First Division Run-In

[bohsmug]

I just don't think second bottom in the Premier Division should be in the playoffs.

They shouldn't be awarded a second bite at the cherry as a result of a season of mediocrity.

It's opinion so fair enough. I think it would be unusual to automatically relegate 20% of the division each year (in European leagues anyway, don't know about the rest of the world). I did find 2 examples though, Albania and Faroes have 10 team leagues with 2 automatically relegated. The rest seem to be closer to 10% automatically (plus a playoff) when the number of teams is small and closer to 15% when the number of teams is 18-20.

I personally don't think it's unfair, although I get that the 9th place team in the premier would be likely to have a budget advantage. In Ireland only the top 8 teams in the country are guaranteed to stay in the top flight, I don't think that's too much. 9th has jeopardy. In this decade so far the 1st division playoff winners have a marginally better record in promotion/relegation playoff than the 9th place team in premier.

[legendz]

Bray v Treaty final coming up on Sunday. Cobh must be sickened after pushing Dundalk for the league title.

[nr637]

Bray v Treaty final coming up on Sunday. Cobh must be sickened after pushing Dundalk for the league title.

The fact that McDermott walked, definetly had an effect on the players. Assistant Richie Holland did not have the same skill on the sidelines to encourage the players. As the first 11 picked itself, the manager's input was vital. Tommy Barrett's expierence on the otyher hand shown throiugh over for the two-leg fixtures as they were well organised and put a plan in place for both games and took advantage of any uncertainty in the Cobh camp.

And it worked.

[legendz]

Bray and Treaty have a 5 day build up for First Division Play-Off Final tomorrow. The winner will have 5 days to get ready for Premier Division Promotion/Relegation Play-Off. Bray favourites but Treaty will be bouyed by their semi final win over one of their Munster rivals.

Waterford lie in wait ahead of the Premier Division Promotion/Relegation Play-Off.

[Neish]

Bray v Treaty final coming up on Sunday. Cobh must be sickened after pushing Dundalk for the league title.

Cobh finished 21 points ahead of Treaty, it would be sickening if Treaty then got promoted from a Cobh fan POV

[Kiki Balboa]

Really enjoyable game between Treaty and Bray.

Both teams look dangerous. Very equal.

[Dermobohs]

Bray it is, have they a fighting chance at Waterford?be tough enough for them bit of quality in that blues side.

[Neish]

Bray it is, have they a fighting chance at Waterford?be tough enough for them bit of quality in that blues side.

From a purely selfish Harps POV i hope Waterford win, trips to Waterford & Cork instead of Dundalk & Bray will add significantly to travel expenses for the club next season which were already well ahead of everyone with the possible exception of Derry

[EatYerGreens]

Bray it is, have they a fighting chance at Waterford?be tough enough for them bit of quality in that blues side.

If Waterford go down there'll be no Munster representation in the top tier next year (and not for the first time). Pretty mad really when you think that 3 of the State's 5 core/largest cities are in Munster.

[Nesta99]

Estimated 6 hours total travel x 2 to Dundalk/Bray this season, 9 hours to Waterford/Cork x 2 so round trip difference of 8 hours x 2 away games each = 16hrs difference. Its not insignificant but impact really depends on scheduling. Some coach companies charged by time rather than milage so a 4 or 8 hour round trip in the evening was full day cost. Dont know whether thats the same now. The other side of things is that those trips have to be reciprocated so there is balance. Get promoted to save money....most trips to Dublin/Drogheda hopefully Dundalk, Sligo and Derry also!!

Its probably stating the obvious based on league position but Bray are more likely to have shot at bating Waterford. Its unlikely but its a 2nd year in a play-off final so that might count for something. Its hard to know which will be the freshest side, Bray have less football and under less pressure but Waterford have been operating under an intensity of must win games for a while now. Drogheda were in PD title form last year and Waterford have been inconsistent at best. Id rather Bray were promoted if Dundalk are and Waterfrod stay up if Dundalk stay in the 1st.

[legendz]

From a purely selfish Harps POV i hope Waterford win, trips to Waterford & Cork instead of Dundalk & Bray will add significantly to travel expenses for the club next season which were already well ahead of everyone with the possible exception of Derry
The opposite for Kerry! The First Division being half a Munster league won't be a bad thing for Kerry. Not that we'd be wishing misfortune on Waterford, who were very welcoming on Kerry's first trip to the RSC. Waterford were understanding of the journey Kerry were on in joining the league.

[ger121]

I fancy Bray a bit against Waterford. If they can keep Amond quiet they have a chance.

[Kiki Balboa]

Fair play to Treaty for giving the play-offs a real good go. Not many names in that team that I would recognise, but they showed up in each of their last 4 play-off games (if you include vs Wexford). Tommy Barrett has to be one of the most underrated managers in the league.

Think Bray have been looking very solid in all the play-off games so far too, they should give Waterford a decent run. Not a super avid watcher - but they look far more complete in these games than their final run of form in the league.

There was big difference in quality between last years final and this. This is a much better Bray team than the one that faced Drogheda, which was largely an uncompetitive game.

I think Sean Brennan has a real shout of being one of the best players in the whole 1st Division. I love watching him play, especially when he is up the pitch and not deep - which is maddening when Bray play him there.

Tolka park a strange venue, would have thought Inchicore or Tallaght would have been better for both sets of travelling fans.

[legendz]

Just watched the playoff final highlights. Cracking goal to win it for Bray. Second year in a row making the promotion relegation playoff. Would see Waterford has strong favourites. Haven't seen Bray as being as strong as the Waterford 2023 side who won promotion via the playoffs.

[MoydowMonty]

From a purely selfish Harps POV i hope Waterford win, trips to Waterford & Cork instead of Dundalk & Bray will add significantly to travel expenses for the club next season which were already well ahead of everyone with the possible exception of Derry

I actually feel so sorry for ye. I'd say ye were happy when Dundalk came down just to have an away day that's at least in the top half of the country. Now they've been replaced with Cork again, the total opposite side of the country. I find it insane that yeer nearest away day is Longford, which is still well over 2 hours away, that's the nearest ye have to a derby.

I'd love to know the ins and outs of fhe club planning these massive away days and what a standard day of that looks like, from the early start to the late end. It must be a huge undertaking. I don't know how ye get a full squad to do that with their standard jobs, school etc.

The one that really got me was wben ye got drawn away to Cork in the cup to be played the week after ye played Cork away in the league, and lost both of them. That would have broken me

[nigel-harps1954]

Estimated 6 hours total travel x 2 to Dundalk/Bray this season, 9 hours to Waterford/Cork x 2 so round trip difference of 8 hours x 2 away games each = 16hrs difference. Its not insignificant but impact really depends on scheduling. Some coach companies charged by time rather than milage so a 4 or 8 hour round trip in the evening was full day cost. Dont know whether thats the same now. The other side of things is that those trips have to be reciprocated so there is balance. Get promoted to save money....most trips to Dublin/Drogheda hopefully Dundalk, Sligo and Derry also!!

Its probably stating the obvious based on league position but Bray are more likely to have shot at bating Waterford. Its unlikely but its a 2nd year in a play-off final so that might count for something. Its hard to know which will be the freshest side, Bray have less football and under less pressure but Waterford have been operating under an intensity of must win games for a while now. Drogheda were in PD title form last year and Waterford have been inconsistent at best. Id rather Bray were promoted if Dundalk are and Waterfrod stay up if Dundalk stay in the 1st.

The obvious extra on a trip to Cork, versus a trip to Dundalk is the required extra stop for the driver on the way home, and often you'll have to take a second driver on board for trips that length.



I actually feel so sorry for ye. I'd say ye were happy when Dundalk came down just to have an away day that's at least in the top half of the country. Now they've been replaced with Cork again, the total opposite side of the country. I find it insane that yeer nearest away day is Longford, which is still well over 2 hours away, that's the nearest ye have to a derby.

I'd love to know the ins and outs of fhe club planning these massive away days and what a standard day of that looks like, from the early start to the late end. It must be a huge undertaking. I don't know how ye get a full squad to do that with their standard jobs, school etc.

The one that really got me was wben ye got drawn away to Cork in the cup to be played the week after ye played Cork away in the league, and lost both of them. That would have broken me

If Waterford beat Bray in the playoff, Harps total travel next season is 11,208km, based on quickest route from Finn Park to each ground on Google Maps, and visiting each ground twice a season.

The next highest total of all the 20 League of Ireland clubs, is Kerry at 8,552km total.

To put that into context, there are six clubs in the Premier Division with a total travel distance that is less than half of Harps total travel distance, and some of the Dublin sides will do barely a third of the travel.

The financial strain of the journey times alone, minus any overnight stays through the whole season, is huge on a club like Harps.

A Bray win in the play-off takes the travel distances for 2026 just 260km shy of 12,000km.

[MoydowMonty]

5600-6000 KM whatever the case. Is that just the travelling to the grounds on their own or including the trip back to Donegal? Presume it's the former

[nigel-harps1954]

5600-6000 KM whatever the case. Is that just the travelling to the grounds on their own or including the trip back to Donegal? Presume it's the former

Actually didn't even calculate the fact we'll be visiting each ground twice. So it's double that again. Have fixed it now.

[Nesta99]

Fair point on driver rest periods, I dont know what the requirement is, Id have thought the 3-4 hours from arrival, during game etc. may have done but I dont know.

[Finlay Harp]

Hard to feel optimistic for next season already Nigel!

[nigel-harps1954]

Fair point on driver rest periods, I dont know what the requirement is, Id have thought the 3-4 hours from arrival, during game etc. may have done but I dont know.

Can't remember what it is exactly but I think they can only drive 4 hours before having to take a 45 minute break. Travelled with the team a couple of times in media roles previously to some of the longer journeys and sat at 24 hour petrol stations at 1 or 2 in the morning on more than one occasion with them for the driver to take their mandatory stop. A trip to the likes of Tralee means getting home at nearly 6am after leaving Ballybofey at 9am.

[Nesta99]

Is flying not at all an option, is it that much more expensive. If lad are PT its a full day off, do clubs cover that anymore beyond the PT wage?

[Neish]

Can't remember what it is exactly but I think they can only drive 4 hours before having to take a 45 minute break. Travelled with the team a couple of times in media roles previously to some of the longer journeys and sat at 24 hour petrol stations at 1 or 2 in the morning on more than one occasion with them for the driver to take their mandatory stop. A trip to the likes of Tralee means getting home at nearly 6am after leaving Ballybofey at 9am.

Think its 5 hours, but I know for working in retail the big delivery trucks drivers have to take these breaks too. They can literally be less than a mile away but have to stop from a break

[nigel-harps1954]

Is flying not at all an option, is it that much more expensive. If lad are PT its a full day off, do clubs cover that anymore beyond the PT wage?

The nearest airport to Ballybofey is either Carrickfinn or Derry airports and they're both an hour drive in the opposite direction.