Bertie & the Catholic Church

[John83]

...that's the biggest load of nonsense and indeed quite insulting to any member of the Catholic faith - I for one take offence.

If the subject matter was on Muslim or Mormon teaching and that type of remark was thrown aimlessly into a debate you would be told so by anyone who has a keen eye for all the -isms that are not PC on this forum, just so.

Think before you lash out with your own twisted insults please.:mad:
I'll happily criticise any religion I know a bit about. Most of us here know a bit about Catholicism to be able to argue that its teachings are whatever we take them to be. If someone compairs your faith to a cult, take a moment to actually consider the comparison. If you can't find an answer, don't go hiding behind the offended flag.

[anto1208]

And i totally agree with tired and emotional there if thats what your religion is teaching you to slag of other religions very harshly then i wouldnt want to be in your "cult";)


well since yours does nt just teach you but practices the actions of covering up for pedophile's murder's , rapists, kidnappers . makes me very very glad im not in there anymore.

the KKK are nt a cult they are "good god fearing men " as they call say that go to church every week.


bob geldof can sit in his masion because he earnt his money fair and square he did nt go around conning people out of it with false treats and promises.

[Tired&Emotional]

Same would apply if the state was funding 95% muslim schools. They're not in this country, so why would we be saying it?

Did you miss the point I was making, not sure?
See post #41

The poster claimed that "you ve been brain washed by this cult and now your doing the same to your kids .with out giving them a choice" referring to the Catholic Church. I took offence at the implication that I, as a Catholic, have been a) brainwashed by b) a cult.

If insulting refences to any other religion,creed, race age, sex, orientation etc
were made on this forum some people would be jumping down the throat of the poster in abhorrance....

There are a few Muslim schools in this country btw..

[Green Army Girl]

[QUOTE=anto1208]well since yours does nt just teach you but practices the actions of covering up for pedophile's murder's , rapists, kidnappers . makes me very very glad im not in there anymore.


Give that line a break it really p*sses me off how do you figure that one out so your telling me no other religion in the world has a rapist, kidnapper etc in it. And since your making an assumption that it practices the art of cover up and me being Catholic and brainwashed are you trying to say i was involved too and maybe i would be capable of all of the above.

And about the money the church earned it to they work for it there is missonarys all over the poor countries who just happen to be would you beleive it priests

[John83]

well since yours does nt just teach you but practices the actions of covering up for pedophile's murder's , rapists, kidnappers . makes me very very glad im not in there anymore.


Give that line a break it really p*sses me off how do you figure that one out so your telling me no other religion in the world has a rapist, kidnapper etc in it. And since your making an assumption that it practices the art of cover up and me being Catholic and brainwashed are you trying to say i was involved too and maybe i would be capable of all of the above.

And about the money the church earned it to they work for it there is missonarys all over the poor countries who just happen to be would you beleive it priests Please, enlighten us with the news coverage of the massive cover-ups of Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/etc. clerics buggering little boys. Come on, if they're all as bad as one another, it should be easy, right?

[anto1208]

Did you miss the point I was making, not sure?
does my post

The poster claimed that "you ve been brain washed by this cult and now your doing the same to your kids .with out giving them a choice" referring to the Catholic Church. I took offence at the implication that I, as a Catholic, have been a) brainwashed by b) a cult.

If insulting refences to any other religion,creed, race age, sex, orientation etc
were made on this forum some people would be jumping down the throat of the poster in abhorrance....

There are a few Muslim schools in this country btw..

and i followed it up by calling all religions cults as not to offened just one religion , i see no difference and im still waitng for you to explain the difference ?

cults belive in god ,
cults meet up to talk about there god and to pray to him
cults hand over there money to there leaders to live extravagant lifestyles

you belive in god
you meet up to talk about god and to pray to god
you hand over money to the church so the pope can live in a massive house in his own country:rolleyes: with a bowling alley , swimming pool and enough money a jewlery to feed the whole world

they seem pretty similar to me , i hope you can explain a few difference's

[Tired&Emotional]

explain the difference to me so between a catolic and a member of any other cult , musilim ,morman ,jedi !!! . outside the slight differences in beliefs

cults have a certain belief system , they meet up they repeat chants over and over again and collect money from the masses .

it reminds me of the simpsons episode with the cult homer joins , and rev lovejoy is talking of the dangers of cults , he says they brain wash you with there repetitive chanting and take your money .... then he says we'll say our lords prayer a dosen times while the collection plate is being passed around .

the church asks for money from the poorest people ,yet the vatican is full of gold it has a swimming pool a bowling alley etc etc etc ... do you not even wonder about it at all ???


If you are reminded of the Simpsons during this debate maybe you should apply for a guest appearance on "The Itchy & Scratchy Show" to be carved up in an amusing way.....:D

You obviously don't get it at all if it's all "repetitive chant..." and .."asking for money from the poorest people..":confused: :confused:

[Green Army Girl]

Please, enlighten us with the news coverage of the massive cover-ups of Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/etc. clerics buggering little boys. Come on, if they're all as bad as one another, it should be easy, right?


Did you ever think maybe they are still covering it up;) and i wasnt only confining it to the clergy i was speaking about their followers aswell trying to prove whether you are catholic or muslim or whatever you still have serial killers, rapists in your religion

[Tired&Emotional]

and i followed it up by calling all religions cults as not to offened just one religion , i see no difference and im still waitng for you to explain the difference ?

cults belive in god ,
cults meet up to talk about there god and to pray to him
cults hand over there money to there leaders to live extravagant lifestyles

you belive in god
you meet up to talk about god and to pray to god
you hand over money to the church so the pope can live in a massive house in his own country:rolleyes: with a bowling alley , swimming pool and enough money a jewlery to feed the whole world

they seem pretty similar to me , i hope you can explain a few difference's


Do a google on it or something....I don't have the time (I have to go boozing in about 10) or, at this stage the will, to educate you on religion, religious cults etc. You could try a past Leaving Cert English higher paper - there must have be a compare & contrast essay question on this before....:rolleyes:

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=anto1208]well since yours does nt just teach you but practices the actions of covering up for pedophile's murder's , rapists, kidnappers . makes me very very glad im not in there anymore.


Give that line a break it really p*sses me off how do you figure that one out so your telling me no other religion in the world has a rapist, kidnapper etc in it. And since your making an assumption that it practices the art of cover up and me being Catholic and brainwashed are you trying to say i was involved too and maybe i would be capable of all of the above.

And about the money the church earned it to they work for it there is missonarys all over the poor countries who just happen to be would you beleive it priests

assumption that it pratices the art of cover up ... did you really say that .. its not an assumption its a fact ... maybe the fact you still dont believe in this cover up proves my brain washed theory .

as i said before i used to be a catolic but when i heard about this when i learned of the industrial schools the magdeline laundries i said thats it these people are nt good people they arent doing Gods work ,i cant make excusses for them and i had to leave all the so called good priest should do the same .

[Green Army Girl]

and i followed it up by calling all religions cults as not to offened just one religion , i see no difference and im still waitng for you to explain the difference ?

cults belive in god ,
cults meet up to talk about there god and to pray to him
cults hand over there money to there leaders to live extravagant lifestyles

you belive in god
you meet up to talk about god and to pray to god
you hand over money to the church so the pope can live in a massive house in his own country:rolleyes: with a bowling alley , swimming pool and enough money a jewlery to feed the whole world

they seem pretty similar to me , i hope you can explain a few difference's


They are similar but then you could call football fans a cult.

They meet up watch a match talk to their mates.

Chant their fav teams anthems

Hand over money to the FAI who we all know have mansions.

But you wouldnt call this a cult because when it comes down to it the word cult is associated with bad things so i dont appreciate people calling my religion a cult there is plenty of other alternatives. Any way your free to leave our catholic cult

[Green Army Girl]

[QUOTE=Green Army Girl]

assumption that it pratices the art of cover up ... did you really say that .. its not an assumption its a fact ... maybe the fact you still dont believe in this cover up proves my brain washed theory .

as i said before i used to be a catolic but when i heard about this when i learned of the industrial schools the magdeline laundries i said thats it these people are nt good people they arent doing Gods work ,i cant make excusses for them and i had to leave all the so called good priest should do the same .

Now look who is trying to brain wash me by putting words in my mouth and the assumption part was that you assumed EVERYBODY was in on it when im sure maybe one or two CATHOLIC priests didnt know.

[anto1208]

Do a google on it or something....I don't have the time (I have to go boozing in about 10) or, at this stage the will, to educate you on religion, religious cults etc. You could try a past Leaving Cert English higher paper - there must have be a compare & contrast essay question on this before....:rolleyes:


just one difference so ,no cant think of any can you , you cant find one thats why you arent answering nothing to do with the time .

before you point out that cults kill people ill say crusades :rolleyes:

[hamish]

Kids are told lies everyday even by us like there is a santa..[/QUOTE]


WHAAAAAA???????:eek:

Santa is lies????

My birthday is 25th December

You've just ruined Christmas, ya horrible thing

Nasty. horrible, cruel GAG

Snivel, sob, bo hoo hoo........

No Santy for Hamish and it's GAG's fault

:p :D

[Peadar]

My birthday is 25th December

You and your niece? That's mad!

[Green Army Girl]

Kids are told lies everyday even by us like there is a santa..


WHAAAAAA???????

Santa is lies????

My birthday is 25th December

You've just ruined Christmas, ya horrible thing

Nasty. horrible, cruel GAG

Snivel, sob, bo hoo hoo........

No Santy for Hamish and it's GAG's fault

[/QUOTE]

Santa must have been a catholic with all these lies :eek::D

[Tired&Emotional]

just one difference so ,no cant think of any can you , you cant find one thats why you arent answering nothing to do with the time .

before you point out that cults kill people ill say crusades :rolleyes:

It's 16.45 on a Friday evening FFS....I don't work for this Forum....I'm off for a night of drunken debauchery.....and then straight to confession on Monday morning!!:D

Later.....

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=anto1208]

Now look who is trying to brain wash me by putting words in my mouth and the assumption part was that you assumed EVERYBODY was in on it when im sure maybe one or two CATHOLIC priests didnt know.

but my point is they know now , you know now yet you still choose to be a part of it . not only that but you want them to still have a say in our schools .

how can we trust them ever again ? it would be different if the vatican kicked them out of the church , helped the victim but it didnt it turned its back on the victims to protect itself .

[John83]

Santa must have been a catholic with all these lies :eek::D Can you not format a post properly? The sloppy way you've quoted there makes it look like sirhamish wrote something you did, and then like you've responded with what he posted. I thought he'd gone and double-posted there for a minute. That, at least, I could have understood. :rolleyes:

[anto1208]

It's 16.45 on a Friday evening FFS....I don't work for this Forum....I'm off for a night of drunken debauchery.....and then straight to confession on Monday morning

Later.....

i rest my case not one single point :rolleyes:

next time dont get so offended unless you know what your getting offended about :rolleyes:


and the joy from my point of veiw, is you have to forgive me !!:cool:

[Green Army Girl]

Can you not format a post properly? The sloppy way you've quoted there makes it look like sirhamish wrote something you did, and then like you've responded with what he posted. I thought he'd gone and double-posted there for a minute. That, at least, I could have understood. :rolleyes:

I do apologise for my posts not being up to your standards but to be honest i dont give a f*ck

[Green Army Girl]

[QUOTE=Green Army Girl]

but my point is they know now , you know now yet you still choose to be a part of it . not only that but you want them to still have a say in our schools .

how can we trust them ever again ? it would be different if the vatican kicked them out of the church , helped the victim but it didnt it turned its back on the victims to protect itself .


I suppose some people find it easier to forgive thats one of my catholic traits.

I think if every priest resigned then they would be seen as guilty and thats no right

[John83]

Now look who is trying to brain wash me by putting words in my mouth and the assumption part was that you assumed EVERYBODY was in on it when im sure maybe one or two CATHOLIC priests didnt know.
There was a piece in the Tribune two weeks ago about a priest who was Dean at Maynooth (I think) and who brought some news of abuse up to the bishops. He was told to take a year away, then his bishop followed him to Rome and told him he couldn't leave Rome without the man's resignation. His career was destroyed because he reported evidence of abuse to the senior clergy in this country.

Sure, there were plenty of good priests, but feic all of them spoke out, leaving those few who were decent enough to do so hung out to dry. An organisation that's rotten to the core doesn't change overnight.

[hamish]

You and your niece? That's mad!

Great planning Peadar!!!:D

I'll be 52 and Bubbles 20.

Really feeling 52 these days.:eek:

[Schumi]

i think any responsible parent would, nay should, be taking their children to mass to give them a start in morals, faith etc
What a disgraceful statement. Anyone who doesn't believe in a 'god' is inherently incapable of teaching their children any morals? The only reason that people don't go around doing whatever they want is because some 2000-year-old book tells them not to? What a sad way to live your life.

[Green Army Girl]

There was a piece in the Tribune two weeks ago about a priest who was Dean at Maynooth (I think) and who brought some news of abuse up to the bishops. He was told to take a year away, then his bishop followed him to Rome and told him he couldn't leave Rome without the man's resignation. His career was destroyed because he reported evidence of abuse to the senior clergy in this country.

Sure, there were plenty of good priests, but feic all of them spoke out, leaving those few who were decent enough to do so hung out to dry. An organisation that's rotten to the core doesn't change overnight.

Do you know im tired of repeating this i never said that there wasnt a cover up obviously there was but this is one story. Its hard for a girl that has been raped to tell anyone and im sure its hard to come to terms with what you might have seen of course you should come forward everytime but it was one priest not the whole of the clergy.

I agree with you that things wont change over night wish i didnt (cos that last mail about my post being all over the place could have been pm to me).But if you feel so strongly about the church never recovering dont kick a man while there down and if that is the case the church are finished then youve got your wish.

[hamish]

to be honest i dont give a f*ck


Still sulking GAG - and it's all your fault.

Don't worry about any technical deficiencies - I'm the worst at that crack in Footyland so you're not the worst.

I've been reading all the above posts. Very good debating. I feel sorry for the priests that really are pastors and are tagged with the "we're all molesters" tags. In the year leading up to my Mum's death, a young local priest used to visit her regularly (ok, ok that's his vocation) - she found him a great comfort.
I was also sick but he never tried to prosletize - if I wanted comfort, he was there if I needed it. I didn't.
It's the arrogant "doff your hat to me if I meet you on the street" shower that I can't stand. One tried to pull that stunt with me not that many years ago and I told him "How do you know what religion I am?" He said back, "I thought you were an RC, did you not see my clothing and show some respect?" I said, "I'm wearing a long black coat, black shirt, black slacks, black shoes - you should have shown respect to me - I could be a Vicar - now fcuk off with yourself - you're in the wrong era - it's not the 50s anymore. You earn repect". I walked off and left him steaming there. the arrogant pr!ck.

The biggest thing that really p!ssed me off was when the current pope issued a dictat to the US bishops NOT to disclose any data to the US courts that might put more paedophiles in trouble. That was an utter, obscene, appalling disgrace and he is no candidate for such an exalted position.

[John83]

Do you know im tired of repeating this i never said that there wasnt a cover up obviously there was but this is one story.
This is one story alright - about the truely rotten state of the entire upper tier clergy in this country.


I agree with you that things wont change over night wish i didnt (cos that last mail about my post being all over the place could have been pm to me).
I've read that sentance four times. It still makes no sense. You wish you didn't agree with me that things won't change overnight because I publicly gave out about your post? :confused:


But if you feel so strongly about the church never recovering dont kick a man while there down and if that is the case the church are finished then youve got your wish.
Tell me, where did I

Say that I thought that the church would never recover?
Kick the church while it is down? :confused:
Suggest I'd wish the church to be finished?

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=Green Army Girl]but it was one priest not the whole of the clergy.


I think if every priest resigned then they would be seen as guilty and thats no right

QUOTE]

we all understand it wasnt the whole clergy that abused the kids but it was the whole clergy that covered it up all the way to the top .

i think that if a priest came out and said im so sickened by all this that i cant be part of the church anymore , they wouldnt be seen as guilty at all quite the opposite he would be seen as a man with great moral fibre and currage to stand up and say this isnt right .

the abusers should be locked up in jails not moved parish .

[Thunderblaster]

If you are unhappy with the Catholic Church, there are other religions out there. There is nobody stopping anybody from converting. Then again, Bertie Ahern could have pledged his allegiance to the 19th Church of the Jesus Christ of Craggy Island.:D

[hamish]

Always fancied The Quakers myself. NOT the football club, the church. Bewleys made nice coffee and Cadburys make nice chocolate.

In case anyone doesn't know Bewleys and Cadburys were Quakers.:p :D

[Poor Student]

What has religion ever done for us anyway?

Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Holocaust, Genocide, too many wars to mention, Terrorism...

Wouldn't we be better off with a World Religion as most of the major world religions are based on the same people...

I'm sorry Pete but that's a very minimalist and narrow view of things which fails to take in a wide range of factors as causes for these things. Religion can often be subordinate to the overriding factor such as nationalism or irridentism. An absence of religion would not see an end to such things.

Catholicism is a cult under the definition of cult. It's modern sense is prejorative but the true sense of the word derived from the Latin colere t cultivate and then cultus worship. It simply means a system of religious belief or worship and its rituals.

[Green Army Girl]

Still sulking GAG - and it's all your fault.

Don't worry about any technical deficiencies - I'm the worst at that crack in Footyland so you're not the worst.



Thank you Sir. Hope everyone enjoyed Mass on Sunday;)

[pete]

Is there any religion that hasn't been in a war? Buddists?

[dcfcsteve]

Jesus christ, wtf is happening, two days, two threads and twice agreeing with right wingers, first over ASBO's, and now with Luscious Liz's opening play to take over from Harney :eek:

Who were the right-wingers on the ASBO discussion Macy ? :confused:

Me ? Peader ?? Pete ??? The numerous other poeple on that thread ????? :confused:

[as_i_say]

the catholic church is just like microsoft or mcdonalds or any other multi national organisation. all they care about is profit and money. the catholic churchs ownership of property/real estate in the world is second only to the mcdonalds corporation.

yet people still feel they have to give donations in a basket at mass. those ****ers owe me money!!with regard to ferns, which is only the begining, those priests that werent raping kids, knew about it and did nothing.

this country is under the thumb of an organisation that is no better than al queda and probably a lot more corrupt. Granted the catholic church doesnt advocate slapping your wife if she gets out of line and doesnt make girls dress up in halloween costumes like Islam but I believe this is only the beginning.

Hopefully the church will fade away and parents wont have to worry about sending their kids to a school that makes them take part in religion of any kind. some of these ****ing priests you see around are so old they'll need one of those anti-ageing chambers that mr.burns has in the simpsons.