Northern teams are not inferior [Archive]

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royalblue

10/12/2005, 7:50 PM

This is a reply to:A FACE and anyone who thinks the same. A FACE typed: While i think that most of the eircom league sides are technically better, Linfield are a great side right now ... tough task for anyone up against them! This was posted on the CIS cup thread.

My reply to this:

Some people dont know what they are talking about!

To say that most southern teams are technically better than Northern counterparts is such a joke. True some teams do have great players who could play for any top team up north, but it would be the same down south with Northern Players. Glen ferguson, Stephen Carson, Chris Kingsburry, Garry Hamilton, Peter Thompson and many more are technically as good as anyone down south in theyre possition. There is no forward down south who could replace Glen Ferguson. Being a more fulltime league does make it a little easier to attract a higher quality player, but they are few and far between. Shels or Cork might have some great players in certain possitions, but so do Linfield and Glentoran. The real difference is fitness. When Linfield and Glentoran go fulltime you will see a hell of a difference, as they will eat, sleep, and drink football, but for now they will still work another job to supplement their living. Southern people are not born with better football skills, just are having better opportunities in last few years.

Great footballers all over Ireland North and South.

sligoman

10/12/2005, 7:52 PM

Erm, yes, they are. Obviously some Northern teams are better than some EL teams but our league is of a higher standard and the EL's best team would beat the North's best team in my opinion.

A face

10/12/2005, 7:53 PM

Some people dont know what they are talking about!

I was referring to the clubs that will be play in the Setanta Cup .... imo the teams from the eircom League look to be technically better.

Put it this way ... Are you saying they are technically on parr with eircom League clubs ??

EireBadBoy

10/12/2005, 8:00 PM

Erm, yes, they are. Obviously some Northern teams are better than some EL teams but our league is of a higher standard and the EL's best team would beat the North's best team in my opinion.

Who won the Setanta Cup?? :confused:

sligoman

10/12/2005, 8:03 PM

Who won the Setanta Cup?? :confused:Jaysus, surely you know by now?:confused:
Linfield (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/setantacup/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=17424):p

royalblue

10/12/2005, 8:04 PM

And you are entitled to your opinion mate. But did Linfield not beat your best in Shelbourne? The point im making is that players are not technically better because they live down south. Tell that to our dear departed George Best when he was around. Teams are just fitter down south generally. Each league has some technically great players that would grace eachothers league.

If the teams like Linfield Glentoran and Portadown trained fulltime theyre would be no difference.

Dont forget for many years you had a second rate league like ours, which actually was worse than ours. And its only with investment that you have improved.

But again when it comes to technical ability you either have it or you dont. Its not a regional thing or a national thing. You can improve on a players sharpness fitness and awareness, but you cant teach someone to play like wayne rooney for example.

sligoman

10/12/2005, 8:09 PM

And you are entitled to your opinion mate. But did Linfield not beat your best in Shelbourne?Yes, they did, but in my opinion, Shelbourne are not the EL's best team at the moment and they certainly weren't at that time either.

thejollyrodger

10/12/2005, 8:09 PM

southern clubs are superior, northern clubs are inferior FACT. Just look at the UEFA Co -efficents

royalblue

10/12/2005, 8:33 PM

Nearly everyone is missing the point, what i have been trying to say is that southern teams are generally fitter, but that cant make you technically better. To say so is pure nonsence. Fitness doesnt equal technically better. As for your great results in europe, do you honestly think its because you are technically better than the swiss,french,german,russian, etc These nations are technically superior than any produce in Ireland north or south. Its your fitness that helps you compensate for your lack of technical abilty. Just have to look at the FA Cup or other tournaments. You will quite often see teams like Aston Villa, Everton Spurs etc get beat by a team from a lesser division. Is that down to better players, generally no, down to fitness and will to win. Everton got to fourth last year, was that because they had the fourth best set of technically gifted players? no it wasnt. It was because they hounded teams and they where well organised.

Shels Crowe is not technically better than Glen Ferguson
Shels Baker is not technically better than Stephen Carson
Shels Byrne is not technically better than Gary Hamilton

Just some examples.

sligoman

10/12/2005, 8:34 PM

Stevo Da Gull

10/12/2005, 8:37 PM

royalblue

10/12/2005, 8:47 PM

I appreciate what people are saying and its each to his/her own. What i was replying to was when a few people posted on the cis thread that most southern teams are technically better than linfield. For a team to be technically better, it has to have technically better players. So they where saying that most southern teams have better players than Linfield. Which is just a laugh.

BleusAvantTout

10/12/2005, 9:20 PM

Well I have'nt read all the posts before me but i'll chuck my two cents in anyway.

IMO Linfield are the best team in the 32 counties, I'm not convinced that the quality is good up north outside the top 3/4 but I dont see as much Irish League Football as I do EL Football so I could'nt say for certain.

Well said SDG I have always said that! ;) I remember Madame Bleus et moi going to Bray in March 1990 and we sat outside a pub, overlooking the sea, and had a nice lunch.:cool: You scratch our backs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,!;)

sfc red

10/12/2005, 11:04 PM

Shels Crowe is not technically better than Glen Ferguson
Shels Baker is not technically better than Stephen Carson
Shels Byrne is not technically better than Gary Hamilton

Just some examples.

Baker and Crowe do not even feature in our best 11.
Byrne is off to Scandinavia for 500k, is Hamilton better than Byrne???

You seem to have chosen very particular examples there, coincidentally leaving out some of the EL's most technically gifted players, Hoolahan, Heary, Ndo, Crawley, etc.

royalblue

10/12/2005, 11:21 PM

Is Hamilton better than Byrne in my honest opinion yes. Byrne will raise more money because he is fulltime and he is in a fulltime league. That automatically puts up the price. You just have to look at some of the players in the lower leagues in england to see that. As for the other players you mentioned i didnt leave them out on purpose, just the first three that came into my head i mentioned. Do like Ndo, smashing footballer he would grace any team. Hoolahan I have always liked and is a smashing footballer. Im sure if i done a comparison player for player the eircom league with irish league the eircom league would have more quality players. The point the guy on the cis thread was making was that most teams would be technically better than Linfield, which is crazy. Linfield player for player would be as strong as the shels or cork. Theyre just not as fit. Again this is my opinion.

Speranza

11/12/2005, 1:16 AM

Try to go and watch a few Stute matches a year and the standard is ****-poor.

The last Setanta cup was an anomaly and from skill to fitness to any other area you can think of teams in the 6 counties (apart from us ;) ) are poorer.

Mr A

11/12/2005, 1:20 AM

Last year in the Setanta cup showed that our preconceptions about our league being vastly superior to the North were sadly misplaced. The standard of football always tends to look **** poor when you aren't interested. The eL isn't as good as it thinks it is, which is sad, as in most cases it doesn't even think it's that good!

Drumcondra Red

11/12/2005, 7:35 AM

Well the Champions of both leagues met in Europe and we all know how that panned out!

Raheny Red

11/12/2005, 11:22 AM

SFC RED wrote:

You seem to have chosen very particular examples there, coincidentally leaving out some of the EL's most technically gifted players, Hoolahan, Heary, Ndo, Crawley, etc.

I think thats a typo. You obviously incorrectly spelt O'Neill.

Creepy Crawley is poo!!

As for the Champo's League and the Glens what a moment.

Royalblue in your opinion how much is Peter Thompson worth because he could be on the way to Shels since Jayo Byrne is going.

A face

11/12/2005, 12:15 PM

Is Hamilton better than Byrne in my honest opinion yes.

Better you say .... whats the story with his contract, how much is he going for ?? :p
He would be good cover for any eircom League club.

royalblue

11/12/2005, 12:45 PM

Well considering Peter Thompson isnt a fulltime professional, Linfield have a starting price of a quarter of a million, if he was professional you could easily double that, or even triple that. I have talked with a few of my mates who play in the championship in england and they know how good this kid is and what kinda money he would have fetched if he had of been english.

As for Gary Hamilton he is great player and I hope Linfield sign him up. But to be honest I think with the way the money sittuation is in our league you could get him for about 70.000 upwards which is buttons. But dont let the price fool you, this guy has got it all in abundance. His one main problem is his bad attitude.

Passive

11/12/2005, 2:42 PM

But did Linfield not beat your best in Shelbourne?

Yup, very funny it was too.

Linfield for the day, I'm Linfield for the day...

Raheny Red

11/12/2005, 4:36 PM

Passive wrote:

Yup, very funny it was too.

Linfield for the day, I'm Linfield for the day...

Well you were better off been Linfield for the day rather than the 10 or so Rovers fans who took position in the new stand.

They were certainly not Linfield for the day :D :D

pete

11/12/2005, 7:47 PM

Linfield are clearly the strongest IL side with Gelntoran just behind. NO strength in the rest of the league at all. I think Linfield have some quality players but wouldn't have the strength to compete in top 3 of eL over 33 games. Top eL sides wouldn't beat anyone 6 nil even if had 22 team league.

Shels are 3rd best team in the eL & beat Glens 6-2. I feel Setanta Cup will be won by eL side in 2006 but IL sides are much better than i thought before the 2005 cup.

royalblue

11/12/2005, 8:16 PM

Pete are you taking drugs! If Linfield were in eircom League and fulltime, trust me it would be you lot chasing them, not the other way around. They are still Irelands biggest team North and South. And they would have the money, supporters and the facilities to leave the rest of the league behind. It's only fulltime issue that is saving you lot from a whipping. And trust me no eircom team could cope with a fulltime Linfield.

KEEP DREAMING!!!

thejollyrodger

11/12/2005, 8:31 PM

lots and IF' and BUTs there royalblue.

The fact of the matter is that they arent full time pro/in the EL etc. They are inferior to Shelbourne F.C.

Were a massive club compared to some of those teams up north and we absolutely humiliated one of the best northern clubs in the Champions league qualifiers.

Raheny Red

11/12/2005, 8:35 PM

I think it's time to take off the tinted goggles Royalblue!!

Roverstillidie

11/12/2005, 9:18 PM

Pete are you taking drugs! If Linfield where in Eircom league and fulltime, trust me it would be you lot chasing them, not the other way around. They are still Irelands biggest team North and South. And they would have the money, supporters and the facilities to leave the rest of the league behind. It's only fulltime issue that is saving you lot from a whipping. And trust me no eircom team could cope with a fulltime Linfield.

KEEP DREAMING!!!

so why arent they fulltime?

facilities yes. money and support? dont know about that.

if rovers hadnt lost milltown we would be bigger again. we could do this all day.....

linfiels and glens would be top half in the EL. the rest of the IL wouldnt. its that simple.

A face

11/12/2005, 9:30 PM

R�iteoir

12/12/2005, 12:25 AM

Well the Champions of both leagues met in Europe and we all know how that panned out!

and correct me if I'm not too much mistaken - in the biggest Continental club competition that UEFA run?

Raheny Red

12/12/2005, 7:53 AM

Originally Posted by Drumcondra Red
Well the Champions of both leagues met in Europe and we all know how that panned out!

And it couldn't have been more convincing!!

Macy

12/12/2005, 8:17 AM

Well the Setanta cup wont be a measure of it this year anyway .... if an IL side doesn't walk away with it this year, they never will .... its starting slap bang in the middle of our off-season, eL clubs mightn't even get it the proper respect it deserves this time round because IL teams are practically being gifted it starting it so early.
I think this is a point that is often over looked even with last season. IL hitting it's climax, and we were only starting off. Despite that we, a part time team, managed to beat the top 2 and drew over 2 legs with them.

Arguing about if's and buts about full time is irrelevant. Besides which, many of the star part time players up north are earning on a par (or in many cases greater) than the top full time wages here.

Pablo

12/12/2005, 8:43 AM

i've been to a few games up north and all i can say is the football is different!

A lot of long ball stuff, which is hardly gonna attract people through the turnstiles. We won the league playing football and long may it continue.

As for Linfield being the biggest club in Ireland.............we all know who that title belongs to :D

pete

12/12/2005, 9:09 AM

Until Linfield are fulltime we won't know what they could be like.

Linfield lost to Halmstad who i think finished 8th or something in Swedish league.
Cork City beat Djungardens who who the Swedish League.

I think the IL should be higher in the European rankings but so should the eL. I;d say IL should be inside top 40 but eL teams should beat anyone in the outside the top 30 now.

daveh

12/12/2005, 9:42 AM

I usually watch the highlights of the IL on bbc1 most saturdays and apart from linfield,glentoran and to a lesser extent portadown,the standard looks a bit poorer than the eircom league imo

Linfield have really impressed me though when ive seen them,that thompson fella is class but overall I think city would beat them maybe 1-0 all things being equal,would be very tough match though

Just a question for the linfield lads,why are ye using shels as the benchmark for the eircom league when us and derry have been far superior this season?

pete

12/12/2005, 9:58 AM

Just a question for the linfield lads,why are ye using shels as the benchmark for the eircom league when us and derry have been far superior this season?

Yeah if using Shels should be matching them against Portadown...

Peadar

12/12/2005, 9:59 AM

Did anyone see that Cup game at the weekend?
Brutal stuff!

Linfield running away with the league with Glentoran the only decent challenger in sight.
Says it all really.

Peadar

12/12/2005, 10:05 AM

If Linfield were in eircom League and fulltime...

It's only fulltime issue that is saving you lot from a whipping.

If you've got so much money, so many supporters and are so great, then why aren't you full time?

It's very obvious that many people up there are in their own little dream world, but the reality is that we have better teams and play in a better league. The UEFA coefficients clearly show that.

Everyone knows that the Setanta Cup is scheduled to start in our off season so as to give your pub outfits a fighting chance.

Fortuna1886

12/12/2005, 10:31 AM

Everyone knows that the Setanta Cup is scheduled to start in our off season so as to give your pub outfits a fighting chance.

I like your style, Get the excuses in first.;)

For last years final we where at the end of a very long hard season, part-timers dont forget, Shels where about 10-12 games in and a very professional pre season, well compared to rhe shambles up here.

If I had the choice I'd rather have been in Shels position going into the Final.

For what its worth I do belive there is more strength in depth down there but to say Linfield couldn't compete in the top 3 in the LOI is delusional.

Peadar

12/12/2005, 10:51 AM

but to say Linfield couldn't compete in the top 3 in the LOI is delusional.

Sure if Sligo went professional they could compete in the top 3 of the eL.
It's all conjecture and hearsay!
Why can't we stick to the facts?

By the way, Shels couldn't beat Derry or Cork City during this league campaign. It's not Shels you have to worry about. ;)

Macy

12/12/2005, 10:57 AM

If I had the choice I'd rather have been in Shels position going into the Final.
What playing muck in their poorest season for years?

daveh

12/12/2005, 10:57 AM

For what its worth I do belive there is more strength in depth down there but to say Linfield couldn't compete in the top 3 in the LOI is delusional.

They could compete alright but they wouldnt win out in the end,no point blamin it on being part-time cos if ye wanted to improve in europe and in a general sense ye would be fulltime already

Linfield were always the biggest club along with rovers both north and south so they had more of an oppurtunity to go professional than most other clubs, but they didnt,why?

EnDai

12/12/2005, 10:59 AM

Yeah if using Shels should be matching them against Portadown...
Speaking of matching Portadown... :rolleyes:

Too many ifs and buts int his thread, I'm just going to say that if Kilkenny City had a team compromised of the Worlds best XI, a load of support, and neverending resources, then maybe one day they could challenge for the league title.

pete

12/12/2005, 11:06 AM

I think Linfield surprised most people in last years Setanta Cup final & they were worthy winners. However i think too much moaning by some IL sides in the Setanta Cup moaning about big fulltime eL sides when Longford were just as part-time as the IL sides.

ThatGuy

12/12/2005, 11:07 AM

It's a bit of a ridiculous thread to be honest. There is no way of knowing.

Linfield won the Setanta Cup anyway so Eircom League clubs can't really be gloating. The EL is hardly the Premiership or Serie A anyway.

Peadar

12/12/2005, 11:35 AM

Linfield won the Setanta Cup anyway so Eircom League clubs can't really be gloating.

Clubs who aren't in the Setanta Cup and never have been have no grounds to gloat about anything anyway.

Dricky

12/12/2005, 11:48 AM

sonofstan

12/12/2005, 1:17 PM

Shels are history.
it gives me no pleasure saying this, but i think shels will win the league next year. hope i'm wrong, but they were the strongest team for the last half of the season, and they've a stronger squad than either of the cities. even if Jayo goes, crowe and o'neill will come good for them.

daveh

12/12/2005, 1:28 PM

they might have had a great run at the end of the season but so did city last season and we got to within 3 points of them that year,there was a lot more pressure on city and derry compared to shels aswell

royalblue

12/12/2005, 2:30 PM

I honestly think some people on this forum are radio rental. To say Northern Teams are pub teams is the biggest joke ever. How many trophies have cork, shels, bohs, rovers and derry won in their history. Take a look at Linfield and Glentorans trophy collection!

As for the reason Linfield are not a professional setup just ask the IFA. In the early eighties Linfield had a discussion with the IFA about fulltime football and the IFA told them that they would kill local football if they went fulltime.

Thats why for many years our local papers would print stories on Linfield maybe applying to join the Scotish League/ English League. But that was never going to happen.

Also Linfield just cant decide to go professional, they need the rest of the league or atleast a few of the other clubs to bridge the already big gap in finances and stadia. For a team to improve and for the league to improve you need to have a competitive league both football wise and financially. Even Chelsea are proving this, they are leaving the rest behind.

Sure the goverment has promised the league a first payment of 8 million to improve stadia and meet some debts. We still are waiting for that money, will it ever come to all who need it, who knows. We need to get the IFA's backing first and then we can begin to look at all the options, we also need to bring local buisnesses on board for financial backing.

I mean some of our players up north are getting buttons. A lot of our top players actually get more money in their place of work than they would at their club. Certain teams just couldnt pay good wages, so why would you want to go fulltime as a player and actually earn less money. I know I wouldnt give up my career for a lesser paid one unless I had no option. Or I knew that it would benefit me more in the long run.

We would need certain communties to back their local team or teams (and thats also a problem to many teams). Money would also have to come from TV and advertising. Our product is badly sold here.

The other problem up here is the lack of good stadia for familys to attend, if we can improve on these things then the crowds will come back.

I mean your crowds are not massive, thats forsure!!!

The North has always had bigger crowds than our southern counterparts, only in recent years has our crowds fallen away. And yours are not exactly growing are they.

But then you will get all the corkers saying "royalblue;we have big crowds" And ill answer "thats because cork city is miles away from any other form of human life."

Remember the future is bright, the future is Linfield!!!