The Kevin Nolan saga [Archive] - Page 2

Declan_Michael

21/02/2004, 9:58 PM

Originally posted by lopez
A mate of mine (Milwall fan) speaks fluent Irish as both parents were from Connemara. I was learning myself about twelve years ago and we met this Galway Utd fan from Spiddal in Copenhagen in 92. He was having a right good conversation with him which left me feeling inadequate. I just managed to answer where I was from. :(

Also my cousin was speaking fluent Spanish until he learnt it properly in additional lessons at college for his O and A levels, even though he was born in London of two Spanish parents. And of course you don't need to go to school to learn a language, especially one that you know the basics (KK's parents are apparently Irish speakers). I learnt Spanish from a linguaphone style book/tapes that my parents brought from me at 15, before studying it at uni. Maybe why I was a crap footballer. ;)

Of course Irish can be learnt if you purchase a few study aids or go to night school. I'm presuming Kilbane didn't and since he wouldn't have used it on a daily basis in England fair play to him if he's fluent.

Spanish is totally different scenario since it's taught in most schools in Britain and is an international language. Don't want to open a can of worms about Irish being perceived as a 'dead' language though :D

sylvo

22/02/2004, 11:09 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Declan_Michael
[B]Are you sure Kevin Kilbane can speak fluent Irish? As far as I am aware he was born and raised in England. They certainly don't teach Gaelic in English schools. Unless his parents kept him in at night when he should have been playing football with his mates!

I know quite a few people that learnt Irish over here. My perant's and family friend's even tried to teach me word's and sentance's, i'll definitely have to do it properly and go to Irish classes on day, work and football just keep getting in the way.:(

Beavis

22/02/2004, 12:47 PM

The irish schooling system causes kids to reject irish before they've even considered whether they might actually like to learn it.They can't stand it and grow up seared with the idea of it being a chore.By the time I was old enough to realise I did want to be capable in my native language,it was too late.:(

I keep telling myself right I'm going to sign up for the irish classes in college but then put it off until the next semester.It's difficult to motivate yourself to learn a language you may never use.:(

I presume yous'll have to start from scratch.That's tough.My advice would be to aim just to be able to say some basics.If you aim to be able to freely converse,the chances are you'll soon become despondent and will end up dropping it as quickly as you've started.

lopez

22/02/2004, 3:18 PM

Originally posted by Declan_Michael
Of course Irish can be learnt if you purchase a few study aids or go to night school. I'm presuming Kilbane didn't and since he wouldn't have used it on a daily basis in England fair play to him if he's fluent.

Spanish is totally different scenario since it's taught in most schools in Britain and is an international language. Don't want to open a can of worms about Irish being perceived as a 'dead' language though :D
KK could have been speaking a form of 'pidgin Irish - bit like Gazza or Becks with English. :D We were talking about Catalan and Galician on another thread. Both had the literature side of things seriously curtailed during Fat Frank's reign which led to a population in both areas (where the majority spoke some form of the minority language) illiterate in these languages while often having them as their first language.

Originally posted by Beavis
The irish schooling system causes kids to reject irish before they've even considered whether they might actually like to learn it.They can't stand it and grow up seared with the idea of it being a chore.By the time I was old enough to realise I did want to be capable in my native language,it was too late.:(
I've heard that before from my dad (who can't say good morning in Irish and absolutely hated it at school) and the wife's step dad (fluent Irish speaker) in the Cork Gaeltacht. I suggested that perhaps the biggest mistake was having RTE TV in English, but the wife's step-dad thought that was the wrong step (my argument was based on Hebrew and its renaissance in Is...Zionist occupied Palestine ;) , where most immigrants only knew a bit when they arrive). The other thing that we wound him up over was of course was that immigrants into Ireland should get better benefit the more fluent they were.:D

The crux is the opportunity to speak it. If I could speak the language as much as I can Spanish (I know some Columbians at the kids' schools) I would have no trouble learning it.

London Irish

22/02/2004, 6:12 PM

Originally posted by Declan_Michael
Are you sure Kevin Kilbane can speak fluent Irish? As far as I am aware he was born and raised in England. They certainly don't teach Gaelic in English schools. Unless his parents kept him in at night when he should have been playing football with his mates! :D ��KK�s dad is from Achill Island (like my Mum) and parts of it are gaeltacht areas. Notice he always sings the national anthem in Gaelic and hats of to him if he is fluent. I know bits and pieces and Dad taught me Amh�n Na bhFiann when I was young, but I sing (very badly - if anyone was in the East Upper on Weds it was me out of tune and with the cockney accent!!) but more from memory than any real fluency�.

��Italian and Polish friends from school are all fluent in their respective parents� languages (strange how the old 2G debate is lost on them but that is another story). In my experience Irish adults normally spoke Irish when they didn�t want kids to hear or used an old fashioned saying��.hence I guess we can all ask the time, say close the door, shut your mouth etc.. in Gaelic

�shame its not spoken wider �..as i get older i feel really should get round to learning some � you can pick up RNG on digital radio and I always enjoy a good listen to that.. �

BTW Thinks it�s really nice touch that players� names are in Gaelic in the programme (if you can get one!!!)

sylvo

24/02/2004, 9:07 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by London Irish
[ I know bits and pieces and Dad taught me Amh�n Na bhFiann when I was young, but I sing (very badly - if anyone was in the East Upper on Weds it was me out of tune and with the cockney accent!!) but more from memory than any real fluency�.

�

Don't worry, i was also in the east stand upper singing the national antham out of tune, you were amongst friend's see yer @ the cezch game.:cool:

Junior

25/02/2004, 8:30 AM

Originally posted by London Irish
��KK�s dad is from Achill Island (like my Mum) and parts of it are gaeltacht areas. Notice he always sings the national anthem in Gaelic and hats of to him if he is fluent. I know bits and pieces and Dad taught me Amh�n Na bhFiann when I was young, but I sing (very badly - if anyone was in the East Upper on Weds it was me out of tune and with the cockney accent!!) but more from memory than any real fluency�.

My mothers from achill Island as well, got a picture with big KK after the Spain game, which my mum insists she wants to send to all the relatives back home!!, she'll not hear a bad word said about him.

I hadn't heard the 14yrs of age story about him before, but fair play at such a young age you nearly always do as the adults say -to know your own mind at that age is more than admirable.

I too would love to be able to speak more gaelic, unfortunately both parents remember very little (apart from close the door, please etc...:p ), so there was very little I could pick up as a child. Apart from Linguaphone kits, books etc.. anyone know of any websites, perhaps with phonetical assistance??

Plastic Paddy

25/02/2004, 9:12 AM

Originally posted by Junior
I too would love to be able to speak more gaelic, unfortunately both parents remember very little (apart from close the door, please etc...:p ), so there was very little I could pick up as a child. Apart from Linguaphone kits, books etc.. anyone know of any websites, perhaps with phonetical assistance??

Junior - this may be of some use to you: http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/

Bringing it all the way back round to the subject of the thread, Sky Sports were reporting yesterday that Kevin Nolan had not yet made up his mind who to represent at international level. He said that he'd be sitting down with Sam Allardyce to discuss his options. That's him definitely playing for England then... :rolleyes:

:) PP

Ozymandias

25/02/2004, 9:15 AM

not neccessarily...Sam has a soft spot for ireland after his time as player manager at Limerick.....we'll wait and see...not sure if Nolan is better than anything we already have but like everything else it might change in time

Junior

25/02/2004, 9:59 AM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
Junior - this may be of some use to you: http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/

:) PP

Cheers PP, looks quite good, will have a proper look at the site when at home.

Jnr

John83

25/02/2004, 3:28 PM

Originally posted by London Irish
[B]��KK�s dad is from Achill Island (like my Mum) and parts of it are gaeltacht areas. Notice he always sings the national anthem in Gaelic and hats of to him if he is fluent.
My German's nearly better than my Irish, but I don't even know the English words to the national anthem. Who learns it in English?

S�C

25/02/2004, 3:46 PM

Originally posted by John83
My German's nearly better than my Irish, but I don't even know the English words to the national anthem. Who learns it in English?

I think Celtic fans sing it in the Saxon tounge.

Junior

25/02/2004, 3:48 PM

The Soldiers Song is sung at Celtic Park, first heard it sung in english myself, at a Wolftones concert

Plastic Paddy

25/02/2004, 4:03 PM

Originally posted by S�C
I think Celtic fans sing it in the Saxon tounge.

That's how I originally learned it. The Irish came much later. From the terraces, I even used to sing along to it in English whilst watching Ireland. Despite occasional abuse (usually friendly enough), I figured that to sing it in English was still better than not singing at all. :)

:D PP

London Irish

25/02/2004, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Junior
My mothers from achill Island as well, got a picture with big KK after the Spain game, which my mum insists she wants to send to all the relatives back home!!, she'll not hear a bad word said about him.

I hadn't heard the 14yrs of age story about him before, but fair play at such a young age you nearly always do as the adults say -to know your own mind at that age is more than admirable.

I too would love to be able to speak more gaelic, unfortunately both parents remember very little (apart from close the door, please etc...:p ), so there was very little I could pick up as a child. Apart from Linguaphone kits, books etc.. anyone know of any websites, perhaps with phonetical assistance??

junior...........

...small world.... have a picture of me+mum+dad+kk hung up in the living room taken in a pub in the sound...Mum adores him - that fine'achill man' she says when he's on the telly!!!!!!!!!!

Junior

26/02/2004, 7:35 AM

Originally posted by London Irish
junior...........

...small world.... have a picture of me+mum+dad+kk hung up in the living room taken in a pub in the sound...Mum adores him - that fine'achill man' she says when he's on the telly!!!!!!!!!!

Aye, Mcloughlins bar just as you enter the Sound, is run by relatives of mine, mum comes from the village of Saula. Kilbane is in actual fact a very very distant relative. My grandmothers maiden name was Kilbane, never had chance to work out the connection yet, I'll need to get on to that, could come in handy for tickets!!!:p :p

lopez

26/02/2004, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by S�C
I think Celtic fans sing it in the Saxon tounge.
And they've got some of the words wrong aswell: eg: adding the bit in about some Polish king with an aversion to contraception.

sylvo

26/02/2004, 11:14 AM

Now now Lopez don't you be slagging off giovanni paulo, that Polish king got me a week off school back in 1982 when he came over to visit the uk, I had a week of playing football and a day of standing outside mrs battenberg's house in the mall waving a vaticano flag, one of the best week's i had, great craic, any chance of him coming back do you know?:D

lopez

26/02/2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by sylvo
Now now Lopez don't you be slagging off giovanni paulo, that Polish king got me a week off school back in 1982 when he came over to visit the uk, I had a week of playing football and a day of standing outside mrs battenberg's house in the mall waving a vaticano flag, one of the best week's i had, great craic, any chance of him coming back do you know?:D
Like fat Frank in his final years, the light's are on but noone is home? Next one is supposed to be the antichrist (according to Bob Jones affiliated cults).

sylvo

27/02/2004, 12:04 AM

Lopez yer writing the poor man off, or as you call him ''the Polish king'' and I think that's bad form. I will alway's be thankfull to that man for that week he got us off school in 1982 when he made his papel visit to Brit--tan (i've been learning patwaa from my Jamaican workmate's;) ).
That week we all spent the week playing football, and flying round the place on our bmx's, as well as the action packed day outside mrs Battenberg's flat's were we spent the day annoying copper's, waving vatican flag's, eating ice cream, mucking about in st james park and me trying to get off with my best mate's sister.
That man's a hero in my book, so just lay off the guy ok.
Anyway if I don't see yer @ the next meeting, i'll hook up with yerself and Kevin Nolan @ Lansdowne on march 31st

lopez

27/02/2004, 9:22 AM

Take your point hombre, but I'm a republican big and small 'r', so don't have much time for any monarch, even if I believe in the big man upstairs and take the port and poppadom on the odd Sunday with Father Wishy Washy.

There was this Austrian woman at Wembley Park Canteen that day who was just about to get off work to see Karol and she had to do another shift. I don't think she ever got over it.

She was cooking the dinner some time after for a train driver who went out. He (Bob) had a distinctive voice and this other driver started doing an impersonation of him slagging off 'dose f*ckin' krauts. Did you see the programme on the U boats last night?' Helga (I think that was her name) said to Bob, 'don't vorry Bob. I'll bring over your dinner.' He turns to everyone: 'I like this. Personal service.' To which Helga threw the dinner over his head. She had a rep. Previously at Baker Street she almost got the sack when her and two West Indian 'ladies' turned the canteen there into something like a Saloon in Dodge City, after a bus driver had the front to complain about the cooking. :D

drummerboy

27/02/2004, 9:27 AM

what are you on man? I want some

sylvo

27/02/2004, 10:00 AM

jESUS Lopez that sound's heavy stuff dude, is everything cool with them all now?:eek:

lopez

27/02/2004, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by drummerboy
what are you on man? I want some
Apologies DB, but I've lapsed into Shop Talk. I work on the London Tubes and the story of King Karol's visit sparked off nostalgia for a particularly hideous and notorious staff canteen cook.

Originally posted by sylvo
jESUS Lopez that sound's heavy stuff dude, is everything cool with them all now?:eek:
God knows what happened to Helga. She left when TrustHouseForte took over the Franchise circa 1991. Her varicose veins didn't look to healthy. :eek: Bob got the sack for sexual harrassment down at Moorgate a couple of years back. He got promoted after walking down the track at Neasden screaming to anyone who'd be ars*d listening that he was going to kill himself. This as you can see is where I'm going wrong in my own futile quest for promotion. :D

Plastic Paddy

27/02/2004, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by lopez
This as you can see is where I'm going wrong in my own futile quest for promotion. :D

You know better than most that London Underground uses Peter's Principle to appoint management; namely, in a hierarchy, individuals rise to the level of their own incompetence. My old boy swore that this was how they appointed to the senior posts... ;)

:D PP

lopez

27/02/2004, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Plastic Paddy
You know better than most that London Underground uses Peter's Principle to appoint management; namely, in a hierarchy, individuals rise to the level of their own incompetence. My old boy swore that this was how they appointed to the senior posts
Tell him it's been taken to a higher level. :D

tiktok

19/03/2004, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by sylvo
[BBut the crazy thing about Kevin Gallen is it's not like he's one of these 2nd gen Irish who are Irish when it suits them but still follow engerluuuund, this guy is totally Irish.[/B]

and now he wants in......
eleven-a-side.com (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/boysingreen/story.asp?newsid=10433)

sylvo

19/03/2004, 10:12 AM

Brian Kerr went over and had a look @ him playing for QPR, where i think a letter just saying f:D :D k off would have been more the answer.

DolansWaistcoat

19/03/2004, 10:37 AM

Lol.Kerr should've told him were to stick his letter.

Leave him rot in division 2 he's nows now he'll never get an international cap so 'The Replubic will do him.

John O'Flynn has a much better chance of playing for Ireland than Gallen now.:)

sylvo

19/03/2004, 8:21 PM

What goes around it seems definitely comes around in his case, he turned his back on his country in order to play for the Scum and now his country nine years later has turned its back on him, it's just a shame that Brian Kerr did give him a polite response when a "Go F**k yourself, Judas" would've been more in order!!!:D

Irish_Praha

26/09/2005, 9:21 PM

Do you think Kerr should try one last time?
I think he's a quality player and his goal on Saturday was a cracker.
I know this reopens a can of worms but I personally think he would be a great addition to the squad. I know he turned down Kerr for the underage team but that was a few years ago and maybe he might be intetrested now. Some will disagree and say we shouldn't accept an English reject. I would agree if he was cr@p like Maken and didn't add anything to the squad but with Roy, Holland and Kavanagh all into their 30 and close to retirement (or in Holland's case slowly disimproving with age) we don't have a hell of a lot of young CMF players with a few years experience at the highest level. So he would be at least as good if not better than what we have now. I'm interested in Ireland doing a well as possible and if a player qualifies for us via the Grandparent/Parent rule and they improve our squad then why not? Even some of the larger countries have one or two players in their starting 11 that weren't born and bred there. Why shouldn't we as a smaller nation do the same? Sure isn't there something like 15 million people with an Irish passport? I have no objections anyway, unless the person is a total w@anker of course :D

Fergie's Son

26/09/2005, 9:41 PM

My understanding is that he can't qualify so it's a moot point.

Plastic Paddy

26/09/2005, 9:47 PM

No, he makes it under the grandparent rule. He has at least two and maybe all four Irish grandparents.

:ball: PP

Qwerty

26/09/2005, 10:13 PM

Would Nolan be a good option for us purely based on talent? Yes.

Will BK call him up? I don't think so based on previous history, there was talk of him being called up a year ago when he was left out of the England Euro 2004 squad.

Do I think he should be called up? No, but that's only my tuppence worth.

tetsujin1979

26/09/2005, 10:20 PM

According to football365 today he's looking to get an England call up so this subject should be dropped
Read it here - http://www.football365.com/news/story_163916.shtml

�anna

27/09/2005, 2:41 AM

No, no and no again. Have people no pride at all? Going begging a fella who is adamant he's not irish to play for ireland. makes me puke

gspain

27/09/2005, 8:09 AM

My understanding is he was ineligible after playing underage for England. He was then available to us under the amnesty last year but Kerr didn't want him. I think the time limit for the amnesty has expired so he is no longer available.

zinedineontour

27/09/2005, 8:11 AM

no chance .. on ability wise yeah but the lad harbours ambitions to play for england and is willing to wait a few years to see if he can get into squad so for me its a non starter.

drinkfeckarse

27/09/2005, 8:20 AM

No, no and no again. Have people no pride at all? Going begging a fella who is adamant he's not irish to play for ireland.

Agree with that, he had his chance and turned us down. I wouldn't give him a second chance to turn us down again and make us look desperate.

Zidane

27/09/2005, 9:33 AM

As far as I know, he had to change allegiance before 31st Dec last year. This is were they introduced a 'window' for people to change if they had played up to U21 football for another country.

I would have liked him to play for Ireland but I wouldnt go begging for him to play. There were indications that he wanted to play for us but that was after being picked by England U21.

End of story as far as I am concerned.

Cosmo

27/09/2005, 9:52 AM

If ye turn down Ireland once, ye don't deserve to be asked again - and if you beg to come back you should be told to f**k off. Simple as that

eirebhoy

27/09/2005, 10:46 AM

As has been mentioned already, Nolan is not eligible. Once you have played for another country at any level you are stuck with them. There was a window for the year of 2004 which allowed players change but thats over.

youngirish

27/09/2005, 12:27 PM

F**k Nolan Joey O'Brien will have his place in the Bolton team by the end of the year anyway. We can call him up.

We are fine for central midfield players coming through anyway with Garvan, Ireland and O'Brien all now starting to make their mark. We don't need any England rejects in that position.

colster

27/09/2005, 12:54 PM

elroy

27/09/2005, 1:08 PM

Ya exactly, Im fairly sure I remember reading something a while back about him turning down playing for Ireland. This is nearly as ludricious as asking Lee Trundle to play for us, Nolan is a good player, no more no less.

I saw Joey OB came on last sat and did well, have seen him mentioned here a good few times but dont know much about him. He obviously has potential, I thought I heard he had declared for the north?? or am I only talkin rubbish? anyone shed some light?

youngirish

27/09/2005, 1:13 PM

He obviously has potential, I thought I heard he had declared for the north?? or am I only talkin rubbish? anyone shed some light?

Maybe he declared for North Dublin select XI but he definitely didn't declare for Northern ireland. He's a Dub and I've seen him a few times now for Bolton and Sheffield Wed last season and he looks potentially excellent. One of the best of our young players IMO.

He also seems to be getting better with every game which is another plus. He's expected to start in Bolton's away game in the UEFA cup on Thursday so you might see more of him then (I think it's on Channel 5 over here in England) though I expect it'll be a very tough game for him and Bolton.

sadloserkid

27/09/2005, 1:17 PM

elroy

27/09/2005, 1:22 PM

Kevin Nolan is a good player who would be good enough for at least a regular bench spot with us had he wanted to play for us before the window closed.

He considers himself more English and wants to play for them as opposed to some country he doesn't identify with. Fair play to him for not just using international football as a career break. I personally wouldn't want any more Morrissons in the team anyway but I think more of Nolan for turning us down than I would have done had he come onboard.

Speaking of which (im not a big fan of Morrison and his big U turn either) but the man is scoring goals for fun at the moment. Considering he is a confidence player, it can only be good news for us with the games coming up.

Cowboy

27/09/2005, 2:32 PM

He considers himself more English and wants to play for them as opposed to some country he doesn't identify with. Fair play to him for not just using international football as a career break.

Rubbish, he was making noises about playing for us when the new rules came into being, said things like "all I can do is play my best and hope mr. kerr calls me". He made a decision to play for eng u21's and that should have been the end of it.