England World Cup discussion

[Roadend]

England will be hard to score against & I'd always bet on them to get a goal.


You know I thought that too, but after these last two games I'm beginning to think a decent team could put 2/3 past them. T+T yesterday had 2/3 counterattacking moves in the 2nd half but due to the fact that one man was trying to do it all with no support coupled with a touch to much being taken, they got back to defend. A better team will definitely punish them.

[shakermaker1982]

I think their defence will concede goals against the top sides. They often switch off (Cole, Neville and Ferdinand being the worst culprits). Terry lacks pace and their GK is suspect as well. Italy on the otherhand........now that is what I call a defence.

[drinkfeckarse]

I know it was a bad performance......but that just made the celebrations so much better........had an amazing time about 5 of us drapped in England flags singing down the street with someone on my shoulders and everyone beeping their horn at us......brilliant :D :D

I know you live in England Liam but are you not Irish??

[liam88]

I know you live in England Liam but are you not Irish??

Indeed-I am half Irish half Burmese. My reasons for supporting England are:

-Neither Ireland or Burma (or the Vatican!) have qualified (I wouldn't actually support the Burmese team as things stand but that is for another thread....)

-I have grown up in England, I live here, most of my friends are English and my girlfriend is English

-Perhaps most importantly: England gave a home to my family when they escaped from Burma. It wasn't easy but they were able to make themselves in England and for that we've got to be greatful to the country.

So yea, I'm proud to be half Irish half Burmese, I'd never hide the fact I don't have a drop of English blood in me and I'm proud of my countries but I feel its only right to support the coutnry I live in and that has given so much to my family.

That said when Ireland do qualify they are the team I follow with a passion and if Ireland palyed England I'd be cheering on Ireland louder than anyone/

[eirebhoy]

I know it was a bad performance......but that just made the celebrations so much better........
eh, ok. :o ;)

[liam88]

eh, ok. :o
:D what I mean is if it was a 5-0 walkover your don't quite have the same level of cheering and jumping around as if it's 0-0 till the second half then you get one and then another in inury time to seal it.

Only natural that theres mroe celebrating after winning a fairly contested match than after winning a walkover.

England do need to sort it out for the knock out stages but I reckon they will :)

[drinkfeckarse]

-I have grown up in England, I live here, most of my friends are English and my girlfriend is English

-Perhaps most importantly: England gave a home to my family when they escaped from Burma. It wasn't easy but they were able to make themselves in England and for that we've got to be greatful to the country.




Aye fair enough, was just curious like.

[FarBeag]

I know it was a bad performance......but that just made the celebrations so much better........had an amazing time about 5 of us drapped in England flags singing down the street with someone on my shoulders and everyone beeping their horn at us......brilliant :D :D



Good for you but its better if you keep this type of thing to yourself.;)


They were desperate but as usual pull it out of the bag with a few minutes remaining.It would be a complete injustice to the likes of the Ivory Coast if they make it to the quarters. Watched some of their fans on the iTV news last night chanting 'No surrender to the IRA' How clever.

[liam88]

Fair play drinkfeckarse- aye tis different situation to most :)



Watched some of their fans on the iTV news last night chanting 'No surrender to the IRA' How clever.

I hate that song. But to be fair apart from a bunch a skinheads in pub once I've never heard any of the England fans I know singing it. Most of my mates have never heard it, the ones who have think it's stupid.
It's a far-right/loyalist song not an England song. Seriously from my experience-17 years living in England not many people know that song-to know it you'd have to be into the BNP/loyalist scene. No time at all for people who sing that kind of rubbish.

I'd never sing rule Brittania either.

Some England fans do give the rest a bad name and i'm not trying to justify anything but from living in England most of the people who watch the matches are jsut English people supporting their country.......or Burmese refugees supporting the country they are living in-of which I know a fair few ;)

[cheifo]

Fair play to you Liam88 but I had my head in my hands when Crouch scored.I thought Trinidad lads were heroic.Funny that Crouch pulled yer mans hair while scoring.:eek: My mother was supporting England because shes thinks Beckham has a lovely smile:confused:.Funny watching it with her."Are'nt their uniforms lovely":rolleyes:

[FarBeag]

Some England fans do give the rest a bad name and i'm not trying to justify anything but from living in England most of the people who watch the matches are jsut English people supporting their country.......or Burmese refugees supporting the country they are living in-of which I know a fair few ;)[/QUOTE]


Good on you Liam, hopefully you will be drapped in the Irish colours for Euro2008.

[LeixlipRed]

My mother was supporting England because shes thinks Beckham has a lovely smile:confused:.Funny watching it with her."Are'nt their uniforms lovely"

Classic :D

[liam88]

Good on you Liam, hopefully you will be drapped in the Irish colours for Euro2008.

That I will be buddy :d Should have seen us out the the street after Keane's goal against Germany in 2002! I'll be bringing my tri on holiday with me in September so can go out wearing it when Doyle put us 1-0 up against Germany ;)

[DmanDmythDledge]

Owen, Rooney, Hargreaves to start against Sweden.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2006/teams/england/5092190.stm

[osgood was good]

1. Cole's goal was fantastic.

2. Lampard didn't do much, couple of good shots.

3. Beckham was invisible in the second half and for much of the first.

4. Owen's World Cup over?? Did it ever start??

5. Rooney doesn't like being subbed. Not one bit.

6. Hargreaves was alright, but any player could have done his job tonight.

7. Why did Sven take Walcott??

8. Sol Campbell is well dodgy, and I ain't talking about you know what...

9. Sven is a ****. When Ferdinand was injured he should have moved Carjacker into the middle, Hargreaves to right back and brought on a midfielder either Gerrard or Carrick. Then brought Walcott on for Rooney.

10..1. Joey's goal was fantastic.

2. Lamps didn't do much, couple of good shots.

3. Beckham was invisible in the second half and for much of the first.

4. Owen's World Cup over?? Did it ever start??

5. Rooney doesn't like being subbed. Not one bit.

6. Hargreaves was alright, but any player could have done his job tonight.

7. Why did Sven take Walcott??

8. Sol Campbell is well dodgy, and I ain't talking about you know what...

9. Sven is a ****. When Ferdinand was injured he should have moved Carjacker into the middle, Hargreaves to right back and brought on a midfielder either Gerrard or Carrick. Then brought Walcott on for Rooney.

1. Joey's goal was fantastic.

2. Lamps didn't do much, couple of good shots.

3. Beckham was invisible in the second half and for much of the first.

4. Owen's World Cup over?? Did it ever start??

5. Rooney doesn't like being subbed. Not one bit.

6. Hargreaves was alright, but any player could have done his job tonight.

7. Why did Sven take Walcott??

8. Sol Campbell is well dodgy, and I ain't talking about you know what...

9. Sven is a ****. When Ferdinand was injured he should have moved Carjacker into the middle, Hargreaves to right back and brought on a midfielder either Gerrard or Carrick. Then brought Walcott on for Rooney.

10.Second half England were shocking. Defensively comical and it would have been hard to argue if Sweden had been 2-1 or even 3-1 up before England got another sniff at goal.

11.England's set piece defending was straight out of the pub football manual with so many players not seeming to have a clue whether they should be marking a man or a space - in the end many did neither.


Sven got what he deserved tonight because of his inability to think a game .
If England were in any other group they would be out of the competition by now .

[Reality Bites]

Taking lead early in a game, playing well for early periods, then stranglely surrendering and retreating into own half:confused: Kinda of reminds you of someone else tactics doesn't it:(

[Roadend]

2. Lampard didn't do much, couple of good shots.
.

Shots that sail over the bar from 30+ yards are good now?

[jockser]

Shots that sail over the bar from 30+ yards are good now?20 shots (a game) that sail over the bar :D....god he is useless isnt he! must be so frustrating to play with him

[Pauro 76]

apparantly he's had the most shots for an outfield player in the World cup.. the harder he tries the worse it gets...

[eirebhoy]

6. Hargreaves was alright, but any player could have done his job tonight.

You should tell the others that. Hargreaves put in the same amount of tackles (17) in 1 game than Gerrard and Lampard have in the entire tournament.

[Roadend]

20 shots (a game) that sail over the bar :D....god he is useless isnt he! must be so frustrating to play with him

He's grand when he can take his 20 plus shots a game a Chelsea beacuse he has players to win the ball back and give it to him to have another effort. Alas it doesn't work like this with England.

[CraftyToePoke]

He's grand when he can take his 20 plus shots a game a Chelsea beacuse he has players to win the ball back and give it to him to have another effort. Alas it doesn't work like this with England.

anyone hear the conentators on english tv lastnight speak with great pride of how their frankie had had more shots in the tournament than ANYONE else, completely blinkered it seems to the fact that he hasnt troubled the keeper at any point with all these wonderfull shots:rolleyes:

heh heh, gotta laught at em.

[OwlsFan]

What I found astonishing was the lack of emotion on the English bench when England scored. Sammy Lee celebrated ok but McLaren barely got off his ar*e and just whispered something in Sven's ear, who had managed to stand up but not even smile. Very strange.

Sweden reminded me of us. Two or three excellent players and the rest good professionals who give their all and make it hard to beat them. It shows how far you can get with organisation, grit and determination. They'll give the Germans a run for their money.

Beckam was so anonymous it was unbelievable. Should they not move him in to the middle for the creative spark needed there ? Certainly not the man who destroyed Greece almost single handedly a few years ago.

[Roadend]

Beckham cannot play in the middle, he hasn't the legs nor the ability to.

[OwlsFan]

You're probably right but he certainly hasn't got the legs out wide.

[Roadend]

No he hasn't, but he won't be dropped no matter what happens.

[superfrank]

5. Rooney doesn't like being subbed. Not one bit.
Who does but he was tiring and he's not long back from injury so do you really think, or does he himself, that he would've lasted the whole ninety minutes?

And also people seem to forget that he's still only 20. Of course he's going to sulk. But as a professional he should be mature enough to deal with it.

Threads merged.

[Superhoops]

No he (Beckham) hasn't, but he won't be dropped no matter what happens.
Erikkson's judgement day is almost here. If he is serious about progressing rather than trying to please, media, players, sponsors etc. etc. he has got to pick the best team from the players he has available to do the job, (i.e winning!)

Up front, there is no choice, has to be Crouch and Rooney.

At the back, Ashley Cole is a must, as are Terry and Ferdinand (if he is not fit Campbell). At right back he must make a choice.

His real dilemma is in midfield. Joe Cole is a cert to play on left, he must play Steven Gerrard. If he wants to have any chance of breaking up stronger oppositions midfield play he must play a holding play, Hargreaves (who was excellent in that role last night) or Carrick. This leaves one place for either Beckham or Lampard. Beckham's delivery, especially of dead balls, is second to none, but he does little else. On balance Lampard will contribute more, certainly in work rate if the going gets though, which you expect it to do in the later stages so he would be my choice.

This would leave Beckham out, unless he decided to slot him in at right back. There was some euphoria about Beckham's display at right back when he moved there against T&T, I think I could done as well myself, with all due respect to opposition. He was found wanting last night and certainly was the cause of Sweden's first goal. I think putting Beckham in at right back will only be an option if it meant replacing Carragher, who is a defender but not a natural right back. If Gary Neville is fit, he will play.

Is Sven courageous enough to drop Beckham. If he has any aspirations of winning this thing he must.

[eirebhoy]

On balance Lampard will contribute more, certainly in work rate if the going gets though, which you expect it to do in the later stages so he would be my choice.
When the going gets tough Lampard is off having a cup of tea! ;)

[DmanDmythDledge]

Erikkson's judgement day is almost here. If he is serious about progressing rather than trying to please, media, players, sponsors etc. etc. he has got to pick the best team from the players he has available to do the job, (i.e winning!)

Up front, there is no choice, has to be Crouch and Rooney.
Crouch and Rooney will not work together. England will do one of two things:

A.Pump the long ball up to Crouch. This will not work because Rooney will have dropped deep and he will not be in the areas where Owen would usually be to win the loose balls.

B. Give the ball to Rooney. This is their usual plan and Rooney then terrorises defenses by running towards them. More often the not he either shoots or plays a through ball through to Owen. However the through ball will not work with Crouch as he does not have the pace.

Based on this I think that England have to either start with Walcott or play 4-3-3, with Lennon and Cole supporting Rooney, similar to Chelsea's formation.


At the back, Ashley Cole is a must, as are Terry and Ferdinand (if he is not fit Campbell). At right back he must make a choice.

His real dilemma is in midfield. Joe Cole is a cert to play on left, he must play Steven Gerrard. If he wants to have any chance of breaking up stronger oppositions midfield play he must play a holding play, Hargreaves (who was excellent in that role last night) or Carrick. This leaves one place for either Beckham or Lampard. Beckham's delivery, especially of dead balls, is second to none, but he does little else. On balance Lampard will contribute more, certainly in work rate if the going gets though, which you expect it to do in the later stages so he would be my choice.

This would leave Beckham out, unless he decided to slot him in at right back. There was some euphoria about Beckham's display at right back when he moved there against T&T, I think I could done as well myself, with all due respect to opposition. He was found wanting last night and certainly was the cause of Sweden's first goal. I think putting Beckham in at right back will only be an option if it meant replacing Carragher, who is a defender but not a natural right back. If Gary Neville is fit, he will play.

Is Sven courageous enough to drop Beckham. If he has any aspirations of winning this thing he must.
Would all this nonsense about Beckham ever end. He is an excellent player and just because he is not one of the best players in the world anymore does not mean he is no use now. His performances this season for Real Madrid were excellent- this was in a team that was failing to fire on all cylinders. He is crucial to England. He is a key figure not just because of his dead ball delivery. You think Lampard would be better on the right? He is an over-rated player. Don't get me wrong, he is an excellent player, but he is not fit to clean the boots of Gerrard, Ronaldinho, Riquelme etc. Lampard would be lost on the right wing.

Beckham is England's best option at RM. Lennon's crossing did not cause T&T any problems.

[Superhoops]

.....Based on this I think that England have to either start with Walcott or play 4-3-3, with Lennon and Cole supporting Rooney, similar to Chelsea's formation....
If this was in Sven's mind, why did he not try it last night when Owen got injured? Could have easily been adapted by bringing on Lennon or Walcott when Owen went off.

BTW, think you are wrong about Beckham. He looks great against poor opposition when it does not matter, but in the real important games he goes missing. e.g v Brazil WC 2002 and v Portugal Euro 2004. Did he look like a world class player last night?

[OwlsFan]

He didn't go missing in the game against Greece a few years back which England needed to win if memory serves me correctly to qualify. He put in a fantastic performance that day which contrasts starkly with the recent perfomances.

Nevertheless, they're in the last 16 and must have a good chance against Ecuador to get in to the last 8 and, as they say in football, anything can happen from there.

[Schumi]

Rooney up front on his own with Beckham and Cole pushing on down the wings and Lampard, Gerard and Hargreaves in the middle is what will happen I'd say. I'd have that Lennon chap instead of Beckham as I think he'd be more effective in that role but that won't happen. England's midfield has been poor enough creatively so far so maybe more of them will help. :D Their strikers have only scored one goal (and that should have been a free out too!) so I don't see them losing much by having Rooney on his own.




He didn't go missing in the game against Greece a few years back which England needed to win if memory serves me correctly to qualify. He put in a fantastic performance that day which contrasts starkly with the recent perfomances.
I seem to remember him being awful and then scoring the free kick.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Rooney up front on his own with Beckham and Cole pushing on down the wings and Lampard, Gerard and Hargreaves in the middle is what will happen I'd say. I'd have that Lennon chap instead of Beckham as I think he'd be more effective in that role but that won't happen. England's midfield has been poor enough creatively so far so maybe more of them will help. :D Their strikers have only scored one goal (and that should have been a free out too!) so I don't see them losing much by having Rooney on his own.
The only problem with that is that Cole does not push down the wing- he cuts inside and crowds the midfield, which would be more crowded with five there.

[Superhoops]

He didn't go missing in the game against Greece a few years back which England needed to win if memory serves me correctly to qualify. He put in a fantastic performance that day which contrasts starkly with the recent perfomances..
The 2-2 game at Old Trafford. My memory of that game was that the Greeks dominated the first half and led 1-0 at half-time. Sherringham came on and equalised, then Greece took the lead again. It was only in the last 15 minutes or so that Beckham emerged and scored from a last gasp free kick. Good last quarter for Beckham, but hardly fantastic.

[DmanDmythDledge]

The 2-2 game at Old Trafford. My memory of that game was that the Greeks dominated the first half and led 1-0 at half-time. Sherringham came on and equalised, then Greece took the lead again. It was only in the last 15 minutes or so that Beckham emerged and scored from a last gasp free kick. Goos last quarter for Beckham, but hardly fantastic.
It still proves that Beckham doesn't go missing in big games, which you said he did.

[micls]

It still proves that Beckham doesn't go missing in big games, which you said he did.

i read it as meaning exactly that. Being missing for 3/4's of the game is still going missing. Doesn't exactly show him as world class for England as you were saying

[Roadend]

It still proves that Beckham doesn't go missing in big games, which you said he did.

Hit enough Frees and one will go in, that doesn't mean you're helping your team out. Beckham was largely anonymous that day bar the free, which is all anyone seems to remember of it.

[Superhoops]

It still proves that Beckham doesn't go missing in big games, which you said he did.
Oh, he went missing in that game big time for the first 70/75 minutes and at a time when he was being hailed a world superstar. The point I was making was that he has a tendency not to generally impose himself in big games. In fact he hasn't done so at all in recent games and IMO is being picked on reputation and sentiment rather than on performance. Sure, Beckham has the ability to dominate any game, but it is a long time since (and seldom against top class opposition) he has done so. Yet I suppose if he does f**k all else and scores the winner from a free against Ecuador, his inclusion would be justified.

People used to say the same about Ian Harte! :D

[DmanDmythDledge]

I never said he was world class for England. I said he was good enough and he is their best option on the right.

[Roadend]

I never said he was world class for England. I said he was good enough and he is their best option on the right.

3 games in and one cross from the right has led to a goal, Lennon looked good in the friendlies before this and would probably play had Sven the balls to drop Beckham.

[Schumi]

People used to say the same about Ian Harte! :D
Some still do unfortunately.

[DmanDmythDledge]

3 games in and one cross from the right has led to a goal, Lennon looked good in the friendlies before this and would probably play had Sven the balls to drop Beckham.
Lennon does not have an end product to his run, most of the time, as shown against T&T.

[Superhoops]

3 games in and one cross from the right has led to a goal, Lennon looked good in the friendlies before this and would probably play had Sven the balls to drop Beckham.
Be fair. One free led to a Paraguay own goal in first game, one cross led to a Crouch goal in second game, one 'nap' in third game led to a Sweden goal. Net contribution after three games is one assist! ;) (and in the weakest group)

[DmanDmythDledge]

He set up Gerrard's goal as well. He was named man of the match against T&T. Any game in the WC is a big game, despite the opposition and T&T have proved that they are a good side anyway.

[Roadend]

Proved against T+T, hahahaha, 20 minutes in his first ever world cup match and you've ascertained he has no end product. Well done you.

[OwlsFan]

I must have been on drugs that day because my recollection of his performance is that it was one of the best I had seen for a long time throughout the game. Anyway that's neither here nor there.

I see Owen is gone:

Owen ruled out for several months

Wednesday's scan confirmed the bad news for Owen
Michael Owen is out of the World Cup and flying back to England after rupturing his anterior cruciate knee ligament in the 2-2 draw with Sweden.
A scan on Wednesday confirmed the worst fears about Owen's injury following his dramatic collapse early in the match.

"Obviously it's a massive blow. As soon as it happened I knew I was in trouble," said the 26-year-old striker.

Coach Sven-Goran Eriksson said: "I'm sorry for him. But we have many players who can take that second striker role."

-------------

Not sure about the last sentence, Sven !!

[drinkfeckarse]

That makes it look as if he doesn't give a toss. Expect some stinging words from Owen about Svens tactics and methods once he departs methinks :D

[Roadend]

Newcastle will be thrilled.

[micls]

Coach Sven-Goran Eriksson said: "I'm sorry for him. But we have many players who can take that second striker role."

He trying to convince us or himself??