The Kevin Nolan saga

[Volcán Masaya]

In fairness you can't compare the Tim Cahill situation to Nolan. Cahill was very young (14 or 15) at the time he played for Samoa, (where he just happened to be on holidays iirc). So it would have been a bit unjust to tie him to Samoa for the rest of his life.

As regards players being allowed to play for several countries, Di Stefano played for Argentina, Colombia and Spain. Puskas and couple of other Hungarians also played for Spain. And of course the great Jackie Carey once captain both Irelands (the IFA version and the FAI version) in the same week!!

[Irish Pride]

I expected this reaction from Nolan, It happened before. There were strong calls from the media for Zac Knight to be included into the england squad and he missed out and knight said "i might have to consider my INTERNATIONAL future, apparently i can play for ireland so why not if i cant play for england"

Low and behold he was called up for about 3 international caps which i doubt he will ever add too. So Nolan will either end up winning 1 cap under Sven or end up playing for us. I just want him to say what he wants to do.....either play for us of them. I thought this was all sorted out when he said no thanks last year but guess not.

[tetsujin1979]

In fairness you can't compare the Tim Cahill situation to Nolan. Cahill was very young (14 or 15) at the time he played for Samoa, (where he just happened to be on holidays iirc). So it would have been a bit unjust to tie him to Samoa for the rest of his life.
Not quite right. Cahill was living in London at the time and was approached by Samoa to play for them in an underage tournament. He only took it because his grandmother (who still lived in Samoa) was very ill at the time and by taking their offer he got a free trip to Samoa to see her. This all came out when he looked to change his international allegiance, and Samoa had no objections

[greatbleddyman]

I think the most important criteria is that he has an Irish sounding surname.

[Risteard]

Good article by Vincent Hogan in the Independent on this today.

[paul_oshea]

I think the most important criteria is that he has an Irish sounding surname.

here here, if a dog is born in a stable it doesn't make it a horse!

can you post the vincento hogan piece?

[eirebhoy]

http://www.unison.ie/sportsdesk/stories.php3?ca=12&si=1580178


Ireland should tell Nolan where to go
Tuesday March 14th 2006

IT IS hard not to harbour a faint throb of misgiving as Kevin Nolan mulls over the sustained courtship of Steve Staunton.

Nolan, reputedly, has spoken to the Republic of Ireland manager more than once about the possibility of declaring for the land of his grandparents. It is a story that carries the whiff of unrequited passion.

Nolan, who played for England in an under-18 European Championship qualifier but could, according to some, follow Tim Cahill's successful challenge to FIFA eligibility rules, is prevaricating on the basis that a better offer might yet materialise from Sven Goran Eriksson.

To be fair, the boy from Toxteth doesn't feign any compelling emotional attachment to the Republic. Actually, playing for England would, unequivocally, be his preference.

Indifference

But, given Eriksson's apparent indifference to his bright form with Bolton, it seems highly unlikely any approach would be forthcoming to Nolan this side of the World Cup. So, does he wait to discover the identity of Eriksson's successor (Sam Allardyce would, clearly, suit him fine)?

Or does he declare himself 'Irish' in time for the May friendly against Chile in Dublin? All indications are that he'll bide his time and take a punt on Uncle Sam.

Now precedent, undeniably, supports Staunton in his efforts to recruit Nolan.

After all, neither John Aldridge nor Ray Houghton had ever even been to Dublin when Jack Charlton called them up for his first game in charge of the Republic, a friendly against Wales, in 1986. Indeed it is said that the greatest concern of both players back then was a fear of getting caught up in 'The Troubles'.

Aldridge was already 28 and admitted at the time that he had just become "tired of waiting to see if England will have a look at me."

It was the persuasion of an Oxford United team-mate, Dave Langan, that convinced the Liverpudlian to avail of the grand-parent rule (his grandmother was from Athlone) and declare for Ireland.

Now there are uncanny echoes of the past as Joey O'Brien, apparently, is working hard on Staunton's behalf in the Bolton dressing-room to persuade another Liverpudlian to turn his back on a gloriously indifferent, England.

Referring to O'Brien's efforts, Nolan has been quoted as saying "I told him it's something I have to think about. I'm fed up talking about England."

He is, indisputably, a decent Premiership player and at 23 could have ten solid years of international football ahead of him.

And perhaps it is nothing more than coincidence that this story (breaking simultaneously in a number of English newspapers on Sunday) coincides with Nolan being voted the Barclay's Premiership Player of the Month for February.

But there is a murmur of canvass about this business that can scarcely encourage Staunton. Short of standing outside Erikkson's home wearing a tee-shirt emblazoned with the words 'PLEASE PICK ME', it is difficult to see what more Nolan can do to catch the England manager's eye.

Staunton is perfectly right to avail of the grand-parent rule just as zealously as his immediate predecessor Brian Kerr - chose to keep it at a distance. And, at least, he has (we trust) stopped short of Charlton's circular to all English clubs in '86, requesting them to put a notice on their boards saying that "if anyone had an Irish mother, father or grandmother, then I would be interested and I would come and see them."

But Stan needs to be wary of becoming the fall-guy in an England World Cup story.

This is not to imply that Nolan is being deliberately mischievous. It is merely to point out that at no stage has he indicated a desire, let alone a compulsion, to play football for the Republic of Ireland. On the contrary, his stated wish as an Englishman is to play for England.

Perhaps we should respect that and concentrate on those who see more symbolism in an Irish shirt than a low-watt consolation prize.

Hoganvin2@yahoo.ie

[dr_peepee]

Some papers have questioned why Nolan didn't just take up the option during the recent "window" to throw his lot in with us! A fair point, but I wonder how much Kerrs position as the senior manager may have been a factor in his decision to ignore the oppertunity... Given what happened when he was underage manager.

Personaly, I don't see anything coming of it.

And as much as I generally try to side step the "Plastic Paddy" arguments, this is going on far longer than say Morrisons deliberations, or even Dave Kitsons question, and is getting on my whick a bit.

[Plastic Paddy]

And as much as I generally try to side step the "Plastic Paddy" arguments

I didn't think I was that confrontational... :o :D

:ball: PP

[Fergie's Son]

I still think it's all media hype. I'd be willing to bet a tenner that he's in the next England squad.

[livehead1]

i don't think he will be in the next england squad. Eriksson leaves after the world cup, he doesn't think he is as good as the players in the side at the moment so what does he gain from picking him for one game, nothing. However, i think nolan will wait untill he talks to the next england manager before making his decision, i think thats certain.

[Qwerty]

So what? He was eligible to represent Ireland so what's the problem?
He made the Olympics because he was best of those eligible, what wrong with that?

Actually his horse was :)

You may be over-interpreting "I think Charles was welcomed with open arms and made the Olympics at the expense of a native born Irishman...at least I don't recall any negative media coverage.", this is simply a statement of fact and was made in response to others who gave examples from other countries and sports.

I have no objections to Breens and kilbanes. For the sake of necessity I can live with the Tony Cascarinos ( big fan ) and the Andy Townsends, who put in 100%.

The issue now with a Kevin Nolan call-up is NOT Kevin Nolan, it is Stan and the FAI and whether we should be courting players who obviously would prefer to gain international recognition elsewhere. I think it puts us in an embarrassing position, besides Nolan is an excellent player and will be capped by England, I can think of 20 players who played for England in the last 10 years who weren't half as good.

[livehead1]

Actually his horse was :)

You may be over-interpreting "I think Charles was welcomed with open arms and made the Olympics at the expense of a native born Irishman...at least I don't recall any negative media coverage.", this is simply a statement of fact and was made in response to others who gave examples from other countries and sports.

I have no objections to Breens and kilbanes. For the sake of necessity I can live with the Tony Cascarinos ( big fan ) and the Andy Townsends, who put in 100%.

The issue now with a Kevin Nolan call-up is NOT Kevin Nolan, it is Stan and the FAI and whether we should be courting players who obviously would prefer to gain international recognition elsewhere. I think it puts us in an embarrassing position, besides Nolan is an excellent player and will be capped by England, I can think of 20 players who played for England in the last 10 years who weren't half as good.

i can think of 4 in the england squad who aint as good. crouch, bent, young, hargreaves, nolan is superb and has been for 3years

[dr_peepee]

the next England squad is the world cup squad isn't it?? I don't think they've any more friendlies lind up.

[Qwerty]

Neil Kilkenny is probably the next fella to be harrassed by Stan.

If Jimmy Bullard isn't called up by Germany (chuckle) then I think Stan wouldn't have to press him very hard to play for us, not that he offers us much really and is about as Irish as Chinese take-away, but I would like to Stan get somebody ... he deserves a break.

[Ash]

Sky Sports The Other Day Had A Adticle On Sven And His Date For A B International...goodbye Nolan, Also Arron Lennon (spurs)was Approached By Stan But Declined The Offer

Yep, I think they are planning to play Belarus to give "fringe" players a chance
to show their worth ... or in more apt terms get a few players who probably
arent in with a chance of the World Cup, but are touting themselves for dual
nationallity, to declare for England on the off chance someone else snaps them
up and they do well.

[livehead1]

Yep, I think they are planning to play Belarus to give "fringe" players a chance
to show their worth ... or in more apt terms get a few players who probably
arent in with a chance of the World Cup, but are touting themselves for dual
nationallity, to declare for England on the off chance someone else snaps them
up and they do well.

this gets ever more complicated...would a b international rule someone out from changing nationality????

[Cowboy]

this gets ever more complicated...would a b international rule someone out from changing nationality????

Dont think so as its not a competitive game

[Hither green]

Dont think so as its not a competitive game

It doesn't have to be competitive, a friendly will commit you to a country won't it? I thought U21s were the same, so still haven't quite understood why Nolan is still free to choose.


Yep, I think they are planning to play Belarus to give "fringe" players a chance to show their worth ... or in more apt terms get a few players who probably arent in with a chance of the World Cup, but are touting themselves for dual nationallity, to declare for England on the off chance someone else snaps them up and they do well.

I think you're right. On the eve of a World Cup why else talk about a B-match. They'll not get a chance to go to the World Cup, the current manager is on his way out and they'll have plenty of games and a different manager to impress in the autumn. I imagine a B-game would commit you and that's the only reason for england talking about having one.

Could just as easily push Nolan the other way though. If you've one country begging and pleading with you to join them and another country hasn't shown any interest then reluctantly offers you the chance to play in a B-(not quite good enough for a full)-international.... Remember Chris Sutton a few years ago, they called him up for a B and he told them where to shove it. Not that I want Nolan onboard but that would be very funny :D

[livehead1]

It doesn't have to be competitive, a friendly will commit you to a country won't it? I thought U21s were the same, so still haven't quite understood why Nolan is still free to choose.



he is not free to choose, he played a competative game for england at underage level but fifa said that if we asked there would be a good chance?! lol stupid clowns. But a friendly on the other hand, would not commit you, at underage level. It does at senior level though.

[Cowboy]

But a friendly on the other hand, would not commit you, at underage level. It does at senior level though.


Are you sure about that, I see nothing in the rules that distingusihes between friendlies at different age levels, my understanding is that B internationals and friendlies do not tie you to a particular country at any age level. Paul Butler is a case in point AFAIK he is still eligible to play for wales etc.

[livehead1]

Are you sure about that, I see nothing in the rules that distingusihes between friendlies at different age levels, my understanding is that B internationals and friendlies do not tie you to a particular country at any age level. Paul Butler is a case in point AFAIK he is still eligible to play for wales etc.

No, Butler can't play for Wales unless he receives special dispensation from Fifa. Once you have a full international cap to your name i.e. you play for a nation at senior level in either a friendly or comp. game then thats it.

B games are a different kettle of fish. Like the Scotland future squad, no full caps are given out.

[Cowboy]

Paul Butler seems to think otherwise as often quoted. From Fifas regulations "any player who is qualified to play for more than one national association (i.e. who has dual nationality) will be deemed to have committed himself to one association only when he plays his first international match in an official competition (at any level) for that association."

The important phrase here for my arguement is "in an official competition (at any level) for that association." Why would they use the term competition instead of just first international match?

[Cowboy]

thought this might lighten the discussion :)

"The concept of national team eligibility continues to elude some fans. Take this exchange, for example, on TalkSPORT’s Scottish phone-in when goalkeeper Antii Niemi still played for Hearts (borrowed from Jason Burt’s “The Sweeper” column in The Independent, 1 January 2003):"

“Caller: I'm a Hearts fan and, fair enough, Stephen Pressley gets a game for Scotland but what I can't understand is why [national coach Berti] Vogts never picks Antii Niemi.

“Host (former footballer Arthur Albiston): Eh? Sorry?

“Caller: Why does he never pick Antii Niemi for Scotland?

“Host: It's because he's Finnish.

“Caller: What?

“Host: Antii Niemi is Finnish.

“By now enraged caller: He's not Finnish! He's only 28!”

[Roverstillidie]

if nolan played a b international for the saxons would people on here still call for him to play?
unfortunatley i think so.

[Cowboy]

Perhaps, my own view is that no one who does not consider themselves Irish should play for us, however I do recognise that not everyone shares this view and some would take the ultimately pragnmatic approach that we take whomever qualifies.

[highlight100]

no dis-respect to mr nolan but if he wanted to declare for us he would of a long time ago,do we really need a player playing for us who clearly isn't too bothered...

[livehead1]

if nolan played a b international for the saxons would people on here still call for him to play?
unfortunatley i think so.
i dont think he should be allowed 2 play for us

[NeilMcD]

Nolan said on Sky Sports yesterday that he is not really interested in playing international football and he likes the break in between matches as he relaxes abroad. He believe this break has helped his form this season. He also said numerous times in the interview that Sam Allardyce would be a great manager for "us" when talking about the future England manager.

[livehead1]

Nolan said on Sky Sports yesterday that he is not really interested in playing international football and he likes the break in between matches as he relaxes abroad. He believe this break has helped his form this season. He also said numerous times in the interview that Sam Allardyce would be a great manager for "us" when talking about the future England manager.

nothing new there though really. theres been loadsa stuff coming out of him this season, and he regularly contradicts himself, one week his dream is to play for england, next week he aint too fussed about international football etc

[Stuttgart88]

Nolan Opens Door for an Irish Call Up
by John Thompson, PA Sport

Despite several "come and get me" pleas to England manager Sven Goran Eriksson by Kevin Nolan, Bolton Wanderers' talented midfielder and captain, and calls by his cub manager Sam Allardyce to the same effect, Nolan now appears to be set to make a dramatic U-turn on his decision to reject advances by the FA of Ireland.

Nolan, 24 and born in Liverpool to Irish parents, has played U21 football for England and has repeatedly claimed that his future lies with the English.

However, Nolan is believed to be running out of patience with Eriksson and is said to have agreed to meet Sir Bobby Robson recently. Sources close to Nolan suggest he is prepared to throw his lot in with the Irish if he fails to make selection for England's World Cup squad this summer.

The Irish begin their Euro 2008 campaign away to Germany in September and could greatly use Nolan's talents to replace former captain Roy Keane, who retired from international football in October last year. Ireland, without a domestic league to draw players from, has frequently exploited FIFA's eligibility rules to full effect in the past.

Nolan's first opportunity to link up with his new Irish teammates could be an end of season training camp in Spain, organised by former international Ray Treacy, which precedes a friendly in Dublin against Chile.
/ends
-0- Mar/31/2006 23:10 BST

[Cowboy]

Lord help us, Ray Tracy organising the training camp, hope he brings footballs this time.



Nolan Opens Door for an Irish Call Up
by John Thompson, PA Sport


Nolan's first opportunity to link up with his new Irish teammates could be an end of season training camp in Spain, organised by former international Ray Treacy, which precedes a friendly in Dublin against Chile.
/ends
-0- Mar/31/2006 23:10 BST

[CollegeTillIDie]

:mad:
Nolan Opens Door for an Irish Call Up
by John Thompson, PA Sport
Nolan, 24 and born in Liverpool to Irish parents, has played U21 football for England and has repeatedly claimed that his future lies with the English.

The Irish begin their Euro 2008 campaign away to Germany in September and could greatly use Nolan's talents to replace former captain Roy Keane, who retired from international football in October last year. Ireland, without a domestic league to draw players from, has frequently exploited FIFA's eligibility rules to full effect in the past.


Eh excuse me for speaking up but, I went to a match in Ireland's domestic League last night . Does this journalist know something about the F.A.I.'s plans for the new league? ... i.e. abolish it altogether?

[Cowboy]

:mad:

Eh excuse me for speaking up but, I went to a match in Ireland's domestic League last night . Does this journalist know something about the F.A.I.'s plans for the new league? ... i.e. abolish it altogether?

He obviously does not know his football very well A. Of course we have a league and B. You cant have a national side without a domestic league according to FIFA/UEFA. Maybe he meant to say its not possible to draw players because of the standard which again is wrong.

[Plastic Paddy]

Píss-poor lazy journalism, that's for sure. No excuses. :rolleyes:

Back to topic - since this subject seems to be approaching a conclusion (although I may yet be proven wrong) I have combined all the threads from this forum in which Nolan is the principal subject. Three years and three hundred posts and we're still chasing shadows. I would say "píss or get off the pot" but I'm not sure whether it's us, the fans, or Nolan that I'd say it to. :confused: It all makes for interesting if somewhat frustrating reading.

:ball: PP

[CollegeTillIDie]

Píss-poor lazy journalism, that's for sure. No excuses. :rolleyes:PP

Plasticpaddy to be fair to the English media,The Guardian has a complete roundup of EL results on a Monday as do one or two of the tabloids.

[Plastic Paddy]

Plasticpaddy to be fair to the English media,The Guardian has a complete roundup of EL results on a Monday as do one or two of the tabloids.

Who said anything about the English media CTID? I certainly didn't. In any case PA is a syndicated newswire from which papers with lesser *ahem* production values purchase their articles, which in turn only propagates such untruths. The eL PR machine obviously hasn't reached the ear of John Thompson.

:ball: PP

[Don Vito]

Nolan Opens Door for an Irish Call Up
by John Thompson, PA Sport

...

April fools I presume?

[Stuttgart88]

surely not don vito?

[Plastic Paddy]

Well in that case you caught me hook, line and sinker. :o

:ball: PP

[CollegeTillIDie]

Who said anything about the English media CTID? I certainly didn't. In any case PA is a syndicated newswire from which papers with lesser *ahem* production values purchase their articles, which in turn only propagates such untruths. The eL PR machine obviously hasn't reached the ear of John Thompson.

:ball: PP

Oh he's a brit ... sorry for not highlighting that !:rolleyes:

[Stuttgart88]

Well in that case you caught me hook, line and sinker.
I know :) :) and you weren't alone.

"without its own domestic league" - really lads!

[hamish]

This topic was mentioned by the commentator at the Bolton v Manure game today.
It sticks in my craw TBH to see him openly making Ireland a second choice if Sven doesn't come calling.
Let him fcuk off.:mad:

[FarBeag]

This is really p!ssing me off now.Why can't this imbecile just take a run and jump.One thing for sure if he does get an England call up he wont get many caps unless big Sam takes over.If he does decide to throw his hat in the ring with us i just can't bring myself to support him with his attitude.

[Plastic Paddy]

Oh he's a brit ... sorry for not highlighting that !:rolleyes:

WTF has that got to do with anything CTID? Bad journalism is bad journalism wherever it's from, irrespective of the nationality or persuasion of the journalist. I really don't know what point you're trying to make (or indeed why you're trying to make it). As our friends from the North might say - catch yourself on! :rolleyes:

:ball: PP

[CollegeTillIDie]

WTF has that got to do with anything CTID? Bad journalism is bad journalism wherever it's from, irrespective of the nationality or persuasion of the journalist. I really don't know what point you're trying to make (or indeed why you're trying to make it). As our friends from the North might say - catch yourself on! :rolleyes:

:ball: PP

The point is he is British.,.. therefore he has access to the Guardian... therefore he has no excuse for not knowing we have a domestic League.. do I have to spell everything out ?:confused:

I agree 100% with your point about the Press Association and the lazy media here reproducing wire stories without checking though.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Kevin Nolan reckoned in a much quoted recent interview that the way Ireland played in the recent friendly that, if he declared for us, there's no guarantee he would get a game.....

[Plastic Paddy]

The point is he is British.,.. therefore he has access to the Guardian... therefore he has no excuse for not knowing we have a domestic League.. do I have to spell everything out ?

In this case you do because you haven't stated your point clearly until now, but now you have the confusion is over. And - in any case - this was Stutts on the April Fool wind-up. There's no John Thompson, no PA article and no denial of the existence of the eircom League. :eek: So you and I have been arguing over... nothing. :o

:ball: PP

[geysir]

But you were right PP, it was p1ss poor journalism nevertheless.

[livehead1]

tell me more, does anyone have it or able to post it up here?