First Division Run-In

[Nesta99]

Longford do not look beyond this weekend especially and then last day and in to playoffs. Grasp when the iron is hot, in form at the right time going in to playoffs. Forget about next season until next season, its alllllll about beating Cobh until that is done ok!! Enough of the distraction nr:)

[nr637]

Longford do not look beyond this weekend especially and then last day and in to playoffs. Grasp when the iron is hot, in form at the right time going in to playoffs. Forget about next season until next season, its alllllll about beating Cobh until that is done ok!! Enough of the distraction nr:)

I suppose the Longford team are a bit like the perimeter wall that was damaged recently. A bit like their season and now with the run-in it gets repaired! No distraction here Nesta99:o

[Stevie mac]

Lets all appreciate Dundalk for winning a very mediocre division. Im just so glad we won't play it next season. The season after I dont care

[ToberonaTornado]

Lets all appreciate Dundalk for winning a very mediocre division. Im just so glad we won't play it next season. The season after I dont care
You seen to understand the problem . You've gotta get out of that division before you end up in a repetitive rewind matrix kind of like hotel California & shels

Let's see what the off season brings but for right now come on dundalk c'mon the

[MoydowMonty]

Longford's play off dream is dead but the fact we were in a playoff race till the 2nd last game at all is commendable as the season looked dead 6 weeks ago. It has put a nice gloss on the season. A lot of people thought they would finish 9th or 10th and they're nowhere near that, so this is has been an acceptable season on the whole

[listowelceltic]

Congrats Dundalk. Deserving winners.

[legendz]

56 points was enough for UCD to finish 2nd last year. Currently the same number of points has them 4th with a game to go.
Cork won last year with 78 points and a comfortable gap. Dundalk have won in their penultimate game on 76.
2nd and 3rd have been stronger this season. Wexford and Treaty in head to head battle now for the final playoff spot next weekend.

[cobhlad]

Congrats to Dundalk, deserved champions over the course of the season. Hopefully the prize money helps sort out the away end…

Off to the play-offs for Cobh. In 2023 finishing 3rd was a huge success, whereas finishing 2nd two years later feels a disappointment, strange one. Bit more pressure this time as the highest ranked team. A go at the Premier is overdue, hopefully it comes soon.

[outspoken]

Congrats to Dundalk, deserved champions over the course of the season. Hopefully the prize money helps sort out the away end…

Off to the play-offs for Cobh. In 2023 finishing 3rd was a huge success, whereas finishing 2nd two years later feels a disappointment, strange one. Bit more pressure this time as the highest ranked team. A go at the Premier is overdue, hopefully it comes soon.

Don't know what the current prize money is but it used to be around 25k for winning the first division, ya wouldn't install a sink with that let alone do anything major with it

[Nesta99]

35k could build a toilet shedside or away section. Neither will happen, I wished they'd flatten that terrace and add it in to the bar space, people could drink while watching the game and have the Mono type stand run along the Carrick Goal for away fans.

[nigel-harps1954]

35k could build a toilet shedside or away section. Neither will happen, I wished they'd flatten that terrace and add it in to the bar space, people could drink while watching the game and have the Mono type stand run along the Carrick Goal for away fans.

Have often wondered something similar. Why they don't put in a small stand at that end for away fans and extend the home section all the way along the front of the stand.

[oriel]

Congrats to Dundalk, deserved champions over the course of the season. Hopefully the prize money helps sort out the away end…

Off to the play-offs for Cobh. In 2023 finishing 3rd was a huge success, whereas finishing 2nd two years later feels a disappointment, strange one. Bit more pressure this time as the highest ranked team. A go at the Premier is overdue, hopefully it comes soon.

Thank you kind sir, you should have a decent pay day next fri, hundreds of Dundalk fans travelling and loads staying over.

Ah don't get me started on away end, its a disgrace and embarrassing, still say and made point before Shels and Pats also offer not far off same, uncovered terrace for away fans, but at least they have a full view.

Its shocking at OP, toilets also and I personally even looked at an idea this year of a fan group paying for pizza's for away fans in FD home games as it was always going to be modest away crowds, but the club are not engaging with our group. We will still carry on regardless with building up a war chest, they may need us at some point.

Best of luck in play offs, history will tell us PD club will win, but would be great to buck the trend this season with a FD club making a surprise win, one less PD club for us to worry about next season !!!!!!

[oriel]

you seen to understand the problem . You've gotta get out of that division before you end up in a repetitive rewind matrix kind of like hotel california & shels

let's see what the off season brings but for right now come on dundalk c'mon the town !!

[oriel]

35k could build a toilet shedside or away section. Neither will happen, I wished they'd flatten that terrace and add it in to the bar space, people could drink while watching the game and have the Mono type stand run along the Carrick Goal for away fans.

Thats the only solution, flatten it, extend lilywhite lounge to beer garden / coffee spot, build what Pats have behind that goal, semi - perm open seating (it was there for 2 games in 2014 season and looked great) still loads of space behind for cars to drive past to get to YDC - shed side for players gym / dressing rooms / canteen / parking.

[oriel]

Don't know what the current prize money is but it used to be around 25k for winning the first division, ya wouldn't install a sink with that let alone do anything major with it

In 2023 the figure was 36k for FD winners, not sure what Cork C got last year, or what this season will pay.

[outspoken]

Had overheard the bluffer Ainscough shortly before his departure telling someone he was planning on opening a beer garden in that area outside the Lilywhite, given how his attempt at a new disabled zone turned out maybe it's better he didn't get round to it.

[nr637]

Are the First Division Play-off Semi-Finals down for the following Friday 24th October! :confused:

[outspoken]

Are the First Division Play-off Semi-Finals down for the following Friday 24th October! :confused:

They usually start straight away yep

[Neish]

Longford's play off dream is dead but the fact we were in a playoff race till the 2nd last game at all is commendable as the season looked dead 6 weeks ago. It has put a nice gloss on the season. A lot of people thought they would finish 9th or 10th and they're nowhere near that, so this is has been an acceptable season on the whole

Fair play to longford they had a great last quarter of the season. I remember when Harps played Longford in Bishopsgate back at the start of September the LOI TV commentators kept chatting about Longford's playoff chances, at the time I thought these lads are very optimistic. Longford went on the win 4 of the next 5, Harps lost 4 drew one.

[De Town]

Fair play to longford they had a great last quarter of the season. I remember when Harps played Longford in Bishopsgate back at the start of September the LOI TV commentators kept chatting about Longford's playoff chances, at the time I thought these lads are very optimistic. Longford went on the win 4 of the next 5, Harps lost 4 drew one.

Plenty of ifs, buts and maybes for every team I'm sure, but our run of taking 2 points from Kerry, Harps and Wexford around the end of August/start of September has ultimately killed us I think. 3 very winnable games and we didn't win one of them....only for us to go and beat 4 of the top 5 after that. Funny oul game.

[MoydowMonty]

Plenty of ifs, buts and maybes for every team I'm sure, but our run of taking 2 points from Kerry, Harps and Wexford around the end of August/start of September has ultimately killed us I think. 3 very winnable games and we didn't win one of them....only for us to go and beat 4 of the top 5 after that. Funny oul game.

Not even 3 games, it's the Wexford game that has killed us. 2 up then a man sent off and it ends in a draw. I didn't pass much heed at the time because I thought the season was pretty much over, but those dropped 2 points would have had us a point ahead of Wexford going into tomorrow for a 3 way showdown to get 5th. Pity about it, but I'm still really happy at such a strong end to the season.

[nr637]

SSE Airtricity Men's First Division Play-Off Semi-Finals (two-legged, home & away)

2nd place v 5th place
3rd place v 4th place

First legs to take place on Friday October 24th and Second legs to take place onm Tuesday October 28th.
The winners on aggregrate advance.

SSE Airtricity Men's First Division Play-Off Final

The two semi-final winners face off at a neutral venue to be decided depending on participating teams on Sunday November 2nd.

SSE Airtricity Men's Premier Division Promotion/Relegation Play-Off

The winner of the SSE Airtricity Men's First Division Play-Off Final then faces the 9th-placed team in a one-legged Play-Off game on Friday, November 7th at a neutral venue to be decided and depending on the participating teams.





https://www.facebook.com/groups/292512121162625

[legendz]

After all teams have played each 4 times during the regular season, two legged semi finals seems excessive. 2nd could be home to 5th and 3rd at home to 4th in one legged semi finals. The highest ranked finalist on league placing could have home advantage in the final.
It's the promotion relegation playoff that should be over two legs. Two teams who haven't played each over during the regular league season.

[sbgawa]

The two legs allow both teams to make a few bob off the gate so i agree with that tbf.

I like the one off nature of the final to be honest also evens it up a bit for the first division team being a one off.
All the play off finals in the UK are one legged with 2 legged semi finals, not that im saying we should be like them but it is a normal enough format

[Nesta99]

I actually think there should be 2 automatic promotion/relegations and then a playoff final after*. The current system I think works in terms of how the 1st divison sides get there. In the past there would have been an argument for holding the play-off final before the cup final when the Aviva would be half full. I dont think league ranking should come in to the play-off final, giving a significant advantage to the Premier Division side**

*Not when Dundalk are in the Premier Division!!!
**Unless Dundalk are in the play-off final!!!

[nigel-harps1954]

I actually think the promotion/relegation playoff should be done away with altogether and it should be two automatically down and the winner of the First Division playoff promoted.

[Nesta99]

The play-off stinks totally of 'compromise' ie 2 teams down were wanted but the PD teams got that to one automoatically relegated and probably tried to do away with automatic relegation with a playoff for last spot (I actually think that was a proposal from Drogheda, at least for a certain period, until clubs stabilised financially without jeopardy of relegation, maybe its was their All Ireland league proposal, but against UEFA regs).

This isnt a pointed question Nigel, If Harps were in the PD and 2 automatic relegation was being voted on would you vote for if you were club delegate? Even if it was the fairest thing to do I dont think I would if it risked Dundalk. Why progress is so slow in LoI and the league went to the FAI to be run. How many of us would truly not be thinking my club first' in decision making.

[nigel-harps1954]

It really shouldn't be up to the clubs to decide the rules though. Probably one of the reasons the league has been in the doldrums for so long is because the teams have been the ones making the decisions for too long.

[Nesta99]

Turkey's voting for Christmas! Nicely evaded the question lol. I should probably have asked is there anyone who would vote for the best system even if that put your club at greater risk of things like relegation or losing European slots, for the greater good and all that. If things are not done democratically though whats to stop total madness, moving say the likes of Dundalk to the Aviva....or junior clubs dictating how the senior game is runs:eek:

[legendz]

2nd to 5th in the playoffs has achieved the objective of giving more FD clubs a lifeline. Taking all the comments in recent posts into consideration, something like the following could be a tweak:
Quarter final: 4th v 5th over two legs.
Semi finals: 2nd v 3rd over two legs and 9th PD v QF winner over two legs.
Final: Semi final winners in one off game.

The First Division regular season could finish just a week before the Premier Division ends, allowing the two legged quarter final to be played out on the Monday-Friday. 4th and 5th would have a harder slog through the playoffs but that should be fair after finishing lower in the league.

Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne will be playing up to December. If the playoff format above was agreeable, three clubs would be playing a bit deeper into November.

[Stevie mac]

I think after 2 rounds of fixtures , a PD top 6 split play each other 4 times. Point reset to zero but points difference added at the end of the season
Then a bottom 4 of Pd, top 6 fd with points reset to zero and a 20 game home and away with top 4 playing in Pd. Placings

The bottom 4 of the fd can 6 play regional teams for the right to be in the loi.

A complicated format thats like Belgian or Swiss league craic

[2 Year Contract]

I think after 2 rounds of fixtures , a PD top 6 split play each other 4 times. Point reset to zero but points difference added at the end of the season
Then a bottom 4 of Pd, top 6 fd with points reset to zero and a 20 game home and away with top 4 playing in Pd. Placings

The bottom 4 of the fd can 6 play regional teams for the right to be in the loi.

A complicated format thats like Belgian or Swiss league craic

Even taking away from the many reasons as to how bat**** crazy that suggestion is, playing the same teams 6 times plus cup games is absolutely not what the league needs

[legendz]

Even taking away from the many reasons as to how bat**** crazy that suggestion is, playing the same teams 6 times plus cup games is absolutely not what the league needs

Bat crazy is right.

I think the top 5 in the Premier should be guaranteed at least a playoff spot for Europe. 2 or 3 teams, depending on the cup winner, for the final European spot. Could be held at the start of the next season in early February.

Been discussed before though. I accept being in the minority in favour of a European playoff. 😎

[Buckett]

Bat crazy is right.

I think the top 5 in the Premier should be guaranteed at least a playoff spot for Europe. 2 or 3 teams, depending on the cup winner, for the final European spot. Could be held at the start of the next season in early February.

Been discussed before though. I accept being in the minority in favour of a European playoff. 😎
February would be way too late for a Euro playoff. Clubs would have their budgets done long before that

[osarusan]

McDermott leaving Cobh tonight...a bizarre time for that, and can only be good for Treaty.

[ger121]

McDermott leaving Cobh tonight...a bizarre time for that, and can only be good for Treaty.

Well his cryptic social media post on Friday more or less stated he was gone.

[nr637]

love to see Cobh get thru the play-offs and win the Premier spot under Richie Holland now!

[oriel]

I actually think the promotion/relegation playoff should be done away with altogether and it should be two automatically down and the winner of the First Division playoff promoted.

Maybe it would work in 12 team PD but seems a bit harsh for a 10 team div, team finishing 9th auto relegated.

[Eminence Grise]

I dunno, there's a bit of faff in the current set-up. Why should 50% of the teams in the first divison be in with a chance of promotion? Or ninth-placed in the Premier get a bye to the final? Why not PD9 v FD4 and FD2 v FD3 over two legs, winners into the playoff (one fewer game than currently). OK, a first division team misses out on a playoff spot, but the Premier team faces the extra jeopardy of two banana skins and the full attention of the schadenfreude crowd, which makes it fun for neutrals too!:p.

[culloty82]

TBF, the only reasoning behind the FD playoffs is that without them most of the teams would effectively be going through dead rubbers for the final third of the season, your suggestion would work very well though.

[legendz]

I dunno, there's a bit of faff in the current set-up. Why should 50% of the teams in the first divison be in with a chance of promotion? Or ninth-placed in the Premier get a bye to the final? Why not PD9 v FD4 and FD2 v FD3 over two legs, winners into the playoff (one fewer game than currently). OK, a first division team misses out on a playoff spot, but the Premier team faces the extra jeopardy of two banana skins and the full attention of the schadenfreude crowd, which makes it fun for neutrals too!:p.
That is an option. FD4 v FD5 in a quarter final in addition to your suggestion is an option as well. Only requires the First Division finishing a week before the Premier Division.

The current playoff including 2nd to 5th has succeeded in giving more FD clubs a lifeline. That was a big reason for going with it.

[Buckett]

I would doubt that there will be any tinkering until the new tier is in place with promotion to the FD.
I like the idea of PD9 joining the playoffs at the semi-final stage though.

[Eminence Grise]

That is an option. FD4 v FD5 in a quarter final in addition to your suggestion is an option as well. Only requires the First Division finishing a week before the Premier Division.

True, but it's an extra two games and elongates the playoffs.


The current playoff including 2nd to 5th has succeeded in giving more FD clubs a lifeline. That was a big reason for going with it.

I take that point. Out of curiousity, how many clubs who finished fifth have won the playoff? Not being a smart-alec asking: if the answer is as few as one, it offers some support, if not total vindication, for the bar being set at fifth.

[2 Year Contract]

True, but it's an extra two games and elongates the playoffs.



I take that point. Out of curiousity, how many clubs who finished fifth have won the playoff? Not being a smart-alec asking: if the answer is as few as one, it offers some support, if not total vindication, for the bar being set at fifth.

Since 5th place became a playoff spot in 2020, the results are;

2020 Longford (4th place) beat Shels to gain promotion
2021 UCD (3rd place) beat Waterford to gain promotion
2022 Waterford (2nd place) lost to UCD to stay down
2023 Waterford (2nd place) beat Cork to gain promotion
2024 Bray (5th place) lost to Drogheda to stay down

[Nesta99]

I think clubs having something to play for for longer has to be a help to boost gates. The worst season ever in my LoI experience was the (Premier Division) split season where teams in the bottom half that were safe had nothing to play for and crowds bombed. Once an automatic promotion spot is out of reach, no relegation, clubs have so little to play for they should only have players on half season contracts and trim all costs asap. Give a sniff of play-off going in to the last round keeps more clubs and fans invested!? It should do but dont know if the figures were ever looked in to to justify that presumption. So its less about success in the actual play-offs themselves, imo, doing well is a bonus. Its a gimmick but maybe it works. As much as I was against a 10 team PD it is relentless in every game counting, even if the 4th meeting, often far from dull for every side with hardly mid-table safety. Relegation from the 1st Division makes few games dead rubbers in due course too.

[MoydowMonty]

I know full well why 5th place is a play off spot for the reasons given above, but I'm still against it. 5th in a 10 team league means you're not very good, and I don't believe that should earn you a shot at the playoff lottery.

What I'd like to see is a system where if 2nd place finishes a certain amount of points ahead of 3rd (lets say 10 points for arguments sake) then 2nd place just gets a bye to the next round and 5th place are out. Could maybe even do the same with 3rd ahead of 4th, as I don't believe 4th means you're good enough for a playoff either.

Also the final against the 9th premier team should go back to being 2 legs. It was way better craic and it's a much better measure of who the better team truly is

[legendz]

True, but it's an extra two games and elongates the playoffs.
It does but if the FD4 v FD5 quarter final is on the Monday and Friday that the Premier is finishing, the quarter final winner will be decided in time to take on PD9 in a semi final.

[bohsmug]

It's less gates overall but for me if you're keeping a system where 5th place gets a playoff spot then it should be 1-leg semi finals. 2nd is at home to 5th, 3rd is at home to 4th. That means every qualifying position counts. For the final you could play it at a neutral venue but I'd be in favour of giving home advantage to whoever finished higher in the table, most likely the team who finished 2nd as they'd have the easiest task in their semi final. If 5th were to qualify for the promotion/relegation playoff they are at a genuine disadvantage and would have to do it the hard way with 2 away games against teams that finished higher than them in the table.

--

So if the 1st division table finished as it is now it's:

SF1: (2nd)Cobh v (5th)Treaty - St Colman's Park
SF2: (3rd)Bray v (4th)UCD - Carlisle Grounds


For simplicity's sake let's say the home teams win. The final is:

(2nd) Cobh v (3rd)Bray - St Colman's Park

--

The first division playoff decides who represent the "promotion" aspect of the promotion/relegation playoff.

I don't agree that the team who finish 9th in the premier division should enter the first division playoffs. Your place in the premier division table dictates who represents the "relegation" aspect of the promotion/relegation playoff.
The first division playoffs were introduced as a means to negate some issues in the first division. The system is close to making sense, with competitive integrity.

[nigel-harps1954]

I just don't think second bottom in the Premier Division should be in the playoffs.

They shouldn't be awarded a second bite at the cherry as a result of a season of mediocrity.

[Nesta99]

I know full well why 5th place is a play off spot for the reasons given above, but I'm still against it. 5th in a 10 team league means you're not very good, and I don't believe that should earn you a shot at the playoff lottery.

What I'd like to see is a system where if 2nd place finishes a certain amount of points ahead of 3rd (lets say 10 points for arguments sake) then 2nd place just gets a bye to the next round and 5th place are out. Could maybe even do the same with 3rd ahead of 4th, as I don't believe 4th means you're good enough for a playoff either.

Also the final against the 9th premier team should go back to being 2 legs. It was way better craic and it's a much better measure of who the better team truly is

I wasnt trying to point out the obvious but more suggesting an alternative assessment of success - even if zero 5th place clubs progressed then the system could still be vindicated if success is broader ie more money directly and indirectly, increased fan engagement etc. Not one for the footballing purists but maybe superficially pragmatic in a financially struggling division.

The play-off lottery can help break a trend now and again of the relegated sides being financially able to dominate and form can count over finances.