Shels players not getting their wages?

[Poor Student]

Higgins, you're gonna love me for this.:D I have heard nothing about this myself but there's threads doing the rounds on various club boards and boards.ie with people saying they've heard Shels are having difficulty paying players wages. There's all sorts of rumours about players walking out for free due to payments due to them not happening (like Foley at Bohs). Cork fans in particular seem to be suggesting Kearney will come back to Cork and there's also rumours about a raft of players (Crowe, Ndo, Moore) heading to Drogs and that Hawkins won't play again until he is paid. As I say, I haven't heard this myself but read it in a few places, so don't shoot the messenger. Anyone know anything about this?

[Macy]

Seen that myself - isn't there talk of Fenlon being owed nearly €20k too?

[sonofstan]

Heard all of this too - although the names mentioned were slightly different; either way, there would appear to be a haemorrage of players to Drogheda on the cards come July

[manic da hoop]

If true wouldn't the tactful Mr Fran Gavin of the PFAI have gone running crying to the national media by now to kick up a fuss the way he always does?:rolleyes:

[gufct]

12 weeks wages allegdly so i guess the players are in the same boat. Maybe the answer to above is too closely connected.

[Peadar]

Isn't going to drogs just like going from the frying pan to the fire?
Sure drogs will be the next club unable to pay their players wages!
I suppose they might get a season and a bit out of them yet though.

[Mr A]

Whatever about the current rumours they'll definately have to trim back once the 65% wage cap comes in- the question would be how that will affect Drogheda, as they are spending savage money already and and are now looking to add more big earners. How can that be sustainable..

And why oh why would Cork take Kearney back?

[chippie0001]

I have been told by a player, that they went on strike for 2 days. The PFAI have been in. Shels are paying all the players some wages which might mean they cannot walk ala Foley and Bohs.

He says some want out, mentioned Hawkins to Droghega. I guess if they are true the transfer window will show it one way or the other.

Lastly the builders that own Tolka won't give any more money to Ollie until he is out, so that might explain the cash flow issues.

All of the above total rumours I add.

[ColinR]

the only way its sustainable for us is if the directors keep putting the money into the club.

the only way that it will be allowed under a 65% of turnover rule would be if the money is invested in the club as a donation/sponsorship etc (a form of income for the club) rather than a directors loan (debt!!).

[joeSoap]

And why oh why would Cork take Kearney back?
Because:

a). He's a class player.
b). Because they have no squad and need all the quality they can get
c). I'm sure they are not petty and don't let trivial things like him walking away for more money cloud their judgement.

[rerun]

Isn't going to drogs just like going from the frying pan to the fire?
Sure drogs will be the next club unable to pay their players wages!
I suppose they might get a season and a bit out of them yet though.

I wouldn't think that. Dorgheda have firmer plans regarding relocation, plus they have a better catchment area from which to grow their supporter base. I know Drogheda is a small town (largest in Ireland though!) but they don't have to compete with other teams a mile up the road and two others in a very short bus rides distance.

[dcfcsteve]

the only way its sustainable for us is if the directors keep putting the money into the club.

Donations/loans are not a sustainable form of income, and are not recognised as such by anyone with an ounce of financial kudos.


the only way that it will be allowed under a 65% of turnover rule would be if the money is invested in the club as a donation/sponsorship etc (a form of income for the club) rather than a directors loan (debt!!).

That sounds like a recipe for bankuptcy, if you ask me. Firstly, the FAI will not be looking at 'turnover', as it is a fairly meaningless firgure for anyone who isn't excited by profit margins and notions of scale. That would leave the only route to cook the books to get round the 65% wage cap being to have grossly inflated sponsorship income. If Drogheda are banking serious money against advertising hoardings, programme ads, match sponsorship etc etc, then questions will undoubtedly be asked. One way or another, if Drogheda expect to continue living beyond their means (which is what donations do) the new system will trip them up sooner or later. That's if they don't go tits-up before hand themselves.

[micls]

While i'd be happy to take Liam back if its for free....lets be honest we can't afford to be too picky with our left side at the moment- i'd much rather Ndo. If Drogheda get him it'l hugely strengthen their chances of winning the league IMO

[ColinR]

Donations/loans are not a sustainable form of income, and are not recognised as such by anyone with an ounce of financial kudos.

of course they are not recognised as a sustainable form of income - my point was clearly that they are the only reason why are current spending is not putting the club in any short-term difficulties. (long-term is a different kettle of fish imo)



Firstly, the FAI will not be looking at 'turnover', as it is a fairly meaningless firgure for anyone who isn't excited by profit margins and notions of scale.

if the accounts are prepared correctly, and audited correctly, then turnover should not be a 'fairly meaningless' figure, but should in fact be a very very important figure for every club.




That would leave the only route to cook the books to get round the 65% wage cap being to have grossly inflated sponsorship income.

which is what i said originally. (technically it is not cooking the books either, and would be totally legitiamte - but also expensive for the directors ;) )

[DruggyDrog]

I'd say other clubs will have to watch themselves long before the Drogs do. Despite all the media drivel and seemingly endless supply of misinformation form supporters of various clubs, the Drogheda wage bill is not as 'extravagant' as some would have you believe, and is not even the most 'extravagant' in the league!!
Oh, and as for the 'inflated sponsorship' and other ways of cooking the books, there are still a few dirty clubs out there!!

[Vitruvian Man]

Just for pig-iron.

What do Drogs fans reckon their total wage bill is.

Rumour and tattle says they are now the second highest spenders after Shels.

[Dodge]

I know of at least one Shels player who is actively touting (tarting?) himself around clubs in the greater dublin area.

[Poor Student]

Has this reached the media? (I'm abroad right now)

[A face]

If Drogheda get him (Ndo) it'l hugely strengthen their chances of winning the league IMO

I dunno about that .... Ndo might not suit Doolins tactics, or lack of.

[sonofstan]

I dunno about that .... Ndo might not suit Doolins tactics, or lack of.

be a shame if he gets to warm the bench at another club

[Anto McC]

Cork fans in particular seem to be suggesting Kearney will come back to Cork

Promise???

Everything posted is rumours,im not saying it isnt true but i would much rather make a comment based on facts than rumours!

[ndrog]

I dunno about that .... Ndo might not suit Doolins tactics, or lack of.

oh yeah , we are top of the leauge and setanta cup holders because doolin hasnt a clue about tactics.Give me a break .

[A face]

Give me a break

I'll give you nothing, get back in your box !! :eek: :D

[Raheny Red]

Has this reached the media? (I'm abroad right now)

Nope, not in the slightest, even The Sun won't stoop to that level :rolleyes: :p :D

[hoopy]

IHe says some want out, mentioned Hawkins to Droghega.


There's a surprise. I sometimes wonder if this guy has any interest in the game of football. I know footballers are greedy by nature but this muppet(and a totally overrated one at that) has only ever been interested in money.

[kdjaC]

Nope, not in the slightest, even The Sun won't stoop to that level :rolleyes:


What level? The level being a in weird position where players who you watch actually live on your road?


I started a thread on boards.ie about this as a shelbourne player informed me of this. Of course hes mate so i wouldnt name him, but fact his he owes me 20 bleedin quid :D


Lol but seriously this is fact he has not been paid for a while and others are in the same situation. Im sure we all live near players and do hear about things within the league from them 1st.

kdjac

[Roverstillidie]

interesting that stephen mcguinness hasnt gone to the papers in the same blaze as he did when rovers were in the same boat.

why is that stephen? :mad:

[A face]

interesting that stephen mcguinness hasnt gone to the papers in the same blaze as he did when rovers were in the same boat.

why is that stephen? :mad:

Did it work for him last time ??

[Roverstillidie]

Yes, but bear in mind when he was affected by it he seemed to be far more urgent in bringing the situation to a head

[higgins]

Higgins, you're gonna love me for this.:D I have heard nothing about this myself but there's threads doing the rounds on various club boards and boards.ie with people saying they've heard Shels are having difficulty paying players wages. There's all sorts of rumours about players walking out for free due to payments due to them not happening (like Foley at Bohs). Cork fans in particular seem to be suggesting Kearney will come back to Cork and there's also rumours about a raft of players (Crowe, Ndo, Moore) heading to Drogs and that Hawkins won't play again until he is paid. As I say, I haven't heard this myself but read it in a few places, so don't shoot the messenger. Anyone know anything about this?

Rumours.........

Well its no shock to anyone that Shels find it hard to pay the wage bill every week. Im amazed Ollie has kept it going this long to be honest but you might be a little ahead of yourself with the two players walking line.

20 players travelled to Lithuania with Gary and Greg staying behind due to them being injured. Thats everyone accounted for in my head :confused:

If two players have walked they seem to have had a change of heart.

As for the not being paid for weeks. Players are entitled to walk away when they are not being paid now and I would fully expect some of the current squad to do exactly that IF they were not being paid. The fact they all travelled to Lithuania would seem to indicate its only a rumour.

As for Hawkins and Kearney!!!
Id gladly accept it if it was the two of them that walked :)

It is very difficult to pay wages at an EL club and with Shels probably being the top spenders (not sure about Drogheda) it is hard work week in week out to come up with the cash.

Few years back you would have got away with a few weeks delay or players taking big reductions but in todays EL if you dont pay them their money they will kick up a fuss. Im not sure what the exact situation is with wages in Tolka but nobody seems to have walked, even if I wish a couple of them would!!

[Raheny Red]

interesting that stephen mcguinness hasnt gone to the papers in the same blaze as he did when rovers were in the same boat.

why is that stephen? :mad:

Maybe because Nutsy held the same position as him for a no. of seasons ;)

[Roverstillidie]

higgins, is every single thing posted here about shels a rumour or part of some vast anti shels conspiracy?

we know for a fact that this is happening because people know shels players.

i heard nutsy was owed cash months ago from a personal friend of his.

[dcfcsteve]

if the accounts are prepared correctly, and audited correctly, then turnover should not be a 'fairly meaningless' figure, but should in fact be a very very important figure for every club.

I have to take you to task on this.

It's got nothing to do with the books being done correctly or not - by it's nature, turnover is the least relevant bottom-line figure on a firm's accounts, unless they are interested in profit margins or 'scale' over actual profit.

As an example - a supermarket chain could have a €1 billion annual turnover, yet only make a €5m annual profit : because it's a low margin business. That could make it much less profitable than, say, a luxury goods company with a turnover of only €50m, but a much higher profit margin.

So whilst turnover may make you feel good about the overall scale of operations of a football club, it's of much less relevance than the actual balance between your income and expenditure : i.e. your profit or loss. Hence why it's relatively irrelevant, and hence why people like the FAI will be more concerned with other figures.

Lecture over..... :D ;)

[Student Mullet]

The point you're missing Steve is that a shop's aim is to make a profit but a football club aims to win matches. The key number in a clubs accounts is not profit but expenditure and that's the figure the FAI are pegging back.

[ColinR]

thank you student mullet. it is a very important figure as it decides the basis of what a prudent club/company etc has available to spend - which as student mullet has pointed out, this is what the fai are trying to get clubs to control.

it is the only 'simple' figure that should be available as a basis for setting a wage cap within our league - and therefore controlling the key expenditure item for each and every club.

your lecture is also irrelavant as you are comparing example companies from differing industries - wheras the fai will be looking at club's financial records which all form part of the same industry - i.e football clubs. and as such it is an important starting figure, and is relevant across the board.

Therefore it is actually a more relevant figure than the many others (such as net profit/(loss) etc)for setting future expenditure caps - as it dictates what each club (remember we are all in the same industry!!!!) can spend (if current income trends remain), in order to prevent clubs going under.

lecture over ;)

[razor]

but in todays EL if you dont pay them their money they will kick up a fuss.Well its hard to blame them as they are now full time and no doubt have mortgages to pay, kids to feed etc etc

[Poor Student]

We have Kdjac who claims he knows a Shels player not being paid, there's another boards.ie poster who claims Richie Baker has told him he hasn't been paid for two weeks, RTID says a friend of Nutsy told him he's not getting paid and on the Cork board there's some lads there making it out like one of the Cork lads at Shels have told them the same. Either they're all filthy liars working in tandem against Shels or there is something up. I think Shels were unable to pay their printers the other week to get a programme out for the Bohs game and theres the €300k tax bill which could only be paid via a bridging loan. Fenlon also did state explicitly there's no money for bringing in players. This story seems quite plausible to me. I've also seen it said that Tolka's new owners are not prepared to put anymore into the club via bridging loans.

[pete]

Too many shels rumours so hard to know whats true or not.

Heard one few weeks ago that on the verve of bankruptcy but didn't hear anything of...

[el punter]

I am a Bohs fan but I never wanted to see Rovers go under (despite hating them) but I would be absolutely delighted to see Shelbourne Football Club cease to exist.

Elaborate on why that is - Shels have brought a lot to the league over the past 20 years in particular, why would you want to see them disband?

[Dodge]

Elaborate on why that is - Shels have brought a lot to the league over the past 20 years in particular, why would you want to see them disband?
Because "rules are rules" when it suits them
Because they've mortgaged their whole future on short term success
Because Ollie Byrne is a criminal
Because he's a f.ucking c.unt too
Because when winning the league they brought less than 1,000 fans to a game in Dublin
Because of repeated legal challenges
Because of having too much influence within the FAI/el
Because of at least 100 other reasons I'll let others vent...

And Can I ask you to elaborate what Shels have brought to the league in the last 20 years

[el punter]

And Can I ask you to elaborate what Shels have brought to the league in the last 20 years

I think they've been synonymous with a raising of the standard of the football within the league. They have to be credited for their European exploits and the work done to make Tolka Park the best ground in the league.

I accept that they are a litigous lot to say the least, and have questionable financial nous, and have a very poor supporter base. But I don't see how Irish football improves by losing Shelbourne.

They may well prove to be a cautionary tale for the Irish game as Leeds Utd were for the Premiership.

As for Ollie Byrne - he is not Shelbourne, he is a man behind Shelbourne; a club that was around long before he got involved and hopefully long after his involvement.

[Speranza]

Ollie Byrne is Mr Shelbourne and he instils in the club an attitude of thuggery from punching cameramen to Fenlon ignoring bans. This attitude also exists with the players who are, to a man, dirty *******s.

[Roverstillidie]

I think they've been synonymous with a raising of the standard of the football within the league. They have to be credited for their European exploits and the work done to make Tolka Park the best ground in the league.


all based on an unprecedented level of borrowing that has ultimatly cost them their stadium. our financial friends call it a bubble, and guess what bubbles do?

as dodge says, its harder to be sympathetic to the culture that exists at tolka park. and even harder to understand the reaction (or lack thereof) of the shels fans.

could you imagine any of the other premier clubs forums being so silent if this sort of news was announced to them? :confused:

[el punter]

You would think at least one of their fans would have turned up here by now to defend some of this :)

With no Shels, and Bohs out in Castleknock, the Northside of Dublin City will have a big hole in it where football used to be. And that will be sad to say the least, regardless of what you may think about Shelbourne their lack of fans and the way they conduct themselves.

[Anto McC]

Shelbourne are scum, their players are scum, they are run by a ex-con cheating thug, their fans are deluded twits, I hate them.

How many fans turned up at the game after their "glorious" 0-0 draw with Deportivo?

If Shelbourne went up in flames tonight I'd go to Drumcondra, cut off the water supply, and have a barbecue.

:( What??

Oh my god..........are you serious..........how could you say such a thing.........thats not very nice at all.......why dont you like us......this is such a suprise :rolleyes:

Listen son,jealousy is a terrible thing!

[dcfcsteve]

thank you student mullet. it is a very important figure as it decides the basis of what a prudent club/company etc has available to spend - which as student mullet has pointed out, this is what the fai are trying to get clubs to control.

it is the only 'simple' figure that should be available as a basis for setting a wage cap within our league - and therefore controlling the key expenditure item for each and every club.

your lecture is also irrelavant as you are comparing example companies from differing industries - wheras the fai will be looking at club's financial records which all form part of the same industry - i.e football clubs. and as such it is an important starting figure, and is relevant across the board.

Therefore it is actually a more relevant figure than the many others (such as net profit/(loss) etc)for setting future expenditure caps - as it dictates what each club (remember we are all in the same industry!!!!) can spend (if current income trends remain), in order to prevent clubs going under.

lecture over ;)


Hang on Colin (apologies to everyone else for the brief aside from Shels's' implosion..). Did you read Student Mullett's message at all ?? :confused: He basically agreed with me !

He says that EXPENDITURE is the key figure in football. I said that TURNOVER WAS NOT THE KEY FIGURE, and others were more important - such as profit, income and expenditure. Therefore, we're broadly in-agreement.

Turnover is largely irrelevant here, and it will NOT be the key figure the FAI will be looking at in clubs.

Now write out 100 times..... ;)

[higgins]

You would think at least one of their fans would have turned up here by now to defend some of this :)

With no Shels, and Bohs out in Castleknock, the Northside of Dublin City will have a big hole in it where football used to be. And that will be sad to say the least, regardless of what you may think about Shelbourne their lack of fans and the way they conduct themselves.

Bohs in Castleknock ???
When :confused:

It will be a long long long time before that happens, IF that happens.
They have still not signed the contract for the 'easy money' 2 million.

Plenty of hard work ahead if they are to get out of Dalymount.

As for NO SHELS :)
Way ahead of yourself there !

[Risteard]

Is your sig meant to be ironic Higgins?

[higgins]

No,

Wheres the irony ?

[Risteard]

I think the consensus is he's not good at football anymore.
At least not to fight for a place with Robbie Keane, Kevin Doyle, Stephen elliot, Lee Trundle nor Jason Byrne or Gary O'Neill for that matter.