Views on Roy Keane becoming the next manager.

[NeilMcD]

What are peoples views on Roy Keane to be the next manager. Hopefully this thread can be discussed rationally and not be hi-jacked by club loyalties etc. We are discussing the possibilty of him becoming the manager. He has the same merits for the job as Staunton, (some would argue more). The FAI would be following a route that the Welsh, German and Dutch football Associations have taken in recent times.


I do think that he would be ahead of Staunton McAteer in that he does have numerous coaching badges and has shown leadership on and off the field at Man Utd for 12 and half years. There are lots of negatives too. But he seemed to fit in with the recent squad and the likes of Duff Keane, Morrisson Dunne, Cunningham and Reid were full of praise for him. ANyway what are peoples views on this.

[mandrake]

liverpool are best wey hey....ah only joking

i think he would be good for the job, but as i said earlier i think he wants to play on , he is like an explayer so i can see the wales/germany link, i would rather see him than a ex england manager just coming think ing he wil be another jack chartlon, dont know about the delaney/manu/fergie/keane rleationship, like has delaney any weight with them, dont think he will take it.

[klein4]

i think a comparison with Cruyff being made Ajax coach in the 80s when he had no badges or experience is more relevant to compare him with than MacAteer and Stauntan who are two journeymen ex pros .....he is just a legend in Ireland terms..
I have no idea if he would make a good manager to be honest...but he would seem to have a very clear idea of how he wants football played and how he wants things done...deffo think he has as much claim to the job of anyone else linked to it apart from martin o neill. imo.

[OwlsFan]

So we just sweep Saipan, his premature retirement for playing for his country, failure to travel to Iran for a vital play off game, his failure "to do friendlies" (his words) etc under the carpet ? There is a very large proportion of Irish supporters who will not forgive him for these things.

In the words of Ian Paisley: "Never, never, never".

From a purely technical point of view, what advantage would he have over the likes of John Aldridge who has experience as a manager ?

[klein4]

So we just sweep Saipan, his premature retirement for playing for his country, failure to travel to Iran for a vital play off game, his failure "to do friendlies" (his words) etc under the carpet ?


eh yes to be honest.
are you really still hung up on all that?
its irrelevant.

[PaulB]

From a purely technical point of view, what advantage would he have over the likes of John Aldridge who has experience as a manager ?

Can't belive you asked such a question. What did Aldo do as a manager, a have decent cup run? Like him or nor Keane knows the game, can read the game as well as anyone, and is hugely respected by players, not sure also could say the same.

[tricky_colour]

He 8-1 on Paddy Power in from about 60-1

[NeilMcD]

So we just sweep Saipan, his premature retirement for playing for his country, failure to travel to Iran for a vital play off game, his failure "to do friendlies" (his words) etc under the carpet ? There is a very large proportion of Irish supporters who will not forgive him for these things.

In the words of Ian Paisley: "Never, never, never".

From a purely technical point of view, what advantage would he have over the likes of John Aldridge who has experience as a manager ?


I understand your concerns. I do think that appointing him would be unpopular with a large minority of Irish fans.

Just one point tough he was injured for the Iran game. He played through the injury barrier for the home match and then it was too much of a risk for the 2nd leg, seems fair enough to me.

[Hither green]

eh yes to be honest.
are you really still hung up on all that?
its irrelevant.

I'm still hung up on Saipan actually, will never forgive him for that. Fortunately I have a cr@p memory so am quite willing to try to forget.

Of the current crop of candidates - mostly inexperienced or hasbeens - he's probably the best.

[Lionel Ritchie]

i think a comparison with Cruyff being made Ajax coach in the 80s when he had no badges or experience is more relevant to compare him with than MacAteer and Stauntan who are two journeymen ex pros .....he is just a legend in Ireland terms..
I have no idea if he would make a good manager to be honest...but he would seem to have a very clear idea of how he wants football played and how he wants things done...deffo think he has as much claim to the job of anyone else linked to it apart from martin o neill. imo.

Klein -you should really pick your comparisons a little more carefully -Stan has not far off twice as many caps as Roy. Journeyman pro? don't be ridiculous.
Two stints with both Liverpool and Villa doesn't make you a journeyman. he was well into his thirties when he went to Coventry and is following a well worn path of dropping the divisions as he winds down his playing days and gets some coaching experience. So that's what ...4 clubs in a 20 year career.

If you must bandy about tired meaningless terms like "legend" to build Roy up -well fine -but try not to put down others who gave distinguished service just to create counterpoint.

[Marked Man]

How could he, with a straight face, ask big players to come to Dublin for friendlies?
Or insist that they accept that the manager is the one who calls the shots?

[pineapple stu]

Can't belive you asked such a question. What did Aldo do as a manager, a have decent cup run? Like him or nor Keane knows the game, can read the game as well as anyone, and is hugely respected by players, not sure also could say the same.
Can't believe you made such a comment. Are you implying that Aldridge doesn't know the game?! This is the player who has scored more goals in English league football than anyone ever since the war - despite spending two years in Spain - and you're questioning his knowledge of the game?!

Personally, I would rule Keane out for the reason I'd rule Staunton out - no managerial experience. From what he's been saying over the past couple of months, he wants one more season playing, so would be a no-go for the job this time around.

[finlma]

Klinsmann is doing the job with Germany and Hughes did a good job at Wales.

I'd prefer Keane over anyone except MON or Georgre Burley. He'd certainly give it his all. We don't have a lot to loose - we're odds on not to qualify for a major tournament for a long time so its worth the risk in my view.
Better than El Tel anyway - he better not get the job.

[pineapple stu]

Klinsmann is doing the job with Germany
Is he? He's getting a lot of stick now in Germany.

[PaulB]

Can't believe you made such a comment. Are you implying that Aldridge doesn't know the game?! This is the player who has scored more goals in English league football than anyone ever since the war - despite spending two years in Spain - and you're questioning his knowledge of the game?!

Personally, I would rule Keane out for the reason I'd rule Staunton out - no managerial experience. From what he's been saying over the past couple of months, he wants one more season playing, so would be a no-go for the job this time around.

No, I was just questioning his credentials as a manager, loved him as a player, but don't rate him as a manager, and I agree I don't think it's time for Keane either

[mandrake]

So we just sweep Saipan, his premature retirement for playing for his country, failure to travel to Iran for a vital play off game, his failure "to do friendlies" (his words) etc under the carpet ? There is a very large proportion of Irish supporters who will not forgive him for these things.

In the words of Ian Paisley: "Never, never, never".

From a purely technical point of view, what advantage would he have over the likes of John Aldridge who has experience as a manager ?

i believe ian paisley meeting bertie today...20 years after saying never never never.........

never say never.

[klein4]

every time stauntans name was read out at lansdowne before the 2002 world cup it was to audible graoans. he had a cracker of a finals but before that he was in decline for a long time.
maybe journeyman pro was a bit harsh in stauntans case I accept that.
but people who "will never forgive saipan" seem to suffer memory loss when it comes to stauntan. ask any liverpool fan how good he was for them during his second stint....(altho do it in the other forum)
keane was a legend for ireland in terms of performances and in terms of his club success. thats what I mean when I put him above MacAteer and Stauntan and compare him with Cruyffs situation in regards his standing in holland and keanes in Ireland. I wasnt sayin he was up there with cruyff in terms of ability.

[Karlos]

I do think that he would be ahead of Staunton McAteer in that he does have numerous coaching badges and has shown leadership on and off the field at Man Utd for 12 and half years. There are lots of negatives too. But he seemed to fit in with the recent squad and the likes of Duff Keane, Morrisson Dunne, Cunningham and Reid were full of praise for him. ANyway what are peoples views on this.

Bad, Bad Idea.

he is not more qualified than either Staunton or Aldridge. He does not have more coaching badges either - Aldridge has the Uefa Pro Licence, Keane hasn't even started that yet and Staunton has more coaching experience at Uefa A level as far as I know. So to put it simply you could argue all you want but he is NOT more qualified than either those two or indeed MoN, Venables, Hiddink etc etc......its a no-brainer.

If we are to give this job based on qualifications to actually do the job then Roy is way way down that list. Do we suddenly just forget that we want a qualified coach, now that Roy is available - if ALdridge and Staunton aren't good enough for people then neither is Roy....simple! ffs, even big Frank Stapelton is more qualified for the job than Roy. Would be a ridicuolous move for Irish football merely to appease the fans that don't know any better.

Needless to say it should be pointed out that Hughes, Klinnsman & Voller had all completed their UEFA pro licence before being appointed to their managerial positions.

I want an experienced and fully qualified coach. If we are going to appoint half qualified coaches then I may as well throw my hat into the ring now!!!

[Karlos]

keane was a legend for ireland in terms of performances and in terms of his club success. thats what I mean when I put him above MacAteer and Stauntan and compare him with Cruyffs situation in regards his standing in holland and keanes in Ireland. I wasnt sayin he was up there with cruyff in terms of ability.

Well on this basis the job should witout doubt go to Brady. Our most talented/skillful player ever, legend for all his clubs including experience playing in a foreign league plus proven track record developing youth players and as many qualifications as the top european managers just like Johann. I think Brady is more akin to Cryuff than Roy in playing, reputation and coaching ability. :rolleyes:

If the Cryuff selection method is used then it won't be Roy in charge. :)

[NeilMcD]

Is there a source where you can find out who has what badges etc.

[NeilMcD]

Bad, Bad Idea.

he is not more qualified than either Staunton or Aldridge. He does not have more coaching badges either - Aldridge has the Uefa Pro Licence, Keane hasn't even started that yet and Staunton has more coaching experience at Uefa A level as far as I know. So to put it simply you could argue all you want but he is NOT more qualified than either those two or indeed MoN, Venables, Hiddink etc etc......its a no-brainer.

If we are to give this job based on qualifications to actually do the job then Roy is way way down that list. Do we suddenly just forget that we want a qualified coach, now that Roy is available - if ALdridge and Staunton aren't good enough for people then neither is Roy....simple! ffs, even big Frank Stapelton is more qualified for the job than Roy. Would be a ridicuolous move for Irish football merely to appease the fans that don't know any better.

Needless to say it should be pointed out that Hughes, Klinnsman & Voller had all completed their UEFA pro licence before being appointed to their managerial positions.

I want an experienced and fully qualified coach. If we are going to appoint half qualified coaches then I may as well throw my hat into the ring now!!!


You misquoted me there, I did not mention Aldridge I mentioned Mc Ateer and Staunton. I was under the impression that he had more badges that Staunton but no 100% on this.

[Schumi]

He has the same merits for the job as Staunton
My view exactly.

[Karlos]

Is there a source where you can find out who has what badges etc.


there may well be......i know what level some of them are at from articles in the Insight Live Coaching magazine from the English FA as well as some of them being present at coaching conferences. Aldridge and Brady, I've met at two separate coaching conferences and Staunton was interviewed re: his coaching qualifications recently. As far as I'm aware, you cannot gain the uefa pro licence while still playing or managing....it takes up to a year and can be done while coaching (see Tony Adams at Feynoord as an example or Shearer at Newcastle next year). You can however do all the preliminery licences which almost all the pros who want them have as they get excemptions from parts of the courses

[Karlos]

You misquoted me there, I did not mention Aldridge I mentioned Mc Ateer and Staunton. I was under the impression that he had more badges that Staunton but no 100% on this.

Apologies, must have picked up Aldridge from another post. :o

I heard McAteer state recently that he's completing his coaching badges and Staunton has already done so. THe fact still remains, Roy is no more qualified than any of these, I can't find a reasonable argument why he should get it over any of them and i'll add the likes of Brady, Stapelton and Whelan to that list. :)

[Stuttgart88]

Very busy at work Neil so will give you my thoughts on this later.

I think Steven Reid said that Keane would be the dressing room's choice though.

[klein4]

Well on this basis the job should witout doubt go to Brady. Our most talented/skillful player ever, legend for all his clubs including experience playing in a foreign league plus proven track record developing youth players and as many qualifications as the top european managers just like Johann. I think Brady is more akin to Cryuff than Roy in playing, reputation and coaching ability. :rolleyes:

If the Cryuff selection method is used then it won't be Roy in charge. :)

how simple are you?
cruyff selection method????? what are you on about...
I was comparing two similar situations. cruyff got the job on his name alone and he turned out to be a very good manager. there was a lot of talk at the time that he shouldnt have got it due to lack of experience and no coaching badges. in fact if i remember correctly he technically wasnt allowed to be even called the manager. he also refused to go the world cup in 78. that was the comparison.

nobody knows if keane is goin to be a good manger but he has been a far more successfull player than either staunton or macateer. he has been the captain of the most successfull english club side of the last few years. surely that counts for something when you are going to be leading a team???
brady is a legend but he has stated publically he doesnt want the job. and he wasnt a successful manager. and I am not sure how many if any arsenal players he has brought thru the system. they seemed to have bought a lot of the young lads they have at the mo but I am open to correction.

try thinking about something before you go slagging off someone elses post just for the sake of it.

and on another point...all this talk of coaching badges and who is more qualified to manage....how many qualifications did Shankly,Clough, Paisley ,Stein or Ferguson have?????

As I said before I just wouldnt be inspired by any of the names linked with the job apart from O Neill. But of the rest I think Keane has as much right to be given his chance than any of them.

[Fergie's Son]

Very busy at work Neil so will give you my thoughts on this later.

I think Steven Reid said that Keane would be the dressing room's choice though.

I'm surprised to hear that. My initial reaction would be no. Keane has just fallen out with another coach and basically walked away from a 5m testimonial...doesn't speak volumes about his judgment.

[Karlos]

how simple are you?
cruyff selection method????? what are you on about...
I was comparing two similar situations. cruyff got the job on his name alone and he turned out to be a very good manager. there was a lot of talk at the time that he shouldnt have got it due to lack of experience and no coaching badges. in fact if i remember correctly he technically wasnt allowed to be even called the manager. he also refused to go the world cup in 78. that was the comparison. .and on another point...all this talk of coaching badges and who is more qualified to manage....how many qualifications did Shankly,Clough, Paisley ,Stein or Ferguson have?????

As you no doubt know in todays game you cannot appoint someone just because you think they might be good even if you want to. You cannot coach in most european countries today without having the appropriate licences. David Platt is a prime example of this. Yes Clough and Co didn't have coaching badges and where excellent coaches but where they coming into the game today they would have to have, that's the point. For every 3 or 4 successful coaches, there were 20 who came into the game, failed and left. THere'll always be exceptions, today you are guaranteed caoches of a certain calibre at all levels based on the licence system, the exceptional ones like Mourniho, Wenger, Le Guen will still always rise to the top and Ro might be one of them but he needs to do what's required and prove himself.


nobody knows if keane is goin to be a good manger but he has been a far more successfull player than either staunton or macateer. .

Well that depends on what you base success on? One could argue that Staunton has a far more respected professional than Roy. Yes, Roy won more trophies but Staunton played with all his heart from an early age right up until international retirement. He's got more international experience than roy and more games at league level. Aside from all that Roy has not been any more talented than the likes of Brady & Stapleton either imo - why not give one of them the job. Surely the argument FOR Roy stands FOR these people too.




brady is a legend but he has stated publically he doesnt want the job. and he wasnt a successful manager. and I am not sure how many if any arsenal players he has brought thru the system. they seemed to have bought a lot of the young lads they have at the mo but I am open to correction. .

Ok the fact is Brady doesn't want the job but is he as qualified as Roy? Yes, he is more qualified as is Venables, Hiddink, Troussier and even Aldridge. We are supposed to be looking for, a qualified experienced coach not a successful player that keeps some fans happy......

As for Brady, He's currently helped bring through, Matthew Upson, Jermanie Pennant, Jerome Thomas, Ashley Cole & Justn Hoyte - all playing premiership football. He helped Irish players in Graham Barrett & Graham Stack develop a career in proferssional football and is attempting the same now with 5 or 6 Irish youth lads under his helm including Anthony Stokes, Patrick Creagg etc etc. Not to mention being heavily involved with coaching the youth players signed at an young age, namely Fabregas, Clichy, Toure, Senderos,Alidiaierre curently all playing premiership football after time in the youth teams.


try thinking about something before you go slagging off someone elses post just for the sake of it..

Don't put out posts if you don't want them debated. I didn't make any personal attack on your post, i merely gave my opinion on it. How old are you? :rolleyes:

[klein4]

regards the first point you make that was why I made the cruyff comparison.
in holland at the time you werent allowed to coach without the proper qualifications. Ajax took a chance and it paid off. Making Keane Ireland manager would be a similar situation. Putting more faith an unproven manager because of playing ability. As for the licencing system....do you think Paul Sturrock has more right to manage Ireland than Keane? Because he is more qualified?
"Staunton is a far more respected proffesional than Keane"? I think that is fairly hard to prove either way. As I said before I didnt really think Staunton played well for Ireland for a long time. The world Cup performance proving only what a great player he should have been rather than he was. And yes some people might measure success in terms of actual trophies won...Would you rather a manger that won things or a manger that was well respected by his peers?
yes brady was a great player. no doubt but he doesnt want the job and his managerial record is flawed. Personally I dont think stapleton is even in the same league as Keane or Brady. but he wasnt a very successful manager either. so that is why I would discount both of them. Keane hasnt been a successful manager yet but he also hasnt been unsuccessful yet either.

[geysir]

cruyff selection method????? what are you on about...
I was comparing two similar situations. cruyff got the job on his name alone and he turned out to be a very good manager. there was a lot of talk at the time that he shouldnt have got it due to lack of experience and no coaching badges. in fact if i remember correctly he technically wasnt allowed to be even called the manager. he also refused to go the world cup in 78. that was the comparison.
You have your facts twisted there about Johann Cruyff.

I would just like to point out that Van Basten has not yet proved himself yet to be a successful Dutch Manager. If Holland get to the final after p!ssing on Germany along the way then he might escape criticism. So far the praise he deserves is for bringing in new players. Getting to the finals past a weakend Czech team was only to be expected.
Klinsmann's test has yet to come.
Other examples of brilliant players going straight into national manager role, Stoichov for Bulgaria and Hagi for Romania. Neither stopped the lights.
I haven't really an opinion on Keane for manager except I don't know.
We do now know that prepare all you want does not alone translate into a winning team.
Personally my favorite manager in Europe is the Italian Marcello Lippi.
My ideal candidate for Ireland has a past record and a future:)

[BobbySands]

At this point even the FAI must realise they made a mistake getting rid of Kerr when they did. The only credible option, O'Neill, does not seem to be interested and the likes of El Tel etc are a joke. With this in mind I think they might go for Keane. It will quieten those who say the FAI have learnt nothing over the years. If it were a failure they could throw out the cliches about a legend, loyal servant (sure) etc and say he deserved his chance. The fact that chants of Keano seem to break out spontaneously at every gathering of Irish people whether its at a Boyzone concert or or Landsdowne proves the great unwashed believe Roy has been sufficiently rehabilitated so I think he'd be somewhat the most popular chance. If he's a success everyones happy.

[Karlos]

Ajax took a chance and it paid off. Making Keane Ireland manager would be a similar situation. Putting more faith an unproven manager because of playing ability. As for the licencing system....do you think Paul Sturrock has more right to manage Ireland than Keane? Because he is more qualified? .

Now your just being ridiculous.......It's not about who has the right, it's about who is qualified and has the experience to do the job and succeed (and least we not forget that's what it is, a job). However, If you are asking me who is more qualified coach with experience in the game to the job as it stands then the answer would be Paul Sturrock. THat doesn't mean I think he should get it but fact remains he is more qualfied and has more experience for the job.

If I'm in work and sitting on a interview board for a managerial position in a paper folding factory, I will always choose the most qualified person with the most experience of doing this job and who has an understanding of what the job requires than the person who can fold the most paper in an hour, who all our customers will love and might one day work out as a manager.

No matter who we appoint it will be a risk, However, I would much prefer to see the FAI make a caluculated educated risk by hiring someone with managerial experience and qualifications than being a crowd pleaser for hordes of fans, even if that means hiring a non-irish coach.

you also seem to have some distain for the licence sytem. When you look at people who progressed through the system it shows it works. Wenger, Mourniho, Le Guen, Coleman, Curbishley, Allerdyce, Sammy Lee (the list goes on) all with little and in some cases no success at all as a player came through to become well respected coaches/managers thanks to development opportunities that arose on the basis of being fully qualified licence holders . you can see why it is a vital tool to those who haven't played the game or won all the trophies available.

I've been on coaching courses with some excellent ex-pros and EL players and trust me, being a good player doesn't neseccarily mean you are a good coach or have the vision and insight to understand what is going on. It's a massive risk to take, one I'd rather our organisation didn't take.


And yes some people might measure success in terms of actual trophies won...Would you rather a manger that won things or a manger that was well respected by his peers?
yes brady was a great player. no doubt but he doesnt want the job and his managerial record is flawed. Personally I dont think stapleton is even in the same league as Keane or Brady. but he wasnt a very successful manager either. so that is why I would discount both of them. Keane hasnt been a successful manager yet but he also hasnt been unsuccessful yet either.

I want a manager not who only wins but develops & improves (we've been here before!)the team. A direct result of developing & improving is winning - if we want to be successful not just now but into the future we need a good technical & tactical coach. In this regard I don't think Stan, Aldo or Roy are able to give us what we need. I do not judge success solely on winning (although acknowledge that at the top end of management it's very important). One of my main critiscms of Kerr's reign is that I feel we did not progress as a team during his time regardless of the results .

The fact remains, I've yet to see any credential that would entitle Roy to get the job ahead of any of the other prospective managers. He has as much chance as anyone else to get it but he is NOT more qualified or more entitled to the job than anyone else. If Aldo and Stan aren't good enough (and i believe that,) then neither is Roy.

[Karlos]

Personally my favorite manager in Europe is the Italian Marcello Lippi.
My ideal candidate for Ireland has a past record and a future:)

Indeed, Lippi is a very knowledgable coach. I've got a really good interview article with him somewhere on his coaching philosophy (can dig it out for you if you want). Definetly an honours student of the game. :)

[klein4]

I cant see lippi or anyone of his calibre becoming ireland manager, can you?????
if i havent got the facts about cruyff totally correct then I apologise. I am tryin to recall something from 20 years ago.

ask any ireland fans would they prefer sturrock to Keane as he has more coaching qualifications and see what the response would be. Of course I dont think you or anyone else wants paul sturrock as manger(please god) But I was just pointing out that basing it solely on relevant qualifications can be a misleading route to take.
keane has shown leadership qualities at the top end of the game so I think that is why he should be considered for the ireland job given the other names being touted for the job.

"If I'm in work and sitting on a interview board for a managerial position in a paper folding factory, I will always choose the most qualified person with the most experience of doing this job and who has an understanding of what the job requires than the person who can fold the most paper in an hour, who all our customers will love and might one day work out as a manager"

without going into the ins and outs of the paper folding industry.... come on now its not really the same as football is it?....(..can you even get paper folding qualifications??) many successful businessmen have been abject failures at running football clubs(and for that matter many successful businessmen have acheived that success without any qualifications)....and of course it could be argued that keane has played for two of the greatest managers in football history...so surely that would count for something? he would have picked up things from these two that no course could teach him...
He seems to be an intelligent bloke with a clear idea of how he feels the game should be played. I have never got that impression from staunton.

I agree with you we shouldnt be looking to take a chance on someone for the top job in football in this country but I just dont see any alternatives that would be a) good enough and b) have any real feeling for Irish football.

I think a lot of the anti keane thing comes from people who hate man u and see him as the embodiement of that club and let that colour all thinking on him.thats the way I always see it anyway. he was a great player for ireland and thats the be all and end all as far as I am concerned. I dont take anything from saipan other than macarthy and keane didnt get on. and that would have been the case anywhere....even in the paper folding factory.....

[sligoman]

What are peoples views on Roy Keane to be the next manager.Sign him up FAI, sign him up NOW!:cool:

[Karlos]

ask any ireland fans would they prefer sturrock to Keane as he has more coaching qualifications and see what the response would be. Of course I dont think you or anyone else wants paul sturrock as manger(please god) But I was just pointing out that basing it solely on relevant qualifications can be a misleading route to take. ..... Yes, it would be misleading to base the hiring on qualifications alone but not half as misleading as basing it on being a good player only......there's a list as long as my arm of great players who didn't cut it and I'd be hugely disappointed if we hire someone based on the fact he was a good player but might be a rubbish manager, and that goes for all of them, not just Roy.



keane has shown leadership qualities at the top end of the game so I think that is why he should be considered for the ireland job given the other names being touted for the job. ..... I'm not trying to be smart but people on here have sneered at the thoughts of Bryan Robson looking for the job but would accept Keane based on his potential and previous good leadership skills. Robson himself was an inspirational player and captain and was the one that lead Utd out of it's doldrums to finally win a league championship and captained his country. Coupled with his experience in management, you would think he'd be a perfect choice. Just a thought, what's good for the goose should be good for the gander, no. Yes Keane should be considered but if people think Aldo and Stan aren't good enough then simply neither is Keane.....I still haven't been convinced of what extra qualities he would bring over these people? For what it's worth, Robson is not the man for me either.




without going into the ins and outs of the paper folding industry.... come on now its not really the same as football is it?....(..can you even get paper folding qualifications??) many successful businessmen have been abject failures at running football clubs(and for that matter many successful businessmen have acheived that success without any qualifications)....and of course it could be argued that keane has played for two of the greatest managers in football history...so surely that would count for something? he would have picked up things from these two that no course could teach him...
He seems to be an intelligent bloke with a clear idea of how he feels the game should be played. I have never got that impression from staunton......

i was actually referring to a qualification in management not folding paper, but you know what I meant. :)

THe thing I find difficult with your view is that it's based on assumptions....assumptions that Keane picked up managerial skills from Fergie and Clough (which he may or may not have done?) - did he pick up the fundamentals of changing a formation mid way through a game, does he understand how to motivate without imtimidating? How would he handle a player like himself, questioning every discision? All unclear. Your argument against Staunton is based on an impression you don't get, again it's an assumption. Maybe Stan is far more intelligent bloke with more tactical sence. For me I can't fathom how you can choose one over the other based on assumptions and guesswork. For me, neither are ready for international management or have the experience required. Both would be as bad a choice as the other in my opinion.




I agree with you we shouldnt be looking to take a chance on someone for the top job in football in this country but I just dont see any alternatives that would be a) good enough and b) have any real feeling for Irish football......

I'm just interested to find out what you mean by good enough? In what way? Not good enough as a coach or they haven't won trophies as a player or what?? Define 'good enough' please :)

There's plently of good coaches out there, there's just not a lot that the fans like. There's also no rush on this, no need to panic just yet. I really hope we don't make an appointment however justto keep the fans happy, that could be diasterous.
As for a feeling for Irish Footie, well we had one of those and it didn't work out. We need a manager that will improve and develop this team and our youth teams without trying to keep people happy. I don't care where his feelings lie, it's a job and if it's done properly it will improve football in this country.




I think a lot of the anti keane thing comes from people who hate man u and see him as the embodiement of that club and let that colour all thinking on him.thats the way I always see it anyway. he was a great player for ireland and thats the be all and end all as far as I am concerned. I dont take anything from saipan other than macarthy and keane didnt get on. and that would have been the case anywhere....even in the paper folding factory.....

Likewise I've noticed alot of the anti-staunton brigade dislike liverpool or hold Staunton's stance in the SAipan affair aginast him. all that is bull to be honest both were good players but I still can't be convinced either would be the right appointment however an appointment as an assistant or coach for either of them I would welcome.

[Roverstillidie]

any chance of a poll?
reding this i get the impression he would be about as popular as cancer.
and rightfully so.

[lopez]

Saipan who????:confused: :confused:

[geysir]

I cant see lippi or anyone of his calibre becoming ireland manager, can you?????
if i havent got the facts about cruyff totally correct then I apologise. I am tryin to recall something from 20 years ago.
No problem, the comment that Coach Cruyff was first chosen for his name did call for a suspension of disbelief. Here is a classic story from the pages of Ajax 1980.
http://www.degoeieouwetijd.nl/8011_wedstrijd_eng.htm

[klein4]

I personally dont have an anti staunton opinion. I just think there is a total revisionism at play when people say he was a great player. he wasnt. compare the feelings utd supporters are expressing about a well past his best keane leaving and see if liverpool or villa fans who actually saw him play look back on staunton in the same way. keane was a much more influential and much better player. I believe that to be fact. If you want to measure success in total intangibles then you of course will always be on to a winner.

"assumption" that keane picked up anything from these managers? he was only the captain of the most successful club in english football for the last few years. does that count for nothing as to how he was seen at this club? I think it is safe to assume he isnt an idiot in football terms. I find it hilarious that you quote your own coaching experience to lend weight to your argument yet you dismiss keanes football career as irrelevent. I have rarely heard an ex united player come out and criticise him. the majority come out with praise for him. When Beckham went to Madrid he made a point of praising keane in his leaving statement. why do you think that was?

"Define good enough?" name me one manager who is genuinely in the frame for the job who's recent managerial record isnt one of failure. Try and you might come to understand why some people think keane should be considered.

You speak about "fans" as if they are some great unwashed who god forbid we ever listen to.....(if only there was some sort of uefa fan licence to weed out the uneducated eh?....)

and I dont think it is the Ireland managers job to develop players
surely if they are considered good enough to play international football they are playing and have developed to a certain standard at their clubs anyway???????? or is it one rule for the manager and one for the players...

I cant believe you are so blinkered as to compare frank stapleton to keane...even franks mammy wouldnt be with you on that one....

[klein4]

No problem, the comment that Coach Cruyff was first chosen for his name did call for a suspension of disbelief. Here is a classic story from the pages of Ajax 1980.
http://www.degoeieouwetijd.nl/8011_wedstrijd_eng.htm

no I think he took over from them on his own a few years later....85? 86?..(i only glanced thru the article) I have a deffinite memory of it being debated on the saint & greavsie. I think they came to the conclusion that it was a funny old game.

[Marked Man]

[QUOTE=klein4]

ask any ireland fans would they prefer sturrock to Keane as he has more coaching qualifications and see what the response would be.

This Ireland fan would say Sturrock.
In fact, ABK.

[Superhoops]

Originally Posted by NeilMcD
What are peoples views on Roy Keane to be the next manager


Sign him up FAI, sign him up NOW!:cool:
Sign him up as what? Manager?
- No more friendlies cause I dont do friendlies
- I didnt pick Duff in case he gets injured and cant play for his club on Saturday
- I dont mind sitting in the back of the plane so that John O'Shea can have a first class seat
- When Robboe Keane comes into a players meeting and f**ks and blinds at me calling me a Cork cnut who only payed for Ireland when I felt like it, I will say 'Thanks Robbie, I value your opinion'

Yeah right, manage a team not until he can manage himself:mad: :mad:

[Karlos]

"assumption" that keane picked up anything from these managers? he was only the captain of the most successful club in english football for the last few years. does that count for nothing as to how he was seen at this club? I think it is safe to assume he isnt an idiot in football terms. I find it hilarious that you quote your own coaching experience to lend weight to your argument yet you dismiss keanes football career as irrelevent. I have rarely heard an ex united player come out and criticise him. the majority come out with praise for him. When Beckham went to Madrid he made a point of praising keane in his leaving statement. why do you think that was? .... Firstly I don't use my own coaching experience, I do however use my knowledge of the coaching system to try to understand what is required for someone to reach the top international manager level. you seem to think well it's roy, he's great, he was captain, he'll be brilliant....it's ridicuolous and two pages of posts have yet to give a valid argument as to why he's better than anything else out there. I operate on the lowest level of the coaching scale but I can appreciate the time and effort these top coaches put into these courses and qualifications. I don't think they should then be passed by on jobs by someone who might knows a lot becuase he was a captain in ENgland.....as I said if it's all about being a great player and captain, give the job to Bryan Robson - at least he's experienced and qualified or better still give it to Paddy Vieira, his experience of winning a world cup and european championship might prove vital for us! laughable.


"Define good enough?" name me one manager who is genuinely in the frame for the job who's recent managerial record isnt one of failure. Try and you might come to understand why some people think keane should be considered..... Again we come from different view points. It;'s all about records and results for you and not coaching ability. How many times have you seen good coaches fail in one position and do an excellent job in another. Are you honestly telling me that Roy Keane is more suitable for this position with zero experience than any of the expereinced managers mentioned....Venables, Hiddink, O'Neill, George Graham even kevin keegan. you can slag off records of people all you want but it doesn't change the fact they are more qualified and have more experience for the job and are more than capable of doing a good job with our limited resources.


You speak about "fans" as if they are some great unwashed who god forbid we ever listen to.....(if only there was some sort of uefa fan licence to weed out the uneducated eh?....)..... I don't know what you are trying to suggest here but whatever it is, it's petty and irrelvent. I stated that I hope the FAi don't try to make a majority of the fans happy by appointing a player with no experience into our managerial position just because he's Irish and that people will feel good about it. We need to make the right appointment, not one for the media and glory hunters to have a field day on. Fu*k this one up and we will be looking at half empty stadiums shortly.


and I dont think it is the Ireland managers job to develop players
surely if they are considered good enough to play international football they are playing and have developed to a certain standard at their clubs anyway???????? or is it one rule for the manager and one for the players...?....)..... So you want our next international manager to neglect anyone currently below the international level because they'll prove themselves with their club - u just want him to work with the team he has and not look to the future?? You don't want him to be involved with our youth international teams and try to have the same tactical setup right through our youth development system and make transition from youth to international level easier. It's not his responsibilty, great!! Enough said.....it's all about winning, records, captains and the senior team...shag the rest! And I'm blinkered.....!!!!!!!!! I'm done on this one, consider me out of the topic !:D :D

[Fergie's Son]

Sheesh, Karlos is administering an utter beating on Klein4. It's almost difficult to read.

[keenanboy]

No. I don't think that Keane is either ready or willing to go into international management as of yet. People are putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5 here. Him leaving Man Yoo is just coincidental, no need to get excited. The only place Roy is off to is a club within reasonable proximity to his home. Celtic looks most likely and he has in the past expressed a desire to wind up his career there.

I am a United fan but I am against giving the Ireland job to someone with no experience. In my own opinion if they are to do that then why sack Brian Kerr? They'll be replacing a manager with no or limited experience for another. The next manager will be critical in turning our fortunes around and its too big a risk. We need a proven track record for this one.

I do think that the FAI are in a bit of a fix at present though. Gus Hiddink would have been my own choice for the job but that door has now been shut with the Soceroos qualification. The FAI surely had him shortlisted and sadly it looks like its going to go to a third or fourth choice candidate, if even that.

[Closed Account 2]

Too risky IMO, he's a complete unknown in terms of coach. Also noone knows if he wants to play on for another few years (if so then I dont think him being manager is realistic), or if he is interested in being the coach. FAI should see if he wants some involvement in our youth team process or something, then we can see how he does at man-management.

Still think the best candidate is MON, if he becomes coach I can't see us not getting to Euro 2008, he is world class and the FAI should break the bank for him and let him work the hours he wants.

[Stuttgart88]

I still don't see how Hiddink is no longer available. He'll almost certainly not be involved with Australia come the end of June. Someone on this forum said he's not staying at PSV beyond next year either. Is that true?

I see no reason why negotiations with Hiddink couldn't begin now or in the new year.

Also, maybe I'm being naive, but if you scrutinise O'Neill's quotes he simply said he's not available for the foreseeable future. O'Neill is smart enough to know how vague that is.

On Keane, I've mixed views. My first instinct is that he'd just be too big a risk right now because of his volatile temperament which could cause clashes with his employers, his players & the media. But maybe if he was assisted by a trusted calming influence like Denis Irwin, who knows?

One of the key failings that the FAI identified in Kerr - the inability to see what changes are required during the course of a game - is not guaranteed to be solved by appointing Keane. It could be that his experience as a player gives him this ability. I honestly don't know how well Keane can read a game from the dugout. None of us does yet.

I think Keane himself admits he's got a way to go to get to the level of coaching skill required.

I think a partial return to the irreverend attitude towards the opposition of Jack's & Mick's tenors is required to get the Irish competitive again. Recapturing team spirit is important. Could Keane promote this? I've no doubt Keane would be as meticulous as Kerr on the logistical side, one of Kerr's positive features.

I'd like to think an experienced coach like Hiddink or O'Neill, or A.N. Other will be appointed with people like Keane, Staunton etc. being in the frame next time around. You don't get the benefit of a honeymoon period in international football. 2 bad competitive results and that's it for another campaign.


I fear Delaney will opt for a well known but not necesarily talented candidate which is why a professional search firm could help - they might, just might, identify an outlier none of us would have considered. Like Celtic did with Janssen for example.

PS: any chance Keane's next move would be to Cork City, helping them towards the Champs League? Think of what it'd do to the profile of our domestic league.

I watched the second half in my local in NW London last night with a naff Race Night being blasted out on the big screen & PA. It was like a scene from Phoenix Nights! Well done City on their achievements on & off the pitch. Turners Cross last night was everything an eL atmosphere should be like. Unlucky Derry. Well done for making the league so interesting from afar.

[geysir]

no I think he took over from them on his own a few years later....85? 86?..(i only glanced thru the article) I have a deffinite memory of it being debated on the saint & greavsie. I think they came to the conclusion that it was a funny old game.
Its not about when he took over at Ajax its about that you wrote that he was hired only because of his big name.
if you read the article, Cruyff at the age of 28 was hired as a technical advisor to Ajax first team, he famously demonstrated his touchline leadership skills on that fateful day at Twente. He virtually took control over anything to do with tactics from then on.
By the time he retired from playing 1985 he had already demonstrated that he was a coach extraordinaire. Then you wrote that he was hired as a coach in 1985 because of his big name. I say the evidence points to that Cruyff had already demonstrated his ability in all the key areas to do with team managership his football acumen was without question.

[geysir]

On Keane, I've mixed views. My first instinct is that he'd just be too big a risk right now because of his volatile temperament which could cause clashes with his employers, his players & the media. But maybe if he was assisted by a trusted calming influence like Denis Irwin, who knows.
Have they not fallen out :)

I'd say that Keane has a year or two left at centre back. He feeds off/craves the supporters adulation.
Keane and Staunton both good managerial prospects but would I let them start off with the national team? I would hate to hear in the post match interview.
"its a different game from the touchline"
"its gonna take a while for me to know how to sort this mess out"