Euro 2008/future [Archive] - Page 2

shakermaker1982

19/06/2006, 12:00 PM

I have even started losing faith in O'Shea. I've stuck up for him before on here but his past few performances are not the kind of efforts you want in a ball winning midfield player. Until then we're better off with Kavanagh.... well until one of the youngsters make the grade.

I'd go for Doyle over Morrisson. Don't get me wrong Clinton does try when he puts on the green jersey but he is not consistent enough and Doyle looks like he has more of a presence because of his build and heading ability. Fingers crossed he gets off to a flyer with Reading in the PL.

4tothefloor

19/06/2006, 2:29 PM

They didn't have a go at Lansdowne. Switzerland didn't have a go in Paris, and got a point, they had to rely on a late equalizer in the return, a goal which in the end, put us out. Israel didn't have a go against the other three teams either, and were permanently either soaking up pressure, or chasing the game.
As far as I can remember Shay Given made some outstanding saves, including 2 one-on-ones with Frei, against Switzerland at home. We created nothing. The reason the Swiss and Israelies had to chase some games is because THEY WERE HAVING A GO! But then again you're the same man that thinks Benitez at Liverpool hasn't a clue and you wanted him out last season. YOU haven't a clue my friend. Thats what watching Rovers does to you ;)

mypost

19/06/2006, 3:20 PM

As far as I can remember Shay Given made some outstanding saves, including 2 one-on-ones with Frei, against Switzerland at home. We created nothing.

1. There was 1 one-on-one for Given, one of the few things he had to deal with.

2. Obviously the fact we created nothing, excludes Ian Harte's 1st-minute header wide. :rolleyes: Other than that, there were no chances, and therefore no goals.

The reason the Swiss and Israelies had to chase some games is because THEY WERE HAVING A GO!

Switzerland created 1 chance, Israel created 2 at Lansdowne. If you're having a go, you create 5 per half. Both of them were happy with their point here.

But then again you're the same man that thinks Benitez at Liverpool hasn't a clue and you wanted him out last season.
Wrong and Irrelevant!

Thats what watching Rovers does to you
Rubbish and Irrelevant!!

4tothefloor

21/06/2006, 11:23 AM

So most of the replies think I'm right about us needing to have a go, except you of course mypost. I wonder why that is?

Reality Bites

21/06/2006, 11:36 AM

youngirish

21/06/2006, 12:20 PM

We need a few developments in the team take place for us to reasonably expect to qualify I believe.

1. (Most importantly) We need a decent midfielder (preferrably creative but this is not essential) who can partner Reid to emerge for us at a reasonably early stage of the campaign. O'Shea is not up to it and never has been. It is not impossible to believe that Ireland, Garvan or J O'Brien could fill this role by the beginning of 2007.

2. We need to find a decent central defender from somewhere. Perhaps Cahill from Aston Villa could do the job if he declares for us.

3. We need a decent option at left back. Maybe Finnan is an option there while Carr can play on the right. Once it's not JOS I'll be happy though Harte is hardly a world beater either (though he does weigh in with a few goals).

4. We need two of our strikers out of Doyle, Elliot and Morrision to be performing well next season to give us options in attack with Keane. Perhaps Adam Rooney will be another choice in the later stages of the campaign if he continues to get his game for Stoke next year though only time will tell if this is the case.

I don't think it's impossible to believe that the left back problem and the lack of options is attack could be satisified it's the other two points that I think will cause us the most concern.

Noelys Guitar

21/06/2006, 12:31 PM

If S. Reid could step up one more gear then I believe we can get out of this group. How he performs will be key. I am still not convinced that Germany are a true top team again. A fully primed Ecuador would have scored in the first minute yesterday. And watch them really struggle against the Swedes. The Czechs my bet for the WC look a spent force without Koller or Baros up front. We will need to play EVERY game at a high tempo both home and away. We will not win every game at home. So picking up points on the road will be crucial. We are just about good enough to get a second spot in this group.

Reality Bites

21/06/2006, 12:38 PM

Agree with youngirish John O'Shea is a waste of space and an excuse of player...**** off John and grow a pair of Balls, then and only then should he wear the green shirt!

colster

21/06/2006, 12:46 PM

The relentless optimism of people that post here is heartening but in reality naive and short sighted giving the history of Irish teams playing away from home- make no bones about it, we are going to struggle badly in Slovakia, Czech Republic, Germany, Wales and even on last showing Cyprus...We have no leadership or character on the pitch required for these tests, I fully expect to finish at best third ahead of wales and slovakia, but that in itself is a tough ask!!

I don't know why people are being so pessimistic. I think there are grounds for optimism.
- we only missed out on qualification for the WC even though most of our players did not play to their potential. I think they can and will play better.
- we have a new coach who wants to play a more attacking pressing game. A game we are a lot more suited to.
- we have a good defence, good wingers and good strikers. Central midfield need sorting out but we have options to try there.
- Germany and Czech Republic have not looked too good in this WC. I wouldn't fear them.

tetsujin1979

21/06/2006, 2:30 PM

Germany and Czech Republic have not looked too good in this WC. I wouldn't fear them.
The Czechs have certainly blown hot and cold so far, but Germany are playing attractive, attacking football and look good for at least a quarter final spot. Even Ballack, who previously did not give them much chance, has come out in support of Klinsmann and wants his contract extended

colster

21/06/2006, 2:40 PM

The Czechs have certainly blown hot and cold so far, but Germany are playing attractive, attacking football and look good for at least a quarter final spot. Even Ballack, who previously did not give them much chance, has come out in support of Klinsmann and wants his contract extended

Germany struggled to beat a very ordinary Polish side, conceded 2 goals against Costa Rica and beat Ecuador who rested 5 players. From what I've seen we don't have too much to fear from them.

The Czechs were over run by a tough tackling and aggressive side. They haven't impressed me. I think if we play a high tempo, pressing game with a bit of aggression we will cause them problems. Having said that they will have a lot of retirements after this WC but if they still have to play Poborsky (who looks pedestrian) then the alternatives can't be too great.

I think if we get ourselves right then we can beat them.

TheJamaicanP.M.

21/06/2006, 3:25 PM

I think if we get ourselves right then we can beat them.

Colster, you've hit the nail on the head. If we get ourselves right (and that means passion and the right attitude), then I think we can compete for one of the top places in this group. I don't think either Germany or the Czechs have players that are that much better than our own.

I'm a great believer that, in international football a team can be greater than the sum of its parts. In a similar way, a team is only as good as its weakest player. At the moment, I think we have about 7, maybe 8 players that are up to scratch: Given, Finnan, Dunne, O'Brien, S. Reid, Duff, Keane. I'm hoping Doyle can step up to the plate. After that, its looking like Staunton will be relying on Kilbane, Kavanagh, O'Shea, Carr, etc. Than again, we've often been weak in a couple of positions. As I've said, if we get the attitude right and play with the type of passion you expect from an Irish team, then we're in with a shout.

OwlsFan

21/06/2006, 3:34 PM

Like the Swedes. A few excellent players and the rest so-called journey men. Pride, passion, belief and organisation (plus luck) and you'd be amazed how far you can go.

colster

21/06/2006, 3:49 PM

Colster, you've hit the nail on the head. If we get ourselves right (and that means passion and the right attitude), then I think we can compete for one of the top places in this group. I don't think either Germany or the Czechs have players that are that much better than our own.

I'm a great believer that, in international football a team can be greater than the sum of its parts. In a similar way, a team is only as good as its weakest player. At the moment, I think we have about 7, maybe 8 players that are up to scratch: Given, Finnan, Dunne, O'Brien, S. Reid, Duff, Keane. I'm hoping Doyle can step up to the plate. After that, its looking like Staunton will be relying on Kilbane, Kavanagh, O'Shea, Carr, etc. Than again, we've often been weak in a couple of positions. As I've said, if we get the attitude right and play with the type of passion you expect from an Irish team, then we're in with a shout.

I agree. The 7 or 8 players you mentioned would all get into either of their squads and a lot into their 1st team so why are some many people being pessimistic.
The last manager concentrated too much on the opposition and as a result the team were tentative and played with a certain amount of fear.
I think if we get rid of that fear and play a pressing, attacking style then we will do well.

mypost

22/06/2006, 3:04 AM

why are some many people being pessimistic.

It's the English OTT mentality. We can be World Champions after we win, and can't kick snow off a rope when we don't. :rolleyes:

We've heard it all before, people said we had no chance when we got Belgium and Bulgaria in the qualifiers; and qualified, when we got Spain and Denmark in the qualifiers; and qualified, when we got Holland and Portugal in the qualifiers; and qualified, and when we got Croatia and Yugoslavia in the qualifiers; and came to within a few seconds of qualifying. We are World Champions at talking up the opposition :rolleyes: , and writing our own chances off as a result.

We'll do alright in the coming campaign. Germany and the Czechs will have a WC hangover, we have Croker and a good fixture list up our sleeve, the players will be fired up, and out to prove the doubters wrong...again. :rolleyes: There's no guarantee we'll make it of course, but we'll be in the mix again to go to Austria and Switzerland, and the qualifiers won't be decided until the last weekend of the group at the earliest.

Reality Bites

22/06/2006, 7:26 AM

To the optimistic masses out there of whom it seems are the majority.. Do you really see us getting results away from home in this group?? Is it possible with current team?? What happens to midfield if Stephen (still unproven) Reid gets injured?? Kilbane and O'****e...

No we have got to take those rose-tinted glasses off..:rolleyes:

youngirish

22/06/2006, 9:11 AM

It's the English OTT mentality. We can be World Champions after we win, and can't kick snow off a rope when we don't.
I believe the English mentality is more if we win we are the best team in the world bar none. If we lose it was only a practice/friendly game/it was the ref/it was because of injuries.

We certainly don't have the English mentality. I tend to think we are a bit more objective than them (though sometimes maybe overly pessimistic).

colster

22/06/2006, 10:06 AM

mistergreen

09/07/2006, 1:59 PM

Did anyone watch the game for 3rd Place last night? Ok - 3rd place - who cares. However Germany - both the team and fans - for obvious reasons - really cared. Apart from everything going well off the field, on the field Klinsmann has turned a team - who were given no chance before the tournament - into a well organised, attack minded side with lots of team spirit and with the country behind them. I really - at this point - fear for us in September. Germany have the wind behind them and will be looking for the perfect start to the campaign. Staunton's idea of playing a team with a World Cup hangover could not be further from the reality. I live in Germany and watched the German fans remain in the Stadium for ages for a big party last night - it was really amazing to see.
Ireland under Staunton will have had three matches under their belt by the time of the Germany game. It will be very tough - to get a result in Stuttgart in September!

colster

10/07/2006, 2:37 PM

youngirish

10/07/2006, 5:04 PM

Reminds me a bit of how Croatia played their 3rd/4th playoff in 98. We played them soon after and won 2-0.
Croatia were an ageing team on the slide. Germany are a youthful team on the up. We also played Croatia at home and they had a man sent off.

colster

10/07/2006, 5:40 PM

Croatia were an ageing team on the slide. Germany are a youthful team on the up. We also played Croatia at home and they had a man sent off.

You may be right but teams after a long WC are vulnerable. The hype of the WC euphoria will have died down by the time we play Germany. Their players will be tired and may find it hard to dig as deep as they did in this WC.
In any case there is nothinng to fear from this German side. They are not that good and I think if we get our attitude right and play a high tempo aggressive pressing game we'll get a good result.

pineapple stu

10/07/2006, 6:02 PM

We'll be grand. The last eight World Cups, the team to win the 3rd/4th place play-off has failed to qualify for the European Championships. A recored which stretches back to 1970 when...West Germany were third in the World Cup and went on to win Euro '72...

On a serious note though, I would imagine if we're going to qualify, it'll be the Czechs we'll be finishing ahead of, not the Germans. They're not the Germany of old, but they're still a very handy team.

Closed Account 2

11/07/2006, 11:24 AM

One the one had the Germans did well to get 3rd place in the world cup. But on the other hand you could, taking a game by game analysis, say it was as follows:-

Costa Rica, good win for them, but Costa Rica are not strong, and they conceeded 2 week goals.

Poland, again a win, but only 1-0 and only in the last moments of the game. Poland are not a great team (theyre a well organised average team), and they looked like getting a draw up to when their man was given a red card.

Ecuador, a good win, but both teams were through and Ecuador were not playing their full team.

Sweden, a very good win. The Germans got off to a great start, but you wonder would/could it have been different had Larsson scored or the Swede got sent off early on.

Argentina, a narrow win in a cagey game of few chances, on penalties.

Italy, a fairly good performance against a defensive team, Germany didnt create that many clear cut chances, and the Italians (despite playing most of the match with a lot of men behind the ball) had several decent chances as well as the 2 goals (eg hitting the post).

Portugal, now this would be IMO the big worry. Germany played very well here, and beat a very decent Portuguese side. Although the Portuguese had some key players out or rested (Miguel, Carvalhjo, Figo) this was still a strong German performance esp. in midfield.

So overall I would say we have a chance against them, we just have to play clam football and try and win the midfield battle.

pineapple stu

11/07/2006, 12:35 PM

Poland, again a win, but only 1-0 and only in the last moments of the game.
Germany were all over Poland for most of the match from the highlights I saw (admittedly on Fox...)

shakermaker1982

11/07/2006, 1:11 PM

Germany are a good young side but they will respect us. We need to go out there with the right mentality from the start and go for a win. I'd settle for a draw of course but it's about time we went for the jugular when we travel. For too long we applaud draws as if they were wins and the bloody 1 pint a piece mentality cost us big style in trying to qualify for Germany 2006. Fingers crossed Doyle scores a few in August and goes into the game buzzing. I cannot wait for Stuttgart, I've gotta feeling this new team could shock a few people.

RogerMilla

11/07/2006, 2:01 PM

germany were all over poland alright , boruc made a load of saves before neuville broke the deadlock , the key was the introduction of odonkor , will definitely put in him in my bundesliga fantasy team!

RogerMilla

11/07/2006, 2:04 PM

let's see how we perform agains tthe dutch and if we can carry the positives into september. Have to say our game against the czechs at home is a key game. 0 from that and stuttgart would cast us adrift. A win there would erase any bad result against the germans. And don't even get me started about getting 4 or 6 points from the two games !!

Stuttgart88

11/07/2006, 9:11 PM

Reminds me a bit of how Croatia played their 3rd/4th playoff in 98. We played them soon after and won 2-0.In fact there's an even more recent and arguably more direct precedent. An omen perhaps?

In Euro 2000, Holland, the hosts lost very narrowly to Italy in the SF. They missed two penalties before losing a shoot-out. In the previous round they thumped Yugoslavia so they were obviously a classy side & they had the nation behind them despite having doubts about a rookie manager.

In the final Italy & France drew 1-1 in normal time.

After the tournament, Rijkaard, the gallant hosts' manager, resigned. Maybe Klinsmann will too.

Less than 3 months later an unfancied Irish team went into the lion's den & produced a brave, attacking performance that yielded two goals as good as we've ever scored, only to concede two late goals. Granted, the Dutch had lost key players to injury, but you can argue that we did too. Richard Dunne had only played US Cup for us before. We had nobody fit on the bench. You can also argue that we showed a losing mentality but it's unarguable that the Dutch scored from an error (Harte) and a cruel deflection off Carr.

Going into the game I feared the worst but, as always, in the back of my mind felt anything was possible. Some were predicting a 5-0 defeat at best.

In hindsight, the feelgood factor of Holland's 6-0 (?) thumping of Yugolsalvia in the QF was long forgotten just weeks later.

Maybe we can repeat the trick in Stuttgart?

geysir

12/07/2006, 7:27 AM

After the tournament, Rijkaard, the gallant hosts' manager, resigned. Maybe Klinsmann will too.
Its confirmed, Jurgen will not make a new contract. It can only be a good thing for us. Considering how he was villified and now sanctified by the same sources, I think he has made a very smart move.
BTW how did Germany do in their qual. group after their wc02 exertions?
France struggled badly to qualify out of their Euro group after their WC'98 victory.

Irish_Praha

12/07/2006, 8:33 AM

BTW how did Germany do in their qual. group after their wc02 exertions?
France struggled badly to qualify out of their Euro group after their WC'98 victory.

They qualified in first place but their group was very easy.

Team P W D L GF GA Pts

Germany 8 5 3 0 13 4 18
Scotland 8 4 2 2 12 8 14
Iceland 8 4 1 3 11 9 13
Lithuania 8 3 1 4 7 11 10
Faroe Is 8 0 1 7 7 18 1

They had some poor results including a 0-0 draw with Iceland away, 1-1 draw with Lithuania at home and they beat the Faroes 2-0 away but if I remember correctly they scored those goals in the last 10 mins and the Faroes were unlucky not to score before that.

Anyway they did enough, as usual, and won the group by four points. It would have been a different story if Scotland didn't throw away somany points against the smaller teams (lost 1-0 against Lithuania and drew with the Faroes) or if there had been a team from the top 30 in the group.

Stuttgart88

12/07/2006, 8:40 AM

they beat the Faroes 2-0 away but if I remember correctly they scored those goals in the last 10 minsI think it was later than that - both were in injury time, no? And in the return game the Faroes came a hair's breadth from equalising too!

Irish_Praha

12/07/2006, 8:43 AM

I think it was later than that - both were in injury time, no? And in the return game the Faroes came a hair's breadth from equalising too!

You could be right - I just remember it was very late in the game. Back in a few mins with my Google results -:D

Irish_Praha

12/07/2006, 8:46 AM

Here from eleven-a-side:
http://www.elevenaside.com/euro2004/group5.asp

full details of the qualifiers. So they scored in the 89th min and then again in injury time.

tetsujin1979

12/07/2006, 9:12 AM

dunno how much to read into that, it was a different German side, the majority of the 2002 World Cup side was still in the squad, and went on to play in Portugal. One of the cristicisms levelled at Voller (manager at the time IIRC) was that he didn't bring through any younger players, bar Klose and Schweinsteiger, in preperation for the World Cup, even though he knew most of the team would be too old in 2006. Klinsmann was left to do most of the rebuilding himself, and that was one of the reasons given for their poor results in the run up to the World Cup

geysir

12/07/2006, 1:04 PM

I heard Bobby Robson on the radio the other day, he sounded very rough, his voice more raspy than ever, I hope he lasts out for the campaign.

He was quoted in Monday's Examiner as saying that our main players are Dunne Keane S Reid and O�Shea

“From our point of view, we are going to have certain players in the squad who will have a certain job to do and their application will have to be spot on. Dunne, Keane, Reid, O’Shea, our most prominent players, have to be leaders and get the team going.”
"With defences so tight, to have a player who from 25 yards can have a pot shot and put it in the back of the net, is a must. (Steven) Reid can do that for us.”
“I think we will have to play to our best to give ourselves a chance. We need to know how we are going to play and we need to be able to deal with the very special players who are going to play against us. For example, Ballack"

RogerMilla

12/07/2006, 1:15 PM

good comments from robson
would be great to see steven reid nail down his place in centre mid with some big performances this term.

Stuttgart88

12/07/2006, 1:22 PM

Every quote from Robson indicates O'Shea is one of the foundations on which the team will be built. I suppose we've just got to hope his & Stan's judgment is correct.

I suppose he's about the only candidate we have to do a man-marking role on Ballack or Borowski though.

youngirish

12/07/2006, 5:23 PM

I heard Bobby Robson on the radio the other day, he sounded very rough, his voice more raspy than ever, I hope he lasts out for the campaign.

He was quoted in Monday's Examiner as saying that our main players are Dunne Keane S Reid and O�Shea

�From our point of view, we are going to have certain players in the squad who will have a certain job to do and their application will have to be spot on. Dunne, Keane, Reid, O�Shea, our most prominent players, have to be leaders and get the team going.�
"With defences so tight, to have a player who from 25 yards can have a pot shot and put it in the back of the net, is a must. (Steven) Reid can do that for us.�
�I think we will have to play to our best to give ourselves a chance. We need to know how we are going to play and we need to be able to deal with the very special players who are going to play against us. For example, Ballack"

This is worrying that he would mention Dunne and O'Shea particularly before Given, Duff and Finnan. He mustn't be watching the same players as me.

The future looks less promising than ever if O'Shea is going to be one of our most prominent players.

colster

12/07/2006, 5:47 PM

This is worrying that he would mention Dunne and O'Shea particularly before Given, Duff and Finnan. He mustn't be watching the same players as me.

The future looks less promising than ever if O'Shea is going to be one of our most prominent players.

I think the other 3 are a given i.e. they consitently perform well. I think Robson is correct in naming Dunne, OShea, Reid and Keane. If we are to get through this group these lads have to do the business. By naming them he's applying some pressure.

Paddy Garcia

12/07/2006, 6:51 PM

I think the other 3 are a given i.e. they consitently perform well. I think Robson is correct in naming Dunne, OShea, Reid and Keane. If we are to get through this group these lads have to do the business. By naming them he's applying some pressure.

Totally agree with you, what's more he's right.

RogerMilla

13/07/2006, 10:47 AM

booby robsons experience is going to be hugely beneficial this campaign. l�w certainly doesnt have it, not even bruckner.

eirebhoy

15/07/2006, 11:16 AM

This is worrying that he would mention Dunne and O'Shea particularly before Given, Duff and Finnan. He mustn't be watching the same players as me.

The future looks less promising than ever if O'Shea is going to be one of our most prominent players.
I think Robson is referring more to their position on the field, they form the spine of the team. I don't understand why you mentioned Dunne though. It's absolutely vital that he's a leader at the back for us.

Stuttgart88

19/07/2006, 2:26 PM

It's kind of relevant to the above, but I saw this quote from Bristol City's Luke Wilkshire today. Despite playing in Leage One in England he performed very well in the world Cup.

"Funny as it may seem, I did find it easier playing at a higher
level than I did in League One at times. It is a hard league and the
best way I can put it is that it didn't really suit my style of
play."

It just goes to show that it is possible to get good international results without a team packed full of Premiership stars.

Fubar

08/08/2006, 6:00 PM

IMO our best chance of qualifying is if the players clubs are doing well in the premiership. Look at keane for example he was a fringe player at spurs for most of the last campaign and hence wasnt performing well at international level. Kilbane is the same played well for a while but only while everton were having their good run of games.

Dont think we have a very good chance of qualifying unless our key players have good seasons and stay injury free and cant see us being that lucky.
Think June 2008 is going to be just as crushing as June 2006...