollie meant. We are playing in Tolka need I remind you and when we move it will be to another ground. there was no panic to have people working on plan b c d etc.
Dalymount didnt happen so then Ollie went looking at other options.

I cant see how this is any concern to you ???
Its nothing point and keeps you going around in circles which is the way you like to do things. Not content to debate the one point in full you always resort to adding in other crap that deflects attention to your original lies.

[pineapple stu]

Stu Im not saying shels have every bill paid up in full
Hmmm...can't quite see a different meaning to...

ALL shels bills to date have been paid!!!


What bills are not paid seen as your well able to state we owe so much?
It's irrelevant which ones. All that matters is that you don't pay other bills at the expense of letting Revenue taxes build up. SO there have to be some sizeable bills left unpaid.


Gone never to come back??? Who is to say that??
You said...

Threat of liquidation is gone, I'm a very happy shels fan at the moment.
I wouldn't be happy if I thought there were a chance of the threat coming back. I would take it that if you're so happy, you reckon the Revenue are gone for good.


While in talks with Bohs Ollie was not working on a Plan B !!!!!!!!
He doesn't have to be working on one - he just has to have one! Particularly seeing as Plan A was clearly never going to work.


While you were looking to move to the new site in Belfield were you working away on other options??? I dont mean have ideas in your head but actually working on them! Thats what Ollie meant.
No it's not. He quite clearly said "There is no Plan B." in relation to what happens if Dalyer falls through.


Not content to debate the one point in full you always resort to adding in other crap that deflects attention to your original lies.
They're lies now, are they? Have you any proof of that?

Mods - feel free to lock, incidentally.

[Student Mullet]

Keep it on topic lads.I'm going to withdraw my earlier comment. This cat fight is quite entertaining.


Mods - feel free to lock, incidentally.You could always just stop posting. I think we know what your opinions are at this stage.

[On Topic]Sorry for going back on topic but what was the formation like out in euro land? Was it the usual 4-5-1 or did he change it after yee went behind?[/On Topic]

[higgins]

Stu I have gone over this many times. Bills are paid on an ongoing basis at Shelbourne. They come in and they are paid off same as most other clubs but probably not as quickly as everyone would like. Certainly Revenue didn’t like the speed at which the tax bill was cleared and as a result issued the winding up notice.

I cant be much clearer on this one, I'm not denying there is debts at Shelbourne but what I am saying to you is that the bills are paid, NOT Paid as in everything is up to date but paid as in they will be dealt with in time. IF UCD have no outstanding bills at present then fair play to them, they are doing a great job but its not a crime to have outstanding bills.

PAID as in 100% not 4% or whatever it is that would fall under "cheating"…

I think at this stage your just being difficult for the sake of your argument.
A 5 year old child would have understood what I was getting at….

As for ollies no Plan B :)
Do you know Ollie ???
If you could work out from a comment on the web chat that Ollie had no others thoughts in his head then your something special! I cant take those comments seriously on the Plan B. He was trying to get Bohs to deal with Shels and let them into Dalymount (deal I never wanted) and you think he was going to say on the internet he had ideas for Plan B ? Your very naïve if that’s what you thought.

And as for the proof of your lies.
You come on here making statements about Shels. Liquidation Cheating and so on and cant back them up. Your expecting me then to prove that shels don’t cheat??? Maybe if your going to come out with statements like that you should be the one to come out with some proof of your own.

[Drumcondra Red]

Stu, there is a plan B in mind. FACT!

[pineapple stu]

Ah. Well, if you'd said FACT earlier, I'd have been saved all this bother.

[Drumcondra Red]

Do you honestly believe that Ollie Byrne didn't have a plan B in mind, seriously???

[pineapple stu]

There's nothing at present to show he had a Plan B. Including him telling Shels fans he didn't have one.

I think a mroe pertinent question is do Shels fans honestly believe he has a Plan B?

[Shelsman]

Still don't see the relevance of all this to Shelbourne's tactics in Europe.....