Bertie & the Catholic Church

[finlma]

I didn't like too much what Bertie had to say yesterday about the Catholic Church. We owe the church nothing after what they've done to so many through the years. They may have run the school system but it would have been run without them too - they just use it to brainwash people into Catholicism when they're young and impressionable. I think religion should be taken out of schools altogether but thats an argument for another day.

Bertie should be ashamed of himself for making those comments, especially in the wake of the Ferns Report.

More ammunition for the new Politics Forum ;)

[drummerboy]

The problem is that they own the land the schools are built on.

[anto1208]

I didn't like too much what Bertie had to say yesterday about the Catholic Church. We owe the church nothing after what they've done to so many through the years. They may have run the school system but it would have been run without them too - they just use it to brainwash people into Catholicism when they're young and impressionable. I think religion should be taken out of schools altogether but thats an argument for another day.

Bertie should be ashamed of himself for making those comments, especially in the wake of the Ferns Report.

More ammunition for the new Politics Forum ;)


they would have been run with out them are you sure about that ? . where would this money come from the goverment that couldnt afford it or the people that had no money to pay for it ?

thats all bertie was saying and come on 99 % of all priests were good people , its the higher ups like the bishops etc that should have stopped it instead of covering it up .

but now the church should be taken out of all schools all hospitals every goverment body , they should have absolutly no say in how the country is run in our laws anything , religion is a personal choice and there belives should nt be force opon me if i dont want them .

[Macy]

The problem is that they own the land the schools are built on.
Donated by someone no doubt. It's not like they brought it out of their own funds. Only surprise they haven't bullied the donating families into signing over the land (as has happened to at least one family I know) so they can sell it off for houses.

It's a disgrace that there isn't a secular schooling system in this country. We're a secular country whether Catholic fundamentalists like Bertie want to see it or not. If anything the Catholic church has held us back, as opposed to Berties contention that it's helped us get us where we are.

Incidentally, was anyone listening to the last word last night? That Catholic organisation that is against telling kids to speak up if they feel they're abused? :rolleyes:

Jesus christ, wtf is happening, two days, two threads and twice agreeing with right wingers, first over ASBO's, and now with Luscious Liz's opening play to take over from Harney :eek: :D

[anto1208]

Incidentally, was anyone listening to the last word last night? That Catholic organisation that is against telling kids to speak up if they feel they're abused? :rolleyes:



what the hell i totally missed that , thats totally disgusting but comes as absolutly no surprise really :mad: .



is bertie an outcast from the church because he is seperated and living in sin with his new bird :rolleyes:

[hoops1]

Could someone please tell me what they are spending the taxpayers money
on
1 The church basically owns/finances half the education system
300/320 primary schools
leaving the secondary schools to the government
2 Our Health service is on a par with Fallujha
The nuns used to be bitches but they kept it clean and ran it properly
3 Our transport system needs 9m a day for the next 15 years to bring it
into the 18th century

Does it suprise anyone Bertie is loving the church they will be back
running the country when we end up with an economy like we had
in the 80's
All the years of Celtic Tiger wasted

[Macy]

1 The church basically owns/finances half the education system
300/320 primary schools
leaving the secondary schools to the government
It doesn't, it controls them. Government funds the school building and the teachers, some parishioner probably donated the land (or the parishioners donated money to buy the land). Problem is the power the church has in our primary education system, and the lack of alternatives for people who don't want there children raised in a Catholic environment.

[hamish]

2 Our Health service is on a par with Fallujha
The nuns used to be bitches but they kept it clean and ran it properly


Very true hoops1 - have spent a lotta time in hospitals over the past 5 years and my local, Portiuncula, was run by the nuns until a few years ago. They were a pain allright BUT, since the Western Health Board took over, it's not nearly as well run.

We can all argue about whether nuns should have been involved in founding or running hospitals etc etc but it is an historical fact 'cos the governments of those days needed the clergy to run various institutions for a variety of reasons that we all know about - lack of finance, lack of drive and vision etc on various governments parts. Clergy were handy number to do the hard work and raise some of the money.

Macy's point above is also true. Governments did finance clergy run institutions but copped out of financing them totally and the priests and runs would put their wages back into the system to help fund things. (They took some money for their bodily needs etc) Also, laity fund raised for technical equipment for hospital theatres and so on.
It was/is two way thing. Government did a little, clergy do their bit.

Suited both parties since they were interlinked culturally in any case.

[pete]

Religion has no place in schools. Children should be able to be taught religion by their own organisation after school hours. Maybe the church does own most of the land schools on but this doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Why didn't the state take some of that land in exchange for sweetheart deal over abuse compo payments?

I've heard that non Catholic children have to go to separate rooms while Cathlolic religion taught in primary schools. Primary teachers also have to pass a Catholic religion exam if they want to have any chance at getting a permanent post.

[Green Army Girl]

I think thats jumping the gun a bit taking religion out of schools. Of course it was wrong what happened but there are priests out there that have done nothing but the job they want to do and they are tarred with the same brush as the other scum bags.

Religion is a big part of Ireland and im proud that im a Catholic and im sure alot ofpeople rant and rave about being Catholic when Celtic play so why should it be any different now.

If a pedophile was found in a family you know you would disown the whole family.

[finlma]

I think thats jumping the gun a bit taking religion out of schools. Of course it was wrong what happened but there are priests out there that have done nothing but the job they want to do and they are tarred with the same brush as the other scum bags.

Religion is a big part of Ireland and im proud that im a Catholic and im sure alot ofpeople rant and rave about being Catholic when Celtic play so why should it be any different now.

If a pedophile was found in a family you know you would disown the whole family.

I'd have to completely disagree. A 4 year doesn't know what religion they want to be and shouldn't be spoon fed catholicism. It should be up to the individual to decide when they are 18. The sad thing is - its hard to find a school if you're non-catholic. Religion has kept this country in the dark ages for long enough and its time for it to go from public schools, especially with the country becoming more multi-denominational.

[Green Army Girl]

I'd have to completely disagree. A 4 year doesn't know what religion they want to be and shouldn't be spoon fed catholicism. It should be up to the individual to decide when they are 18. The sad thing is - its hard to find a school if you're non-catholic. Religion has kept this country in the dark ages for long enough and its time for it to go from public schools, especially with the country becoming more multi-denominational.


Your thought history in school and you are thought about how hard Irishmen fought for their country and when i was at school my history class was just a class on how to hate Britian. I dont hate Britian today (that much;) ) because i made up my own mind. A religion class informs us not pushes you into becoming a devoted Catholic

I agree our country is full of different races and religions so they bring there religion to our country so why should we try hide our religion from them. Muslim women wear burkhas around theirn face showing to people on the street that she is a muslim so why cant we show our religion in a classroom. Ireland changes to much to suit other countries thats why Dublin 6/7 years ago was a better place to be full of better prople

[Tired&Emotional]

I think thats jumping the gun a bit taking religion out of schools. Of course it was wrong what happened but there are priests out there that have done nothing but the job they want to do and they are tarred with the same brush as the other scum bags.

Religion is a big part of Ireland and im proud that im a Catholic and im sure alot ofpeople rant and rave about being Catholic when Celtic play so why should it be any different now.




Agree with your almost all your points....

I think it has made us the nation of people we are since the State was born and i am proud of that too. I think it is wrong to say we had have no need for the Catholic teaching in schools and people to try to take the high moral ground about where, historically, religion has come in our society annoy me as they are somewhat denying the country and society they were born in and it the same breath how the State was born and evolved. Sure society must change with the times but turning a system on it's head will not work.

There are bad apples in every walk of life so to conveniently open up the Catholic schools debate on the back of the Ferns Report is a tad out of proprtion, Liz!

Don't think Celtic should have been brought into it though!

[Green Army Girl]

Don't think Celtic should have been brought into it though![/QUOTE]

Point taken but it is a football site and thought it might bring the point home quicker as we all know the Celtic v Rangers story and know what it really stands for in religious terms and if this upset anyone sorry

[Tired&Emotional]

I'd have to completely disagree. A 4 year doesn't know what religion they want to be and shouldn't be spoon fed catholicism. It should be up to the individual to decide when they are 18. .


So how do you suggest we give children a healthy moral start in life/society if we leave them in the dark until they are 18 to decide.....I, for one, cannot begin to imagine the society we would find ourselves in if that was the way.

Human nature, being what it is, requires some sort of higher being to have faith of some description, any physcologists will tell you that so if wasn't Catholicism it would be something else and there would be a different queue forming with misgivings about that religion and it's place in society, schools etc...

[Tired&Emotional]

Don't think Celtic should have been brought into it though!

Point taken but it is a football site and thought it might bring the point home quicker as we all know the Celtic v Rangers story and know what it really stands for in religious terms and if this upset anyone sorry[/QUOTE]


Only pre-empting others really but driving the point home to some....I hear ya loud 'n' clear!:D

[anto1208]

Your thought history in school and you are thought about how hard Irishmen fought for their country and when i was at school my history class was just a class on how to hate Britian. I dont hate Britian today (that much;) ) because i made up my own mind. A religion class informs us not pushes you into becoming a devoted Catholic

I agree our country is full of different races and religions so they bring there religion to our country so why should we try hide our religion from them. Muslim women wear burkhas around theirn face showing to people on the street that she is a muslim so why cant we show our religion in a classroom. Ireland changes to much to suit other countries thats why Dublin 6/7 years ago was a better place to be full of better prople

you say our religion like ireland is a catolic country , im irish im a christian ( not catolic anymore )but i dont want in any way shape or form religion to either be taught in schools or have any effect on the laws of the land , ie divorce etc ..

how can any organisation that is so corrupt and goes against its own belives be alloud to influence any one in this country .

the whole structure of the church is against jesus's teachings he said no one man is more important than another yet the church has a higher archy :rolleyes: ,

the church are liars from the very top how can any one seriously go to church and take what they say to have any meaning .

every one knows the church has great and good priest's but since the vatican covered up the abuse then they are all accountable for not speaking out about it .

[Green Army Girl]

you say our religion like ireland is a catolic country , im irish im a christian ( not catolic anymore )but i dont want in any way shape or form religion to either be taught in schools or have any effect on the laws of the land , ie divorce etc ..

how can any organisation that is so corrupt and goes against its own belives be alloud to influence any one in this country .

the whole structure of the church is against jesus's teachings he said no one man is more important than another yet the church has a higher archy :rolleyes: ,

the church are liars from the very top how can any one seriously go to church and take what they say to have any meaning .

every one knows the church has great and good priest's but since the vatican covered up the abuse then they are all accountable for not speaking out about it .


This is the point im trying to make not everyone in the Church was involved. There are priests out there helping their community and are ashamed of whats happened and how it was covered up. Not every priest knew about it how can you say that do you know everything that happens in your family.

Yeah the Church is on quite a pedestal but each person inside that church im sure is treated the same as the next man.

I think for priests to come out every Sunday and say mass they have balls and should be commended for it. Its a bit like Tana Umaga from New Zealand showing his face in Dublin.

[Macy]

So how do you suggest we give children a healthy moral start in life/society if we leave them in the dark until they are 18 to decide.....I, for one, cannot begin to imagine the society we would find ourselves in if that was the way.

Human nature, being what it is, requires some sort of higher being to have faith of some description, any physcologists will tell you that so if was Catholicism it would be something else and there would be a different queue forming with misgivings about that religion and it's place in society, schools etc...
So you can't teach children between right and wrong without catholism? Why not change the schools to CofI then, if the only requirement is some form of religion. If people want their child to get a religious education, they can do it in their own time if that's what they want.

At the moment children and parents are bullied and forced to accept a catholic education. There is no choice. The state should provide non-demoninational schools only.

The state has evolved and as it has evolved religion is becoming far less important amongst irish people. To attempt to bring islam and immigration into the equation is an attempt to muddy the waters and is irrelevant to the discussion.

Take out the fact that we're becoming a multi-cultural society, and look at the irish people you know. How many go to mass, particularly those that don't have children (since many schools give priority to regular mass goers so force parents to go to church).

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=Green Army Girl]This is the point im trying to make not everyone in the Church was involved. There are priests out there helping their community and are ashamed of whats happened and how it was covered up. Not every priest knew about it how can you say that do you know everything that happens in your family.
QUOTE]

well if it was printed in every national paper , covered in most international papers and news channels then id probibly have an idea .

if a member of my family kidnapped raped tortured and murdered children and the whole family covered up for it would i dissown them? .. yes i would in a second , the very fact your trying to excuse any of them is quite sickening .

if i was a good priest id leave the church saying i cant be part of it any more .



id accept a religion class as in a class that disscussed all religions didnt exclude any kids , there are such schools in ireland now where the kids disscuss the religous holidays as they happen , if its a islamic holiday they talk about what that means how it is celebrated etc ..

how can you suggest that the catolic church be alloud to teach kids blatent lies , ie dinasours were put here by god as a trick to test our fate

[finlma]

So how do you suggest we give children a healthy moral start in life/society if we leave them in the dark until they are 18 to decide.....I, for one, cannot begin to imagine the society we would find ourselves in if that was the way.


You teach them morals and not religion - its quiet simple really. You don't have to be Catholic to be a good person.
So you're saying people who are not Catholics are left in the dark - how do you know its the correct religion - thats extreme naievity. If Catholicism is taught in schools then so should every other religion to give a fair balance.

[Tired&Emotional]

So you can't teach children between right and wrong without catholism? Why not change the schools to CofI then, if the only requirement is some form of religion. If people want their child to get a religious education, they can do it in their own time if that's what they want.

At the moment children and parents are bullied and forced to accept a catholic education. There is no choice. The state should provide non-demoninational schools only.

The state has evolved and as it has evolved religion is becoming far less important amongst irish people. To attempt to bring islam and immigration into the equation is an attempt to muddy the waters and is irrelevant to the discussion.

Take out the fact that we're becoming a multi-cultural society, and look at the irish people you know. How many go to mass, particularly those that don't have children (since many schools give priority to regular mass goers so force parents to go to church).


You're question should be "So you can't teach children between right and wrong without religion? " It's going to be one religion or another it just so happens we started off with Catholicism in this country. I am not suggesting one religion over another I am saying that without some sort of solid foundation (and in a teaching environment) society would become one without moral boundries.

The whole idea of schools is to teach societies' children as a whole. If parents were left to teach their own version of moral codes there would be no cohesive nature; some wouldn't bother, others would have their own ideas...too much pick 'n' mixing! The is fundamentely why the various societies around the world are centred on one particular religion or other...this is human nature. Religion,whatever it may be, is one of the superglues that holds a particular society/culture together. Where different societies conflict on their beliefs is another matter entirely!

The situation of being born into a society that is based on any religion is difficult to change for any minority therein where the majoity are reconciled to one faith....granted, this makes choice not so easy and there are no straight-forward solutions but no-one is bullying anyone....it is just that some find themselves outside the majority, it's no-ones fault!

If you are going to quote me then please do not put words in my mouth!! - i never even suggested brining "islam and immigration into the equation..."
What I speak of could be said from any standpoint, be it CofI or Hindu!!

Leaving aside the mutli-cultural nature of our society today, as you suggest, when it comes to mass goers, i think any responsible parent would, nay should, be taking their children to mass to give them a start in morals, faith etc ...it's central to a family of any faith! In this case, either they are Catholics or not - they can't have their cake and eat it!

[finlma]

Leaving aside the mutli-cultural nature of our society today, as you suggest, when it comes to mass goers, i think any responsible parent would, nay should, be taking their children to mass to give them a start in morals, faith etc ...it's central to a family of any faith! In this case, either they are Catholics or not - they can't have their cake and eat it!

What morals are taught at mass - not a single one. Its a load of ranting and people rattling of prayers without any meaning. I remember going as a child and I hated every single second of it. I will not bring any of my children to mass nor baptise them - and I can assure you I will be a very responsible parent and I can teach morals without religion.

[Green Army Girl]

well if it was printed in every national paper , overed in most international papers and news channels then id probibly have an idea .

I was talking about before it when public .im sure not every priest in every church knew wat was going on.

if a member of my family kidnapped raped tortured and murdered children and the whole family covered up for it would i dissown them? .. yes i would in a second , the very fact your trying to excuse any of them is quite sickening .

if i was a good priest id leave the church saying i cant be part of it any more .

Why would you leave a job you wanted to do. When footballers are up for rape charges you dont see Roy Keane going well im getting the f*ck out of this job now just because there is accusations being thrown around.


id accept a religion class as in a class that disscussed all religions didnt exclude any kids , there are such schools in ireland now where the kids disscuss the religous holidays as they happen , if its a islamic holiday they talk about what that means how it is celebrated etc ..

I agree you should have something in place where the child can go to the religion class where their religion is thought but arent you going back on what your point by saying now to have a religion class in schools.

how can you suggest that the catolic church be alloud to teach kids blatent lies , ie dinasours were put here by god as a trick to test our fate[/QUOTE]

Kids are told lies everyday even by us like there is a santa.(sorry to tell u lads) The church can voice what their beliefs are but its you who decides whether they are lies at the end of the day.

[Green Army Girl]

What morals are taught at mass - not a single one. Its a load of ranting and people rattling of prayers without any meaning. I remember going as a child and I hated every single second of it. I will not bring any of my children to mass nor baptise them - and I can assure you I will be a very responsible parent and I can teach morals without religion.


Well they are hardly teaching you at mass how to rob thy neighbour. The morals thought at mass are to respect and about peace whether people go out an pratice that its up to them.

Of course you can teach your child morals and i resepct you for that but where ever you get the idea that the church doesnt teach morals i dont know and dont use the abuse line we know that and ive made my feelins clear on that point

[finlma]

....dont use the abuse line we know that and ive made my feelins clear on that point

I didn't mention abuse in my posts - it has nothing to do with my point. My point is that a particular religion shouldn't be forced on people in public schools. Public schools should not teach religion - if a person wants their children to go to a Catholic/Protestant/Muslim/Buddhist school then fair enough.
Also children don't listen in mass - its way too boring for them. They're taught morals in the classroom.

[pete]

What has religion ever done for us anyway?

Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Holocaust, Genocide, too many wars to mention, Terrorism...

Wouldn't we be better off with a World Religion as most of the major world religions are based on the same people...

[anto1208]

Kids are told lies everyday even by us like there is a santa.(sorry to tell u lads) The church can voice what their beliefs are but its you who decides whether they are lies at the end of the day.


ah see now you have hit the nail in the face , you and me can decide whether they are lies or not but can a 5 or 6 year old kid ? . its brain washing


on the morals

there moral objection to IV treatment for couples that cant have kids , on stem cell research that could save millions of lives , because they think we are playing god , but if you belive in god and you belive he made us this way then he made humans this smart for a reason to figure out these things and help people . what did god make a mistake ??


it reminds me of a little story : there is a huge flood and every one is getting out of town ,bar this one guy who belives god will save him , as the water rises he climbs up onto the roof a passing boat says get in we ll save you he replies no i belive in god he will save me , the water rises to his kness , an other boat pass's same thing happens " god will save me " .
the water gets up to his neck the an other boat passes they say get in we'll save you this is the last boat , he says no ive faith that god will save me .

he drowns goes up to heaven meets god and says god im was a good man i prayed every day and never sinned why didnt you save me ..

to which god replies " who do you think sent all the boats "!!

[klein4]

just on the bertie thing.....does nobody who is supporting the catholic church on this thread think that his comments were at the very least insensitive given the ferns report is basically about priests who were taking advantage of the churches role in education in order to abuse children?????????

[Tired&Emotional]

What morals are taught at mass - not a single one. Its a load of ranting and people rattling of prayers without any meaning. I remember going as a child and I hated every single second of it. I will not bring any of my children to mass nor baptise them - and I can assure you I will be a very responsible parent and I can teach morals without religion.

I'm no "holy joe" myself, it has to be said but I if you have to ask what morals are being taught at mass then I think you miss the point of religious teachings.

I assume from this then you were born into a family of a particular religion but choose not to bring you kids up in the same way as you have become disillusioned with it for whatever reason - fair enough. And I understand what you are saying. But I just think there has to be a higher level of order for society ie religion in schools, a centrepoint to be built around, and yes, this may result in conflict for those who disagree but if the "system" was the other way 'round and there was no common ground to start from, society in general would become a nasty place to live...

[Green Army Girl]

I dont think its fair to say religion has done nothing. I see people who have lost some of the most important people in their lives and the only thing keeping them going is their religion and believing that they will see them again in heaven. So i dont see how thats a bad spin-off from religion.

I think its a great idea to have a religion class for each religion.

But my kids will be raised as Irish Catholics thats the way i was and i have morals (by no means am i a good litte catholic irish girl) but i treat people well and with respect

[Green Army Girl]

just on the bertie thing.....does nobody who is supporting the catholic church on this thread think that his comments were at the very least insensitive given the ferns report is basically about priests who were taking advantage of the churches role in education in order to abuse children?????????

Of course they were but why highlight was Bertie said when everyone else is saying it. He shouldnt have said what he did but people are just ready to pounce on people and im not going to bring a specific person like Bertie into it.

One of the greatest attribute of an Irish person was to forgive you dont have to forget i believe every dog has its day and those priests will and any other clergy member who knew about it. Thats all i have to say i dont want to be stressing the same points again and again.

So good nit and God bless :D

[Ash]

On another note, Religion is now an exam subject for the Junior and Leaving
Cert. For the Leaving it covers a range of religions but focuses on 1 as far as I know. Also teaches about morals, conscience etc.

[Bald Student]

Liz took a dig at a particular institution in Bertie's constituancy and Bertie defended his constituants (and his votes).

[Tired&Emotional]

just on the bertie thing.....does nobody who is supporting the catholic church on this thread think that his comments were at the very least insensitive given the ferns report is basically about priests who were taking advantage of the churches role in education in order to abuse children?????????


He is taking a standpoint of the Church, in this State, historically up to the present day. I don't think he was excusing it or defending the people of the Church that were directly involved. I think he said what he said so that impressionable people wouldn't just turn their back on the Church/State schools arr. (the ones looking for any excuse to) just because of what was reported about Ferns. Of course it is an absolute disgrace what went on but it does not mean that the good people, with intentions of spreading the Good News, teaching etc, who have been in the Church down the years, are to be viewed with the same distain as those who were named in the Ferns Report.

It will not be easy for thse victims of abuse to recover, if at all, but that does not mean the good should not be defended...it is not a slur on the victims and should not be interpreted as....

[John83]

On another note, Religion is now an exam subject for the Junior and Leaving
Cert. For the Leaving it covers a range of religions but focuses on 1 as far as I know. Also teaches about morals, conscience etc.
Does a child of atheist parents have to take that?

In relation to the earlier posts, I don't think that mass teaches children anything - they don't listen to it. You've got a priest standing far away talking in BIG landidge about stuff they don't understand. Ever bring a child to mass? They're bored and restless.

[anto1208]

But my kids will be raised as Irish Catholics thats the way i was and i have morals (by no means am i a good litte catholic irish girl) but i treat people well and with respect

surely if your by no means a good irish catolic your just lieing to yourself i thought it was all or nothing with religion or can you just pick and choose the bits that suit you and your life style ?

thats the way i am i dont agree with absolutly all the church's teachings so id feel like a hypocryte going to mass and pretending i was a catolic .

i do belive in god and his teachings but i choose to live my life the way he wants me to by being a good honest and kind person rather than sitting in a room once a week , chanting and handing over hard earned cash ... most people call these cults !! .

you ve been brain washed by this cult and now your doing the same to your kids .with out giving them a choice

[klein4]

A spokesman for the victims group was on the radio yesterday saying how it was offensive. thats why I asked the question. He made some pretty good points of which I cant remember well enough to be going misquoting him. maybe someone else who heard it might know. I dont think that the line about this only being a few bad apples holds water anymore. what are the actual statistics? remember the ferns report only refers to one diocese. Its only natural for people to defend their beliefs but I personally think the catholic church in Ireland should be showing a lot more remorse over what happened than they seem to be.they do have an important role to play in society. But they are in danger of losing any positive contribution they make by adapting a siege mentality. Yes the church is taking a bashing at the mo. But with good reason.

[Tired&Emotional]

you ve been brain washed by this cult and now your doing the same to your kids .with out giving them a choice

Before I pop to the chemist for a few aspirin after all this, I just had to say that's the biggest load of nonsense and indeed quite insulting to any member of the Catholic faith - I for one take offence.

If the subject matter was on Muslim or Mormon teaching and that type of remark was thrown aimlessly into a debate you would be told so by anyone who has a keen eye for all the -isms that are not PC on this forum, just so.

Think before you lash out with your own twisted insults please.:mad:

[klein4]

I agree with what your sayin but that oul "if it was said about muslims....blah balh blah..." is one of the most innane things that is always trotted out....and just as bloody offensive

[Tired&Emotional]

I agree with what your sayin but that oul "if it was said about muslims....blah balh blah..." is one of the most innane things that is always trotted out....and just as bloody offensive


It was just an example of other religions MORMON as well for example...I could have listed all of the faiths across the world but that would involve even more typing and I'm not trained in typing nor am i able to list all religions, my arms and head were getting tired but to get my point across without being offensive.....

"If the subject matter was on any other religious teaching and that type of remark was thrown aimlessly into a debate you would be told so by anyone who has a keen eye for all the -isms that are not PC on this forum, just so."

I apologise for offence caused - this is not how i was thinking...:)

[Green Army Girl]

[QUOTE=anto1208]surely if your by no means a good irish catolic your just lieing to yourself i thought it was all or nothing with religion or can you just pick and choose the bits that suit you and your life style ?

I knew someone would pick up on that and i had a feeling it might be you;) I never once said the Catholic Religion was all or nothing i believe in God and i believe in a heaven and just because im not a model Catholic but that doesnt make me any less religious and there was also a but after good Catholic Irish Girl. Anyway the Catholic Church teaches you that once you confess your sins your forgiven so i suppose after confession i am a good Irish Catholic Girl

[Ash]

Does a child of atheist parents have to take that?


I dont know how many schools actually teach it as an exam subject,
I only know its on the list cos my girlfreind is a religion teacher.
She teaches in a CBS so thats why its taight for exams there.

[Green Army Girl]

surely if your by no means a good irish catolic your just lieing to yourself i thought it was all or nothing with religion or can you just pick and choose the bits that suit you and your life style ?

thats the way i am i dont agree with absolutly all the church's teachings so id feel like a hypocryte going to mass and pretending i was a catolic .

i do belive in god and his teachings but i choose to live my life the way he wants me to by being a good honest and kind person rather than sitting in a room once a week , chanting and handing over hard earned cash ... most people call these cults !! .

you ve been brain washed by this cult and now your doing the same to your kids .with out giving them a choice


And i totally agree with tired and emotional there if thats what your religion is teaching you to slag of other religions very harshly then i wouldnt want to be in your "cult";)

[anto1208]

Before I pop to the chemist for a few aspirin after all this, I just had to say that's the biggest load of nonsense and indeed quite insulting to any member of the Catholic faith - I for one take offence.

If the subject matter was on Muslim or Mormon teaching and that type of remark was thrown aimlessly into a debate you would be told so by anyone who has a keen eye for all the -isms that are not PC on this forum, just so.

Think before you lash out with your own twisted insults please.:mad:

explain the difference to me so between a catolic and a member of any other cult , musilim ,morman ,jedi !!! . outside the slight differences in beliefs

cults have a certain belief system , they meet up they repeat chants over and over again and collect money from the masses .

it reminds me of the simpsons episode with the cult homer joins , and rev lovejoy is talking of the dangers of cults , he says they brain wash you with there repetitive chanting and take your money .... then he says we'll say our lords prayer a dosen times while the collection plate is being passed around .

the church asks for money from the poorest people ,yet the vatican is full of gold it has a swimming pool a bowling alley etc etc etc ... do you not even wonder about it at all ???

[Macy]

If the subject matter was on Muslim or Mormon teaching and that type of remark was thrown aimlessly into a debate you would be told so by anyone who has a keen eye for all the -isms that are not PC on this forum, just so.
Same would apply if the state was funding 95% muslim schools. They're not in this country, so why would we be saying it?

[Ash]

the church asks for money from the poorest people ,yet the vatican is full of gold it has a swimming pool a bowling alley etc etc etc ... do you not even wonder about it at all ???

I was actually in the Vatican last week (I was on hols in Rome) and couldnt
get over the place. Theres more gold there than you can shake a stick at!

[Green Army Girl]

explain the difference to me so between a catolic and a member of any other cult , musilim ,morman ,jedi !!! . outside the slight differences in beliefs

cults have a certain belief system , they meet up they repeat chants over and over again and collect money from the masses .

it reminds me of the simpsons episode with the cult homer joins , and rev lovejoy is talking of the dangers of cults , he says they brain wash you with there repetitive chanting and take your money .... then he says we'll say our lords prayer a dosen times while the collection plate is being passed around .

the church asks for money from the poorest people ,yet the vatican is full of gold it has a swimming pool a bowling alley etc etc etc ... do you not even wonder about it at all ???


Back again. A cult is seen as dangerous by people these days and is more associated with the devil than God. Isnt the KKK a cult.


Of course the church has money why shouldnt it, it has to run itself like a business or it would just die out. Bob f*cking Geldof sits in a mansion but you dont see anything wrong with thats.

[klein4]

when the swimming association was hit by sex abuse scandals the government cut off funding til they got their house in order. why the different approach to the catholic church. why couldnt they have paid their own compensation to victims if they are so rich?

bowling alley in the vatican?????
...that sounds like something straight out of fr ted....

[pete]

Back again. A cult is seen as dangerous by people these days and is more associated with the devil than God. Isnt the KKK a cult.


I'd guess most cults worship a God.