View Full Version : Who should get the Louth franchise?
Student Mullet
26/01/2006, 7:47 AM
Dundalk have the tradition and former glories.
Drogheds are very much the team of the moment. They've just won their first trophy and are on the up.
Drogman.
26/01/2006, 8:05 AM
Dundalk have the tradition and former glories.
Drogheds are very much the team of the moment. They've just won their first trophy and are on the up.
What sort of a fookin question is that?:confused:
Aren't Drogs moving to Meath anyway?
Drogman.
26/01/2006, 8:08 AM
Aren't Drogs moving to Meath anyway?
Nope, we'll still be in Co. Louth, on the northside of the town.
SeanDrog
26/01/2006, 8:10 AM
no there was discussion about a site which would have been in Meath but the new site is in Louth on the northside of the town.
Dundalk and Drogheda both have large populations (officially the 2 largest towns in ireland). They both are soccer towns with long traditions (the orginial Drogheda United was formed in 1919). They they both have good plans for their stadiums.
What fool would even suggest ditching one of the sides for geographical reasons?
So who should get the Dublin franchise or the Cork franchise? I am taking the orginal post as a stirring excerise to try and create a them and us debate with Drogs and Duns.
More to be doing with my day. Cheerio.
Dundalk have the tradition and former glories.
Drogheds are very much the team of the moment. They've just one their first trophy and are on the up.
This thread is a pile of w@nk :rolleyes:
Who should get the dublin B franchise - UCD or Dublin?
Who should get the dublin a franchise? - bohs, rovers, shels or pats?
Who should get the munster franchise?
Who should get the north west franchise?
Not even getting into this debate as its all hearsay :rolleyes:
Poor Student
26/01/2006, 9:01 AM
Ehhhh, I think Mullet's thread is tongue in cheek invoking a bit of thought on the silly way things could be heading in Delaney's alleged plans.
Passive
26/01/2006, 9:12 AM
Why are people talking about franchises? My understanding of this proposal is that it is simply a mechanism to get rid of tax cheats and one man clubs. No one has mentioned there only being one franchise for Louth, two for Dublin etc. If Dundalk and Drogheda both have their houses in order they will both be eligible to get into the league.
Why are people talking about franchises? My understanding of this proposal is that it is simply a mechanism to get rid of tax cheats and one man clubs.
They're talking about unquantifiable measures like marketability, potential etc. If it was purely a properly implemented licencing system (like the one we're already supposed to have) I doubt many would complain.
Jerry The Saint
26/01/2006, 9:26 AM
I am taking the orginal post as a stirring excerise to try and create a them and us debate with Drogs and Duns.
I agree. Student Mullet is clearly trying to damage the spirit of brotherly love that exists between these two friendly neighbours. For shame!
BohDiddley
26/01/2006, 9:29 AM
I agree. Student Mullet is clearly trying to damage the spirit of brotherly love that exists between these two friendly neighbours. For shame!
:D :D :D
Breifne
26/01/2006, 9:41 AM
They're talking about unquantifiable measures like marketability, potential etc. If it was purely a properly implemented licencing system (like the one we're already supposed to have) I doubt many would complain.
It seems like a witch hunt to me, the licensing was supposed to get rid of the smaller clubs, but when they managed to get their house in order, they had to come up with a new scheme to replace that. There is nothing wrong with the licensing scheme. It just needs to be enforced properly. Thats the issue here.
bawn79
26/01/2006, 10:16 AM
I think a merger is the only way to go Drogdalk :) :) :)
Student Mullet
26/01/2006, 11:01 AM
Who should get the dublin B franchise - UCD or Dublin?
Who should get the dublin a franchise? - bohs, rovers, shels or pats?
Who should get the munster franchise?
Who should get the north west franchise?These are all questions which will have to be answered. You can only fit ten teams in a ten team franchise.
Cosmo
26/01/2006, 11:08 AM
These are all questions which will have to be answered. You can only fit ten teams in a ten team franchise.
Yeah and as I said:
'Not even getting into this debate as its all hearsay'
Like does anyone really know what the votes about or its implications? I dont have an opinion either way on how clubs should vote as I dont know all the facts on whats being proposed? All hearsay as far as I can see!! Anyone able to enlighten us, that dont have a clue, with the fatcs on whats being voted on? :confused:
holidaysong
26/01/2006, 11:49 AM
Worst thread ever...
monutdfc
26/01/2006, 12:03 PM
Best thread ever, because it really focusses the mind on what this proposal is about. As Student Mullet says, you can only fit 10 teams into a 10 team franchise. There is no way that 2 of the 10 would be Dundalk and Drogheda. Just as it is very unlikely that all of the Big 4 Dublin Clubs could be included.
About the only dead certs are Cork City and Derry City. Galway United are supporting the proposal because they have been all but promised one pf the 10 spots. That leaves 7 places for the remaining 19 teams.
Even discounting the likes of Cobh Ramblers and Dublin City who haven't a hope on the basis of proximity to 'big' teams (it's all relative) and small clubs such as ourselves, you're stilll left with 2 teams for every 1 remaining spot.
Who will get the midlands franchise, Athlone Town or Longford Town?
BohDiddley
26/01/2006, 12:33 PM
Who said there was going to be a Louth franchise?
If we got rid of Louth, think of all the money we'd save on toll charges! That way, the hordes of new fans that this wondrous plan will magic up will be able to spend more money on merchandise sold by the designated top clubs.
Ca-ching!
pineapple stu
26/01/2006, 12:34 PM
Like does anyone really know what the votes about or its implications? I dont have an opinion either way on how clubs should vote as I dont know all the facts on whats being proposed? All hearsay as far as I can see!! Anyone able to enlighten us, that dont have a clue, with the fatcs on whats being voted on? :confused:
The facts...again...
The FAI want clubs to vote on ending the league and starting a new, invitational, league. Entry to the Premier Division will be based on criteria such as crowds, facilities, marketability, geographical spread etc (source - yer man's article in the Indo). But the catch is that we don't know what the criteria are yet, so the clubs are voting blind. Promotion/relegation would be allowed for the First Division winners, but only if they meet the criteria. But the whole reason they are in the First Division in the first place is because they don't meet the criteria. We all know it's next to impossible to progress in the First Division - certainly to Premier Division standard - therefore, no promotion/relegation and a closed-shop Premier. The lucky clubs will get all the benefits, the unlucky clubs will wither and die.
Thus the issue of Dundalk or Drogheda is an interesting one. Geographical spread (also mentioned in Genesis, incidentally) seems to imply only one Louth team gets in, and the other, by extension, dies. Dundalk have a far better history and have reached levels in the past Drogheda can only dream about (don't let personal rivalry get in the way of this; leading Celtic on away goals for a while to get into the Q/F of the European Cup in front of 12,000 people in Oriel is something Drogs can only dream about for now), so on that basis, they should get in. But an equally good case can be made for Drogs - they're the team of the moment, the ones moving forward, etc., etc. How can you choose?
This is not hearsay, rumour or conjecture. THis is what the clubs are being asked to vote on.
Cosmo
26/01/2006, 12:57 PM
But the catch is that we don't know what the criteria are yet.
Thats what I was thinking - so its all hearsay as nobody knows what the story will be
Bald Student
26/01/2006, 1:01 PM
I think that's the problem Cosmo. The club chairmen are being asked to vote on something without knowing what it is they're voting for.
Dundalk just back from the hospital there very efficent so they go my vote :D
pineapple stu
26/01/2006, 1:07 PM
Thats what I was thinking - so its all hearsay as nobody knows what the story will be
But that's just a technicality - it doesn't alter the fact that the FAI are going to hand pick the clubs for the Premier based on non-sporting criteria. So the question remains - which one should you choose, given that the other will die?
NY Hoop
26/01/2006, 1:13 PM
For the record Dundalk were never leading Celtic in that EC tie. They had lost away 3-2 and the game in Oriel finished scoreless although apparently Dundalk missed a sitter.
Anyway all this talk of franchises is b0llox. While we all acknowledge that change is needed this is just a proposal. Just because it's the indo doesnt mean its fact. Maybe the FAI are leaking bits and pieces to gauge the public view. Who knows?
Have the clubs been contacted OFFICIALLY on any of this yet?
KOH
BohDiddley
26/01/2006, 1:18 PM
Maybe the FAI are leaking bits and pieces to gauge the public view.
You can bet your stadium on it. This is one great big kite. However, the public view that they want to gauge is not to be found here. They will be happy with the kind of analysis, or lack of it, shown so far by media covering Genesis and the need for (yawn) radical change in EL.
pineapple stu
26/01/2006, 1:32 PM
For the record Dundalk were never leading Celtic in that EC tie. They had lost away 3-2 and the game in Oriel finished scoreless although apparently Dundalk missed a sitter.
Was it not 2-2 in Scotland for a while?
Have the clubs been contacted OFFICIALLY on any of this yet?
Yes, as far as I know. Also, seeing as they're voting on it in two days' time, they'd want to have been told by now.
Have the clubs been contacted OFFICIALLY on any of this yet?
yep...
Breifne
26/01/2006, 1:46 PM
Yes, as far as I know. Also, seeing as they're voting on it in two days' time, they'd want to have been told by now.
Clubs discussed this at a meeting over last weekend, there was so much controversy that the meeting was adjourned to before the AGM in limerick on Saturday.
Basically the teams that will be part of this league are as follows
Cork City
Derry City
Waterford United (Delaney hardly forgets his roots)
Galway United (Ditto John Byrne - Manager of the current eL)
Limerick (Population)
Shels (recent history)
Rovers (tradition)
One of Dundalk & Drogheda
Sligo Rovers
Longford
If there are two extra spots, probably Athlone and Kilkenny based on location and local population.
Cobh, Dublin City, UCD, Bray, Finn Harps (all ranked in the top 13 last season) don't have a realistic chance of being included, no matter where they finish this season. They should just take over the existing league, and promote it properly, a decent website, with supporting media (radio, print and TV ads). Why don't they run their own Soccer Show each week. It would be so worth it to produce a highlights package of each game, and then just let TV3, Setanta or RTE show it each week.
Make it as easy for the Television station as possible. Why can't we have a Sunday evening show around 7/8 for even half an hour, with one live game each Friday. It's not rocket science, and watch the attendances, sponsorship and profile of the league grow exponentially.
Bald Student
26/01/2006, 1:50 PM
Well at least the first division will still be competative with half the current premier stuck in it.
Student Mullet
26/01/2006, 1:52 PM
One of Dundalk & DroghedaSo, back to the original question. I vote Dundalk.
soccerc
26/01/2006, 1:54 PM
they're voting on it in two days' time, they'd want to have been told by now.
Correct, but the kernel of the problem is they don't know what they are voting for.
There is to be a management committee meeting before the AGM to decide if they will vote in favour of the proposal.
The problem is the proposal has not being fully defined or discussed.
Hearing that some clubs have been lobbied/briefed/nobbled in the past few days while others have not had any contact whatsoever.
Rochey
26/01/2006, 4:31 PM
if it did come down to Drogheda and Dundalk I dont think you could turf either out of the league if they meet the criteria set down by the eircom league. And that criteria must be met by all teams in the league therefore if Drogheda got their new stadium then they could not be turfed out. Likewise with Dundalk if they get their financial troubles sorted they too would not be able to be turfed out on off the field criteria. It would then come down to points.
Rochey
26/01/2006, 4:32 PM
points and league position and all that. jsut to clarify :D
A face
26/01/2006, 5:13 PM
Is Drogs/Dundalk merger definitely a non-runner ??
Is Drogs/Dundalk merger definitely a non-runner ??
What a stupid suggestion :rolleyes: .
Yeah - not even a .000000000000001% chance of it happening.
I'd rather watch my 8 year old cousin play football in the park than give my money to a ludricous suggestion like that - most supporters from both clubs would walk away from Eircom League football altogether than follow that - so dont even go there :mad:
Poor Student
26/01/2006, 5:37 PM
Is Drogs/Dundalk merger definitely a non-runner ??
A Face as if enough can of worms haven't been opened these last few days.:D
iceman
26/01/2006, 6:35 PM
Just for the record , John Delaney gave the "thumbs up" when he visited the site of Drogs new stadium on Friday last.
A face
26/01/2006, 7:19 PM
What a stupid suggestion
Yeah - not even a .000000000000001% chance of it happening.
I'd rather watch my 8 year old cousin play football in the park than give my money to a ludricous suggestion like that - most supporters from both clubs would walk away from Eircom League football altogether than follow that - so dont even go there
A Face as if enough can of worms haven't been opened these last few days.:D
Hook ..... line ...... sinker !! ;) :cool:
Cosmo .... only feicin' about fella !!
sullanefc
26/01/2006, 7:37 PM
So, back to the original question. I vote Dundalk.
Is it just me or does it seem like UCD fans are really worried about this and are trying to "scare" other fans into their viewpoint.
Just because UCD are a club with no fans and no future, doesn't mean that both Drogheda AND Dundalk can't BOTH compete in this new "Super League" or whatever you want to call it. BOTH Drogs AND Dundalk have what only UCD and Dublin City can only dream about - more than 10 fans.
UCD propaganda - i've seen it all now :rolleyes:
anto eile
26/01/2006, 8:00 PM
Why are people talking about franchises? My understanding of this proposal is that it is simply a mechanism to get rid of tax cheats and one man clubs. No one has mentioned there only being one franchise for Louth, two for Dublin etc. If Dundalk and Drogheda both have their houses in order they will both be eligible to get into the league.
correct.
franchise is an ugly word,no room for such language in football.
tax cheats-beware ollie
pineapple stu
26/01/2006, 8:21 PM
Is it just me or does it seem like UCD fans are really worried about this and are trying to "scare" other fans into their viewpoint.
Just because UCD are a club with no fans and no future, doesn't mean that both Drogheda AND Dundalk can't BOTH compete in this new "Super League" or whatever you want to call it. BOTH Drogs AND Dundalk have what only UCD and Dublin City can only dream about - more than 10 fans.
UCD propaganda - i've seen it all now :rolleyes:
Good Christ - here's a proposition which will kill off half the teams in the league and you're complaining about UCD propoganda?! Here's a proposal to hand the entire league - and, rivalries aside, we all follow with equal passion and, outside of pub talk or forum flaming, acknowledge that there is a bond between every eL club and their fans - and all you can do is make petty talk about clubs having ten fans?!
First off, it doesn't matter a sh!te what your opinion is - you're not being asked to vote. I've no intention of propogandising you or anyone else. I have every intention of pointing out how serious this is for the clubs - and Breifne has mentioned more than us who are in trouble if this goes ahead - who will get screwed over by their own organisation. An arbitrarily selected league under arbitrary criteria with promotion subject to the same arbitrary criteria means a closed shop Premier, which means the First Division clubs all die. The league is to be handed over to one of the most corrupt and incompetent organisations in its entirety and we're supposed to be dancing in the streets rejoicing in Delaney our saviour?! The league is supposed to get better by relegating teams who finish mid-table and promoting teams who, despite vague "potential" can't get their act together enough to get promoted? The league is supposed to get better by relegating good teams and promoting worse ones?!
Second off, there are plenty of people up in arms over this - Pat's fans, Longford fans, Bohs fans to names fans of but three clubs who should be OK under this new system.
Third off, Genesis explicitly mentions picking clubs based on "population centres". If you want to stick your head in the sand and say the FAI will definitely not go down that road, fair enough. But in that case, it's you who are the idiot, not us.
Hook ..... line ...... sinker !! ;) :cool:
Cosmo .... only feicin' about fella !!
Never hear of similes? :o
A face
27/01/2006, 9:18 AM
Good Christ - here's a proposition which will kill off half the teams in the league and you're complaining about UCD propoganda?! Here's a proposal to hand the entire league - and, rivalries aside, we all follow with equal passion and, outside of pub talk or forum flaming, acknowledge that there is a bond between every eL club and their fans - and all you can do is make petty talk about clubs having ten fans?!
First off, it doesn't matter a sh!te what your opinion is - you're not being asked to vote. I've no intention of propogandising you or anyone else. I have every intention of pointing out how serious this is for the clubs - and Breifne has mentioned more than us who are in trouble if this goes ahead - who will get screwed over by their own organisation. An arbitrarily selected league under arbitrary criteria with promotion subject to the same arbitrary criteria means a closed shop Premier, which means the First Division clubs all die. The league is to be handed over to one of the most corrupt and incompetent organisations in its entirety and we're supposed to be dancing in the streets rejoicing in Delaney our saviour?! The league is supposed to get better by relegating teams who finish mid-table and promoting teams who, despite vague "potential" can't get their act together enough to get promoted? The league is supposed to get better by relegating good teams and promoting worse ones?!
Second off, there are plenty of people up in arms over this - Pat's fans, Longford fans, Bohs fans to names fans of but three clubs who should be OK under this new system.
Third off, Genesis explicitly mentions picking clubs based on "population centres". If you want to stick your head in the sand and say the FAI will definitely not go down that road, fair enough. But in that case, it's you who are the idiot, not us.
I have to agree with this ... we all seem to be taking this very lightly being honest.
Another point aswell, have many fans (barr diehards) want to look at a manufactured, artificial league which aestheticly looks great but is no where near a fair competition, without clubs having to achieve position on merit.
It has to be said .... if the clubs that are in the population centres aren't able to progress and achieve both on and off the pitch then who is to say they'll actually be able to stay up in the golden circle. It takes alot of hard work to get into and stay in top flight, if you dont have the work done, then you have less of a chance of staying there.
If the FAI actually achieve their 'masterplan', who is to say it wont be fudged in three years with team going straight back down.
Duffman
27/01/2006, 12:47 PM
Dundalk just back from the hospital there very efficent so they go my vote :D
Begs the question how many hospitals did you pass coming from Inchicore! Apparently the Louth County is one of the most efficient in the country
monutdfc
27/01/2006, 1:33 PM
If the FAI want to achieve their objective of having 50,000 people watching top class football in a top class arena wih top class facilities, then why not merge the big 4 Dublin Clubs and have St Shelhemians Rovers play in the English Premier League based int he new Lansdowne Road?
Meanwhile, the IFA could follow suit with Glenfieldville attracting huge crowds to their Coca Cola Championshiop games at George Best Park (aka the Maze).
And I'm sure Cork Ramblers and Derrystute would get good crowds at their League 1 and 2 games. ;)
Block G Raptor
27/01/2006, 2:33 PM
Jebus lad's I'm a big advocate of anything that can improve our league
but with all this talk of franchised(or should that be disenfranchised)football
I'm really starting to think if it ain't broke don't fix it surely what we have now ie. average quality football with disproportionately p!ss poor attendances is better than basically homicide of maybe 30% of the clubs in this country. I think it's time we got off our ar$e$ and did something to halt this before it gets out of control
Anyone fancy a campaign of civil disobediance etc ?
Who should get the Louth franchise?
Cork City.
Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.:rolleyes:
Student Mullet
27/01/2006, 4:01 PM
Who should get the Louth franchise?
Cork City.
Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.:rolleyes:You can call the question stupid if you like but if these proposals go through, there's going to be someone in merrion square deciding this.
sullanefc
27/01/2006, 6:06 PM
Good Christ - here's a proposition which will kill off half the teams in the league and you're complaining about UCD propoganda?! Here's a proposal to hand the entire league - and, rivalries aside, we all follow with equal passion and, outside of pub talk or forum flaming, acknowledge that there is a bond between every eL club and their fans - and all you can do is make petty talk about clubs having ten fans?!
First off, it doesn't matter a sh!te what your opinion is - you're not being asked to vote. I've no intention of propogandising you or anyone else. I have every intention of pointing out how serious this is for the clubs - and Breifne has mentioned more than us who are in trouble if this goes ahead - who will get screwed over by their own organisation. An arbitrarily selected league under arbitrary criteria with promotion subject to the same arbitrary criteria means a closed shop Premier, which means the First Division clubs all die. The league is to be handed over to one of the most corrupt and incompetent organisations in its entirety and we're supposed to be dancing in the streets rejoicing in Delaney our saviour?! The league is supposed to get better by relegating teams who finish mid-table and promoting teams who, despite vague "potential" can't get their act together enough to get promoted? The league is supposed to get better by relegating good teams and promoting worse ones?!
Second off, there are plenty of people up in arms over this - Pat's fans, Longford fans, Bohs fans to names fans of but three clubs who should be OK under this new system.
Third off, Genesis explicitly mentions picking clubs based on "population centres". If you want to stick your head in the sand and say the FAI will definitely not go down that road, fair enough. But in that case, it's you who are the idiot, not us.
Plenty of other closed shop competitions work.
Intercounty Football in GAA
&
Celtic League - Rugby
This league needs a drastic change and setting up a league with 'proper' clubs sounds good to me.
Plenty of other closed shop competitions work.
Intercounty Football in GAA
&
Celtic League - Rugby
This league needs a drastic change and setting up a league with 'proper' clubs sounds good to me.
Actually, it turns out the Celtic League isn't working!
They're on about axeing another Welsh region
What's to say that we won't end up with a Connaught, Leinster, Ulster and Cork F.C. if the league isn't good enough after these first few changes?
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