Tonights Latest

[A face]

Hmmmm I dunno, Id like to see it, and if the talk of developments in the RSC (new stand on the other side of the pitch) and extra money to come in are to be believed he might be interested himself. One thing he has done though (at least in public) has kept a lowish enough profile while he;s been here. Obviously recognising that he isnt the manager, although I'd imagine what goes on behind closed doors is a different story.....

Nah ... fair play if he stays ... should do well ..... but you'd wanna keep an eye on him like !! :D

[Jimmy's_head]

Nah ... fair play if he stays ... should do well ..... but you'd wanna keep an eye on him like !! :D


Indeed, and his use of the wallet! Think we came too close to the brink this year to allow that to happen tbh

[Buller]

any latest scores in the (real) rovers match? teletext is down and local radio is sh!te.
Yeah, we got beaten 3-1... :(

[Roverstillidie]

just back form inchicore. very unlucky, two poor teams played a very niggly game.
kelly did his usual headline grabbing trick, pats defender is the last man and gets a yellow card for handball at 1-0, crazy, if its deliberate hand ball in that position, he has to go. at 2-1 when we look like getting something he awards a penalty for what appeared to be a kick at a pats player who had dived. the ball was dead ffs, he was pointing for the goal kick and awards a peno?!? what a ******. wont argue that mcdonnell was a silly boy for reacting to the cheat, but you cannot award a peno for it!!
we are rightly in the sh.ite now. and this time its not even our fault.

[dfx-]

kelly did his usual headline grabbing trick, pats defender is the last man and gets a yellow card for handball at 1-0,

Was he even booked? I don't remember him booking him..he booked our player probably for 'dissent'..that was all, as far as I could see


the ball was dead ffs, he was pointing for the goal kick and awards a peno?!? what a ******. wont argue that mcdonnell was a silly boy for reacting to the cheat, but you cannot award a peno for it!!
we are rightly in the sh.ite now. and this time its not even our fault.

That really was extraordinary...the pats player went down(fairly or not is irrelevant)..he acts as if nothing is up...then runs across the pitch to McDonnell and the player on the ground..gets near to them and then suddenly runs across the box again but giving a penalty now..:confused:

Surely if he saw the incident he need not run across the box and then blow up for a penalty? Did the linesman give it? If he thought was a penalty as the incident happened, there would be nothing to gain by running over to the situation only to run away from it when you get there:confused:

And if anyone could tell me what was the last game Kelly refereed that Rovers won, I'd appreciate it, because I can't think of any..

[green army]

just back form inchicore. very unlucky, two poor teams played a very niggly game.
kelly did his usual headline grabbing trick, pats defender is the last man and gets a yellow card for handball at 1-0, crazy, if its deliberate hand ball in that position, he has to go. at 2-1 when we look like getting something he awards a penalty for what appeared to be a kick at a pats player who had dived. the ball was dead ffs, he was pointing for the goal kick and awards a peno?!? what a ******. wont argue that mcdonnell was a silly boy for reacting to the cheat, but you cannot award a peno for it!!
we are rightly in the sh.ite now. and this time its not even our fault.

yis are only believing what yis want to believe. dara wasnt going to be sent off cos caffo was behind him running towards the goal. he wasnt the last man and it wasnt deliberate hand ball. he went in for a tackle.

with regard to the pen. the ball wasnt dead. saw it on tv 3 last nite. kelly had played on. rovers player rightly sent off. pats player didnt run acroos pitch to mc donnell. it was a stupid thing to do by the rovers player.

the two teams were as bad as each other. but we won.

[Dodge]

Quality post by green army. wasn't sure about the penalty but if it was still in play, the correct decision. Kelly was awful but not biased. He gave loads of decisions to the homeless, even if they weren't headline grabbing. Thought one of their players should've been sent off earlier. Got an early yellow and then a rash challenge on Reillly with 15 to go...

[Roverstillidie]

Quality post by green army. wasn't sure about the penalty but if it was still in play, the correct decision. Kelly was awful but not biased. He gave loads of decisions to the homeless, even if they weren't headline grabbing. Thought one of their players should've been sent off earlier. Got an early yellow and then a rash challenge on Reillly with 15 to go...

it wasnt, he was pointing for a goal kick when he ran over to the incident.
it was the wrong decision, and as with letting the pats defender stay on after a deliberate handball, came at crucial times.
he was poor, but you got the key decisions in your favour.
i genuinely never recall winning a game with him in charge....

rovers have requsted a video copy of last nights match. he was that poor.

[Dodge]

Nobody ever remembers the ref when they win games...

[Roverstillidie]

Nobody ever remembers the ref when they win games...

bet you will remember this cu.nt for the 3 points he gifted you!!!!

[Rebal Boy]

city for the league!

Cork City that is.:D

[Dr.Nightdub]

bet you will remember this cu.nt for the 3 points he gifted you!!!!

If there was any gifting, it was youse:
- Molloy shot straight at Barry Ryan when he had the whole goal to aim for
- for the free that led to our first, you had a collection of players standing around at random ten yards from the ball, instead of forming a proper wall
- apart from one shot for your goal, you put no real pressure on our sub keeper
- if your centre half hadn't belted Socky, Kelly wouldn't have given the peno, dead ball or not

[Roverstillidie]

If there was any gifting, it was youse:
- Molloy shot straight at Barry Ryan when he had the whole goal to aim for
- for the free that led to our first, you had a collection of players standing around at random ten yards from the ball, instead of forming a proper wall
- apart from one shot for your goal, you put no real pressure on our sub keeper
- if your centre half hadn't belted Socky, Kelly wouldn't have given the peno, dead ball or not

doc, you are one of the more intellegent posters on this forum.
so answer this. if a ball is dead, and a player strikes out:

do you
a: sanction the player (in this case a deserved red) and play on as normal, in this case a goal kick as per the rules of association football

or b: point for a goal kick, run up to the schmozzle and then point to the spot as per the voices in kelly's bleached blond little head?

how your defender didnt get a red card for deliberate hand ball in the last man position as the rovers striker was teeing up a shot is a disgrace. if the ref had applied the rules to a niggly game we would have probably got a point.
at least admit you got the rub of the green, we would.

[Dodge]

Maguire did not deserve to be sent off. It wasn't deliberate handball it struck him on the arm...

And apparently TV3 showed last night that the ball wasn't out of play, so therefore a pnalty had to be awarded as I said on the Rovers forum, Kelly did not cost you the game last night. It was the ****e players you have in your team and the bizarre formation (Foley up front? Rutherford full back? Kenny?)

[dfx-]

or b: point for a goal kick, run up to the schmozzle and then point to the spot as per the voices in kelly's bleached blond little head?


This is the point, lads. Not whether it was a penalty or not. Irrespective of any other decisions that anyone thinks Kelly gave us...it does not get away from the fact that he did the above..

If he decided it was a penalty, why run over to it and then make the decision? What difference was it to make by running over there, because he must have not have made his decision...it's like he seen something there that made his decision....................................... :confused: :confused:

I have never seen a penalty be given like that - ever at games I've been to or saw.

That is separate from the handball preventing a goalscoring opportunity from the last man back..

[Dr.Nightdub]

do you
a: sanction the player (in this case a deserved red) and play on as normal, in this case a goal kick as per the rules of association football

or b: point for a goal kick, run up to the schmozzle and then point to the spot as per the voices in kelly's bleached blond little head?

Option (a) obviously. The fact remains that if your player hadn't hit ours in the first place, Kelly wouldn't have heard any little voices. As for running up to the schmozzle, part of his job as ref is to sort out such schmozzles, what's he meant to do, stand by and watch both teams kill each other?

[dfx-]

The referee is there to control all these issues, Dr. Nightdub...

He didn't. He didn't give the penalty - regardless of whether our player shot the Pats striker - immediately as he should do if he thinks it's a penalty. Bad Refereeing 1.

He then ran over and gave the penalty and ran away from the incident. Bad Refereeing 2.

Then a fight ensues between a lot of players and he has lost control of the issue. Bad Refereeing 3.

That is not good enough.

[Réiteoir]

I assume that he ran over to the penalty spot and pointed towards the goal / at the spot for the penalty?

If so - then what Kelly did is correct - that is how we have been instructed to signal for a spot kick from the start of this season by FIFA.


From a Referees Instructor colleague of mine from England:

"Although the instruction at league/contrib is to move towards the Penalty Mark pointing, then take a position to accept the congratulations"

[Roverstillidie]

Option (a) obviously. The fact remains that if your player hadn't hit ours in the first place, Kelly wouldn't have heard any little voices. As for running up to the schmozzle, part of his job as ref is to sort out such schmozzles, what's he meant to do, stand by and watch both teams kill each other?
you are trying to avoid answering the question.
mcdonnell lashed out and deserved to go. but the ball was dead (monday night will clear it up once and for all but i was sure kelly pointed for a goal kick) and as such he actually ran away from the flare up to overrule himself.

you are contradicting yourself on this.

from todays Irish Times:

"But St Patrick's Athletic had the final say when Shamrock Rovers defender Gavin McDonnell kicked out at Seán O'Connor after fouling him inside the area and referee Alan Kelly - who hadn't given the penalty for the initial challenge - pointed to the spot."

voices or not he cannot make that call from that set of circumstances and i hope the rovers board lodge a formal complaint if for no reason other than to hightlight that his father decides if he stays on the premier panel or not.

[dfx-]

I'm looking at it from behind the Pats' keeper on the hill..

He is outside and to the left of the box when the incident happens at the edge of the right hand side of the box. Nothing is given, he then runs across the penalty box to the incident, past the penalty spot and just as he gets to the fallen pat's player, he then points to the spot and runs back across (left) to the penalty spot.

He did not consult any linesman, he did not give the decision as it occurred and he lost any respect I used to have for him before the start of last season.

[Roverstillidie]

I assume that he ran over to the penalty spot and pointed towards the goal / at the spot for the penalty?

If so - then what Kelly did is correct - that is how we have been instructed to signal for a spot kick from the start of this season by FIFA.


From a Referees Instructor colleague of mine from England:

"Although the instruction at league/contrib is to move towards the Penalty Mark pointing, then take a position to accept the congratulations"

read the threads again. that is the fourth thing he did after allowing play to go on after a dive, signalling a goal kick, running to a dust up and running away from it without intervening.

you are a referee, if the ball is dead can you give a penalty for someone throwing a kick?

even the pats players looked embarrassed.

[feo123]

Well the league table never lies so if Cork finish second then they have been the second best team in the country this year-Fact.If they finish 1st then they are the best team in the country-Fact...same for Derry.Cups don't reflect how good are bad a team is,i mean Cork shouldn't have got past the 2nd round of the cup but they had alot of luck and now they'll probably win it.It doesn't matter A face if you think or know if Cork are the best team unless they win the league they aren't no.1 in Ireland.
Yeah, they had a lot of luck in the 1/4 final too! O'Donovan divin all over the place. 1)for the sendin off and... 2)for the penalty!!:mad:

[A face]

It doesn't matter A face if you think or know if Cork are the best team unless they win the league they aren't no.1 in Ireland.

Sorry ... missed this last night .... I'll say one thing ... if we had an on-form striker all year, it would have been well wrapped up by now.

[sfc red]

What an irrelevant remark. If Finn Harps had an on-form team all year, they may have won the league - the fact is you didn't have a prolific striker

[bluemovie]

I'll say one thing ... if we had an on-form striker all year, it would have been well wrapped up by now.

I believe there's a Sligo fan on here whose signature is "If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle". :)

[The Stars]

ya thats sligoman.....and he was quoting our manager Sean Connor

[sligoman]

ya thats sligoman.....and he was quoting our manager Sean ConnorAye, that's me bluemovie:D

[Réiteoir]

read the threads again. that is the fourth thing he did after allowing play to go on after a dive, signalling a goal kick, running to a dust up and running away from it without intervening.

you are a referee, if the ball is dead can you give a penalty for someone throwing a kick?

even the pats players looked embarrassed.

IF the ball is dead at the point of contact - then a penalty kick cannot be awarded - you can send someone off however - but you must restart with a goal kick.

If the ball ISN'T dead at the point that contact is made - but subsequently runs dead - then a penalty CAN be awarded.

We need to see film of this

[Dodge]

IF the ball is dead at the point of contact - then a penalty kick cannot be awarded - you can send someone off however - but you must restart with a goal kick.

If the ball ISN'T dead at the point that contact is made - but subsequently runs dead - then a penalty CAN be awarded.

We need to see film of this
Seen it over the weekend on the TV3 footage. Ball was definitely in play when McDonnell struck O'Connor. Correct decision

[Dr.Nightdub]

you are trying to avoid answering the question.

I'm doing nothing of the sort. If - note, IF - the ball was dead, he should've simply red-carded McDonnell and given the free or kickout, but no peno. I've also pointed out that the opportunity for Kelly to award a peno wouldn't have arisen if your player hadn't been a moron.

I suggest we park this until after eL Weekly tomorrow night.

[wws]

full VT on the pats site

not in doubt

[Réiteoir]

Looks to me from the video that:

a). the defender keeps the ball in play (and clears it)

b). All I see is Kelly pointing at the spot as he comes back, not to the goal kick

c). It looks like the reason he goes over to the incident is to check whether the foul is inside or outside the area

[Dr.Nightdub]

No need to wait until tomorrow night, see here: http://www.stpatsfc.com/video.php

Socky collects the pass, goes down, the ball runs free, Rutherford clears it before it crosses the end line, meanwhile McDonnell belts Socky. The ball was still in play, therefore the peno was a correct decision.

[pineapple stu]

Is this the Robbie Doyle penalty? Just looked at the video there - what's the relevance of the ball being kept in play? If the ball is in play when the foul is committed, then it's a penalty. Whether it's in play when the penalty is given - as some seem to be arguing - is irrelevant surely. Otherwise, you'd have a situation where whenever anybody cut in along the end line, a player would go through ball and man as the ref wouldn't have time to award a penalty before the ball goes out of play.

He definitely goes across to see where the foul was - I used to do that all the time when I was reffing. Better than guessing. There's no awarding of a goal-kick - though it might appear that way as the ref is pointing in much the same direction and the decision is so far after the foul. Can't really tell if it was a fould or not - the video jumps a bit - but if it was, it's a penalty.

[mypost]

Was he even booked? I don't remember him booking him...as far as I could see

Well in fairness, from where you watched the game, you could barely see a thing, never mind who was booked!!

Btw, all bias aside, their penalty was correct. I mean, is McDonnell insane? If you shove an attacking player in the box, you concede a penalty. We're chasing the game, clearing the danger, and he shoves his man in the box. It's a penalty, and a red card too. Ffs, what did he expect? :confused:


Maguire did not deserve to be sent off. It wasn't deliberate handball it struck him on the arm

Yes, he did handle the ball deliberately. If it wasn't deliberate handball, the ref wouldn't have given the free kick. Maguire knew that if O'Connor went past him, it would be 1-1, handing us the initiative. 99 times out of 100, if you concede a free kick, by handling the ball outside the box, you're sent off. Instead of that, our player gets booked for dissent!! :mad:

The incident changed the game. Instead of it been 1-1, and Pats down to 10 men, they go up the other end and score 5 minutes later, to seal their win. It should have been very different. :mad:

[Roverstillidie]

ok, watching the video gives a different perspective to live (great resource on your site, keep that up).
my bias was that kelly had ballsed up the other 3 or 4 key incidents.
maguire had to go, we should have had a penno (apparantly the linesman told the rovers crowd to '**** off' when they gave him stick for not flaging it). yiz are still jammy *******s!!!

[hoops1]

1 free kick for the 1st goal Pats player played for the free
by backing in.
2 Definate sending off last man handles the ball preventing goalscoring
chance Kelly books Rovers player????And lets Maguire off!
3 Pats player takes a dive.Should have been a free out, Player Should have been booked! ball rolls towards the endline making it harder for rovers to clear
no advantage game should have been stopped for the free allowing Rovers to get out of there own half.Then McDonnell pushes? kicks? O Connor
Ref gives a penalty penalising Rovers becasue no advantage occured after the original dive.

Call me biased but I think its more to do with my hatred for that Anders Frisk wannabee for legal reason should remain fatherless!

Im always sick when i see hes refereeing one of our games because
he thinks the game is all about him and does his best to cause controversy

[pineapple stu]

Pats player takes a dive.Should have been a free out
As far as I know, diving isn't a foul. Play should be allowed to continue and the player booked at the next stoppage. So you can't get a free out if an opponent dives.

[Schumi]

Is this the Robbie Doyle penalty? Just looked at the video there - what's the relevance of the ball being kept in play? If the ball is in play when the foul is committed, then it's a penalty. Whether it's in play when the penalty is given - as some seem to be arguing - is irrelevant surely. Otherwise, you'd have a situation where whenever anybody cut in along the end line, a player would go through ball and man as the ref wouldn't have time to award a penalty before the ball goes out of play.
The penalty wasn't given for the challange (I thought it was a foul at the time but looks like a dive on the video there), it was for the Rovers player kicking the Pats player after the ball had gone. The question is whether the ball was in play when that happened.

[Dodge]

Which we know now, isn't in question.

[hoops1]

We all know it wasnt a penalty for the dive!
But it should have been a free out for the dive
Assimilation is a free kick and as Rovers got no advantage from
playing on they should have been giving a free out for the first
offence and McDonell Red carded for striking out

[Dodge]

Wasn't a dive. He fell. Huge dfference. he's not strong enough for this level yet

[hoops1]

Comical:D
It was the furthest fall in the history of football so!:eek:

[Dodge]

Well he's weighs nothing and it was windy...

[Roverstillidie]

Wasn't a dive. He fell. Huge dfference. he's not strong enough for this level yet

dodge, im man enough to admit i called the peno wrong from my spot near the corner flag, so most of my posts on the peno are incorrect. proably because i was as far away from it as you were the handball incident....
do us a favour and acknowledge you got very lucky with the other 3/4 key decisions.
that was a dive. there was a deliberate hand ball. there was a rovers peno against blunders ryan. that was a very dubious free in for the opener.

i remember about 5 years ago we played the sligs in the cup in tolka and tony o'down blatantly pulled down a bog rovers player in a 1 on 1 and got a yellow card. a farcical decision, and we were the first to admit it was.

[Dodge]

1) Honestly would not have sent off Maguire. I don';t think it was delibarate handball
2) Don't remember Ryan pushing anyone. Seriously
3) Free kick was correct
4) Was definitely a dive. read the posts above, how could you not tell i was joking. As was oointed out above, you can't give a free kick for diving...

[wws]

missed the game saw the tv3 highlights - a rovers player blocked a shot on the goal line with his hand in the highlights i saw...nothing given

so in summary: no big conspiracy - team in form beats team with no form and lack of discipline....? i think so

[Jerry The Saint]

:eek:
Assimilation is a free kick

That's only fair I suppose:D

You're all starting to look very desparate if you think that Alan Kelly is a somewhat competent referee who has a bias in favour of Pats and start making a big deal about some decisions that he actually got spot on :confused:

To open another can of worms, what if SRFC had been deducted 14 points instead of the seemingly random 8 points, what if you'd been expelled from the Premier? You should concentrate on the fact that you're very lucky you still have survival in your own hands instead of looking for conspiracy theories to explain how you ended up in this position...

[Roverstillidie]

:eek:

That's only fair I suppose:D

You're all starting to look very desparate if you think that Alan Kelly is a somewhat competent referee who has a bias in favour of Pats and start making a big deal about some decisions that he actually got spot on :confused:

To open another can of worms, what if SRFC had been deducted 14 points instead of the seemingly random 8 points, what if you'd been expelled from the Premier? You should concentrate on the fact that you're very lucky you still have survival in your own hands instead of looking for conspiracy theories to explain how you ended up in this position...

yeah, i recall pats being as philosophical about their point deduction a few years back....
we have had 2 key games on less than a week in which most neutrals say we were mugged by referees. last night was downright farcical.
im not one for conspiracies, but questions have to be answered about some of those decisions.

[Dodge]

Haven't seen one nuetral say you were mugged by any ref in either game. FFS you were 2-0 down in last nights game sbefore anyone was sent off...