Croker open for business in 2007 [Archive] - Page 2

pete

19/01/2006, 10:32 AM

Whats the chances of the GAA sticking a roof and seats in the Hill 16 end before the qualifiers?

Planning permission not allowed for a roof. FIFA/Uefa won't allow bucket seats in a new stadium.

Watching Setanta last night & was hilarious stuff from GAA folks. I always love the "i'm not against other sports but..." comments. Guys going on about been flooding by "soccer-types" wanting to use their local pitches.

Why are the GAA so obcessed witht this? Surely they can make up their own minds & decide on case per case basis that will rent thier pitch or not. There many cases of GAA teams using "soccer" facilities to train.

:rolleyes:

Kingdom

19/01/2006, 10:38 AM

Planning permission not allowed for a roof. FIFA/Uefa won't allow bucket seats in a new stadium.

Watching Setanta last night & was hilarious stuff from GAA folks. I always love the "i'm not against other sports but..." comments. Guys going on about been flooding by "soccer-types" wanting to use their local pitches.

Why are the GAA so obcessed witht this? Surely they can make up their own minds & decide on case per case basis that will rent thier pitch or not. There many cases of GAA teams using "soccer" facilities to train.

:rolleyes:

The best, most profile and recent example being St Catherines (?) Camogie team in Belfast receiving permission from David Jefferies the Linfield coach for the use of Windsor Park to train in prior to an Antrim camogie final.
Proof if any to move on. Always seemed like a nice bloke that Jeffries geezer.

Stuttgart88

19/01/2006, 12:19 PM

I hated Jeffries in the 80s when Linfield bt Rovers on away goals in Europe, but I'm over it now. :)

Going off on a tangent here: am I right in thinking that clubs like Linfield have really cleaned up their act re-sectarianism etc etc. and that (many / all?) fans of the Irish League are prepared to put aside their prejudices when playing eL teams? Put another way, I get the impression that supporting Irish football is the more important consideration among fans from both sides of the border, particularly in the face of Premiership TV saturation.

Just curious.

klein4

19/01/2006, 12:22 PM

shouldnt you be asking it on the eircom league forum?
might get a better response

Stuttgart88

19/01/2006, 12:55 PM

Probably, but Kingdom has a Glentoran crest as his avatar...

Tks.

Kingdom

19/01/2006, 12:58 PM

Probably, but Kingdom has a Glentoran crest as his avatar...

Tks.

Oops. I've kinda misled you so buddy! I know diddley squat about the Northern situation. tbh I likes it. I probably should have the francis crest.
Sorry.

dublinred

19/01/2006, 1:07 PM

Planning permission not allowed for a roof. FIFA/Uefa won't allow bucket seats in a new stadium.

Watching Setanta last night & was hilarious stuff from GAA folks. I always love the "i'm not against other sports but..." comments. Guys going on about been flooding by "soccer-types" wanting to use their local pitches.

Why are the GAA so obcessed witht this? Surely they can make up their own minds & decide on case per case basis that will rent thier pitch or not. There many cases of GAA teams using "soccer" facilities to train.

:rolleyes:

Does this mean we are paying top whack for 3/4 of a stadium, assuming the hill holds 25000 we are getting a 55,000 seater stadium, the atmosphere will be crap if one sid eof the ground is completely empty, with croke park was it the inttention to buikd the worlds first horseshoe stadium or were they going to finish it off at some stage i didn't realise that there was no planning permission for a roof on hill 16.

NeilMcD

19/01/2006, 1:09 PM

As far as I know the Hill holds 16,000 with the total capacity of Croke Park is 84,000 which leaves 68,000 without the Hill

klein4

19/01/2006, 1:10 PM

Probably, but Kingdom has a Glentoran crest as his avatar...

Tks.
thought it was an interesting question.
but you would have got a better answer there....

paul_oshea

19/01/2006, 1:11 PM

pete give it a rest will ye.

Jerry The Saint

19/01/2006, 1:16 PM

Does this mean we are paying top whack for 3/4 of a stadium, assuming the hill holds 25000 we are getting a 55,000 seater stadium, the atmosphere will be crap if one sid eof the ground is completely empty, with croke park was it the inttention to buikd the worlds first horseshoe stadium or were they going to finish it off at some stage i didn't realise that there was no planning permission for a roof on hill 16.

There are just under 70,000 seats in Croker, i.e. more than double the soccer capacity of Lansdowne. The GAA always intended to leave Hill 16 as a safe standing area, despite certain people trying to impose UK-style all-seater restrictions on them, and they should be applauded for this. If having a roof and a seat are that important there are plenty of bars to watch the game in.

Anyway, several grounds have 3 larger sides - Twickenham and Millenium Stadium for example. The new Lansdowne design will have a single-tier stand at the North Terrace end.

Tired&Emotional

19/01/2006, 1:26 PM

The GAA always intended to leave Hill 16 as a safe standing area, despite certain people trying to impose UK-style all-seater restrictions on them, and they should be applauded for this.

Not sure about that. There was very good reason for the "UK-style all-seater restrictions" and I would consider that a lesson to be learnt from rather than adopting an attitude of "we not doing that because the UK did it":confused:

NeilMcD

19/01/2006, 1:30 PM

The point is that there has never been trouble on the terrace at Croke park as there was in the UK. Therefore Hill 16 should be kept as a terrace as it is a special place to see and hear when the Dubs are playing. If bucket seats can be installed fair enough. But the GAA are not going to build a roof or install seats just for the soccer and rugby crowd. At the end of the day they are the landlords and the FAI and IRFU are the tenants.

Tired&Emotional

19/01/2006, 1:38 PM

Hillsborough was the reason - who's to say the same would happen on Hill 16 someday in some way or another.....accidents aren't planned and there is no escape in a panicing mass of people no matter what the intention was...
At least seated areas minimise this risk.

I am saying this in the context of what I have said above - nothing to do with Rule 42 amendment - but has come to the fore for this reason. Safety first...

paul_oshea

19/01/2006, 1:46 PM

As far as I know the Hill holds 16,000 with the total capacity of Croke Park is 84,000 which leaves 68,000 without the Hill

wrong wrong, we have had this before.

82,500 (thought there has been more than this in croke park since its been redone)

without hill its about 68,000 - i actually think its slightly more but anyhow.

the hill was kept for three reasons, the railway lines ( were too close to the hill thats why its so steep), residents (are facing right into it) and the sentimental value im sure was a contributor.

NeilMcD

19/01/2006, 1:53 PM

OwlsFan

19/01/2006, 2:28 PM

The FAI are responsible for their own lack of unity, ambition and political infighting on the national stadium issue over the last 3 decades. The GAA went ahead regardless of whether tax money was forthcoming. The FAI had that choice as well.

This is one of the great misconceptions that many soccer fans have in this country. "The FAI had that choice". To build a stadium that even this cash rich government baulks at :eek: With what funds exactly were there to build a stadium ? Prior to Big Jack the FAI was verging on bankruptcy but people believe they should have been capable of builing stadiums to house non-existent crowds of 50,000. I was at soccer internationals 30 years ago where 14k people would show up for games. The odd game would attract a sell out crowd at Dalymount but Lansdowne, when we moved there, was seldom if ever full. After the Big Jack era that changed but there was never anywhere near the amount of money required to purchase a site and build a stadium. Bernard O'Beirne tried to do it with Eircom Park but the funding just wasn't around and the plan died a painful and expensive death.

You cannot compare the FAI to the GAA which for historical reasons has a club in every community in this country, unlike soccer which for many years was confined to the working class and so-called garrision towns. The GAA can host any number of big matches at Croke Park to fund the stadium. The FAI is limited to a few soccer internationals a year.

I don't see the IFA up north (a similar type organisation) with a national stadium holding 40k. If you are going to make comparisions, try and make them fair ones.

Ouch! :( Just fell off my soap box (again).

pete

19/01/2006, 2:29 PM

Can the FAI sell 68k seats in Croke Park?

Taking the first team in each pool we'd have games against... Once novelty has worn off how many seats at �50 will they sell for bottom 3 seeds?

Greece
Germany
Serbia & Montenegro
Hungary
Georgia
Liechtenstein

Will the IRFU sell 80k seats for all the 6 Nations games? Italy games struggle to fill Lansdowne so will be hard.

tetsujin1979

19/01/2006, 2:39 PM

I'd imagine the FAI will try to organise the 3 games already mentioned against the 3 top seeds in the group, and the othe home games for Lansdowne

Schumi

19/01/2006, 2:42 PM

The FAI will sell the games in groups if they've any sense. You only get a ticket for e.g. Germany if you buy a ticket for e.g. Kazakhstan as well.

klein4

19/01/2006, 3:50 PM

So where am I wrong then. U have said that it holds 68,000 without the Hill and so did I. U have said the capcity is 82,500 but there has been more since it was re-done so how much more. I reckon it brought it up to 84,000. If you are going to correct somebody please put up specifics.
you are totally wrong to say there has never been crowd trouble on hill16.
for a start. and if ever there was a potential for a disaster its at GAA grounds with people on the beer for the day and antiquated stadiums with terracing.

NeilMcD

19/01/2006, 3:55 PM

"The point is that there has never been trouble on the terrace at Croke park as there was in the UK. Therefore Hill 16 should be kept as a terrace as it is a special place to see and hear when the Dubs are playing. If bucket seats can be installed fair enough. But the GAA are not going to build a roof or install seats just for the soccer and rugby crowd. At the end of the day they are the landlords and the FAI and IRFU are the tenants."

Well I would like you to read my quote again, I never said there was never trouble on Hill 16, This is what I said which is a different think altogether. Please read most post before you try to attack it.

"The point is that there has never been trouble on the terrace at Croke park as there was in the UK"

pete

19/01/2006, 4:00 PM

"The point is that there has never been trouble on the terrace at Croke park as there was in the UK"

Clearly that is true.

However wasn't there some incidents last year with people thrown out of Croke Park for things that happened on Hill16?

The only thing we can say is that officials are not attacked by supporters in irish football?

NeilMcD

19/01/2006, 4:03 PM

I would not be sloppy enough to suggest that there was never trouble on Croke Park or on Hill 16 as that would be leaving myself open and would be both foolish and careless on my part.

ThatGuy

19/01/2006, 4:05 PM

Isn't it funny how the people who accuse the GAA of biggotry seem to be the biggots themselves?

klein4

19/01/2006, 4:28 PM

"The point is that there has never been trouble on the terrace at Croke park as there was in the UK"
even taking into account your problems expressing yourself with the english language. there used to be trouble at the dublin matches on an annual basis.and there was fighting at the dublin derry game there a couple of years back. to name just one example. the hooligan/thug culture probably doesnt exist in GAA as much as english soccer because most of the would be hooligans are too busy on the field.:D

pete

19/01/2006, 4:28 PM

Isn't it funny how the people who accuse the GAA of biggotry seem to be the biggots themselves?

Are you a Bohs fan or just a GAA person lurging on this forum? When have you ever commented on the eL positively?

:rolleyes:

paul_oshea

19/01/2006, 5:02 PM

Isn't it funny how the people who accuse the GAA of biggotry seem to be the biggots themselves?

here here, what sickens me on this forum, those that give out about the gaa or GAHHHHH as they like to call it, yet they are as forceful and hypocritical as those they are talking about in the ranks of the gaa.

paul_oshea

19/01/2006, 5:07 PM

to name just one example.the hooligan/thug culture probably doesnt exist in GAA as much as english soccer because most of the would be hooligans are too busy on the field

klein you are an awful fool to beleive there is a thug/hooligan element to any extent, close to that in soccer in the uk, there is no organisation amongst "thugs" or hooligans in gaa, there may be the odd **** head or fella who is ****ed that gets thrown out for being too ****ed/leary/gives a fella a smack, but doesnt this happen on every saturday night in every town in ireland??? THis has nothing to do with thuggery among gaa fans or followers to suggest so is just pure ignorance.

when you have your facts and know what you are on about come back and discuss in a democratic way, dont just spout dictatorial minure.

When have you ever commented on the eL positively?

what has that got to do with the price of milk??? Nothing, nor has you suggesting him being a gaa fan have anything to do with the current topic.

Jerry The Saint

19/01/2006, 5:12 PM

antiquated stadiums with terracing.

Clearly doesn't apply in this case. There has been a pretty vocal campaign in the UK to bring safe, modern terracing. The rush to all-seater stadiums was more influenced by the idea that "something must be done" in the wake of Hillsborough than anything else.

All-ticket matches and increasing the number of entry/exit points have had a much bigger influence in reducing the potential dangers of the old Hill 16 (where a Hillsborough-type incident was, sadly, a genuine possibility for many years, due to overcrowding) than putting in bucket seats would have. Competent stewarding would also be good but don't get me started on that...

dublinred

19/01/2006, 6:23 PM

Karlos

19/01/2006, 6:54 PM

What will the situation be with away fans?

As far as I'm aware 10% of ground capacity must be offered (allthough not always accepted) to away supporters. So in the case of Holland or someone that would mean approx 7,000 seats given up.

My question really is a) where will the away fans sit and b) due to the shape and design of the stadium, how many empty seats/sections will be needed to separate opposition fans as I'm assuming it's not as easy as giving a team one end as you could do with the North Terrace etc for large away support. Is Croke Park easy to segregate? :confused:

Anyone any thoughts on this? As you might have already guessed, I've never set foot inside Croke Park for personal reasons that would only take this thread WAY off topic. :ball:

geysir

19/01/2006, 10:16 PM

My question really is a) where will the away fans sit and b) due to the shape and design of the stadium, how many empty seats/sections will be needed to separate opposition fans as I'm assuming it's not as easy as giving a team one end as you could do with the North Terrace etc for large away support. Is Croke Park easy to segregate? :confused:
Separate opposing fans, segregation, very strong words Karlos.
That's a new phenomenon for Croker to experience :)
Why not call it a reserved hospitality section for visiting fans, more in keeping with the Croke pk. ethos.

Karlos

19/01/2006, 10:22 PM

Separate opposing fans, segregation, very strong words Karlos.
That's a new phenomenon for Croker to experience :)
Why not call it a reserved hospitality section for visiting fans, more in keeping with the Croke pk. ethos.

was asking for that, wasn't I...!!! :)

although back on topic, I was thinking more about this in the UEFA context where we must provide 'reserved hospitality' (;) ) seating for our vistors. I'm assuming Croker wasn't designed for such an experience and just wondering what the logistics of arranging it will be.

Just hate the thought of seeing columns of empty seats in an attempt to create a boundary where 'hospitality seating' begins and ends....!!!

klein4

20/01/2006, 8:24 AM

klein you are an awful fool to beleive there is a thug/hooligan element to any extent, close to that in soccer in the uk, there is no organisation amongst "thugs" or hooligans in gaa, there may be the odd **** head or fella who is ****ed that gets thrown out for being too ****ed/leary/gives a fella a smack, but doesnt this happen on every saturday night in every town in ireland??? THis has nothing to do with thuggery among gaa fans or followers to suggest so is just pure ignorance.

when you have your facts and know what you are on about come back and discuss in a democratic way, dont just spout dictatorial minure.

sorry just got round to reading this rubbish now. I think you misread my post. the hooligan referance was a joke about the amount of violence that takes place on the pitch.who needs hooliganism when you have an all in running battle between the meath and mayo teams? dictatorial minure(manure???)? Its a total fact that there used to be fights on hill 16 all the time when dublin where playing. If you cant remember than the ignorance is on your part not mine. so please hold off on your pompous advice.

geysir

20/01/2006, 8:29 AM

Karlos, you would expect if the risk factor is eliminated (i.e. we don't get England or NI) that the FAI will reserve an area and nobody worries too much about a bit of mixing. There was some quite obvious crossover with Irish fans in the visiting fans allocated area at Landsdowne, I don't think there was much fuss made about it.
What size are the blocks of seats? There is a map of the seating arrangements somewhere on the web. Dare I say it, bite the bullit, there might be something on the GAA web site.

klein4

20/01/2006, 8:33 AM

in fairness to the GAA their website has a hell of a lot more useful content on it than the FAI one.

Jerry The Saint

20/01/2006, 9:26 AM

just to summarise back to topic , the FAI will be paying 1.2m a game plus % of gate for 3/4 of a stadium , bucket seats not allowed on hill , GAA have no intention of putting seats on Hill so we will be playing with one side of the ground empty,

(69000/82500)*100 = 84% of a stadium :)

The situation with bucket seats has yet to be confirmed but indications are that the FAI will ask UEFA/GAA nicely if they can put them in. This would allow for full segregation of away fans (in theory) but some may have other issues :rolleyes: with giving over the Hill to England/NI/Meath fans.

If they're not allowed it isn't the end of the world and may well help the atmosphere, as has already been stated, by allowing the pitch to be placed a lot closer to the Canal End. (Croke Park pitch size of 144.5 m x 88 m vs. Lansdowne which is around 100m x 70m).

The stands at Croker are built to modern stadium standards so any segregation required will follow the usual procedures at any stadium with continuous seating. There will probably be some small empty space and heavy stewarding in the relevant section and there may be a need to put up fences to separate the back of the stand area. (Slightly) Controversially, the new Hill was built specifically to allow segregation!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Croke_park_seating.jpg

paul_oshea

20/01/2006, 1:00 PM

in croke park you can walk from one end of the stadium to the other!!!

Tired&Emotional

20/01/2006, 1:03 PM

in croke park you can walk from one end of the stadium to the other!!!

Would imagine there may be restrictions on this - depending on the oppposition perhaps!

paul_oshea

20/01/2006, 1:11 PM

well i should have said there is usually stewards in the way, but no gates, well not last year anyhow which was the last time i was there and did it!

btw, i dont see how seats stop ppl from trampling on eachother, would they not make it easier as people fall over seats and people jump over seats to get out??

also the hill for the dubs v meath was definately more packed than the 13,500 said were in it last year, they were half way down the bloody exits some ppl!!! and there was literally just standing room.

Jerry The Saint

20/01/2006, 2:48 PM

in croke park you can walk from one end of the stadium to the other!!!

Or, more accurately, you can walk from one end (Railway End) all the way around the stadium and back to the same end (at the opposite side). :) Very handy if you need to meet people (especially at the bars in the Premium Section :p ). Apparently it was one of the first big stadiums to be oriented horizontally rather than vertically - i.e. Cusack Lower tickets allow walking access to Lower Tier of the entire ground but not Cusack Upper, etc. As I said a few temporary fences and extra stewards should put paid to that facility soon enough.

ThatGuy

20/01/2006, 3:49 PM

Are you a Bohs fan or just a GAA person lurging on this forum? When have you ever commented on the eL positively?

:rolleyes:
I'm a Bohs fan and I don't have any blind agendas to push like some of you guys. If you like the EL do you have to hate the GAA or vice-versa? No. The issues do not go hand in hand at all.