Views on Roy Keane becoming the next manager.

[Colbert Report]

Why would Roy even consider taking the job?

[klein4]

Sheesh, Karlos is administering an utter beating on Klein4. It's almost difficult to read.
yes utter beating.
I am a lone nut in thinking that keane is a more significant footballing figure than legends stapleton, staunton and macateer.
and I also must be a sham for not seeing some obscure Ajax game from back in the day as a "fateful day":D
as usual the little clique shouts anyone down who doesnt agree with them.

some people let their anti keane bias colour everything.....
I read somwhere that Saipan was like our Princess Di moment. As we all must look back like Niall Quinn and wonder did we all go mad over nuthin????
People who still think saipan is some major thing in their lives need to get out more.

but then when they do a coaching course and start having delusions about themselves what would you expect.....:rolleyes:

[Marked Man]

Picture this: Keane gets job, we make the play-offs for the Euros, Keane is unhappy with the FAI's travel plans, so he.... walks out, leaving us managerless for the playoffs.

Of course, that could never happen, Keane walking out on someone when he doesn't get what he wants....

[Karlos]

as usual the little clique shouts anyone down who doesnt agree with them.

but then when they do a coaching course and start having delusions about themselves what would you expect.....:rolleyes:

again you can't help but make a personal attack, petty in the extreme. :mad: Argue your point (if you can find a valid one!)

This little clique of one (i.e me!) doesn't take kindly to personal remarks......attack my post all day long if you want but grow up along the way. :mad:

[brine3]

Of course, that could never happen, Keane walking out on someone when he doesn't get what he wants....

He didn't walk out on Ireland. Mick's own press statement: "I've sent him home" I still don't understand which part of this sentence people have trouble understanding.

The BBC were at it today as well, claiming Roy walked out. Incredibly, they even played a bit of Mick's press conference but cut out the bit where he says he sent him home because it didn't suit their world view.

[NeilMcD]

Great discussion lads I am glad I posted up my question now. It has largely been kept away from personal or club comments which has to be good for the forum. I think its healthy when people can slaughter a post like Karlos has but not be dragged down to personal comments. I don't agree with every thing you say but at least it comes from a position of knowledge.

[tricky_colour]

Picture this: Keane gets job, we make the play-offs for the Euros, Keane is unhappy with the FAI's travel plans, so he.... walks out, leaving us managerless for the playoffs.

Of course, that could never happen, Keane walking out on someone when he doesn't get what he wants....


Wouldn't happen if he was arranging the travel plans though.

[Marked Man]

He didn't walk out on Ireland. Mick's own press statement: "I've sent him home" I still don't understand which part of this sentence people have trouble understanding.

The BBC were at it today as well, claiming Roy walked out. Incredibly, they even played a bit of Mick's press conference but cut out the bit where he says he sent him home because it didn't suit their world view.

He walked out first. Was persuaded to come back, and then was sent home after making his position untenable. When you remember that he walked out first, it does kind of make it seem like he didn't want to be there.

And, didn't he just walk out on Utd?

[The Stars]

I honestly hate Keane the footballer.This doesnt mean that I dont resect him though.
He speaks his mind is is not afraid to ruffle a few feathers.
This characteristic is what the next Ireland manager needs.Someone who can identify if a player isn't pulling his weight or who simply isn't up to the standard,and tell them where to go.
Simply put Give Keane the job and things will change for the better.

[OwlsFan]

This characteristic is what the next Ireland manager needs.Someone who can identify if a player isn't pulling his weight or who simply isn't up to the standard,and tell them where to go. Simply put Give Keane the job and things will change for the better.

That argument is so simplistic. It's as if every problem is solved by someone verbally assulting the person who isn't performing. In life I have found that encouragement succeeds far better than criticism. And we've seen how well Keane reacts to criticism - when Mick suggested to him he didn't do friendlies and avoided the Iran play off game, he almost lost his mind and wasn't one of the whole criticisms of the way Mick handled things was that he criticised Keane in front of the players. But it's ok for Keane to criticise his team mates on Man U TV. Hypocrite.

He doesn't deserve to be the Irish manager because (a) he's not qualified, (b) he's temprementally unsuited, (c) he turned his back on playing for his country and (d) he probably wouldn't want the job anyway.

[The Stars]

its simplistic because its that easy.for too long now the same gobshiners have been playing for Ireland,getting by with the fact that they play in england rather than ability or passion.Keane would clear out the squad,with the exception of 5 or six players,and the players would know that if they didn't pull their weight they would be out.Obviously qualifications are important but anyone can get coaching badges.

[Karlos]

Obviously qualifications are important but anyone can get coaching badges.

Final point on this (i know I said I'm done!!) but this statement isn't totoally true. Anyone could get a basic coaching course (and please do and don't stop there! ) but at the level we are talking about it's a different ball game (excuse the pun!)

not anyone can get the required coaching qualifications to become an international manager. you must have either achieved a certain level on previous coaching licences (which would include coaching experience) to progress or have had experience in professional football plus passed the less stringent prequalification courses. This is the point that people are missing, previous playing experience IS taken into consideration in the licencing system and exemptions are given from certain aspects of the qualification course that leads to the pro licence.

it takes time, it must be assessed by the issueing body usually over a period of 6 months to a year.......the failure rate on these courses is exceptionally high...and that goes from the UEFA B licence right up to the pro licence. It's valued as it takes commitment, time and effort to achieve - just like a degree would be accepted as a benchmark standard in business etc. Not everyone
with the qualification is a successful coach but you can guarantee that they will know more about the coaching aspects of the game technicaly and tactically than someone who hasn't got it. You can't pass it without knowing this stuff. They don't hand out the professional licences to every tom, dick and harry.

As Austin Powers would say......."And I'm spent!" :)

[tricky_colour]

Do the players have to have players badgers :confused: :rolleyes: :D

[Karlos]

I doubt half of them could spell the word 'badge'.......:)

on a more serious note, in modern football almost every player nowadays graduates from a trainee contract to a pro contract, usually from a school of excellence (Claire Fontaine in France or individual club schemes for example), if they have been successful. So no physical badges but yeah they are educated with regard to playing the game and how they can improve.

Those who don't learn anything about their required job, usually don't get contracts - same should apply for coaches and does thanks to the licence system!! ;)

apologies for veering off topic slightly although it is relevant to Mr. Keane's (and Stan's!) position re: qualifications for the job. :)

[geysir]

Is it so that if a national federation appoint a team manager and a team coach then both of them must have the pro license before they can take up their position?

[geysir]

I was listening to the Premiership on RTE tonight. (much much better without Dunphy)
There was a section of chat about Keane, predictable comments from Brady "indisciplined" "public comments" and Giles ("football is a cruel game") then it meandered to where should Keane go now, Brady said he thought Keane should be given the Irish job, its not as if there are a lot of candidates for the job'. My jaw hit the floor but this comment didn't appear to register with Bill and Bill moved on to the next q to ask Giles. I assume somebody screamed into his earpiece,'Get back to Liam and ask more' finally after 5 mins. Bill returned to Liam and said but Liam you did not think he should have been allowed to play for Ireland after Saipan ??
Liam replied smilingly 'but the Fai allowed him back to play so they can allow him to manage'. Giles appeared to be in agreement.

[Karlos]

Is it so that if a national federation appoint a team manager and a team coach then both of them must have the pro license before they can take up their position?


not sure exactly on this one, the manager must have it or it's equivilant but not sure on the 'coach' in the international game. In the Premier League you must have pro licence to coach (as manager or assistant) of a senior team - so every coach in the league has one eg. Wenger & Rice, Ferguson & Quiroz, Mourniho & Clarke, Allerdyce & Lee etc etc.....(In Germany, you need to complete a university course!!!:eek: )

However, the stipulation by FIFA may be different for the international game - assuming that it isn't for a minute, we would have been ok anyway in the past as Evans & Hughton both hold the qualification as far as I know.

I don't think you'd need it if you were serving as a stiker coach or a goalkeeping coach - UEFA A licence would probably suffice. At academy level I believe UEFA B is the minimum in the UK.

hope this helps - open to correction on any of this - this comes from what I read.

[Karlos]

http://www.uefa.com/uefa/Keytopics/kind=256/newsId=347604.html

just located this on the uefa website - it appears that this very issue was dicussed at the UEFA Coaching Symposium in....wait for it.......Dublin, 2 months ago!

From what I can make out, international coaches currently aren't required to have the pro licence (most countries demand it so I imagine this is in reference to some coaches working with weaker nations with little or no qualifications or liklihood to improve). The member associations have asked this to be included in the international game as is in the top european leagues.

It also appears Brian Kerr and Packie spoke about this very issue at the forum. I'd be stunned if the FAI go against what the top european nations suggest should be a requirement for all international coaches - our development plan is all aimed for the future, would we really take a step back for the sake of keeping people happy?? Having only being presented with this info 2 months ago it should be fresh in the mind!! I'm nearly sure however since full licencing came into effect, this has been the a minimum requirement in the recuitment process the FAI have used to hire our coaches (our last two both have it anyway).

As it stands, Roy & Stan could possibly be appointed as coach - still doesn't make me believe they have the experience or the qualifications to do it. If the man we hire couldn't get a job in any major european league, do we want him as our manager? Easy answer for me.

[Karlos]

http://www.uefa.com/magazine/news/Kind=128/newsId=349551.html

Here's another good article from the uefa site on player transition into coaching with input from recent pro licence holders, Petrescu, Neilson, Calderon & Boban. As you can see coach education is an integral part of the development of these coaches. The Pro Licence fullys equips players to deal with rigors of management and I still believe we should be looking for a coach with experience and this qualification.

I think Boban sums it up best - "You can't go immediately from the shoes of a footballer player to become a good coach. You need to gain experience, to be properly educated"


although maybe he just took a course and then lost the run of himself.......happens to the best of us!!! Chill, I'm just joking!!!:) :D :)

[klein4]

I think its healthy when people can slaughter a post like Karlos has but not be dragged down to personal comments. I don't agree with every thing you say but at least it comes from a position of knowledge.


Oh get a room boys PLEASE!!!!!!!!;) ;) ;)

[OwlsFan]

its simplistic because its that easy.for too long now the same gobshiners have been playing for Ireland,getting by with the fact that they play in england rather than ability or passion.Keane would clear out the squad,with the exception of 5 or six players,and the players would know that if they didn't pull their weight they would be out.Obviously qualifications are important but anyone can get coaching badges.

So he clears out 6 Premiership players and brings in what exactly ? And which 6 players in Kerr's squad are "govshiners" didn't pull their weight as opposed to just not being top class internationals and whom are you replacing them with and who says Keane will get the best out of them ? At least they played all the friendlies and didn't go off in a sulk for two years.

[Roverstillidie]

My tuppenceworth.

To be a successful manager, its often an advantage to not have been a top player. Cruyff is one of the few genuine world class players who turned into a world class manager.

Some of the worlds best managers never kicked a ball professionally: Wenger and Mourihino for example. In an Irish context take Kerr.

You need a number of attributes to be a successful gaffer. Intelligence, motivational skills, tactical knowledge, organisational skills, ability to crisis manage and charisma helps.

Two names mentioned are Klinsmann and Hughes in the Keane (or Stan) for Ireland context.

Klinsmann is an exceptioonally intelligent man, Huges has charisma. Both played across Europe and sampled different coaching styles.
Keane has worked under one style in England. An autocratic bully.

And that is what I believe he will be as a coach.

He wont motiviate, he will bollo.ck. See the MUTV interview. He genuinly belived that was the right way to approach the issue of underperforming team mates. Would we see him on the box after an Irish game lashing his charges out of it? How many would hang around? He may be a leader on the pitch, but that style wont wash in management, especially with younger players.

His tactical knowledge and organisational skills are unknown.

Crisis manage? Do me a favour. He cant keep his gob shut.

And he doesnt strike me as an intellectual heavyweight.

This is not down to my opinion of him as a judas rat ******* who has now abandoned club and country, but as a potential manager with absoultley no relevant experience.

[sligoman]

Roy Keane has the same managerial experience as Steve Staunton-None. But yet some of ye thought Staunton wouldn't be too bad of a choice, so what's the difference with Keane?

I cant help but think that some of ye are judging Keane on the incident in Saipan which is totally wrong in my opinion.

[Roverstillidie]

Roy Keane has the same managerial experience as Steve Staunton-None. But yet some of ye thought Staunton wouldn't be too bad of a choice, so what's the difference with Keane?


maybe, just maybe and im clutching at straws here but the fact that staunton is currently employed in a coaching role where as judas isnt? :rolleyes:

[sligoman]

maybe, just maybe and im clutching at straws here but the fact that staunton is currently employed in a coaching role where as judas isnt? :rolleyes:Coaching role with Walsall ffs:rolleyes:. That's about the same level as been captain of Man U for the last number of seasons;).

[Superhoops]

I cant help but think that some of ye are judging Keane on the incident in Saipan which is totally wrong in my opinion.
Not just Saipan, where was he when Kerr took over in 2003 and we still had a chance of qualifying for Euro 2004?

As regards Saipan, how could he as a manager ever expect to command the respect of players after how he behaved?

How could he as a manager expect players to turn up for friendlies after the contempt he showed over the years to managers, his team mates and fans with his attitude towards friendlies?

[geysir]

Roy Keane has the same managerial experience as Steve Staunton-None. But yet some of ye thought Staunton wouldn't be too bad of a choice, so what's the difference with Keane?
I cant help but think that some of ye are judging Keane on the incident in Saipan which is totally wrong in my opinion.
I posted very favorably about Staunton but like most of those who appreciate Stan the general view expressed was that he is better than some being mentioned but not just yet, let his coaching/management skills develop elsewhere first. But if I was forced at gunpoint to make a choice right now between him or Roy, I would go with Stan. I wonder would Saipan have ever happened had Brian Clough been Roy's club manager?

[OwlsFan]

How could he as a manager expect players to turn up for friendlies after the contempt he showed over the years to managers, his team mates and fans with his attitude towards friendlies?

Hear, hear. Anyway, it's all speculation. I very much doubt that he'd be interested in the job as he can still earn 100k a week for the next two years as a player (close on 10 million) while with the Irish job he might, if he was lucky earn, 1 million in those two years. Which would any sane person go for ? Hmmmm, maybe he might go for the Irish job.

[klein4]

just on the issue of freindlies.....most fans wouldnt turn up if they didnt have to cause of the block booking schemes.....how can we expect the players to be any more enthusiastic? I remember seein ireland play brazil to a half empty stadium. BRAZIL FFS! nobody wants to go down the eriksson road of 20 subs but I would prefer if freindlies were used to blood as many players as poss and emphasis was on giving them some exp rather than results.

[Karlos]

Frank Clark, Chairman of LMA from Sporting Life.com - I was incorrect on the assistant requiring the pro licence too however....:o :)

from Sportinglife.com

The policy of managers having the qualifications is backed by the League Managers' Association, who believe it is essential for newcomers to be fully educated before taking their first job after being players.

"It's a Premier League regulation," said Frank Clark, vice-chairman of the LMA.

"You've got to go through the system which can take two to three years, it's a time-consuming process although they've tried to fast-track them before.

"The man who picks the team - not the assistant or the coach - has to have the qualification. It's not the case in the Football League, although we wish it was.

"We support it totally. It's about raising the standards which is what we are into. It's about raising the standard of the whole game and we certainly think that this does that