View Full Version : How can the eL survive...
If we had modern stadia throughout the league maybe we would see decent crowds turn up
Have you any basis for this. Apart from "its obvious"... Pretty much every GAA ground bar 1 or 2 is a kip and they're full. Likewise provincial rugby grounds (well decent crowds anyway) Clubs that do well on the field get decent crowds (bar Shels but even they are improving slowly). If UCD v Bray was played in a super-dooper delaney stamped ground you still wouldn't get 1,000 to go see it. The market is just no there for el football. Not while the organisation running idolise the competetion in Britain and spend so much money/energy on the internationla side.
That's something I hear a lot too. I think 15 euro is a bit steep for a match and puts new people off.
The problem is that clubs have a far more realistic view than most fans here. They know the limited potential and probably know that dropping the price by €5 won't bring in enough new fans to cover the lost revenue from the regulars paying €15 (and not every club charges €15 in BTW) I'd also query how many new fans turn up knowing it costs €15 to get in and how many turn up, see €15 and go home but thats a different arguement
manic da hoop
08/06/2006, 9:49 AM
There's **** views from most seats
Agreed. The Drumcondra End stand (which accounts for about 10% of the ground's capacity) has the only cantilevered roof in the place. It's only a matter of chance if you happen to be able see both goals clearly if you're sitting in the Richmond Road Stand.
Let's face facts here: the "rusty barbed wire and muddy banks" image of grounds in this league is the number one in the minds of those that stay away. Granted facilities at most ground have improved a little, they are still well below what can be described a decent - we're talking proper concrete surfaces, not loose hardcore; food-stalls - you should have seen the set-up at Oriel Park a few weeks ago; seats that don't fall apart when someone weighing less than 12 stone sits on them; toilets? - where do I start!?!
Let's start taking a little pride in our surroundings - we look after our homes don'y we? When we have friends over to visit we don't want the place looking like a dump if, for no other reason, if gives others a bad impression of us if we do. So why should we expect the general public to turn up at the Caralisle Grounds or sit in The Jodi or use a portaloo at Richmond Park, pay 15euro and come back again next week? It's not going to happen.
NY Hoop
08/06/2006, 10:10 AM
I think one of the best ways to market the league would be a weekly show with highlights from premier games and goals from every match in the first. At the moment there's no way in hell that this is going to happen- but there's no reason why the clubs couldn't make it a hell of a lot easier for a TV company to decide this is the way to go. If every club paid into a pool every season the league could pay for cameras to be at every ground for every league game. Even eL weekly would be a hell of a lot better with more goals and less waffle. The increased exposure would bring better advertising revenue for the clubs- looking for a sponsor(s) when you're guarenteed to be on TV, even for a few seconds every week, would be a hell of a lot easier.
If done properly it'd pay for itself but it will not, of course, happen. Too many people will feel that their club shouldn't have to pay, or that we should wait for it to be done for us. Even if just the premier clubs did it it'd be a big step forward.
Agree with a decent highlights show but disagree about showing goals from the first division cos the majority of grounds there look awful. Although it was a shame that the Galway goal from our game wasnt shown as it would have looked good considering there was a decent crowd in a good ground.
We need an hour long show at prime time monday that will cover ALL the premier games and will have interviews, competitions, fans view etc etc. Like the Gazzetta show. But the first problem is gantries. Some clubs dont have any at all! And some clubs just videotape from a tripod in the main stand like Waterford and Derry which looks absolutely dire.
But the bottom line is facilities. As someone says they are not gonna pay €15 into a ****hole. (Fair play to Galway as it was only a tenner in last friday). Passed by Athlone's ground last friday and its great to see a new stadium for a league club.
Too often clubs have been guilty of paying players ridiculous money while the ground falls apart. If anything this is why the so called wage cap can be a good thing.
KOH
Billy Lord
08/06/2006, 10:28 AM
As I've said before: would you be more inclined to return to a crap cinema where you saw a good movie, or a nice cinema where the movie happened to be poor?
Facilities are of premium importance, and every EL ground is below standard.
How much money have clubs spent on players over, say, the last ten years? How many extra fans have they, ten years on? At least by investing in infrastructure and long-term stuff (stadia, costumer service, training facilities, quality coaching, youth development, football in the community, marketing) you have a chance of making process.
Paying poor players a grand or two a week doesn't make a professional football club; it just means you're a soft touch for failed pros.
Most Irish people are event snobs who couldn't care less about Irish football, because their heroes are on TV either at home or in the pub, so the odd trip to Lansdowne or Old Trafford suits them just fine.
If we want those people, you're going to have to go out and get them.
I'd suggest that paying players a reasonable, gross wage, paying tax on time and living within your means while making plans for the future (beginning now) would be a start.
manic da hoop
08/06/2006, 10:37 AM
I'd suggest that paying players a reasonable, gross wage, paying tax on time and living within your means while making plans for the future (beginning now) would be a start.
Well the introduction of the 65% wage-cap is a start, yet some people here seem to be opposed to it:rolleyes:
Dodge
08/06/2006, 10:56 AM
Well the introduction of the 65% wage-cap is a start, yet some people here seem to be opposed to it:rolleyes:
In fairness I can't remember anybody being against that. some said it was unworkable but AFAIK nobody was against the principle (not going to check back either - agree they're idiots if they are against it)
relax take a break
the world cup's on
the eircom league will still be there when we get back.....delaneys on holidays
dcfcsteve
08/06/2006, 3:36 PM
Hold on a sec i am not saying we need to play in freezing conditions iwhat i am saying is that there are way more distractions in the Summer than Winter months ! I know in the Winter a long weekend gives way to higher attendances not so in the Middle of Summer. What is correct is that for the hard nose supporters it is better going to see your team on a niice evening but for the supporters you need to go a little extra to attract there are way too much else to do.
It is at best only arguable to say that there are "more distractions in the Summer months". I don't know anyone who sits around idly with nothing to occupy them for 9 months of the year. The only thing that Summer has is the weather and the longest single school break. That only really transpires into a 2 week holiday out of the country. The biggest events/distractions of the year are outside of Summer : cultural and religious events (Halloween, Christmas, New Year, Valentines, Easter), media and sports events (key film releases; English, Scottish and European club football, club rugby, 6 Nations rugby, the all-Ireland Finals) etc etc.
Conversely - even if there was less to do in Winter it'd be easy to argue that people are much less likely to leave the house and sit in an open stadium because of the weather. Hence negating any benefit from avoiding the supposedly all-singing, all-dancing time of year that is Summer.
Six of one......
passerrby
08/06/2006, 4:58 PM
all these things will help and improve the EL but without a real aggressive marketing policy (not a small ad in the star) it will not work ,you only have to look at heniken and guinness to see how proactive they are in the leagues.
anto eile
09/06/2006, 9:47 PM
Tolka Park is one of the best grounds in Dublin and relatively nobody goes there despite the success of the team that plays it's home games there... Shelbourne.
but tolka is still a complete and utter dump
el punter
09/06/2006, 10:55 PM
We need an hour long show at prime time monday that will cover ALL the premier games and will have interviews, competitions, fans view etc etc. Like the Gazzetta show.
....
But the bottom line is facilities. As someone says they are not gonna pay €15 into a ****hole.
I agree with the prime time show - the media creates hype and interest in pretty much everything that grips the public. If EL footy was on the TV and in the papers prominently everyday, then people would be small talking about it, and interest would rise along with attendance figures.
I don't buy in to the facilities bit really. Free face painting for kids and a family atmosphere is something I have championed here before. But in the majority of matches I go to, I don't leave my seat (or terrace position) at any stage of the match or even at half time. I turn up for the game, watch it, and go home. Whether I can get a pint, a hotdog, or anything else is unimportant for me...but maybe I'm in a minority on that one.
FWIW I was at the Shels v Derry game, wearing a t-shirt on a lovely night for football. It was still a little bright as I got on the bus home after the game.
Playing in the summer works, we just need to power of the media to spread the word.
el punter
09/06/2006, 10:59 PM
all these things will help and improve the EL but without a real aggressive marketing policy (not a small ad in the star) it will not work ,you only have to look at heniken and guinness to see how proactive they are in the leagues.
100% agree with that, eircom are a poor sponsor. They are also the worst company in Ireland for customer service in my opinion (I know it's not relevant but I needed to say it following numerous frustrations at their hands).
A sponsor with some get up and go about them, putting the league in to prime time ads and on bus shelters, train stations, billboards etc would make a big difference.
CollegeTillIDie
10/06/2006, 8:37 AM
That's something I hear a lot too. I think 15 euro is a bit steep for a match and puts new people off.
It's not. Going to lower Division games in England is more expensive for one.
You get enough people paying far more than that to go cross-channel to watch games so I don't believe that to be a valid inhibiting factor. Our National inferiority complex about things is seemingly only manifesting itself in the attitude to domestic football these days. I think the main reason is supporting a team every other week or even every week ( home and away) is too much effort a commitment for most people. I am not sure if it is the partners/wives of men who are responsible for this attitude in the case of men not going or not. I don't know the reason. But the cost is not that high.
Perhaps the fact that half the people who work in Dublin these days live within an area that encompasses Gorey Athlone and Dundalk might be a reason. But if that were the only reason, Athlone Town and Dundalk's gates should be up and they are not!
It's not even the cost of 5 pints in a typical Dublin bar, and in the case of us Irish binge drinkers, a football match lasts longer, so is better value for money!
Irish people cram into Lansdowne road & that a complete dump. Its not always about facilities.
Conor H
10/06/2006, 3:42 PM
I've had a quick glance through this thread.
Would i be correct in saying that the attendance for GUFC v Rovers (1122) is on a par or bigger than that of Shels v Derry!!:eek:
Everyone is quick enough to knock UCD and Dublin City for their shocking attendances but it's even more worrying when a top of the table clash in the premier Divison is lower(or slightly higher) than the equivalent fixture in the 1st Divison.
The mind boggles!!??!:confused:
No excuses for Tuesday evening etc.I'm sure Derry had at least 200 there so it's really the Shels fans you'd have to look at,still not good enough.:(
With the merger of the FAIlure & EL, would it be possible for the FAI to somehow corellate access to international tickets with attendance at EL matches.It would work, in my opinion.
DmanDmythDledge
10/06/2006, 6:15 PM
With the merger of the FAIlure & EL, would it be possible for the FAI to somehow corellate access to international tickets with attendance at EL matches.It would work, in my opinion.
Supporter clubs already get tickets from the FAI- I think all of them are for the North Terrace. I doubt the FAI would do anything like you suggested as they were unwilling to give EL clubs a decent allocation of tickets.
el punter
10/06/2006, 8:00 PM
What do you think of this idea to boost attendances?
'The League Supporter's Season Ticket'
Instead of buying a season ticket for your club, you buy a one-off ticket for access to all league matches during the season. This would encourage people in Dublin (particularly) to attend more games as neutral fans - eg a Bohs fan could go to Tolka Park to watch Shels v whoever and get in using his 'League Season Ticket'. You could use your ticket to take in 3 or 4 games some weekends.
It might also encourage more away fans to travel as they would (in a way) be getting in to the game free.
The tickets could be bought through the league, with each supporter declaring who their 'home' club is, so the club can recieve the bulk of the ticket cost. Admittedly this would mean an increase in current season ticket costs, but it would mean no paying for tickets for away games.
Preferential treatment for international tickets for people who bought 'league season tickets' would also be an incentive.
dcfcsteve
11/06/2006, 5:02 AM
Sorry but to say there are less distractions in Winter than Summer is absolute nonsense ! As far the sport you list GAA championships is major issue because a lot of the local stuff is played on a saturday evening. Also Easter is a great weekend for Footy espicially good friday ( Which is in the summer soccer season and so is Halloween) European Clb Football is played midweek so does not effect the Winter footy. I would love a return to the the winter football as it is a period that a football season should take place in this country.
Sorry Rogue trader - but literally nothing you've written above makes sense. Even if it is 5:46am and I'm drunk.....
You say it's nonesense to claim there are less distractions in Winter than Summer - but then you go on to give weird examples that are either none-season specific, or have nothing to do with Summer. So nothing you've said in anyway supports your assertion (and I'm the drunk one....?).
You say GAA Championships are a major issue, because "a lot of the stuff is played on a Saturday evening". Firstly - there are Saturday evenings in every season. Secondly, there are very few EL games on a Saturday evening, regardless of the season - so soccer is hardly a direct competitor in that respect. Thirdly - everyone knows that the crowds at GAA exponentially grow the further a team gets - so even if a soccer game clashed with a medicore early round tie in the GAA championship, the crowd would only waiver by a tiny percent. Though as we've already established, that would be a rare event in-itself anyway.
Then you go on to point out that Easter "is a great weekend for footy, especially good friday" and then tell us that Halloween is also in the Summer soccer season. Not only do you fail to point out what the relevance of this observation is, but you fail to realise the obvious issue that both those periods are also in the Winter football period. So any criticism you have of them re Summer football would be equally applicable to the winter alternative.
You then say that European club football is played midweek, so does not affect the Winter football - a ridiculous assertion, given that Summer football also involves mid-weeks as welll. The gregorian calendar holds firms, regardless of the footballing season. Never-the-less - this has feck all to do with the merits of Winter football over Summer.
You then conclude by making a value judgement re your love of Winter football, and an assertion that that is when football should be played in this country. Apparently....
In summary - it's almost 6am and I'm quite drunk, yet you're still not making any sense. That's worrying.
What do you think of this idea to boost attendances?
'The League Supporter's Season Ticket'
Instead of buying a season ticket for your club, you buy a one-off ticket for access to all league matches during the season.
Rubbish idea, sorry. People won't spend extra money just to have the convenience of not having to pay at the gate at away games.
Forever Dreamin
11/06/2006, 10:38 AM
What do you think of this idea to boost attendances?
'The League Supporter's Season Ticket'
Instead of buying a season ticket for your club, you buy a one-off ticket for access to all league matches during the season. This would encourage people in Dublin (particularly) to attend more games as neutral fans - eg a Bohs fan could go to Tolka Park to watch Shels v whoever and get in using his 'League Season Ticket'. You could use your ticket to take in 3 or 4 games some weekends.
It might also encourage more away fans to travel as they would (in a way) be getting in to the game free.
The tickets could be bought through the league, with each supporter declaring who their 'home' club is, so the club can recieve the bulk of the ticket cost. Admittedly this would mean an increase in current season ticket costs, but it would mean no paying for tickets for away games.
Preferential treatment for international tickets for people who bought 'league season tickets' would also be an incentive.
Personally I think this is an excellent idea, and no need to declare a club. By using a barcoding system the revenue could be split between clubs based on the actual games attended. The ticket could also allow a spouse / chile in at reduced rates etc and be tied into international tickets by way of a small allocation.
If for example 2200 were offered for sale at a cost of €300 with 1 international ticket per home game for the season, paid in addition it would be worth approx €30,000 per club.
micls
11/06/2006, 12:46 PM
Why do you think this top of the table clash only attracted this poor crowd ? Instead of having a sensible chat about this you have done your best to turn it into a slagging match which is sad to be fair.
Because it was a tuesday night and shels always have cr*p crowds. If it hadn't been re-arranged I'm sure Derry would have brought more. Honestly do you think winter football would bring better crowds for shels on a tuesday night?? I guarantee you the crowds would have been smaller and the standard of football worse. At least this way the people who did turn up got to see a good game
Look i will make my point Simple for you because i know the schooling system that you guys have in Britain is not the best,
Grow up
i do not agree with Summer Football because of the distractions that keep people from attending the matches and this is backed up my the reduced attendances we are seeing at games across the league this season. I deal only in facts my friend ;)
There are distractions at all times of the year. Can you show me facts that league attendances overall are down since the change to winter football...since you only deal in facts?
Unless there has been a noticeable drop overall....which there hasn't the improvement in quality of football and results in Europe are surely worth the change?
The Summer weather is having negative effect on league crowds and i believe that the pitches are also taking a knock because the time for growth is in the Summer months and are not getting a chance to be repaired..
This has been debated to death already and majority of fans choose summer football. There are pros & cons for both seasons but i can't how anyone can conclusively say crowds are up or down this summer already.
Longford have lower crowds as playing sh!te football & not winning cups anymore. Finn Harps probably getting low crowds as they are in the 1st division.
Hard pitches can be solved by watering whereas no solution to muddy pitches.
This has been debated to death already and majority of fans choose summer football
Where was this?
I mean Summer football is fine for most of the lads that are on this site because we are all probably decent fans who would go and follow our team no matter what the weather is and i prefer to go and watch Rovers in nice weather but our clubs rely on more than us. The Summer weather is having negative effect on league crowds
Only goes back to 1999-2000 season but
From http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/2000/aveire.htm
Average Attendence:
.................Premier................... First division
1999-2000....1,816.......................not given
2000-2001....1,709.......................not given
2003............2,328.......................not given
2004 ...........1,864 ........................515
2005............1,759 ........................523
Obviously these are not concluisve and can't compare first division to winter football but surely there's not a big enough difference in the average premier attendences to want o go back to playing/supporting in the rain, freezing cold and muddy pitches with worse results in Europe overall??
Form these figures why do you think winter football would draw bigger crowds?
Look at the trend for the last 3 years if you want down down and this years is going to be lower again and i have a very good idea why there was an increase in 2003 !
It has gone down slightly in the last two years but is still around the same mark that it was during winter football.It was decreasing during winter football too before we changed to summer! Why do you think attendences would be higher if there was winter football when they weren't before??
Whatever the pros and cons of the 'new league' hopefully if anything improves it will be the marketing and exposure the EL gets. Because of summer football we now have teams who can compete(to a certain extent) in Europe. The first team that qualify for the group stages will bring a huge amoun of exposure and interest to the EL IMO.
The promise/chance of that happening gives hope that it will increase attendances. I don't see any evidence to suggest attendances would be better overall in winter. At least this way we give ourselves a chance to compete and draw people in Europe and overall we get to see a better standard of football throughout the year.
I know were probably not going to agree on this and that's fair enough but just wanted to give you my opinion on it :)
dcfcsteve
11/06/2006, 11:49 PM
This is a joke surely where do i start you say i am saying one one thing and a few lines later say that i have said the opposite :D First of all the weird examples are mostly yours from your first reply i merley picked you up on them and ran with some basically all i was saying is that Bank Holiday games in the Winter have better attendances than Bank Holidays in the Summer.
Firstly - where is the proof to support this assertion ? Secondly - there are only 2 bank holidays in the year that are not covered by both Winter and Summer football seasons : namely Christmas and New Year (possibly also Paddy's Day, depending on when the league starts). Even if there was proof that Bank holidays were the magic bullet for crowds, they'd only impact at most one or two games a season. I really don't see where you're going with this RT.
Always one of biggest gates of the Year was the Game at home during the Christmas also good Friday which you have in both seasons is a great gate imo, but thats not the point we are not hear to talk about a few days that we play football on.
So why bring it up....?
You are saying that European Football clashes with the Eircom League, you have have not made one point yourself that makes any sense you have to been on the Shorts.
Shorts is a factory in East Belfast. I've never been near the place. I didn't say that European football clashes with the Eircom League. Read what I wrote again - I merely ponted out that the gergorian calendar is the same regardless of the footballing season. As for the rest of your scentence, you're accusing me of not making sense via a scentence that doesn't make any sense....
There are very few Eircom league games on a Saturday evening like Hello what club do i support, what about Harps , Longford, Cobh, Kilkenny. Now we are moving our games to a Friday evening to try it out...
Even from your own list above, only 18% of teams play home games on a Saturday. Statistically at least, that counts as "very few".
but Crowds are down across the league...
Are they ? And if they are, can this be pinned on Summer football ?
There are a numedbr of things that can be said about Summer football : that it appears to be improving European performances, for example, and that it's a more pleasant experience (in terms of weather and day-light) for those who do go. But there is absolutely no clear evidence re the impact of Summer football on attendances. Some clubs are uip, some clubs are down. One or two even shake it all around. The attendance statictics available are often not mutually comparable, robust, comprehensive enough or sufficiently back-dated to provide a clear view of the situation - let alone to enable an accurate conclusion to be drawn. And even if the data was there, it would be too early to draw a firm conclusion anyway.
1,100 or so at Shels and Derry a top of the league match and thats the crowd thats a joke, Why do you think this top of the table clash only attracted this poor crowd ?
Because it was a mid-week re-scheuled game hosted by a team with notoriously poor crowds given their relative success. Or are you suggesting that had it been a cold, wet Tuesday evening in December the full-house signs would've been up...?
Instead of having a sensible chat about this you have done your best to turn it into a slagging match which is sad to be fair.
I am having a sensible debate, and I'm tackling the points you've raised. I apologise if my previous post was arsey - but I did point out that it was very late and I was pished.... :D Nevertheless - you then chose to progress onto a slanging match yourself - without the benefit of alcohol. Touche....
Look i will make my point Simple for you because i know the schooling system that you guys have in Britain is not the best...
Northern Ireland is not, and never has been, part of Britain. There's a beautiful irony in the fact that the angle on which you attempt to tackle my supposed lack of education merely serves to highlight the shortcomings of your own scholastic background.....
i do not agree with Summer Football because of the distractions that keep people from attending the matches and this is backed up my the reduced attendances we are seeing at games across the league this season. I deal only in facts my friend ;)
No you don't. There are not enough facts to even inform a decision on the impact of Summer football on attendances, let alone draw such a clear conclusion. Rather - you're strongly asserting a personal opinion based on the idea that people are at a loose end for 9 months of the year, and tryiong to label it as fact. That is the core of the issue here for me.
Student Mullet
12/06/2006, 12:19 AM
Shorts is a factory in East Belfast. I've never been near the place.For a man who said this in another thread; (http://www.foot.ie/showpost.php?p=483991&postcount=488)
Well done you on spotting what was obviously a typo. No really - well done. 'Let he who is without typo, cast the first stone....' . If only we could all be as type-perfect as you.
you're being a bit harsh on the fella for using a capital 'S' instead of a small one.
mypost
12/06/2006, 2:47 AM
A home game for Shels gets a poor attendance?? No surprise there.
Another part of the crowd problem as I have said circa 200 times before, is kick off times. Cork for example, used to play on Sunday, and visiting fans could travel in no traffic to TC, with the possible exception of Derry's. Now, they're on Friday nights, how do you expect Dublin clubs' fans to go down there? They can only do it if they work and can change shifts. Kids can't travel down because of school, and most workplaces don't offer flexible hours. So you finish work on Friday at 5, with no possibility of making the game. The reverse also applies for Cork fans. Kick off times are all over the shop, with 11 league games taking place over 4 days. Foreigners are shocked when I tell them how disorganised it is. It's obvious therefore, that all NL matches should be on Saturdays at 8-8.30pm, the best time of the week to play for players and spectators. Who plays at that time? Not one single club in the country.
Facilities are woeful in most grounds, it's 4 years since I went to a toilet at an NL ground. There's little point in having decent stands if the rest of the ground looks crap. The Jodi Stand looks great in Dalymount, then you have the deserted Supermarket terrace behind the goal, which is terrible to look at. Ground conditions in the rest of the country are in many cases, much worse than that. If you're a neutral, would you pay €15 every week for the privilege?
Transport links at grounds, are from the flintstone age. There are usually no buses and trains available to return from games, bar local derbies.
Cobh; Drogheda; 30 minute walk from local train station, up a steep hill
Galway; off the track, 30 minute walk from train station
Athlone; 15 minute walk from train station, via cul-de-sac
Waterford; circa 25 minute walk from train station
Dundalk; train station nearby, but no trains available after games.
Cork City; Kilkenny City; Limerick; off the track, taxi required from station
Derry City; Monaghan United; no train access
Finn Harps; no transport
Exceptions are Bray Wanderers, and Kildare County, where public transport is available nearby after games. Clubs may be unable to do much about public infrastructure, but this is another factor that contributes to poor attendances, whether games take place in January or July.
Marketing is non-existent. TV3 show a few games every week, when half the audience is either going to/in bed. They're definitely in bed when it's shown at 5.50am on Tuesday morning! No game has a commentary, but is narrated instead. It's produced to fulfil the contract obligations, not by those with a marketing agenda. When Setanta win the exclusive rights, then we'll get decent coverage, with decent marketing, lots of live games, and a properly produced, glossy programme with commentaries, most likely shown on prime-time on Sundays. But until the end of this season, we have to endure TV3's fifth-rate NL coverage.
It's also clearly obvious that attendances have dropped in the PD now, as a result of UCD and Home Farm in it, and Shamrock Rovers out of it.
dcfcsteve
12/06/2006, 8:55 AM
For a man who said this in another thread; (http://www.foot.ie/showpost.php?p=483991&postcount=488)
you're being a bit harsh on the fella for using a capital 'S' instead of a small one.
Very good SM. :) I've learned so much from you. Sorry I've made you wait so long for this.
Have you anything to add to the debate btw ?
dcfcsteve
12/06/2006, 9:01 AM
Derry City; Monaghan United; no train access
There is train access to Derry. Unfortunately it's the long way round via Belfast from Dublin. The train just isn't viewed as a serious travel option for the vast majority of locations in the North, and quite a few in the south, anyway - so it's not a huge deal. Most visiting fans would probably be on buses or driving even if we had a better train service.
We've got an airport as well, you know..... :D
Poor Student
12/06/2006, 9:04 AM
It's also clearly obvious that attendances have dropped in the PD now, as a result of UCD and Home Farm in it, and Shamrock Rovers out of it.
We've been in the PD for 10 of the last 11 seasons. The only season we weren't there Dublin City were there. We have no lowering impact on the season to season average for a long time.
If I am correct that site has used Pinapple Stu's average attendance thread for the last three seasons. In the first season he wasn't so stringent on the attendances and they were grossly overstated. Before that they've even more innaccurate.
Whatever about attendances debate i think we can say for certian would have no chance progressing in Europe with winter football season. In recent seasons eL sides have proven if have take away advantage that swedes & the like had with summer football we can compete & beat them.
Away supporters have never travelled in enough numbers to justify home teams changing their kick off times to suit them.
Poor Student
12/06/2006, 9:38 AM
Summer football is the leveller in Europe, it doesn't even give us an advantage. Most teams we can come across in the UEFA Cup and a lot in the CL are already in their season. We've seen what happens when a fit team meets an unfit team with Shels v Glens this season.
dcfcsteve
12/06/2006, 2:13 PM
One question have you any Facts these amazing quotes my British Funded Friend ?
That scentence doesn't make any sense
One thing i have said and what ia begaining to understand you dont read what people say I have never said that People are kicking back indoor with nothing to do for 9 months of the year what i am saying is that (Stay with me on this one) :D There are more distractions in the Summer can you tell me there is not ? :D
I will and I have - I don't believe there are more distractions in Sumemr than in Winter. As I stated previously, before you dragged the debate off into wild tangents : firstly, we are not talking about completely different years or anything here. There is a huge overlap between the Winter and Summer domestic footballing seasons. The only unshared time-slot is part of May, all of June/July and part of August. Therefore, criticism of the timing of Summer football IN GENERAL is extremely likely to also be true of Winter football IN GENERAL - as the majority of time-periods are identical. Secondly - there are 2 main differentiators between those months that don't overlap (MJJA) and the rest - and that is weather/day-light and school holidays. There are numerous distractions available outside of the Sumemr months, and I gave a long list of key cultural, religious and sporting events to illustrate this. All you're doing is repeating ad nauseum your belief that there are more distractions in Summer, without giving a single example of any.
Some months of the year are naturally busier than others - e.g. I think it would be safe to say that December is the busiest and most expensive for pretty much everyone, with January one of the quietest. But when you look at seasons as a whole, I just don't accept that any can be highlighted as having significantly more distractions than the others. And certainly not of such significance to deliver a death-blow to the concept of Summer football. The weather in Summer may make people more willing to leave the house, and more visible when they do so, but that doesn't in-itself signify the presence of distractions bar the weather.
You're clinging onto this notion that Summer football is wrong because there are so many distractions, yet you haven't given a single example to support this theory. That's why I can't take your viewpoint seriously.
The second thing is dont twist my words Northern Ireland is Part of the British Education System is funded by the British Government.I am well aware that Northern Ireland is not part of Britain but is part of the United Kingdom !
I didn't twist your words. I'll quote them verbatim for you again : "Look i will make my point Simple for you because i know the schooling system that you guys have in Britain is not the best...". NI is not in Britain, plain and simple. Never has been. If you know this, why did you say it ? Don't blame me for your own fcuk up here kid.
You have no facts of you own just illinformed opinion and the only thing you seem able to reply with is to slander what i have said. Yes it is my opinion very good you are quick ! and i am entitled to it but it is backed up by a fact which is sliding attendances figures over the last two season and if this year has anyway to go by the average attendance with drop again. Now you keep on saying that attendances are rising Where are you getting your information Please ?
Firstly - where exactly did I say that attendances are rising ?
Secondly - where are the stats you mention that back-up your view that attednaces are sliding ? All we have is the attendnaces thread on here -which is facr from scientific/accurate. And it shows a mixed picture at different clubs, and an incredibly small overall change. Regardless - the statistics are not reliable, as they're collected in different ways with different degrees of accuracy. They therefore cannot be relied upon to make categorical points like you're doing.
Maggie wasted a lot on you ?
Keep Rod Stewart songs out of this please.
Personal opinions are fine on internet forums, but it's a different thing when they're being dressed up as clear and incontravertible fact. Stump up hard stats to support what you're saying, or accept that Summer football can't be written off in this way as there simply isn't the robust data to conclude either way.
DmanDmythDledge
12/06/2006, 2:40 PM
It's also clearly obvious that attendances have dropped in the PD now, as a result of UCD and Home Farm in it, and Shamrock Rovers out of it.
Shamrock Rovers and Sligo Rovers have swapped divisions and their average attendences are almost the same. The attendences have dropped over the past few seasons, not just as soon as Shamrock Rovers were relegated.
NY Hoop
12/06/2006, 2:50 PM
Summer football is the leveller in Europe, it doesn't even give us an advantage. Most teams we can come across in the UEFA Cup and a lot in the CL are already in their season. We've seen what happens when a fit team meets an unfit team with Shels v Glens this season.
???
It does give us an advantage. Have you missed the improved results since we moved to summer football??
You must be drinking what rogue is......
KOH
Summer football is the leveller in Europe, it doesn't even give us an advantage. Most teams we can come across in the UEFA Cup and a lot in the CL are already in their season.
Summer football may not give an advantage in many games but it sure as hell removes a massive disadvantage.
I can only speak for my own team but Cork City have gone from losing 3-0 (conceding 2 goals in the last 10 minutes) in Sweden to winning 1-0 & drawing 1-1 out there. We've also gone from losing 2-1 to winning 2-0 in the Baltics. Both these countries have summer leagues.
Europe is not everything to irish sides but is still very important for the development & credability of the top sides & players in the eL.
If Cork City, Derry City & Drogheda United make the 2nd qualifying round together this season will be a first for the league & will be good for positive publicity - RTE ratings for eL euorpean games have been consistently good in the last few years too as neutrals always willing to watch irish representatives.
Poor Student
12/06/2006, 3:31 PM
Summer football may not give an advantage in many games but it sure as hell removes a massive disadvantage.
My point exactly, hence it being the leveller.
NY Hoop did you even read my post?:confused: I was adovcating summer football as helping in Europe. I meant it doesn't give us an advantage over anyone, it just pegs back the disadvantage given that most teams at that stage play summer football too. By removing that we don't remove an advatage, we actually bring back a disadvantage.
manic da hoop
12/06/2006, 3:59 PM
[QUOTE=Poor Student]I was adovcating summer football as helping in Europe. I meant it doesn't give us an advantage over anyone, it just pegs back the disadvantage given that most teams at that stage play summer football too. [QUOTE]
Shels ve Glentoran last year, or Split the year before?
Rovers v Odra in 2003?
NY Hoop
12/06/2006, 4:04 PM
Playing summer football means we are at an advantage over countries that play the winter season in European competition.
KOH
monkey magic
12/06/2006, 4:07 PM
Shamrock Rovers and Sligo Rovers have swapped divisions and their average attendences are almost the same. The attendences have dropped over the past few seasons, not just as soon as Shamrock Rovers were relegated.
a lot of the drop over the last few seasons can be pinned on the league not having a strong rovers, pats or boez, so in a way he is kinda right, attendance wise, the league does need these three teams competing for honours, and theres no way you can argue that having dub city, ucd or even ourselves in the prem does anything for attendances, that said all three teams are there on merit and thats the way it should stay
aas for summer soccer, of course its made a difference to quality, and consequently, the results in europe, anyone who hasent seen this must be blind, dumb and deaf.
Poor Student
12/06/2006, 6:26 PM
Shels ve Glentoran last year, or Split the year before?
Rovers v Odra in 2003?
Playing summer football means we are at an advantage over countries that play the winter season in European competition.
I mentioned this in my original post.:confused: I said we get an advantage over such teams but more importantly we peg back the disadvantage that summer leagues would hold over us. By dropping summer soccer not only would we lose advantage over winter league teams but go back to being at a disadvantage to summer league teams (of which type of team we are quite likely to draw in the UEFA and somewhat likely to draw in the CL).
mypost
12/06/2006, 7:18 PM
By dropping summer soccer not only would we lose advantage over winter league teams but go back to being at a disadvantage to summer league teams (of which we are quite likely to draw in the UEFA and somewhat likely to draw in the CL).
The teams NL sides played last year; Carmathen, Steaua, Glentoran, Ghent, and Sparta Prague all play winter football. Only 2 of their opponents play in summer.
Poor Student
13/06/2006, 8:35 AM
The teams NL sides played last year; Carmathen, Steaua, Glentoran, Ghent, and Sparta Prague all play winter football. Only 2 of their opponents play in summer.
Would you look at the UEFA seedings for the UEFA Cup this season? Every possible opponent to be drawn plays in a summer league. About half of the CL seeded teams play summer too. Shels opponents in the Inter Toto play summer as well.
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