Euro 2008/future

[concanta]

I am looking forward to the world cup because I am a massive
football fan but it is quite difficult to be really excited when we
are not participating

I am looking ahead to the European Championship qualifiers starting in
September. I do agree at the moment that things do not look too rosy but
As mentioned before I think the most important thing for a team like Ireland is
To work together as a team and get our spirit back. While I agree that we need more than that – look at teams like Greece and Switzerland and their success. I actually fancy the Swiss to do really well at the word cup. I believe once we have that spirit back then we can build. We still have some world class stars – given, keane and duff
And some very good ‘potentials’. I can understand why Staunton didn’t want many
End of season friendlies as the palyers would be tired and disinterested but in one way it would have been nice to see some more players.

Regarding our group – I think it would be good if the Czechs and Germans had prolonged stays in the world cup – teams that do really well in world cups often have
A lull at the beginning gof their next qualifying campaign. I also qould question the Czechs – I believe they will reach their sell by date at this world cup and can see a few players retiring from the scene. Germany are rebuilding and have some good young players but are beatable. I am not sure about Slovakia – they did well in their group and may be a team to fear. I really do not rate Wales at all and think we can hold them off. The most important thing for me is to make landsdowne/croker a fortress and win our homes – if we do that I believe we WILL qualify.

In my opinion the defense is pretty much decided ( assuming carr comes back ) will
Be given, carr, o’brien, dunne, finnan – yes some would say its average I would say unspectacular but that doesn’t mean a bad defence I think that could work ok

Midfield worries me more at the moment – Duff, S Reid and in my opinion A McGeady should be def starters against Holland/Germany. I do not know who will play in central midfield with reid – perhaps have a look at garvan – (Ireland/0’brien)
I still think Andy Reid is a class player if he can lose about 3 stone – he looked unbelieveably overweight for a footballer against chile – up front keane/doyle/Morrison

I think we will squeeze through

[Dublin12]

I think we will finish fourth in this group just ahead of Cyprus and we won't even be in the shake up going into the last couple of rounds.

[eirebhoy]

I'm happy with the group. We won't be expected to beat the Czech's which is always a good thing. After the world cup I think we'd match them on a player by player basis with the probably retirements of Nedved, Smicer, Poborsky, Galasek and Koller.

[concanta]

The great thing about football is things can change so quickly.

By the end of the year we could of possibly got a few good results and one or 2 of these young players might have emerged as quality players and that will gel the whole team

[bwagner]

Cyprus Away 05..............they Fukin Humiliated Us For 85 Mins (even With Are Senior Players That Are Now Retired...yeah Right We Will Be In The Mix ...no Chance ...deafeats In Germany, Czech Republic And Slovakia Are An Absolute Certainty, Scabby Draw At Home To Slovakia And Two Home Defeats To The Germans And Baros And His Crew...leaving Us 4th Seeded For Wc 2010 And The Spiral Continues

[eirebhoy]

Cyprus Away 05..............they Fukin Humiliated Us For 85 Mins
and if we didn't score after 6 minutes we would have been all over them. It's the way it worked under Kerr. :) Switzerland also had it tough against Cyprus. They only scored in the 88th minute to beat them 1-0 in Switzerland. The game in Cyprus was tough too and it was 1-1 after 70 minutes. They gave Wales a really tough time and I remember watching the highlights of that game. But for the Welsh keeper Cyprus would have won 3 or 4 nil but it ended 1-0. They also gave the Faroes their biggest home defeat since 2001 recently.

[Stuttgart88]

There were 2 posts here recently, one saying that in the late 80's and early 90's we had a team full of winners, and another saying that our problem isn't so much lack of ability but that there are too few leaders.

I'd tend to agree, especially regarding leadership. I think it's unrealistic in the modern premiership to expect a full team of Irish to come from MUFC or Chelsea or wherever and many of the players we do have are playing for clubs for whom success is staying up or sneaking a UEFA spot so having regular achievers isn't likely.

But I think we're lacking in natural winners / achievers. For example, Andy O'Brien, who I rate actually, is seen more often in club football with his hands on his hips having had the ball just go in off his shins for a deflection, whereas McGrath or Moran would have deflected it wide (accidentally, but you get my jist). Richard Dunne, again who I rate, is prone to carelessness and outright bad luck that his predecessors would never have suffered. Steven Reid, fine player that he is, depends on confidence whereas Andy Townsend was cocky as ****.

Some guys are naturally cut out to succeed and we don't have enough of them.

I think the team is lacking stature: both moral and physical.

I watched the Ireland vs England Feb '95 goal on google video yesterday (I was showing my American boss the footage of the England fans!) and noted just how assertive and confident John Sheridan was from box to box making the goal. Who do we have that can do that now? I also noticed just how much bigger our players were then, with no Liam Miller midgets attempting to dominate midfield.

[Reality Bites]

One or two injuries to players of quality and we're fooked in this group, if dunne, duff, or keane were to be injured we don't have quality to back these up, oh to have Englands resources i.e sending defoe home!! but more than anything this group lack the character of there predecessors, these will be required in abundance when your up against it in Prague and Bratislavia.. Oh wait hold on a minute we have John O'shea enforcing our midfield dominance...Nuff said..4th place at a canter me thinks, Czech to top followed by Germany, Slovakia and a dog fight with wales for Fourth.. how
our pedigree has slipped under Kerr

[bwagner]

ah eire you cant defend that performance man serioulsy.
wales are muck and have 16,17 and 19 year olds in there team and the swiss are the new eire in the early 90's...lucky as hell

[4tothefloor]

We're in big trouble. Look at it this way. It would be no surprise to me if we got a 'heroic' draw in Germany and seemingly a great start, like we always do. But when push comes to shove we do not have the players or the ability to get the right results in the return games at home. We can't take the game to teams at home. This has been proven over the last few campaigns where we have thrown away qualification in our HOME games. We're just not technically good enough. The better teams just come to Dublin and shut up shop. Any team that has a go seems to score.

We're now facing a campaign with our worst squad since Mick McCarthy took over from Charlton. We have no central midfield. Our defence is leaky. Our key players Duff & Keane consistantly under perform. Our promising players such as McGeady, Andy Reid, Stephen Ireland, Joey O'Brien etc can't hold down regular places, or are played out-of-position at their clubs. Don't even mention our strikers - a disaster. Looking at us now, we're in terrible shape. As an earlier poster said, we're basically depending on good fortune for this campaign - Hoping the Germans/Czechs will have an extended, but unsuccessful WC, that the Czechs will have a lot of retirements, that the games in Croke Park will give us an extra 20%.............I think it's madness that some are predicting qualification. How can we qualify with club utility players and championship standard footballers?

[eirebhoy]

Or you could look at it another way. In Given, Finnan, Dunne, Duff and Keane we have 5 of the best players in their position in the premiership. Steven Reid is now fulfilling his promise too, being linked with Man U and Spurs shows how much he has come on this season. That's 6 players that I feel are as good as the Czech Republic's 6 best players they'll bring to Lansdowne after the World cup.

We have a few weak links. Kavanagh and Harte will have to fill in in their respective positions for the time being. I think Kav-Reid could be an excellent partnership. O'Brien has never put a foot wrong for Ireland and Kevin Doyle, while yet to prove himself at the top level, certainly looks capable of partnering Keane up front.

It could be worse, we could be the Czech's with 4 of their best players retiring after the WC. :)

[colster]

Consider the following. In 2002 WC the 1st team was

Given

Carr Breen Staunton Harte

Kelly Holland Kinsella Kilbane

Duff Keane

IMO The team below would beat that team.

Given

Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan

McGeady S.Reid O'Shea Duff

Doyle Keane.

[Paddy Garcia]

Consider the following. In 2002 WC the 1st team was

Given

Carr Breen Staunton Harte

Kelly Holland Kinsella Kilbane

Duff Keane

IMO The team below would beat that team.

Given

Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan

McGeady S.Reid O'Shea Duff

Doyle Keane.

If we are comparing the qualification team, then it is against a midfield of Holland & Keane. In which case the "new" midfield would never get hold of the ball. The "old" backs would be well protected & their forwards well supported.

[colster]

If we are comparing the qualification team, then it is against a midfield of Holland & Keane. In which case the "new" midfield would never get hold of the ball. The "old" backs would be well protected & their forwards well supported.

Thats true, but still the team that played in the WC 2002 did very well and had the Spanish on the ropes and people say it was a missed opportunity.
Some of the comments here and in other threads suggest that we would have been an embarrassment at this WC. I don't think we would have.
We have a decent back 5, very good wingers, good strikers. We need to sort out central midfield. I think the Reid/O'Shea partnership is useful to start with. I know O'Shea is still inconsistent but I believe that if we give him time then he will grow into a very good holding midfielder. Remember not so long ago people would not have had Richard Dunne anywhere near the side but he has turned his career right around and has matured into an excellent centre half. I think O'Shea could do the same and should be given the chance.

[Kingdom]

. We need to sort out central midfield. I think the Reid/O'Shea partnership is useful to start with. I know O'Shea is still inconsistent but I believe that if we give him time then he will grow into a very good holding midfielder. Remember not so long ago people would not have had Richard Dunne anywhere near the side but he has turned his career right around and has matured into an excellent centre half. I think O'Shea could do the same and should be given the chance.

Dunne was consistently showing form at club level and not transferring it to the national squad. O'shea isn't showing form full stop.
Having watched "the Da Vinci code " last night and seeing what the mad monk 'Silas' did to himself, I'd be delighted to see the same thing happen to John O'Shea after every game. It would be the ultimate pleasure/pain scenario!

[colster]

Dunne was consistently showing form at club level and not transferring it to the national squad. O'shea isn't showing form full stop.
Having watched "the Da Vinci code " last night and seeing what the mad monk 'Silas' did to himself, I'd be delighted to see the same thing happen to John O'Shea after every game. It would be the ultimate pleasure/pain scenario!

Dunne used to have a problem with his concentration. He would invariably good for at least one lapse. He was never that consistent. He had some excellent games e.g. against Holland and Portugal. Since Keegan gave him his warnings he has been the model of consistency.

I think O'Shea has suffered from being moved all over the place by United. He is not a left back but has done OK there. I can only remember one bad mistake he's made for Ireland and that was when he played center half. I think O'Shea could be a good CM if he just plays it simple, has a bit more concentration and is more aggressive. I think he can learn that and could prove a very useful stop gap until one of Ireland, OBrien, Garvan can step up to the mark.

[Kingdom]

I think O'Shea has suffered from being moved all over the place by United. He is not a left back but has done OK there. I can only remember one bad mistake he's made for Ireland and that was when he played center half. I think O'Shea could be a good CM if he just plays it simple, has a bit more concentration and is more aggressive. I think he can learn that and could prove a very useful stop gap until one of Ireland, OBrien, Garvan can step up to the mark.

Without trying to offend you but does what you wrote above not seem a bit silly? In my mind what you're saying is this:
"If he was completely different he'd be great!"

[tetsujin1979]

I think O'Shea has suffered from being moved all over the place by United. He is not a left back but has done OK there. I can only remember one bad mistake he's made for Ireland and that was when he played center half.
I think it's accepted that O'Shea doesn't make many mistakes, but he does very little to win the game and often goes missing for long periods of the game. Playing at centre half and centre midfield you would expect him to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward. But he doesn't, which leads to the criticism

[colster]

Without trying to offend you but does what you wrote above not seem a bit silly? In my mind what you're saying is this:
"If he was completely different he'd be great!"

How so? He can learn to concentrate more, he can learn to play it simple and he can learn to be a bit more aggressive/determined. He is still quite new to CM. These are things he can pick up with games, the things that come with experience. I think he has the raw material to be a good defensive CM. He needs some direction and fine tuning but if he applies himself he could do that.

[colster]

I think it's accepted that O'Shea doesn't make many mistakes, but he does very little to win the game and often goes missing for long periods of the game. Playing at centre half and centre midfield you would expect him to take the game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward. But he doesn't, which leads to the criticism

For starters I'd settle for someone who breaks up the play, protects the back four and keeps it simple so others can go out and win the game for us. If he can do that then I'll be happy.

[Stuttgart88]

O'Shea has buckets of talent but I really think he's lacking mentally, be it belief, or concentration or whatever. I've generally been very supportive of him but it really is time for him to remove any doubts & he's been doing anything but. He has all the physical attributes & the passing range, but not a central midfielder's instinct or awareness. But as Robson says, if he just learns to do things simply...

I do share Colster's optimism in several respects though. In fact I'm looking at Japan vs Australia live at work at the moment & I really think we're better than both. Australia exhibit none of the flair you expect from a Hiddink side and play a very direct Ango-saxon game ( though as I type they have just equalised & now Cahill has just scored a 89th minute belter & now a solo third goal too!!).

Aiden McGeady would have a field day down Australia's left side which has been wide open a few times. Robbie Keane has far more to offer than many forwars I've seen in this tournament.

Just look at how Robben flourishes away from Mourinho's control-freakery. I think Duff would do the same.

There was a whole cocktail of reasons why we've been underperforming. Lack of a winning mentality, too much respect for the opposition, Robbie Keane not being match fit prior to any key game, Finnan not being favoured, sub-standard midfield in terms of creativity and so on. Some of this can be put rigfht immediately & despite Chile I think Staunton & Robson can get this lot to improve.

[tetsujin1979]

Just look at how Robben flourishes away from Mourinho's control-freakery. I think Duff would do the same.
Ditto Essien againt Italy, showed a far greater range of skills than the usual terminator role he plays for Chelsea. Long passes, tackles, and if he had his shooting boots on he could have a had a hat trick. I think the form of Robben and Essien, never mind Lampard, could show what Mourinho is doing to these players, and why Duff should get out of there ASAP

[Reality Bites]

The Czechs were hugely impressive last nite albeit against a poor US side, I shudder to think what Rosicky will do to the Irish Midfield in the Autumn. I think we are in for a rough ride with these qualifiers perhaps our worst in years!

[Metrostars]

The so called demise of the Czech team is great exaggerated, they were brilliant yesterday. Clinical, well organized, Bruckner's tactics were perfect against the US. The US are not as bad as they looked yesterday as the early goal more or less finished them off. Plus they didnt even have Baros and Koller(for most of the game).

Even if Nedved retires after the WC, they still have a lot of quality in the team.

[concanta]

I have to say I honestly believe that the US are shocking. Yes the Czechs were very good but I would rate the US as being in the bottom 8 sides in the tournament..... It will be hard - we need to find our starting team

I hope/dream that Andy Reid will lose about 2 stone this summer and S Reid goes to Spurs - that could work very very well in our favour.

There are also rumours of Duff going there - being a Liverpool fan I would prefer us to buy him, but for an Ireland point of view - it would be nice to have 3 midfielders at spurs

[Paddy Garcia]

......but for an Ireland point of view - it would be nice to have 3 midfielders at spurs

It would be good to have one midfielder playing regularly at Spurs.

[4tothefloor]

IMO The team below would beat that team.

Given

Carr Dunne O'Brien Finnan

McGeady S.Reid O'Shea Duff

Doyle Keane.

Given - Top Class
Carr - Eternally injured and never performs for Ireland. Can't be relied on.
Dunne - Steady but prone to mistakes.
O'Brien - Prone to mistakes. No pace. The new Gary Breen.
Finnan - Great player, but no good to us if he's constantly played out of position. Left back? Should be ahead of Carr at RB everytime.
McGeady - Has potential, but that's all at this stage. Not convinced by him.
S.Reid. - Should stay put at Rovers cos Martin Jol doesn't know his @rse from his elbow. Could easily end up warming the bench there. Bit of a headless chicken for Ireland without an experienced player alongside him.
O'Shea - Sweet mother of Jesus........
Duff - Needs to move from Chelsea and Jose's poisonous football, and fast. A shadow of his former self, and not getting any younger.
Doyle - Potential. We'll see how good he really is next season. Still behind Morrisson and Elliott IMO.
Keane - He's fine as long as he's flavour of the month at Spurs, otherwise forget about it. As I said about Jol........And he'll have Berbatov to contend with next season.

Just to add - If we're depending on John O'Shea to pull the strings in our midfield we're in serious trouble. Steven Reid is a bit of a headless chicken, but in a good way because it's all energy and aggression. O'Shea is a headless chicken because he's brainless. His decision making is bland, and as a result his passing is bland and his influence on the game is minimal at best. Pairing O'Shea with Reid is a recipe for disaster. Especially when we have a defence with no pace behind them.

What we can hope for is that some of our potential young players step up a level next season, some new players come on the scene and that our existing players like Andy Reid move and get some first team football.

[eirebhoy]

4tothefloor - You're glass is certainly half empty. Why did you try to find the negatives in all the players you mentioned? I'm suprised you didn't comment on Givens kickouts.

Staunton has some really good players to build around in Given, Finnan, Dunne, Duff, Reid and Keane. As good as the 6 best Czech players that'll travel to Dublin in October if you ask me. They're weaker players are just not that weak though.

[cavan_fan]

Keane - He's fine as long as he's flavour of the month at Spurs, otherwise forget about it. As I said about Jol........And he'll have Berbatov to contend with next season.


No time to go through all of the whining here but one point is that Robbie wont be competing with Berbatov, who is a replacement for Mido in the big guy role. If, as is thought Jermaine Defoe moves on he may have less competition

[colster]

Given - Top Class
Carr - Eternally injured and never performs for Ireland. Can't be relied on.
Dunne - Steady but prone to mistakes.
O'Brien - Prone to mistakes. No pace. The new Gary Breen.
Finnan - Great player, but no good to us if he's constantly played out of position. Left back? Should be ahead of Carr at RB everytime.

Firstly, that back 5 is better than the one we had in the 2002 World Cup. It has more pace than the 2002 world cup and a better left back. Dunne is quick, good in the air, strong and a decent passer of the ball. O'Brien is better than Breen. It is a pretty solid defence.



McGeady - Has potential, but that's all at this stage. Not convinced by him.
S.Reid. - Should stay put at Rovers cos Martin Jol doesn't know his @rse from his elbow. Could easily end up warming the bench there. Bit of a headless chicken for Ireland without an experienced player alongside him.
O'Shea - Sweet mother of Jesus........
Duff - Needs to move from Chelsea and Jose's poisonous football, and fast. A shadow of his former self, and not getting any younger.

The wingers are better than 2002. Duff and MacGeady v Kelly and Kilbane no contest!!! Central Midfield is debatable but I feel that O'Shea and Reid have potential. O'Shea needs to concentrate on defence and making simple passes and let others give the attacking impetus. I think Reid, McGeady, Duff and Keane can give us that impetus.


Doyle - Potential. We'll see how good he really is next season. Still behind Morrisson and Elliott IMO.
Keane - He's fine as long as he's flavour of the month at Spurs, otherwise forget about it. As I said about Jol........And he'll have Berbatov to contend with next season.

I like Doyle. He has a bit more about him than the other 2.
Keane has matured into a very good player. He no longer tries to take every one on and has become a better and more intelligent passer of the ball.




Just to add - If we're depending on John O'Shea to pull the strings in our midfield we're in serious trouble. Steven Reid is a bit of a headless chicken, but in a good way because it's all energy and aggression. O'Shea is a headless chicken because he's brainless. His decision making is bland, and as a result his passing is bland and his influence on the game is minimal at best. Pairing O'Shea with Reid is a recipe for disaster. Especially when we have a defence with no pace behind them.

What we can hope for is that some of our potential young players step up a level next season, some new players come on the scene and that our existing players like Andy Reid move and get some first team football.

I'm not suggestinng that O'Shea become the play maker. I see him as the destroyer. Reid gives us energy from box to box and is a threat from long distance and in the air. I think they'll do with support from Kavanagh, A.Reid, Miller and the younger players like Ireland, Garvan and O'Brien hopefully making the step up.

[Emmet]

We do have some really good players that is true - but the problem is that in any team Centre Midfield is probably the most important area of the team and that is where we are weakest by a mile! Keane and Holland have just retired so the next twelve months will be real test for Staunton. If he can sort out the centre of our midfield even adequately we'll have a good chance in next season's Euro qualifiers

[eirebhoy]

Steven Reid is going on to be the best box to box player we've had in a long time imo. John O'Shea doesn't do him justice. Stick Kav in beside him for the time being and they'd form a formidable partnership.

[colster]

Steven Reid is going on to be the best box to box player we've had in a long time imo. John O'Shea doesn't do him justice. Stick Kav in beside him for the time being and they'd form a formidable partnership.

Not entirely convinced by Kavanagh. He doesn't have the mobillity and not great defensively against stronger opposition. He is a lot better than OShea at shapinng a game and might be better used against weaker opposition. Against the likes of the Czechs and Germany we may have to use a more defensive midfielder which is where the likes of O'Shea comes in.

Having said that, who knows maybe the likes of Ireland, O Brien, or Garvan will make a big statement next season and make the position their own.

[Emmet]

Agree with you about Steven Reid - but his is just potential right now ... fingers crossed he will come in and perform well. I think it might also be worth looking at moving someone like Duff who we all know is exceptionally talented into the middle to play alongside him. I don't think Kavanagh or O'Shea are good enough tbh

[eirebhoy]

Agree with you about Steven Reid - but his is just potential right now ... fingers crossed he will come in and perform well. I think it might also be worth looking at moving someone like Duff who we all know is exceptionally talented into the middle to play alongside him.
That's more attacking than Sven's midfield. ;)

[4tothefloor]

Against the likes of the Czechs and Germany we may have to use a more defensive midfielder which is where the likes of O'Shea comes in.

That attitude is the reason we don't qualify for tournaments. We need to produce a result, ie. beating one of the top teams, if we are to qualify for the Euros. We are always defensive and are rubbish at it. We need to take a leaf out of Israel and Switzerlands book and actually have a go in the crunch games of the qualifiers. Otherwise we'll be watching it on tv again.

[mypost]

We are always defensive and are rubbish at it. We need to take a leaf out of Israel and Switzerlands book and actually have a go in the crunch games of the qualifiers.

Which one of the big teams did Israel and Switzerland beat in the last qualifiers? :confused: Israel were never ahead in their games, and Switzerland are one of the luckiest sides in football, ffs. Switzerland lost to France and Ireland on away goals, Turkey lost to them on away goals after scoring 4 times. We could, and should have qualified, and even though we didn't play well, we never got any lucky breaks, that the Swiss got. If we had scored at Lansdowne against them, the situation now would have been reversed.

[DmanDmythDledge]

At home yes, but I think a draw away from home would be an excellent result.

[Forever Dreamin]

Well so much for all the Czech-lovers on here . . . they were made to look dog average tonight by Ghana. Anyone else think we can turn them over?

I reckon theitalians will turn them over too and we should get 3 points at home in October.

[Hither green]

Well so much for all the Czech-lovers on here . . . they were made to look dog average tonight by Ghana. Anyone else think we can turn them over?

Couldn't agree more. I've always thought if we can sort ourselves out we can get out of the group. Possibly top it. Germany and the Czechs are okay teams, you'd expect them to be well organised and to put up a fight but neither are what they were. A few good players but they're hardly top notch. How the Czech Republic are 2nd in the world has always amazed me.

[dancinpants]

The quality is there...maybe lacking in a couple of areas, but in general we've got a decent squad. For me its all down to how that squad is managed now.

As said earlier, Ghana have shown that the Czechs are beatable. As for Germany - IF we can stop them from scoring, we WILL beat them....Robbie Keane will have a field day with their defence.

One more thing, Clinton Morrisson <--- Now THATS a headless chicken. Doyle to partner Keane without question.

[Stuttgart88]

The Czechs look poor without their first 2 strikers. The guy they had on in place of Koller looks worse than Doherty even. I agree that if everyone is fit we'll be able to cope in this group. We were relying on players returning from injury or warming the bench for their clubs too much last year.

Given that the title of this thread includes ''the Future'' I'm going to quoute Gerard Houllier from today's Sunday Telegraph, commenting on what he's seen of the WC so far:

'Football is changing - and for the better. [The] World Cup has seen such a resurgence of skill & speed to suggest that Greece's triumph...was a once off.

The trend towards skill rather than systems, or at least the higher priority given to skill, will be good for the game's future because it points the way for the young, who will have to work on speed & technique if they want to make their living from the game."

I think this observation is spot on & I've felt for ages now that the game in the rest of the world is moving on from the style played in UK & Ireland, though I still think that England's direct approach could still reap rewards simply because many of the major countries are still ''work in progress'' whereas this England team is closer to its peak.

Do we have players skillful or athletic enough to thrive in the current environment? Yes: Duff, Robbie, Doyle, Given, Finnan, McGeady, Steven Reid (certainly in athleticism).

Are any of these playing in a culture that emphasies these merits? No, not really, but we've debated this to the nth degree.

At one stage I honestly thought Kerr had twigged this. The way we played in Paris & the fast moving passing game we played against Faroes 4 days later. Don't laugh: the Faroes game was a classic example of how to go about winning a game against a minnow. Pass the ball quickly & confidently (not like England vs T&T) and the poorer teams can't cope. One subsequent failiing in my opinion was to treat Israel away differently.

Can we employ our better players in a team system mimicking those we've seen thrive in the WC? I like to think so. I accept that playing in a finals is different to qualifying. Sometimes the latter is a battle of attrition, but by & large I think Stan has got to combine the spirit of his era with the modern approach being exemplified in these finals.

To those on this board close to the FAI or with proper coaching experience, how does the FAI's Technical Development plan stack up? Is it simply churning out players for the Enmglish lower leagues, or is it a genuine attempt to turn out young players capable of matching the technique of the best abroad?

[Stuttgart88]

On Doyle vs Morrisson: Morrisson for the immediate time being in my opinion. Doyle & Keane is still a rookie partnership. Clinton has the experience & has a knack of getting goals. Only if Doyle & Robbie play well together against the Dutch would I start with them.

Doyle to come of the bench in Stuttgart. Let Morrisson run himself ragged for 55 minutes. Not once did we have a threat from the bench to either (a) reinvigorate things or (b) capitalise on tiring defences in the last campaign.

Bobby Convey's performance against Italy suggests Doyle could do equally well. Only difference is that Convey has been an international for a lot longer.

My only caveat here is that if Stan feels that Doyle is genuinely just a much better player from comparing the two in training then let him make that call.

I'd be very happy if Robbie, Morrisson, Doyle & Elliott are all fully fit in early September.

[Emmet]

Not once did we have a threat from the bench to either (a) reinvigorate things or (b) capitalise on tiring defences in the last campaign.

Yeah ... I can't see the Germans losing too much sleep over the prospect of facing Gary Doherty for the last 15!

Agree about Morrison - his general play can be poor sometimes but he has a knack of scoring important goals.

[4tothefloor]

Which one of the big teams did Israel and Switzerland beat in the last qualifiers?
That wasn't my point. My point is that at least the Swiss/Israelies had a go. Did we have a go at home to France? No. At home to Switzerland? No. Away to Switzerland? Apart from the first 10 minutes, No. We had a go away to France because we were underdogs, even though they virtually fielded their reserve team, and because we had never-seen-before levels of support for an away qualifier that night. We finished 4th in our group and deserved it. We were technically hopeless, uninspiring, tactically clueless and plain boring for the majority of the campaign. In the short while that Staunton has been in charge, he'll be a miracle worker if he can turn all that around.

BTW, IF we scored against Switzerland? And at what point was that going to happen?! Having been at the game I can't recall..... :rolleyes:


The way we played in Paris & the fast moving passing game we played against Faroes 4 days later. Don't laugh: the Faroes game was a classic example of how to go about winning a game against a minnow. Pass the ball quickly & confidently (not like England vs T&T) and the poorer teams can't cope. One subsequent failiing in my opinion was to treat Israel away differently.
Nail on the head. At least someone here knows what they're talking about and not just spewing blind optimism. Its more against the Germans and Czechs that we need to play this type of game, as I said earlier, we need to start producing results in crunch games. That is the way to play, but the question stll remains - Do we have the quality to carry it off? Not in midfield I'm afraid.

[stojkovic]

Realistically the best we can hope for is third place. An improved seeding (3rd) for 2010 and hopefully a favourable draw. By then some of our younger players will have been blooded and hopefully Anthony Stokes will have come through by then.

Alot of the second ranked teams are gank - Ukraine, Sweden, Swiss, Poland etc. The Czechs and French will be in transition. I dont see anything coming thru in the likes of Denmark, Russia, Belgium, Romania etc.

Would be nice to qualify in 2008, we've only qualifed once which is not good enough. We threw it away in 96 and 2000.

[mypost]

at least the Swiss/Israelies had a go.

They didn't have a go at Lansdowne. Switzerland didn't have a go in Paris, and got a point, they had to rely on a late equalizer in the return, a goal which in the end, put us out. Israel didn't have a go against the other three teams either, and were permanently either soaking up pressure, or chasing the game.


BTW, IF we scored against Switzerland? at what point was that going to happen?

Anytime in the 90 minutes. :rolleyes:

[londonirish17]

Well so much for all the Czech-lovers on here . . . they were made to look dog average tonight by Ghana. Anyone else think we can turn them over?

100% sure the team will ! Only have to believe in it. Most of their old players will leave in july so they'll have to start up again.
They didn't impress me anyway so far. Their win against the US was not because they were that superior. They just took the 3 points due to a bad performance by the US on that occasion.
As 4tothefloor said, we need a big result and stop that defensive being attitude. Reckon that a point in Stuttgart or Prague would be great but at home 3 points must be planned !

[colster]

That wasn't my point. My point is that at least the Swiss/Israelies had a go. Did we have a go at home to France? No. At home to Switzerland? No. Away to Switzerland? Apart from the first 10 minutes, No. We had a go away to France because we were underdogs, even though they virtually fielded their reserve team, and because we had never-seen-before levels of support for an away qualifier that night. We finished 4th in our group and deserved it. We were technically hopeless, uninspiring, tactically clueless and plain boring for the majority of the campaign. In the short while that Staunton has been in charge, he'll be a miracle worker if he can turn all that around.

BTW, IF we scored against Switzerland? And at what point was that going to happen?! Having been at the game I can't recall..... :rolleyes:


Nail on the head. At least someone here knows what they're talking about and not just spewing blind optimism. Its more against the Germans and Czechs that we need to play this type of game, as I said earlier, we need to start producing results in crunch games. That is the way to play, but the question stll remains - Do we have the quality to carry it off? Not in midfield I'm afraid.

I think you're right we need to have a go and attack whatever team we play. We don't have the players to play a defensive game. We need to play a high tempo, pressing game. My point about Kavanagh is that he is not very mobile and will be caught out against the likes of the Czechs/Germans. O'Shea is more mobile, better tackler and would be better at winning the ball back when we lose it.

[tetsujin1979]

O'Shea is more mobile, better tackler and would be better at winning the ball back when we lose it.
He has the potential to be all of these things, and more, but as we saw in qualifying he doesn't seem to have the desire or application to be any of them.