First Division Run-In

[Kiki Balboa]

This is the thing. Universidad de Chile get avg 6K +, Universiatea Craiova get 13K+. Have UCD ever had 500 fans?

I really feel the South-East of the City is crying out for a team that is already there, if it was just linked together.

The biggest gripe I would have is Belfield is not easy to get too, because its so deep in the city.

To be fair, last time I was in UCD, there did seem to a lot of kids about, and they even had a drum. Pretty sure there were lads with a drum last Friday too. They brought more away fans than some clubs to Oriel this year.

From a football nerd point of view... It is an interesting time for UCD. The LOI is changing, and their once niche of basically being the one-stop bridge of young players to senior football in LOI is no longer the case as football development in the country has radically changed.

At the same time, reading from here (and other online activity), they seem to have a deeper local connection now, especially helped with underage LOI teams and their link-up with Mt. Marrion.

They have a great history and added a lot to LOI, and their presence in the league give it a nice oddity. They win their spots in the leagues based on performance.

I hope they can continue to develop.

[pineapple stu]

This is the thing. Universidad de Chile get avg 6K +, Universiatea Craiova get 13K+. Have UCD ever had 500 fans?
They're different clubs in fairness. Universidad de Chile is one of the oldest clubs in Chile, joining the top flight six years after the league was founded. They haven't had a formal link with the college in 40+ years.

I don't know Craiova's exact link with the college, but given they signed a Palestine international for €700k from a Polish top flight side in pre-season, I imagine it's relatively tenuous, a bit like a lot of the Communist clubs linked with trades (Lokomotiv, CSKA, etc) - even like the Springfield Nuclear Power Plant softball team). I guess they're also helped by being the only top team in a regional city.

UCD are quite an old side too of course, but we were non-league until 1979 when non-league was really quite casual/social (a lot of works teams for example). By 1979, a lot of family supporter alliances had been formed, and of course at that time we had Shamrock Rovers right on the doorstep.

The south-east city thing is easier said than done, as Cabo and even Bray have shown. We just don't have the money to challenge and get enough interest that way. You're right that the academy setup is a big change for UCD - though in fairness we're still well up there in terms of the academy leagues (surprisingly so, given Rovers should have underage all sewn up). A decent record in the UEFA Youth League shows that - not only reaching it twice, but taking Haaland to penalties and getting through a round last year, only the second LoI side to do that.

Equally I feel the divide between the Premier and First has never been bigger - not just for us, but for Athlone, Longford, Kerry, Cobh, Treaty, etc. For about the first time since I've been going to LoI games we seem to have the ten biggest sides in the Premier and the ten smallest sides in the First (Dundalk the exception - I guess there's 11 big sides and 9 small ones). UEFA Solidarity funding is increasing the gap too of course. If we go up (which isn't impossible) it's hard to see how we could stay up.

[Martinho II]

i for one dont mind UCD at all being in the LOI. So many ex players coming thro their ranks. Public transport wise I never had issues headin out to Belfield Bowl.
Its one of the few grounds that I actually know a lot of their fanbase from the time One F in Longford and STIG had their bi annual games on pitch at HT! I know that theres challenges with tryin to grow their fanbase with so many LOI clubs right on their doorstep. My club and UCD would have a lot in common in challenges in trying to grow the fanbase. What more can you do?

[CorribsideSteve]

While I full agree with the merit side of things, it seems reasonable to me that at some point in the future they should have to justify the fact that they have literally almost no fanbase at all. Re Athlone - worst team in the country by a mile, with the town drowning in apathy over its men's senior team, Longford have been in the doldrums for 2 decades now, reasonably justifiable low attendances for both these sides. UCD are perennially in the hunt for promotion with a legacy of being the League's feeder club and yet the Bowl only fills up adequately solely from away fans presence.

[pineapple stu]

We did have to justify it in 2006. You might remember it - we were actually runners-up in the "justify yourselves" exercise to Galway's DVD.

I don't think any club ever has to justify such things though - other than how well you play football. That we lasted so long in the Premier was a bit of an embarrassment to clubs who should have been there instead of us (Galway being one) - but as clubs have gotten their stuff together (and started racking up record losses too I think), we're in the First now, and that's fine.

There's lots of smaller capital city clubs around Europe. It's nothing unusual.

[CraftyToePoke]

Not to mention the incredible talent UCD has produced for the entire league down the years

Exactly this, they're a vital part of the league ecosystem, consistently. There are so many things you can legitimately lay into our league about, UDC, their ground or lack of fans or whatever is not one or shouldn't be anyway. They are competitive, they don't implode, they get promoted now & again. They're grand.

[Nesta99]

We did have to justify it in 2006. You might remember it - we were actually runners-up in the "justify yourselves" exercise to Galway's DVD.

I don't think any club ever has to justify such things though - other than how well you play football. That we lasted so long in the Premier was a bit of an embarrassment to clubs who should have been there instead of us (Galway being one) - but as clubs have gotten their stuff together (and started racking up record losses too I think), we're in the First now, and that's fine.

There's lots of smaller capital city clubs around Europe. It's nothing unusual.

DVDs again ffs like...

[John83]

Oh god, not this crap again. UCD has a small fanbase, yes, but I've never heard of a creditor or a player unpaid, unlike many of our betters. I've never seen us begging with buckets to keep the lights on. I've never seen us go bankrupt and reform under a new name, ****ing over no end of creditors. The fact that a club that small can go toe-to-toe with the rest of ye just goes to show how small the rest of the league is, how pathetically badly run, and conversations like this show that small-minded jealousy runs deep in the league. Grow your clubs and leave UCD in the dust; until you can do that, all you're doing is making a show of yourselves.

[pineapple stu]

I think it's worth noting the financial state of the league in our last year in the Premier btw (https://bsky.app/profile/chippie1974.bsky.social/post/3lbjlqi7rds2e) - Rovers lost €2m, three other clubs lost more than a million, Cork lost €700k, and everyone else lost between €100k and €400k. To be honest, it's to our credit (and the league's incompetence - Waterford's especially) that we've spent half of the seasons between 2018 and 2023 (the six at that link) in the Premier, at a time when the average club lost €250k per season, even with European money. (Ironically, the only time profits were turned overall was the two covid seasons)

It seems reasonable to me that at some point in the future clubs should have to justify the fact that they have literally almost no financial cop-on at all. Because we know which issue has been a bigger problem for the LoI down the decades.

If UCD had a Garrett Kelleher/Dermot Desmond/Philip O'Doherty/Comer Brothers/Fleetwood United/Trivela/Dermot Usher involved, we'd be quite good. But we don't.

[outspoken]

While I full agree with the merit side of things, it seems reasonable to me that at some point in the future they should have to justify the fact that they have literally almost no fanbase at all. Re Athlone - worst team in the country by a mile, with the town drowning in apathy over its men's senior team, Longford have been in the doldrums for 2 decades now, reasonably justifiable low attendances for both these sides. UCD are perennially in the hunt for promotion with a legacy of being the League's feeder club and yet the Bowl only fills up adequately solely from away fans presence.

Longford have been promoted twice in the last 11 years and been involved in the playoffs in most other seasons, wouldn't call that being in the doldrums. What have Galway United won in the last 30 years?

Like UCD, we've Also never missed a payment of wages over the last 10 or 15 years, we've never dropped out of the league and had to change our name.

[Neish]

The real battle will be Treaty vs Harps for the final playoff spot as I think UCD are far enough ahead of both and probably the most ideal remain fixtures to confirm their playoff place

I ahh stand corrected. Harps hit a poor run just when it was most important, and the infuriating thing about it was they brought it on themselves for the most part with silly errors and lapses in concentration

Still hard to see anyone but Dundalk take the first division title but would love to see Cobh get promoted one way or the other.

[pineapple stu]

I know Cobh have had to live in Cork's shadow mostly, but it's still mental how few Premier seasons they have. It'd be hard to begrudge them a promotion alright (murky ownership/flirtation with insolvency this year aside I guess)

[Neish]

I know Cobh have had to live in Cork's shadow mostly, but it's still mental how few Premier seasons they have. It'd be hard to begrudge them a promotion alright (murky ownership/flirtation with insolvency this year aside I guess)

This season in my 30th regularly attending Finn Park and LOI games, Harps were (if I'm counting right) in the Premier for 12 of those but I struggled to recall more than 3 or 4 when Cobh weren't in First division

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, they've had just four Premier Division seasons, and were relegated in three of those.

(They also had three seasons in the A Championship and one season out of senior football entirely, which technically count as not being in the First Division!)

[Hitman]

If UCD had a ... Dermot Usher involved, we'd be quite good.

I wouldn't count on it.

[pineapple stu]

Touché!

Maybe just his money so

[Glen Of Aherlow]

I really feel the South-East of the City is crying out for a team that is already there, if it was just linked together.

The biggest gripe I would have is Belfield is not easy to get too, because its so deep in the city.

To be fair, last time I was in UCD, there did seem to a lot of kids about, and they even had a drum. Pretty sure there were lads with a drum last Friday too. They brought more away fans than some clubs to Oriel this year.

From a football nerd point of view... It is an interesting time for UCD. The LOI is changing, and their once niche of basically being the one-stop bridge of young players to senior football in LOI is no longer the case as football development in the country has radically changed.

At the same time, reading from here (and other online activity), they seem to have a deeper local connection now, especially helped with underage LOI teams and their link-up with Mt. Marrion.

They have a great history and added a lot to LOI, and their presence in the league give it a nice oddity. They win their spots in the leagues based on performance.

I hope they can continue to develop.

Was at the playoff match in Richmond a few years back when UCD beat Waterford . Was chatting to an elderly man beside me and he was talking about the LOI years ago.

He pointed to a group of young lads down the front of the stand , said they're from Mount Merrion and go to UCD games regularly and two of them were grandsons of his .

He was telling me how he thought it was great and a good social outlet for youngsters when the lads launched into a chorus of 'F**K off back to the first division' towards the Waterford fans .

His face was a picture .

[Nesta99]

While I full agree with the merit side of things, it seems reasonable to me that at some point in the future they should have to justify the fact that they have literally almost no fanbase at all. Re Athlone - worst team in the country by a mile, with the town drowning in apathy over its men's senior team, Longford have been in the doldrums for 2 decades now, reasonably justifiable low attendances for both these sides. UCD are perennially in the hunt for promotion with a legacy of being the League's feeder club and yet the Bowl only fills up adequately solely from away fans presence.


Longford have been promoted twice in the last 11 years and been involved in the playoffs in most other seasons, wouldn't call that being in the doldrums. What have Galway United won in the last 30 years?

Like UCD, we've Also never missed a payment of wages over the last 10 or 15 years, we've never dropped out of the league and had to change our name.


This season in my 30th regularly attending Finn Park and LOI games, Harps were (if I'm counting right) in the Premier for 12 of those but I struggled to recall more than 3 or 4 when Cobh weren't in First division

Move on lads, Galway fans dont do history except when it suits!

[ger121]

I’ve said it on here before but for years I was one of those guys who thought UCD have no place in the league. However, my views on that have changed as I have gotten older and wis…Well older at least. As others have said, clubs deserve to be where they are on based on merit and UCD could very well end up in the PO final vs. the PD side.

[Roones26]

I just dont know enough about the finances of UCD to know if it is a fair comparison to other clubs i.e are they completely separate from the University or does UCD underwrite the losses made by the club ?

[pineapple stu]

Don't think the college underwrite losses at all - they'd probably keep a closer eye on finances than any LoI club is subject to to be honest

There's obviously a rent-free ground and stuff like that, but a lot of Local Councils will do similar deals for their LoI teams.

[CorribsideSteve]

Longford have been promoted twice in the last 11 years and been involved in the playoffs in most other seasons, wouldn't call that being in the doldrums. What have Galway United won in the last 30 years?

Like UCD, we've Also never missed a payment of wages over the last 10 or 15 years, we've never dropped out of the league and had to change our name.
I never said Galway were overflowing with history, but while Longford have indeed enjoyed promotions, theyve been short stays, and that aside, they have spent the vast majority of the last 15 years in the 1st division. And then, in that case maybe its no surprise that there are low crowds. Galway struggled with crowds of 500 (or less) too once upon a time (especially around the time of Nick Leeson) so there's no immunity afforded to us as a result. Our own two season stint back up is in high jeapordy, so I get the 'whatabout' angle.

[Roones26]

Don't think the college underwrite losses at all - they'd probably keep a closer eye on finances than any LoI club is subject to to be honest

There's obviously a rent-free ground and stuff like that, but a lot of Local Councils will do similar deals for their LoI teams.

I suppose what I mean is the gap between what the club brings in and it costs to run the club, the college puts in ?

[John83]

I suppose what I mean is the gap between what the club brings in and it costs to run the club, the college puts in ?
****, no.

[pineapple stu]

I suppose what I mean is the gap between what the club brings in and it costs to run the club, the college puts in ?
Collie O'Neill had a podcast interview after his surprisingly acrimonious sacking in 2019. He said the college put up for a few scholarships and obviously facilities (not small in itself, but equally peanuts to the backing other clubs get), and the club was on its own after that.

[osarusan]

Who was it that said years ago something along the lines of "UCD isn't the problem, everything else is"?

And it's still the case TBH. A uni club with a very small fanbase shouldn't be near promotion from Div 1, but there they are, 10 points ahead of Treaty, the only LOI club in Ireland's 3rd biggest city, and with a huge potential fanbase. They're where they are on merit, even if that often comes from other clubs chronically underachieving and mismanaging.

Anyhow, the final playoff spot now looks like being between us and Wexford as it stands. Tasty final game of the season.

Still an absurdity that half of the division is in the playoffs though. Treaty are utter muck, and I can only assume the clubs lower down the table are that bit more utter muck.

[Nesta99]

There is no reason why a small well run club, that recruits young players very well and have good coaches cannot do well and punch above their weight. There are countless examples Eibar in Spain is one, a club and town that would be mid sized even by Irish standards playing in La Liga. There are a number of clubs in England playing or have played top flight football that didnt have a whole lot in actual and relative terms but grew incrementally. I doubt anyone would say that UCD cant grow their fan base - a run to a cup final, qualify for Europe in the current climate of cool LoI and they could well grow their following. I would agree that they have seemed pretty passive about promoting themselves as a collegiate team, a rarity in football to be playing at the higest national level - a real something Trinity student's will never have!! and make that a part of being a UCD student for example, nothing stopping tapping in to their catchement either - concessions for having smelly students on their doorstep.

Maybe we talk about potential too much, it means little enough unless its tapped in to, but UCD have a greater chance of tapping in to potential as a proven senior club that a whole lot of the mooted new senior clubs in a 3rd divsion. This is before we even consider UCDs role in facilitating many other clubs with their alumni, with a bottom up system of player development and recruitment. Their stability is proven with or without the univerity's involvement, thats irrelevant tbh. Even if it were the case, having a wealthy benefactor isnt an issue except for those who dont have one, like Longford (Im only using that example because a Longford fan raised the question over UCD). Shels were multiple champions in front of hundreds rather than thousands of fans for a long time.

I respect UCD AFC, that is born out by the fact that they are seen as a fecking nuisance and that is just from Dundalk fans' probably irrational sense that they are a bit of a bogey side for us. It is a meritocracy within the league structure and hence people deserve to be where they are. Doesnt mean you have to like the UCD Bowl or Oriel Park or wherever. Longford are lacking proper buy in from the locality for quite a while but I wouldnt question their place in LoI. I tend to think support should be through think and thin, ala Sligo Rovers fans. A lot of the rest of us deal with high levels of fickleness or indifference, support following success rather than helping to facilitate it. UCD have a low base they can build given the right opportunity. The rest of us have a task to turn fickle glory hunters in to a hardcore base to be as sustainable as UCD and that is a real tough task. Credit to Bohs on this for all the tongue in cheek swipes at their bee keepers.

[Nesta99]

And I suspect a majority of fans share that view

Especially since we stopped beating teams with fans

Offff - low blow;)

[LTFC]

And back to the playoffs.
While it looks like 4 in the running for 5th, in reality its Treaty and Wexford. If Longford fail to pick up 3 points in Limerick that is us cooked. Wexford have UCD and Kerry next 2 games before facing Treaty. Treaty in Bray for second last fixture so will want to be ahead of Wexford before the last round away.

Wheels came off a bit for Harps. so unless they beat Dundalk Friday there outside chance is gone.

[MoydowMonty]

And back to the playoffs.
While it looks like 4 in the running for 5th, in reality its Treaty and Wexford. If Longford fail to pick up 3 points in Limerick that is us cooked. Wexford have UCD and Kerry next 2 games before facing Treaty. Treaty in Bray for second last fixture so will want to be ahead of Wexford before the last round away.

Wheels came off a bit for Harps. so unless they beat Dundalk Friday there outside chance is gone.

The fact that Longford are 6 points out with 3 games left is commendable in my opinion. Fully expected us to finish bottom 2 at the start of season. To be in this position is an improvement on last year for sure

[Nesta99]

Longford have shown progress, especially the latter part of the season. Keep the same bunch together, strengthen with a few lads and if that momentum can be carried in to next season then they should be good play-off place candidates. Cork obviously will be expected to bounce back, another premier side gets relegated the same, but a top 4 isnt impossible. UCD seemed to improve as the season went on also.

[LTFC]

Longford have shown progress, especially the latter part of the season. Keep the same bunch together, strengthen with a few lads and if that momentum can be carried in to next season then they should be good play-off place candidates. Cork obviously will be expected to bounce back, another premier side gets relegated the same, but a top 4 isnt impossible. UCD seemed to improve as the season went on also.

Very young and chances are the best will move up the chain, buts that football. Manager staying, and club wanting manager to stay is good at least, but at the moment best we could hope for would be in play off hunt next season. Although, amazing what the 2 wins do for confidence of supporters - if we were still in with a shout after Friday we could have a very nice crowd for Cobh game the following week.

[Roones26]

Bottom third of the division have all been relatively competitive this year Athlone excluded

[Nesta99]

Very young and chances are the best will move up the chain, buts that football. Manager staying, and club wanting manager to stay is good at least, but at the moment best we could hope for would be in play off hunt next season. Although, amazing what the 2 wins do for confidence of supporters - if we were still in with a shout after Friday we could have a very nice crowd for Cobh game the following week.

Maybe they'll move but many may stay, you cant beat game time at senior level at a young age. At season start, looking at the age profile of the Dundalk squad, it didnt look like a side that would be top all season, too young, too inexperienced, new manager etc. Im glad it hasnt turned out to be a total bust but if it had been it was still a longer term build from academy project. Its undoubted that we got some luck there with the payers coming through but maybe thats also why a slow build was what was said at the time, with hope of promotion more than a full on target regardless of what was said especially by some fans.

[nr637]

Great battle now between Treaty, Wexford & Longford for the final first division play-off spot. Longford have found a bit of form with some good results recently, Treaty seem to be struggling for a win while Wexford have no consisitency with their form!

[LTFC]

Great battle now between Treaty, Wexford & Longford for the final first division play-off spot. Longford have found a bit of form with some good results recently, Treaty seem to be struggling for a win while Wexford have no consisitency with their form!

If you had told us at start of the season we'd still be in hunt for playoffs with just 2 games to go we'd have been delighted with that. Still unlikely, Cobh in Longford Friday, and they are still in with a shout of top spot, but we live in hope!

[Nesta99]

Yeah well Dundalk are actually in top spot and you rolled us over! I am unashamedly asking for Longford to finish the job for us just in case we drop points against Harps. The only reason Im not stating that I think Lonford are more likely to beat Cobh than Dundalk beating Harps is because it would look like really bad glass half empty stuff. But its actually possible and I could do without a last night showdown!

[nr637]

Yeah well Dundalk are actually in top spot and you rolled us over! I am unashamedly asking for Longford to finish the job for us just in case we drop points against Harps. The only reason Im not stating that I think Lonford are more likely to beat Cobh than Dundalk beating Harps is because it would look like really bad glass half empty stuff. But its actually possible and I could do without a last night showdown!

Tough game for Cobh at Longford next alright, with them showning some progress in recent weeks, while Dundalk should get a big home turnout and get the result needed against Harps!

[outspoken]

Reckon Longford will get points off Cobh, Sean Moore being out could be the difference between one point and three though.

[sbgawa]

If it does come down to a winner takes all match Cobh v Dundalk i wonder would Virgin show it?
IMO better than a premier league match when its all wrapped up.
Fair enough European places to play for and Play offs to avoid but a one off Promotion playoff would be worth watching....
Itll be on loitv for us diehards anyway

[oriel]

I think Dundalk will finish the job on Friday v FH, a win of course does it, or match or better the Cobh result same.

Seemingly there are up to 4 or 500 heading to Cobh in any case, good few of my crew going, hotel we booked months ago now full up (Commodore), really looking forward to the day out. If we mess up v FH and it goes to the last day it will add to the spice of the occasion, not that I want that, but still its a parachute.

Christ though we are making hard work of this, still have to be thankful mind, as Mid Sept 2024 wasn't too long away and we were hours off going out of business, imagine then thinking if we had to win second last game of the next season and at home to win promotion, snap it off with both hands stuff.

We shall see how it pans out.

[Neish]

I think Dundalk will finish the job on Friday v FH, a win of course does it, or match or better the Cobh result same.

Seemingly there are up to 4 or 500 heading to Cobh in any case, good few of my crew going, hotel we booked months ago now full up (Commodore), really looking forward to the day out. If we mess up v FH and it goes to the last day it will add to the spice of the occasion, not that I want that, but still its a parachute.

Christ though we are making hard work of this, still have to be thankful mind, as Mid Sept 2024 wasn't too long away and we were hours off going out of business, imagine then thinking if we had to win second last game of the next season and at home to win promotion, snap it off with both hands stuff.

We shall see how it pans out.

Given Harps form the last 5 or 6 weeks I'd imagine Dundalk will have it wrapped up friday night

[sbgawa]

An unlikely win for Harps in Oriel followed up by a home win against Kerry on Monday would have them playing at home on the last day agaisnt UCD where another win would see them go above Wexford and Treaty assuming wexford and treaty lose thiis weekend and draw when they play each other on the last day...................theres a long odds accumelator in there ;).

Bottom line a win in Oriel while probably very very unlikely puts them on the fringes of a possible play off place.
You can be sure the manager will be telling them that. Spirit of Ollie

[nr637]

Given Harps form the last 5 or 6 weeks I'd imagine Dundalk will have it wrapped up friday night

I reckon Dundalk will have it wrapped up in the first 15 minutes as Finn Harps defence is very poor and very suspect with crosses. Ramblers inflicted fierce pressure on them last week as they realised how poor they were at defending down the wings!

[oriel]

Longford have won 3 on the spin, including a fully deserved 3-1 win against us, if they win their last 2 including Cobh game, they can nick final play off spot.

Puts another spin on things.

Think I`d prefer a win v FH and not have to worry about anything else mind!

[thebronze14]

An unlikely win for Harps in Oriel followed up by a home win against Kerry on Monday would have them playing at home on the last day agaisnt UCD where another win would see them go above Wexford and Treaty assuming wexford and treaty lose thiis weekend and draw when they play each other on the last day...................theres a long odds accumelator in there ;).

Bottom line a win in Oriel while probably very very unlikely puts them on the fringes of a possible play off place.
You can be sure the manager will be telling them that. Spirit of Ollie

We didn't show the spirit of Ollie when we blew a 2 1 lead aganst ten man Bray or allowed a defender who never scored before a second half hattrick all in the space of 4 days. It's over and our players have the flip flops on

[sbgawa]

Work Work Work

[LTFC]

For us to be in with a shout of playoffs is great. It never looked likely at any stage this season, until now - still unlikely as this a massive game for Cobh too. Really looking forward to Friday.

[legendz]

Longford are finishing a season strong for the second year in a row.

[nr637]

Longford are finishing a season strong for the second year in a row.

But can Longford start a season strong next year instead! :)