How can the eL survive...

[Pablo]

When a top billing game like Shels V Derry gets less than 1000 through the turnstiles?

Shels must be in trouble if thats all they get.

[lofty9]

More like How do Shelbourne survive? If that match was at the Brandywell last night there would have been in excess of 4,000 people at it.

[Real ale Madrid]

What distractions were there last night? There was nothing else on.

[BohsFans]

When a top billing game like Shels V Derry gets less than 1000 through the turnstiles?

Shels must be in trouble if thats all they get.

They couldn't even produce a programme at the Bohs game, because they owed their printers money.

Probably their biggest attendence of the season and they lost out on that earner.

[Danny]

Tuesday night football, the day after a bank holiday and with very little media exposure doesnt work....

[NY Hoop]

Summer Football does not work too many distractions

Nonsense shels would get the same crowd no matter when it was played. Dont forget crowds are down midweek too.

Summer football has improved European results and overall the crowds have not declined.

KOH

[Poor Student]

Don't worry, the new Super Duper league will fix it all. See, you put the big clubs playing together and you have instantly large gates.:rolleyes:

[BohsFans]

Tuesday night football, the day after a bank holiday and with very little media exposure doesnt work....

Remind me why it was originally was called off again?

Oh yeah because those idiots at Tolka gave a booking to the FAI for an u-17 international. :rolleyes:
They don't even play 90 mins :D

[Dodge]

Nonsense
Really? You think Summer football has worked in terms of crowds? Can't see nay improvement.
Makes it nocer for the hardcore though

[Billy Lord]

Rogue Trader: summer football is the best thing that's happened to Irish football in decades. Are you seriously suggesting that we go back to sheets of rain on freezing cold January evenings? I was in Galway last Friday and it was a great evening for a game; away trips are a joy instead of a chore and I travel much more now than in the past.
If you can't get people out when the weather is good, how are you going to attract them in winter? It's not the weather's fault, it's down to the product and its packaging.

[Roverstillidie]

Really? You think Summer football has worked in terms of crowds? Can't see nay improvement.
Makes it nocer for the hardcore though

to be fair, attendences are up across the board, pats probably being the only exception. and thats more to do with the on the field decline than the summer time.

[Pablo]

i'm genuinely shocked by that attendance. i know the jibes are about Shels having no fans but less that 1000 at a game of that importance defies belief

[Sniffer]

Was at the game, and based on last night's performance, Derr should be given a bye to every cup final, their fans brought a fantastic atmosphere to the game. Was sitting right beside them and they were so loud all the way through that you felt the ground was packed, even though the far side was completely empty.

[wws]

summer football aint working (and i'd wager any money pats have the best crowds in dublin - and even they are pathetic)

check out el weekly
beautiful weather
dreadful attendances

and thats across the board. I suppose I could dabble in some delusion and believe the "attendance" thread on this board - but I dont need to - I can see it with my own eyes.

Reducing the prem to ten teams would kill it stone dead on this evidence

[ColinR]

summer football aint working

winter football was not working either. your memories of winter football are probably clouded by the fact that pats were winning leagues when we last played winter football, but believe below the top, it was not a nice experience.

bad pitches, bad crowds, bad football and bloody freezing weather - how can anybody want to go back to that :confused:

[wws]

i dont think i want to go back to it

its just the present format has not improved attendances
it has a fragmented structure which inhibits the game and doesnt promote it

the problem for me lies when people running the game trot out the line that summer football has led to an increase in attendances - it clearly has done nothing of the sort

[BohsFans]

(and i'd wager any money pats have the best crowds in dublin - and even they are pathetic)


wrong. It's Bohs.

[wws]

you give me certified attendance figures so.

or is this from the official el yip-do-skippedy-do-99-one-hundred-school of counting?

[Poor Student]

Do Pat's still give out official attendance figures at half time?

[NY Hoop]

Yeah lets go back to ****ty weather and our teams getting hammered in europe:rolleyes:

Attendances have not changed significantly since summer football was brought in but the European results have.

Once the facilities are in place at every ground you will have an increase in crowds. How long that will take? Who knows?

But going back to winter football will be the death knell. Only nutters like keely and matthews want it and look at the "football" they produce.


KOH

[chippie0001]

you give me certified attendance figures so.

or is this from the official el yip-do-skippedy-do-99-one-hundred-school of counting?
I post the attendance figures here and they are 100% official. All our tickets are reconciled to cash etc. I can give you the breakdown by the kids, students/adults and members if you want. No idea about your system but our figures here are 100% accurate.

[BohsFans]

I post the attendance figures here and they are 100% official. All our tickets are reconciled to cash etc. I can give you the breakdown by the kids, students/adults and members if you want. No idea about your system but our figures here are 100% accurate.

Why isn't SB sticking them in the programme anymore?

[Raheny Red]

According to Shels web the official attendance was 1800

[Poor Student]

According to Shels web the official attendance was 1800

What should we read into that?:confused:

[Raheny Red]

Well the OP stated that there was less than 1000 so just thought I would correct. However, i felt there was no more than 1300......

[BohsFans]

According to Shels web the official attendance was 1800

more propaganda from Ollie and the boys down in Tolka :rolleyes:

[Mr A]

That's a poor crowd, but is anyone really that surprised?

Attendances around the league overall are fairly awful- and summer football hasn't helped at all. It definately makes away trips and everything more pleasant, but crowds are still woeful and pitches are if anything worse for a large part of the season.

[manic da hoop]

Attendances around the league overall are fairly awful- and summer football hasn't helped at all. It definately makes away trips and everything more pleasant, but crowds are still woeful and pitches are if anything worse for a large part of the season.

Yeah, and they were always absolutely prestine in the olden days in and around January or February, while last night's match would have been a definite sell-out if it were in November:rolleyes:

[Mr A]

Where did I say that pitches were 'prestine'? I just said they weren't any better now.

I also didn't say that last night would have been a sell-out.

I'm not saying we should go back to winter football, just that a lot of the benefits we were told summer football would bring haven't materialised.

[manic da hoop]

The differnce in the playing surfaces is that they actually improve over the course of the season nowadays, as opposed to before when most were in rag order about midway through and would have no opportunity to recover. Attendance are, I believe, better, albeit marginally. The first thing we must all accept is that there is no quick-fix solution to any of this league's problems, the same can be said of the FAI's proposals - nothing happens overnight, so anyone out there expecting a revolution in the development of the game in the immediate aftermath of the switch to summer football needs to cop themselves on.

Patience is a virtue.

[Gareth]

Firstly, last night's game was the first I didn't wear my jacket to. Don't get carried away lads with a title of Summer in "Summer Soccer". I prefer going to games in the "Summer" months cos its that bit brighter, and somewhat drier, but we still get sh1t weather.

As for attendances, Friday night in Dublin is a night when most of the people either head off home to their outside dublin locations, or they go for a pint after work etc. I have seen plenty of supporters have a pint too many and not leave to go to a game. Shels don't have a good support. There is no big surprise there. But plenty of other clubs don't either, or didn't up to recently.

I'm sorry to say but to the majority of people think our league is a novelty at best. Regardless of a good game or not, more people than not still think its not worth 15/16 euro in to see each week. Simple as that. I envy teams that are the only club in town, ie Drogs, Sligo, Cork, Derry, as you can tap an entire city or town, and people automatically will associate the team with the area. Its harder to do when your in a city with 5 or 6 other teams and before people say Dublin has a huge population, a large proportion is made up of people from other counties. Its very hard to change peoples opinions on EL soccer and its even harder to actually get them into the grounds.

[Schumi]

last night's game was the first I didn't wear my jacket to.
You must have been roasting on Friday! :eek:

[Gareth]

I was in France on Friday. My point was one week doesn't make a summer, unless your irish!!! :)

[passerrby]

do the EL have a marketing department and if so what do they do for a living.

[harry crumb]

It was a disappointing crowd for such a lovely evening but the game itself was excellent.

The pitch was in good nick and the players were able to pass.

[Poor Student]

I agree with a lot of what you say Gareth. Personally I don't think the potential is there for the rapid immediate improvement in attendances and public image of the league which Genesis/the new league structure think it can bring. I wouldn't exactly point to the number of clubs in Dublin as a problem though. If people of specific areas could identify as strongly with their local clubs as people do in one club towns like Cork and Derry then there would be more than enough people for the 6 clubs.

[Gareth]

do the EL have a marketing department and if so what do they do for a living.

the EL marketing dept as a whole is grossly underfunded I think and well, to get it in the face of everyone and to really drive the league, you would need a multi million euro campaign and even then you'll have to cross the fingers and say three hail marys!!!

[Gareth]

I agree with a lot of what you say Gareth. Personally I don't think the potential is there for the rapid immediate improvement in attendances and public image of the league which Genesis/the new league structure think it can bring. I wouldn't exactly point to the number of clubs in Dublin as a problem though. If people of specific areas could identify as strongly with their local clubs as people do in one club towns like Cork and Derry then there would be more than enough people for the 6 clubs.

I believe that the 22 clubs need to co-operate together with peak efficiency at the management level rather than the bickering and one upmanship that sometimes occurs. I believe in the league as a whole. Ok, personally I am a huge Shelbourne supporter, but I don't let that stand in the way of looking at other clubs and hoping they progress etc or looking at my own club and looking at the failings. I think that the only real way forward would be for a clubwide co-operation to promote every single aspect of the league.

[Poor Student]

I believe that the 22 clubs need to co-operate together with peak efficiency at the management level rather than the bickering and one upmanship that sometimes occurs. I believe in the league as a whole. Ok, personally I am a huge Shelbourne supporter, but I don't let that stand in the way of looking at other clubs and hoping they progress etc or looking at my own club and looking at the failings. I think that the only real way forward would be for a clubwide co-operation to promote every single aspect of the league.

Gareth, a concerted effort backed by proper marketing funding would be great but you don't need any other strings attached to that.

[Bald Student]

Regardless of a good game or not, more people than not still think its not worth 15/16 euro in to see each week. Simple as that.That's something I hear a lot too. I think 15 euro is a bit steep for a match and puts new people off.

[Mr A]

I think one of the best ways to market the league would be a weekly show with highlights from premier games and goals from every match in the first. At the moment there's no way in hell that this is going to happen- but there's no reason why the clubs couldn't make it a hell of a lot easier for a TV company to decide this is the way to go. If every club paid into a pool every season the league could pay for cameras to be at every ground for every league game. Even eL weekly would be a hell of a lot better with more goals and less waffle. The increased exposure would bring better advertising revenue for the clubs- looking for a sponsor(s) when you're guarenteed to be on TV, even for a few seconds every week, would be a hell of a lot easier.

If done properly it'd pay for itself but it will not, of course, happen. Too many people will feel that their club shouldn't have to pay, or that we should wait for it to be done for us. Even if just the premier clubs did it it'd be a big step forward.

[Gareth]

The risk of lowering it from 15/16 euro is well, gates will still not increase and your cutting your income even more!! A gate of 6 to 7 thousand a week would sustain our clubs and create great atmospheres. Its a shame we cant suppenna people into coming for 2 - 3 months and see how it changes the league :)

[Gareth]

I think one of the best ways to market the league would be a weekly show with highlights from premier games and goals from every match in the first. At the moment there's no way in hell that this is going to happen- but there's no reason why the clubs couldn't make it a hell of a lot easier for a TV company to decide this is the way to go. If every club paid into a pool every season the league could pay for cameras to be at every ground for every league game. Even eL weekly would be a hell of a lot better with more goals and less waffle. The increased exposure would bring better advertising revenue for the clubs- looking for a sponsor(s) when you're guarenteed to be on TV, even for a few seconds every week, would be a hell of a lot easier..

Most clubs have cameras at the game already. I run the Shels effort and the problem is top quality video footage from multiple sources like Sky is needed. A camera at the edge of the pitch is not going to cut the mustard with potential fans!! The gantrys if there are any in most grounds are not good enough, Tolka included. I have had first hand experience of this in a number of grounds now. I have a small media team now for Shels, but we are a season away from producing top quality tv style productions!!! Next season should see us being able to do that, but the effort is immense, and its not cheap!!!

[CollegeTillIDie]

Rogue Trader: summer football is the best thing that's happened to Irish football in decades. Are you seriously suggesting that we go back to sheets of rain on freezing cold January evenings? I was in Galway last Friday and it was a great evening for a game; away trips are a joy instead of a chore and I travel much more now than in the past.
If you can't get people out when the weather is good, how are you going to attract them in winter? It's not the weather's fault, it's down to the product and its packaging.

The season kicks off in March, Rogue Trade when we still have sheets of rain. You can get sheets of rain in this country ANY TIME of the year. Crowds are pathetic on Bank Holiday weekends regardless of the weather anyway. It's always bloody freezing in Dalyer on the Jodi Stand side of the ground so that it doesn't matter what season it is.

It's not purely down to the product and it's packaging , it's down to our pathetic population and their built in inferiority complex.
The EL is not supported because it's Irish therefore it can't be as good as any other League :rolleyes:
and partly because we are a nation of bandwagon jumpers and event junkies and going to games every other week is too much like hard work.

The reason the GAA is successful is because we are the best in the world at it. BOG ALL PEOPLE ELSE WHERE PLAY IT!
Also being a GAA fan involves going to eight games a year tops ( in the Championship of course..., most GAA fans cannot be arsed about their league either)

[thejollyrodger]

If we had modern stadia throughout the league maybe we would see decent crowds turn up

[TonyD]

Not neccesarily Rodger. If that were the case why haven't clubs attendances improved when they've improved their grounds ?(eg Jodi stand in Dalymount, new stand in Tolka, increasing the stand in Richmond etc etc). Most clubs grounds have improved over the last ten years, have most attendances ? I doubt it.

[anto eile]

Not neccesarily Rodger. If that were the case why haven't clubs attendances improved when they've improved their grounds ?(eg Jodi stand in Dalymount, new stand in Tolka, increasing the stand in Richmond etc etc). Most clubs grounds have improved over the last ten years, have most attendances ? I doubt it.
thats an invalid point.
one "decent" stand in an otherwise kip of a ground will do nothing to attract higher attendances.
the new stand in tolka is no use to anyone considering the rest of the ground and facilities are abysmal. try having a ***s in the toilets when the ground is even half full- youl be up to your ankles in urine
the jodi stand is the best stand in the league- decent enough toilets,a few bars etc, but most the facilities under it are years old, they werent redevolped along with the outside of the main stand.
richmond is an absoulte ****ehole.that stand is brutal.no toilets in it. loads of pillars in the way not too mention the other 3 sides of the ground are a disgrace.
we need proper newly built stadia all across the league. not just one or two new half decent stands

[CollegeTillIDie]

Galway United have improved their ground in the 1990's. They get good crowds when their team is doing well. Terryland was a sh1thole until 1992, and they still got good crowds when they were doing well. This Field of Dreams BS is just that. Tolka Park is one of the best grounds in Dublin and relatively nobody goes there despite the success of the team that plays it's home games there... Shelbourne.

[Mr A]

Good stadiums would remove a major obstacle to marketing the league properly and selling it to the people. They won't bring the crowds on their own, but it'll make it a bit easier to get people to come and easier to get them to stay.

They're not the answer to the attendance problems on their own. The biggest problem is the league's image, which is atrocious due to a number of factors, only one of which is stadia.

[Roverstillidie]

i dont think its stadia per say. tolka on the face of it is a fine ground. all seated, good views from most seats.

but as anto-eile says, matters not a damn if you cant take the kid for a **** or get some food. start with the basics