Barca v Chelsea Round2

[Dodge]

No he wasn't. He first moved to Barcelona when he was 13.

FACT!

[NeilMcD]

So Karlos would you agree then that Messi is a homegrown player for Barcelona.

[klein4]

so Neil would you agree that you lied about when messi started at barcelona in order to lend your point more weight?

[Karlos]

So Karlos would you agree then that Messi is a homegrown player for Barcelona.

I would however I'll leave you lovers to debate the merits of it!!! :D :)

[NeilMcD]

I did not lie. Messi said in an interview that he has been at Barca since the age of 9. He visited the club since that age but he could not sign terms as he was too young.

[Dodge]

You'll need to produce that article Neil

http://www.fcbarcelona.com/eng/noticias/noticias/n05021416.shtml
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/Players/Player=95803/index.html

http://www.google.ie/search?q=messi+%22joined+barcelona%22&hl=en&lr=&start=0&sa=N

[NeilMcD]

It was an interview on one of those Uefa Magazine Champions League shows. He said he visited Barcelona at the age of 9.

[Dodge]

Ah the backtrack begins...

[NeilMcD]

No backtrack at all, I never said he signed for Barca at 9 I said he was at Barca at 9 which is fact.

[Dodge]

klein4 can take over from here...

[Schumi]

He said he visited Barcelona at the age of 9.
Club or city?

[klein4]

I was at barcelona when I was nine,,.,,does that make me their homegrown talent????????

[Karlos]

I was at barcelona when I was nine,,.,,does that make me their homegrown talent????????

no! unless of course you signed a scholar or professional contract in subsequent years and got educated on the game by the coaches of Barcelona? It's plainly obvious that never happened. :D :D :)

[klein4]

ah...as they say in France...those who can,can and those who cant ....teach...

[NeilMcD]

Well if that is a dig against Karlos and his coaching its a pretty bad one. I think anybody who puts as much into the game as the coaches do should be applauded for that.

[NeilMcD]

Also Its pretty obvious what has happened here.

Messi was spotted by Barcelona playing in Argentina at a very young age. He visisted Barcelona as a guest of the club from the age of 9. He kept in contact and was watch and recognised that he had a growth problem. As a result when he signed for the club aged 13/14 he was offered medical help by the club and he and his parents moved to Barcelona where he has been ever since. In footballing terms and in the terms that the origingal point was made in relation to Porto and Villareal having homegrown talent, Messi is a homegrown player. I dont think that it could be argued that Villareal have more of an emphasis on homegrown talent than Barelona do. Barelona have produced many young players throughout the years. The original point I made a long way back was that the majority of netural fans seem to want Barcelona to win the Champions League, I think thats a fair assumption. For those that want the smaller club to go through like Porto and Villareal I would argue that Porto have won more Champions League than Barcelona so the argument of same name on the trophy does not hold up there. In relation to producing homegrown talent I dont think that holds up either.

[Karlos]

ah...as they say in France...those who can,can and those who cant ....teach...

speaking of the French, one of those that 'can't', just guided his side to the quarter finals of the champions league. So there is success in failure. :eek:

[klein4]

Well if that is a dig against Karlos and his coaching its a pretty bad one. I think anybody who puts as much into the game as the coaches do should be applauded for that.

:eek: sounds like you wouldnt mind a bit of "Karlos-coaching" yourself if ya know what I mean ;)
Neil - with regards Messi you were wrong(..possibly telling fibs) . accept it and move on.
Karlos - as a great man once said...."there really aint no success like failure...and failures' no success at all..." Houllier is the perfect example of a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. crap manger - out next round.

[Dodge]

Stop trying to justify tht 9 year old comment Neil. Let it go...

[Poor Student]

Stop the pettiness lads.

[klein4]

what pettiness?
its all good natured banter...(altho neil was wrong:D )

[NeilMcD]

Thank you student. Klein just cant help the personal insults and digs at people. I would rather talk about football to be honest and I admire people who are willing to go out and get coaching badges. I have never met or seen Karlos so I dont know if i would like to get coaching from him but if he could improve my ball playing skills I would not mind.


I was not wrong about Messi, I knew what I was saying when I said about the 9 year old. i saw the interview with him and He said he was at Barcelona at 9 and signed when he was 13. I used the word at rather than signed at 9 as saying signed would have been sloppy and not fact based.


However if you are going to be petty like that Klein and trying to rub people faces in it and have little digs to people while addint nothign to any argument while been on foot.ie rather than stir and make little digs against people with childish sexual innuendos that is your business.

[klein4]

That was one of the funniest posts I have ever read on this forum. :D :D


btw...
the teaching comment was referring to Karlos' comment about my football ability/knowledge or lack thereof....
the childish sexual innuendo(and I am tryin so hard not to refer to your "ball control" comment...damn..just did!) was just refferrin to Karlos' "lovers" comment ealier. people are being pedantic about your 9 year old comment cause you can be a bit pedantic about everything else.lighten up. :)

[NeilMcD]

Let them be pedantic I was right in what I said in that he was at Barceloan when he was 9 fact.

[Poor Student]

That's enough! Stop it. You're both on a final warning.

[Karlos]

Wouldn't worry about it, will all blow over! Rumour has it, the making up is the best part :)

So anyway, I would defiently consider Messi homegrown by Barca in the same way I consider Kanu homegrown by Ajax. If you've largely been invloved in the main development years then its fair to say they are homegrown but their start in the game shouldn't be forgotton about and largely isn't in the modern game. There's been quite a few high profile incidents of payments received by Irish clubs for development work.

[londonirish17]

[QUOTE=NeilMcD]Not if you read the thread Klein. I was responding to London irish who said that Villareal and Porto have more homegrown players or invested in youth development than the likes of Barca have.

Ok, after discussing the matter with friends I have to admit though that Villareal also have quite many "foreigners" in their ranks (at least in the starting 11) which is definitely not the case for Porto.
Benfica on the other hand started their return leg against Liverpool with 7 Brasilians, 1 Frenchman, 3 Portuguese and later on 1 Italian...

[londonirish17]

Ok so define a homegrown player in relation to club football then.

Is David Beckham homegrown for Man Utd as he was born in London

Is Gary Neville homegrown for Man utd as he was born in Bury

You can take this to the nth degree. To me homegrown in the context of producing players is a player that is developed by the club before they are a pro and makes it to the 1st team. Place of birth is not an issue because where do you draw the boundary of the place of birth


Ok, we all know what homegrown means in its strict sense but when it is related to football or other sports in general you can say that if a player went through the youth structure of any particular club for a couple of years (5+) he is a homegrown talent even he was born many miles away or lived many miles away before that.