Ground Sharing

[Grasshopper 99]

Heard from a source, that the government want Shelbourne Fc to move into Dallymount with Bohs as well as St.Patricks moving into Tallaght with Shamrock Rovers.
All four clubs will be given a massive cash boost of a couple million each for this off the government.
Dont know if any one else heard about this??? but i cant see it happening.

[tallaghtfornia]

Roddy Collins wrote about this in the star on sunday, shels-bohs thing might work but pats in tallaght in my opinion should never happen, they can keep their stadium of light, we are gettin back on our feet slowly but surely and are well entitled to our OWN ground at this stage

[superfrank]

pats in tallaght in my opinion should never happen, they can keep their stadium of light, we are gettin back on our feet slowly but surely and are well entitled to our OWN ground at this stage
Every club is entitled to their own ground. If true, it just shows that government don't give a crap about our league.

[NY Hoop]

Heard from a source, that the government want Shelbourne Fc to move into Dallymount with Bohs as well as St.Patricks moving into Tallaght with Shamrock Rovers.
All four clubs will be given a massive cash boost of a couple million each for this off the government.
Dont know if any one else heard about this??? but i cant see it happening.

Well your "source" is about a week late!! Was in the star last friday. Wont happen.

KOH

[Grasshopper 99]

I heard it back then but i was also told about it last night, from some one else. shels bohs might happen but not a hope pats moving to tallaght.

[grounded]

Wasn't that up for discussion about a year ago? If I remember correctly the clubs wanted to build a new Stadium back then. Hopefully it won't happen. As someone said earlier every club should have their own ground. Think identifying yourself with the crest of the club is as important as identifying yourself with their homeground for the majority of the supporters it is anyway........oh dear i hope i make sense at all:o

[Roverstillidie]

my understanding is that boyezzzz might sell shels 49% of dalyer and let them do their worst with the connaught st side. the govt will hand them approx 10m and shels will have the cash from the sale of their lease on tolka back to DCC. but the gypo members will probably not bite.
pats to tallaght is far more likely. we have to share with other football sides, we assumed this to mean local LSL/junior/schools sides, but why not another EL club? its the only one that a club cant 'block'.
Pats would be the sub tenents and with the money they make from selling richer to spend on players etc. only serious issue for them is we will be well established in tallaght by then and the stadium will be very green and white.

[dcfcsteve]

my understanding is that boyezzzz might sell shels 49% of dalyer and let them do their worst with the connaught st side. the govt will hand them approx 10m and shels will have the cash from the sale of their lease on tolka back to DCC. but the gypo members will probably not bite.
pats to tallaght is far more likely. we have to share with other football sides, we assumed this to mean local LSL/junior/schools sides, but why not another EL club? its the only one that a club cant 'block'.
Pats would be the sub tenents and with the money they make from selling richer to spend on players etc. only serious issue for them is we will be well established in tallaght by then and the stadium will be very green and white.

Two teams moving into Tallaght from outside is daft. There's plenty of scope for one club to become established in that area - but where's the logic in havign 2 clubs competing directly for exactly the same audience from scratch ? Why divide your potential support ?

[Gareth]

Heard from a source, that the government want Shelbourne Fc to move into Dallymount with Bohs as well as St.Patricks moving into Tallaght with Shamrock Rovers.
All four clubs will be given a massive cash boost of a couple million each for this off the government.
Dont know if any one else heard about this??? but i cant see it happening.

Source? It was in the papers days ago and the notion has been around since early last year.

[soccerc]

Pats would be the sub tenents

Not my understanding. Both clubs would have equal status in a municipal stadium



the money they make from selling richer to spend on players etc

Again, my understanding is that any club co joining Rovers in Tallaght would be asked to make a significant financial contribution.


the stadium will be very green and white.

Wouldn't bet on that, SDCC will decide on the final finish and will make it as neutral as possible.

[NY Hoop]

Not my understanding. Both clubs would have equal status in a municipal stadium

Again, my understanding is that any club co joining Rovers in Tallaght would be asked to make a significant financial contribution.

Wouldn't bet on that, SDCC will decide on the final finish and will make it as neutral as possible.

We will be the MAIN tenants in the ground and we will have the right to have 40 matches there a year. Also we can build a bar out of own funds and keep all profits.

The SDCC have not yet decided on the finishing touches re colour of seats etc.

At the moment this is all paper talk.

KOH

[Roverstillidie]

Not my understanding. Both clubs would have equal status in a municipal stadium




Again, my understanding is that any club co joining Rovers in Tallaght would be asked to make a significant financial contribution.



Wouldn't bet on that, SDCC will decide on the final finish and will make it as neutral as possible.

a: incorrect. we are anchor tenants with 40 games per year guaranteed. all other teams using the grounds wont have the same rights as us.

b: dont honestly know about that, i thought the loot was the sweetner.

c: the ground will have a rovers clubhouse and signage. at the moment the plans are for green and white seats etc. i havent heard of any changes to that plan.

[soccerc]

We will be the MAIN tenants in the ground and we will have the right to have 40 matches there a year. Also we can build a bar out of own funds and keep all profits.

The SDCC have not yet decided on the finishing touches re colour of seats etc.

At the moment this is all paper talk.

KOH

Sorry NY Hoop, the original stadium had planning permission to stage 40 games per year. That PP has since expired. Ypu can be sure that SDCC will seek to maximise the use of their stadium.

If and I stress if St Pats move to Tallaght they would have the same rights as any other club using the "municipal facility". While you have been promised a portion of land to build a club house who is to say any other club would not be afforded the same generosity.

Oh it's not all paper talk. ;)

[Roverstillidie]

Sorry NY Hoop, the original stadium had planning permission to stage 40 games per year. That PP has since expired. Ypu can be sure that SDCC will seek to maximise the use of their stadium.


that is not true. SDCC have since committed to this as terms of our tenancy. whatever your source is, its wrong.

[soccerc]

that is not true. SDCC have since committed to this as terms of our tenancy. whatever your source is, its wrong.

Have SRFC a signed tenancy agreement from SDCC in their hands?

Have SDCC full control of the lands yet?

Have SDCC finalised their plans for the site?

Have SDCC secured funding to finish the stadium?


My source is impeccable and always has been.

[Roverstillidie]

Have SRFC a signed tenancy agreement from SDCC in their hands?

Have SDCC full control of the lands yet?

Have SDCC finalised their plans for the site?

Have SDCC secured funding to finish the stadium?


My source is impeccable and always has been.

the first 2 nothing is signed, but the agreements are in place.

the final 2, yes.

[pete]

There are a lot more facts on foot.ie than most newspapers so just because a paper says this is true does not make it so.

Dublin eL clubs should get same funding as other eL sides. If prices are too expensive in the pale then have choice of building half a stadium or sharing a full stadium. Not fair that Dublin clubs get paid 10m to build expensive stadium when clubs outside the pale can do for a fraction fo that. Huge public money has been pumped into Tallaght & nothing to show for.

New 1500 seater stand in Turners Cross is costing approx 1m & that includes demolition so should follow that 6-8k seater stadium be easily done for €4-5m as would be savings doing all in one go.

[tallaghtfornia]

rovers will be the main tennant in tallaght and dont be suprised if after a few years they make an offer to buy the ground, the sdcc are doin their best to set the hoops up in a new home and make money off the back of it till rovers can stand on their own and buy it outright, just my opinion!!

[Roverstillidie]

There are a lot more facts on foot.ie than most newspapers so just because a paper says this is true does not make it so.

Dublin eL clubs should get same funding as other eL sides. If prices are too expensive in the pale then have choice of building half a stadium or sharing a full stadium. Not fair that Dublin clubs get paid 10m to build expensive stadium when clubs outside the pale can do for a fraction fo that. Huge public money has been pumped into Tallaght & nothing to show for.

New 1500 seater stand in Turners Cross is costing approx 1m & that includes demolition so should follow that 6-8k seater stadium be easily done for €4-5m as would be savings doing all in one go.

pete, if, and i repeat if, the fai and government go ahead with groundsharing as a rule, it will only effect dublin clubs.

the mythical 10m figure is to buy clubs off.

would you accept sharing with cobh and no sweetner?

but what difference does it make to you how much we get in grants? if a stand costs x in dublin and y in the sticks, its still going to pay for the stand. i could understand it if you werent getting cash as a result, but you are. very naive to think that monaghan and tolka will cost the same to rebuild.

[Magicme]

pete, if, and i repeat if, the fai and government go ahead with groundsharing as a rule, it will only effect dublin clubs.

the mythical 10m figure is to buy clubs off.

would you accept sharing with cobh and no sweetner?

but what difference does it make to you how much we get in grants? if a stand costs x in dublin and y in the sticks, its still going to pay for the stand. i could understand it if you werent getting cash as a result, but you are. very naive to think that monaghan and tolka will cost the same to rebuild.

Monaghan doesnt need to be rebuilt.....just a few millions worth of improvements!

[BohDiddley]

There are a lot more facts on foot.ie than most newspapers so just because a paper says this is true does not make it so.

Dublin eL clubs should get same funding as other eL sides. If prices are too expensive in the pale then have choice of building half a stadium or sharing a full stadium. Not fair that Dublin clubs get paid 10m to build expensive stadium when clubs outside the pale can do for a fraction fo that. Huge public money has been pumped into Tallaght & nothing to show for.

New 1500 seater stand in Turners Cross is costing approx 1m & that includes demolition so should follow that 6-8k seater stadium be easily done for €4-5m as would be savings doing all in one go.As almost always seems to happen when it comes to Dublin v rest of ... debates, any sense of proportion goes completely out of the window.
Based on population, Dublin deserves four club and four grounds, and certainly should not accept four clubs and two grounds. Far from being unfair to Cork (as if!), the proposal as currently floated massively discriminates against Dublin clubs and fans.
Lots of people here saying Rovers-Pats will never happen but Bohs-Shels could work. Absolute tosh. Why should BFC hand a lifeline to Ollie and co and let them cannibalise its natural constituency?
Another hare-brained scheme from FAI/Dept of Sport. They'll do anything to avoid having to subvent domestic football to make up for decades of neglect.

[Roverstillidie]

hate to admt it, but BD is 100% correct.

its easy for cork fans to be so flippant, no-one is trying to force them to sell 49% of their ground to cobh.

[Dodge]

BTW Pats will try and get the money to improve Richmond and have a new team in there. Also talk of the Givt wanting the northside ground to be in Abbotstown and not Dalymount. Apparently the only team of the big 4(UCD and DC not considered?) are Shels who have expressed a willingness to move from tolka and no preference to North/South side

Oh and the SDCC have offered Rovers a 1 year lease...

[Slash/ED]

Groundsharing in general shouldn't be dismissed right away, if Inter and AC Milan can do it I don't see why we can't here, but Shels moving into Dalymount Park would not go down too well with either side, and Abbotstown would be a disaster.

[Poor Student]

(UCD and DC not considered?)

We have two grounds on the campus, we can move to the rugby one if the soccer one is built on. Certain college rules prohibit us from groundsharing. It would make no sense to insist we groundshare with someone else outside of Belfield and we can't let anyone in.

[Gerrit]

And Dublin City are groundsharing anyway...


Just a wee note: most groundsharing situations came into existance without really having a choice. Bar a few exceptions.
Inter Milan moved into San Siro because they couldn't further use their own ground.
Lazio moved into the Stadio Olimpico only a few years after AS Roma started to use it.
1860 Munchen's spell at the Olympiastadion is a temporary one until they return to their own ground (which is being renovated).
Istanbulspor shared with load of clubs because they're more homeless stan SRFC.
In Moscow several clubs groundshare for financial reasons only, lack of funds for renovating their own ground etc.
Club Bruges and Cercle Bruges share a ground because the city council encouraged them for it and rewarded them financially for it.
Wimbledon only used Selhurst Park (of Crystal Palace) because their own ground was no longer usable.

Not sure of the situation in Torino (Juventus - Torino Calcio) and Ankara (Ankaragucu, Ankaraspor, Genclerbirligi) but surely there will be proper reasons for it as well.

Groundsharing is only very rarely a voluntary decision from both sides, usually it's one side reaching out to a club-in-need by letting the club-in-need use their accomodations.




As for Shamrock Rovers: you already were tenants of St Pats, surely you can survive doing that a second time now ? :D

[higgins]

I think its great that Cork fans think they are the ones getting the bad deal!!

Puts yourself in the shoes of a Shels or Pats fan. You think moving from your current ground is something you'd be looking forward to! You seem to think moving out of a ground you own to another one you will half own with a rival is something we are all jumping up and down about?

and Bohs fans over the bailing Ollie out comments!!
Will you for 1 second do the exact same as the cork fans and imagine you were asked to sell up Dalymount and share with Shels in Tolka???? I am not sure where your getting the ideas that your doing us Shels fans a favour. Its not like we are going around begging for a place to play football. we have a long term lease on Tolka and can carry on playing there no problems for as long as we want. When two teams share a ground 1 has to leave the ground they are in!!!

[pete]

If the government wants to build us a 12-15k all seater stadium on the eatern outskirts of Cork City & make us share with Cobh as well as giving us a cash injection i don't think i'd say No staright away.

[Dodge]

We have two grounds on the campus, we can move to the rugby one if the soccer one is built on. Certain college rules prohibit us from groundsharing. It would make no sense to insist we groundshare with someone else outside of Belfield and we can't let anyone in.
No, you're not being considered for the sper dooper league...

Oh and Higgins, you're not being forced out, your club is actively looking to move. Big difference

[fitzknows]

If the government wants to build us a 12-15k all seater stadium on the eatern outskirts of Cork City & make us share with Cobh as well as giving us a cash injection i don't think i'd say No staright away.

Damn right you wouldnt. Unlike St. Pats or Bohs, Cork do not own their own ground. If St. Pats or Bohs wanted a 12k to 15k modern ground immediately they could just sell their existing grounds and move out. But why should they, they´re established in their localities for a long time. Why should they have to share with another club in order to receive grants when the other club is going to threaten their fanbase. It´s not as if Richmond and Dalymount are substandard compared to other grounds in the league and no club is anywhere near to attracting over 10k to their games on a regular basis.

[Jerry The Saint]

I think its great that Cork fans think they are the ones getting the bad deal!!


For Cork people it's a bonus to have a senior club for any protracted length of time. You can see why they wouldn't be too bothered about abandoning a ground.:D

[bohs til i die]

Slash/ED
AC Milan are looking at building a 60,000 ground of their own and Inter are thinking either rebuilding the San Siro or getting a stadium of their own. They are looking to re-establish themselves in stadiums they own so they can maximise revenue.


Gerrit
Juventus are to start a rebuilding of the Delle Alpi this summer and Torino are going back to the Comunale. Ground sharing is different to another club selling half of what was theirs for 105 years. Most groundsharing around Europe is done in Municipal stadiums. Clubs would have used these facilities because there was no cost or liability involved.


Higgins
Ollie has figured out that the move to Bally-whats-it-called will be a disaster and wants either Abbotstown or Dalymount. He wont move Shels to Dalyer without getting his name on the ownership details. Thats bailing Shels out.

Rovers have been bailed out by the SDCC, Pats are being courted by the SDCC as a 2nd potential tenant in a municipal soccer stadium in Tallaght - but Pats do own the Stadium of Sh1te - and Shels are rightly fukked. Lease on Tolka sold, no definite destination when out of Tolka. Not a whole lot of options left there Higgins is there? [How is Bally-whats-it-called coming along anyway?].

Take your pick - Abbotstown or Dalymount. I want Bohs to stay in Dalymount and couldnt care less what happens to Shels so long as you dont end up in Dalymount. The reason is simple. I am a member of Bohemians. As a member, I dont want to see 105 years of history and heritage get sacrificed so some low life criminal like Ollie Byrne ends up owning part of what I and every other Bohs member owns.

Oh, and Shels arent being forced to move. Shels are actively seeking to move. If not then why were Shels looking into a move to Bally-whats-it-called a few years ago?


This could well be the stick used by the FAI to force Bohs to accept Shels as co-owners of Dalymopunt Park. Let them in or you are out of our FFL [Franchise Football League].

[BohDiddley]

If St. Pats or Bohs wanted a 12k to 15k modern ground immediately they could just sell their existing grounds and move out. But why should they, they´re established in their localities for a long time. Why should they have to share with another club in order to receive grants when the other club is going to threaten their fanbase. It´s not as if Richmond and Dalymount are substandard compared to other grounds in the league and no club is anywhere near to attracting over 10k to their games on a regular basis.
Bravo. Couldn't have put it better myself.
I would also be totally opposed to selling Dalymount because place is so important a part of the Bohs vibe, but I would prefer to do that than share with Shelbourne.

[Roverstillidie]

my bohemian namesake, btid, has hit the nail exactly and squarely on the head.

forget the franchise thing, its irrelevant.

fai want 2 decent stadia in dublin for underage games etc. one on either side of the liffey.

btid, would oily not being involved in shels make the deal easier for the BFC members...... just a whisper i heard

[bohs til i die]

with or without Ollie Byrne, I dont want Shels to ever own evena square inch of Dalymount Park.

[Roverstillidie]

with or without Ollie Byrne, I dont want Shels to ever own evena square inch of Dalymount Park.

thats not what i asked.... :p

[NY Hoop]

Rovers have been bailed out by the SDCC, Pats are being courted by the SDCC as a 2nd potential tenant in a municipal soccer stadium in Tallaght -

Correction. Pats have not been courted by SDCC.

Also you're dead right about not wanting shels or that criminal anywhere near your ground. Going to dalymount means playing the scum not shels ffs:D

KOH

[soccerc]

Dublin, 26th January FAI Statement

Read into it what you want

At the invitation of the FAI and as a natural follow-on from the publication of the recent Genesis report on the future of the eircom League, discussions have taken place between representatives of Bohemian FC and Shelbourne FC about a possible ground share arrangement. These discussions are being chaired by the FAI.

Both Clubs have entered into these discussions without prejudice to other strategic and developmental initiatives which are under consideration. The talks are taking place in the full recognition of the best interests of the stakeholders of both clubs and for the benefit of the long-term future of the clubs.

The sensitive nature of these discussions dictates that no further statement will be made at this time.

[Poor Student]

I've never actually figured out, why is the FAI so hellbent in getting Shels and Bohs into the one stadium?

[Raheny Red]

Shels-Gypos In Talks (http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0126/dalymount.html)

The prospect of Bohemians and Shelbourne sharing the same ground has moved a step closer to reality after confirmation from the FAI today that representatives from both clubs have met to discuss the possibility in conjunction with officials from Merrion Square.

A statement from the FAI said: "At the invitation of the FAI and as a natural follow-on from the publication of the recent Genesis report on the future of the eircom League, discussions have taken place between representatives of Bohemian FC and Shelbourne FC about a possible ground share arrangement. These discussions are being chaired by the FAI."

Recent speculation has suggested the two northside clubs could share a ground at a redeveloped Dalymount Park in Phibsboro, which would be co-funded by the Government and the sale of Shelbourne's Tolka Park in Drumcondra.
Email Services from RTE

The statement added: "Both clubs have entered into these discussions without prejudice to other strategic and developmental initiatives which are under consideration. The talks are taking place in the full recognition of the best interests of the stakeholders of both clubs and for the benefit of the long-term future of the clubs.

"The sensitive nature of these discussions dictates that no further statement will be made at this time."

It is believed a similar arrangement is on the cards south of the River Liffey, with St Patrick's Athletic and Shamrock Rovers suggested as co-tenants of the new stadium in Tallaght. This partnership would also be partly funded by the Government and the sale of St Pat's' Richmond Park in Inchicore.

[grounded]

And Dublin City are groundsharing anyway...

1860 Munchen's spell at the Olympiastadion is a temporary one until they return to their own ground (which is being renovated).


1860 have left the "Gruenwalder Strasse" because they got promoted to the Bundesliga years back and have been playing in the Olympiastadion since. They now play in the new Allianz Arena and as it looks like they won't move. They probably get promoted back in to the Bundesliga this year so a move anywhere else is more than unlikely!

[Gerrit]

with the risk of going off-topic:

1) does Gruenwalder Strasse ground still exist?

2) are you the same Grounded as on footballgroundguide.ipbhost.com forum?;)

[grounded]

Yes as far as I know it still exists. If I am not mistaken 1860 and Bayern Munichs second teams are playing there.

Oh and yes that would be me in the Groundguide Messageboard;)

[Block G Raptor]

a: . we are anchor tenants

well thats the key isn't it Tenants ie not your ground, ergo still homeless still renting and your landlord SDCC can bring in who they want

[Dodge]

Especially when Rovers haven't signed anything with the SDCC

[Roverstillidie]

well thats the key isn't it Tenants ie not your ground, ergo still homeless still renting and your landlord SDCC can bring in who they want

can you elaborate to the group who actually owns dalymount and BFC's business relationship with them?

[Block G Raptor]

I'd hold off on being a smartarse if I was you considering in the near future Boez will own only 48% of dalyer.

Read my previous post in this thread re:how I feel about bohs/shels ground share. I'm mearly pointing out that the SDCC could Fcuk rovers over on the tenancy of the municipal tallaght stadium and basically that rovers have no say in the matter of who else uses the stadium on the day's not included in your forty games a year lease. please correct me if I'm wrong but that is my understanding of the situation

[Block G Raptor]

can you elaborate to the group who actually owns dalymount and BFC's business relationship with them?

What the fcuk are you spouting about ?

And if you think that I'm on some anti rovers rant can I direct you attention to this http://www.foot.ie/showpost.php?p=425994&postcount=40

[NY Hoop]

well thats the key isn't it Tenants ie not your ground, ergo still homeless still renting and your landlord SDCC can bring in who they want

Free rent pal.

Also what about the pats fans who dont want to move?

Do yourself a favour and tell oily to fcuk off.

KOH

[Passive]

Block G Raptor, we've been saying all along that we don't own Tallaght and so who plays there has nothing to do with us.

Stick to the dating websites, apparently you pick things up quicker there.