Armenia v Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 9 September 2025 - 2026 World Cup Qualifier

[Fixer82]

We lack something in midfield but more importantly we lack something psychologically.

Agree with this.

It’s been this way for a long time. For quite some time we’ve always found it tough in Eastern Europe with a partisan crowd against us and just seemed unable to handle it.

Many times in the past we got away with murder against small teams away with last minute goals, or jammy goals.

This is not a surprise. It’s very disappointing.

[Crosby87]

I remember the excitement at times in the 90s and now reasonable conversation on here and across all socials about disbanding the team....we wouldn't have believed it.

[seanfhear]

Two wins against Portugal could put the cat in a hat ! !

[The Fly]

Here we go now…with the ‘transfer value’ of the Irish players.

[Eirambler]

The scoreline flattered us.

We were abysmal in defence, invisible in midfield, impotent in attack.

Only Kelleher can come out with any credit. It could have been a couple more without him.

With 10-15 minutes to go, and 2-1 down, why in the world are we bringing on a full back and a lad who forms the centre of a St Mirren low block?

All we had was to throw it or lump it into the box, and we didn't even do that with any organisation.

Genuinely atrocious. As somebody who was very critical of Stephen Kenny from an earlier stage than most, I'd say that rivalled any of Kenny's terrible efforts.

We have two players. A d̶e̶f̶e̶n̶d̶e̶r̶ goalkeeper and a striker. We might have another forward but he's injured. We have a centre back who should be good enough but goes to pieces when he plays for his country. There's nothing else there.

[rebelmusic]

Two wins against Portugal could put the cat in a hat ! !

You know Hungary are going to win tonight. Wouldn't shock me if we bottomed out in this group

[Trequartista20]

May as well play a LoI eleven or the U-21s for the rest of the campaign.

Gross incompetence and corruption from the FAI for many years bearing its fruits.

Sums up the nation in many ways.

[pineapple stu]

We have two players. A defender and a striker. We might have another forward but he's injured. We have a centre back who should be good enough but goes to pieces when he plays for his country. There's nothing else there.

Did you mean a keeper and a striker?

[Eirambler]

Did you mean a keeper and a striker?

I did indeed.:)

[pineapple stu]

I did indeed.:)

Whew!

The only two who did anything tonight

I've said before our team is crap and there's absolutely a bias in us that we view them better than they are

But still we shouldn't be getting hammered by Armenia like that

I don't know where we go from here tbh. I guess relegation to League C is the next thing to tick off

[Nesta99]

But sadly our domestic clubs are incapable of producing the standard of players we require so we have no option but to export them. They play in Ireland, then they go abroad and it takes 18 months minimum for them to get up anywhere near the required standard. Our clubs have no money to improve and football will never be a government priority in a western first world nation.

I disagree, the players can and are produced, but many see the pathway to career development in lower English leagues and Scotland. Its very obvious for decades that the development of LoI is key to the international teams development. Player retention is becoming more and more important for LoI in terms of supporting our international side, we will lose the best but we can retai the rest and change the mindset that unless you leave LoI you wont be picked for Ireland. Our issue tonight seemed to be an inability to build a team, not necessarily fitting players that happen to play at higher ranked clubs in to some cobbled together system. Its like because we have a bunch of EPL defenders we need to play them. In terms of integrating LoI based players im not necessarily talking now, but it should be part of the development of the game - build the league build the player pool and the international side.

[Colbert Report]

Heimir Hallgrímsson defiant in the post match interview, tough to watch this guy.

[Colbert Report]

Haha he got asked about bringing a shrink in to coach the team. Jesus wept.

[The Fly]

Heimir Hallgrímsson defiant in the post match interview, tough to watch this guy.
You must’ve watched a different interview. He was hardly defiant.

[Eirambler]

I disagree, the players can and are produced, but many see the pathway to career development in lower English leagues and Scotland. Its very obvious for decades that the development of LoI is key to the international teams development. Player retention is becoming more and more important for LoI in terms of supporting our international side, we will lose the best but we can retai the rest and change the mindset that unless you leave LoI you wont be picked for Ireland. Our issue tonight seemed to be an inability to build a team, not necessarily fitting players that happen to play at higher ranked clubs in to some cobbled together system. Its like because we have a bunch of EPL defenders we need to play them. In terms of integrating LoI based players im not necessarily talking now, but it should be part of the development of the game - build the league build the player pool and the international side.

But they're not though. Who was the last player to leave the league of Ireland and walk straight into a starting 11 anywhere in the top two divisions in England or a team of equivalent strength further afield? Daryl Horgan 10 years ago maybe. And let's face it he was nowhere near good enough at international level.

We're in an awful mess, but there's no point being delusional or using the situation to push agendas that aren't grounded in reality either.

If these players had come through a system where they were properly coached they'd be able to play quick five and 10 yard passes consistently and open up defenses like Armenia no problem. But they can't because of crap systems and crap coaching since they were kids.

That's why we only produce goalkeepers, centre backs and centre forwards. Because in Ireland we can't even coach our kids to competently pass the ball.

[RiffRaff]

Outfought, outrun, outplayed and utterly humiliated by a team who showed they care about representing their country. I don't expect Ireland to be the best but I do expect players to run, chase,throw their bodies on the line and today we had people jogging, half hearted tackles and hiding.

[The Fly]

Haha he got asked about bringing a shrink in to coach the team. Jesus wept.
One of the things I look forward to is an Irish manager putting Tony O’Donoghue in his box.

[Nesta99]

Heimir Hallgrímsson defiant in the post match interview, tough to watch this guy.

Yeah Im just glad it wasnt watching Stephen Kenny having to deal with this post match interview- that would actually be tough to watch!!

[brine3]

I disagree, the players can and are produced, but many see the pathway to career development in lower English leagues and Scotland. Its very obvious for decades that the development of LoI is key to the international teams development. Player retention is becoming more and more important for LoI in terms of supporting our international side, we will lose the best but we can retai the rest and change the mindset that unless you leave LoI you wont be picked for Ireland. Our issue tonight seemed to be an inability to build a team, not necessarily fitting players that happen to play at higher ranked clubs in to some cobbled together system. Its like because we have a bunch of EPL defenders we need to play them. In terms of integrating LoI based players im not necessarily talking now, but it should be part of the development of the game - build the league build the player pool and the international side.

Yeah the English leagues are grinding up our players and spitting them out.

Players need to stay in Ireland longer (did Roy Keane no harm), and if they go overseas, go somewhere where they can play football and develop. O'Brien to France, Parrott to Holland. They went to selling clubs overseas, it's in their interests to develop the players so they can sell them on. The teams in England have so much money that they don't care what happens to the players - it's hunger games. In the past Irish players could get a look in in the English teams and develop there, but that's not the case anymore.

[Eirambler]

Yeah the English leagues are grinding up our players and spitting them out.

Players need to stay in Ireland longer (did Roy Keane no harm), and if they go overseas, go somewhere where they can play football and develop. O'Brien to France, Parrott to Holland. They went to selling clubs overseas, it's in their interests to develop the players so they can sell them on. The teams in England have so much money that they don't care what happens to the players - it's hunger games. In the past Irish players could get a look in in the English teams and develop there, but that's not the case anymore.

Actually what's happening is the overseas clubs are picking up our players and are seeing that 95% of them are either tall, strong, fast, have a lot of stamina or can jump high in the air - or some combination of the above. But they have little or no technical ability and it's too late to fix that by the time they go overseas. So they just make what they can out of them and sell them on or send them home.

[Nesta99]

But they're not though. Who was the last player to leave the league of Ireland and walk straight into a starting 11 anywhere in the top two divisions in England or a team of equivalent strength further afield? Daryl Horgan 10 years ago maybe. And let's face it he was nowhere near good enough at international level.

We're in an awful mess, but there's no point being delusional or using the situation to push agendas that aren't grounded in reality either.

If these players had come through a system where they were properly coached they'd be able to play quick five and 10 yard passes consistently and open up defenses like Armenia no problem. But they can't because of crap systems and crap coaching since they were kids.

Evan Ferguson was damn close from leaving Bohs to playing for Brighton in the EPL at 18. I did say that I wasnt focusing on right now, its something that needs to evolve and not that I think that right now LoI players should be selected. We dont know how players will ultimately develop and some clubs will be harder to break in to the first team but Bazunu is another, Melia is potentially one though getting in to Spurs 1sts is a tough one. Lads are getting some games in Italy even if not regulars or loaned and getting game time. There is no doubt that kids coming through LoI are technically better now than in past eras and that needs to be built on. Honohon and Noonan could fast track, Ozhianvuna can, Leonard has a great chance of making a quick impact at a young age. Keogh also. Its less casting the net wide by English clubs, cheap in a scattergun manner and hope for a gem, significant transfer fees being involved mean its less hit and hope. We need this and additional investment in the league. How many Armenians were domestic players and they battered our exclusively foreign based players.

[rebelmusic]

The report that came out likened our best club facilities with the 5th tier of the Belgian League. There is no real surprise here. I'm going to admit I still have a hangover from 2016 when it comes to hoping we'll do well. That's gone after tonight.

I don't blame HH. Most people were approving of the team selection before kick off. His players failed him completely tonight and we didn't respect Armenia anywhere near as much as we should have. No heart and no leadership.

100% Collins needs to be stripped of the captaincy.

[zero]

as bad as anything i've seen. only Ferguson and Kelleher come out with any credit, maybe Idah.

2s and 3s out of ten for the rest, never got going at all and most shockingly didn't look too fussed about it.

[Nesta99]

Actually what's happening is the overseas clubs are picking up our players and are seeing that 95% of them are either tall, strong, fast, have a lot of stamina or can jump high in the air - or some combination of the above. But they have little or no technical ability and it's too late to fix that by the time they go overseas. So they just make what they can out of them and sell them on or send them home.

Can you back this up or is it opinion? Watching Vinny Leonard, the last thing Id be saying is that he lacked technical ability and can do the other stuff. If anything going to say a L2 English side and they will kick and coach technique out of them in favour of physicality. If our kids get senior experience at home and then get spotted and have a chance to go to Germany, Italy, France as has been the actual case, it isnt that they are fast and strong, they can get them at home without the hassle of scouting abroad.

[SkStu]

But they're not though. Who was the last player to leave the league of Ireland and walk straight into a starting 11 anywhere in the top two divisions in England or a team of equivalent strength further afield? Daryl Horgan 10 years ago maybe. And let's face it he was nowhere near good enough at international level.

We're in an awful mess, but there's no point being delusional or using the situation to push agendas that aren't grounded in reality either.

If these players had come through a system where they were properly coached they'd be able to play quick five and 10 yard passes consistently and open up defenses like Armenia no problem. But they can't because of crap systems and crap coaching since they were kids.

That's why we only produce goalkeepers, centre backs and centre forwards. Because in Ireland we can't even coach our kids to competently pass the ball.

As Nesta closes with, the timing isn't now but the domestic league needs to be part of the solution. Its won't blunt things, it will just add to our options and give us a little more autonomy over our footballing success.

But its a conversation for another day.

[Eirambler]

The biggest problem here is arguably that people, in a desperate situation, are chasing unicorns. The stats on coaching and contact hours in Ireland are absolutely shocking. They can't be fixed without tens of millions of Euros, if not more, being sunk into the game.

But the clubs don't have anything like that kind of money, the association is broke and the government (correctly) doesn't trust them. Even if they did it's hard to justify that kind of investment when hospitals are overcrowded and there aren't enough houses for people to live in.

Unless someone comes up with the cash we can forget about building anything from the ground up, it's not happening and it's delusional to think otherwise. This should be the bit where I come in with what the actual solution is, but the sad reality is that there isn't one.

[Eirambler]

Can you back this up or is it opinion? Watching Vinny Leonard, the last thing Id be saying is that he lacked technical ability and can do the other stuff. If anything going to say a L2 English side and they will kick and coach technique out of them in favour of physicality. If our kids get senior experience at home and then get spotted and have a chance to go to Germany, Italy, France as has been the actual case, it isnt that they are fast and strong, they can get them at home without the hassle of scouting abroad.

I can back it up with my personal experiences across two countries - Ireland and Scotland. The difference in what I have seen across both is staggering, in terms of the facilities they have and the opportunities that are available to young players, but also the way their players are coached from aged 3 upwards.

And that's Scotland, who aren't even that good themselves. But they can at least develop a few players that can pass the ball.

[Nesta99]

The report that came out likened our best club facilities with the 5th tier of the Belgian League. There is no real surprise here. I'm going to admit I still have a hangover from 2016 when it comes to hoping we'll do well. That's gone after tonight.

I don't blame HH. Most people were approving of the team selection before kick off. His players failed him completely tonight and we didn't respect Armenia anywhere near as much as we should have. No heart and no leadership.

100% Collins needs to be stripped of the captaincy.

While greyhound racing has recieved almost €400m over 15 years (i think). Again Im not calling for the current setup to standup, but that we have to look very differently at things, lots of qualified coaches, and development of academies to go with underage natioal leagues and elite player programmes. Long term project properly funded by Dept of Sport. Football is an industry that could be a net earner, definitely more than subsidising dog racing annually. Have a look at Icelandic efforts.

[Razors left peg]

I think the lack of technically ability should be irrelevant when it comes to a game like today.

[SkStu]

While it wasnt so much the defeat (it was that too though), it was the nature of the defeat that is so unacceptable. The players shoulder a lot of the blame for it. There isn't even one real leader among them really. Armenia made a mockery of us at times, they very much took the p*ss out of us during the last 20-25 mins. And we had no answer.

Bringing Phillips on shows the foolishness of leaving Molumby out of the squad completely. After you start 3 of your CMs, who do you have left if it doesn't work (it didn't)? Phillips looked like a LSL player who won some sort of competition. Scales came on for Manning when O'Shea, at least to my eyes, looked completely gassed. Azaz stayed on way too long. Ogbene stunk the place out. The starting XI was incohesive and then the h/t changes and 2nd half subs simply didn't work. That's on HH.

Overall, a very sad state of affairs and hard to see a way forward that will actually make much of a difference. Today was embarrassing; tomorrow is depressing.

[Trequartista20]

We've sold our soul to become an ultra low tax economy, a pirate island, for rather evil US tech companies, and all for absolutely no appreciable reward.

Money needs to be put back into communities and into Ireland's most popular working class sport.

The current situation is totally unacceptable.

[Crosby87]

Hughton 3/1
Santo 10/3
Duff 5/1
Robbie 11/2
Bradley 13/2
JOS 7/1
Cars 9/1
Roy 11/1
Klopp 12/1
Terzic 13/1
Xavi 15/1
Spalletti 16/1
Mancini 20/1
Tardelli 21/1
Conceicao 22/1
Emma Hayes 25/1
Gemma Grainger 30/1

[seanfhear]

Hughton 3/1
Santo 10/3
Duff 5/1
Robbie 11/2
Bradley 13/2
JOS 7/1
Cars 9/1
Roy 11/1
Klopp 12/1
Terzic 13/1
Xavi 15/1
Spalletti 16/1
Mancini 20/1
Tardelli 21/1
Conceicao 22/1
Emma Hayes 25/1
Gemma Grainger 30/1Santo Claus is a bit of long shot especially coming up to Christmas !

[Comic Book Guy]

I haven't felt this low since Nicosia in 2006, our worst display by a mile. Don't know where we can go from here.

[Eirambler]

I think the lack of technically ability should be irrelevant when it comes to a game like today.

Well, not really. Armenia have a terrible team. If we could have gotten the ball down and played any little bit at all we'd have built sustained pressure and beaten them easily. But we couldn't do it because we're technically crap from defence into midfield. And I mean completely crap, the body of our team is stunningly devoid of technical ability and I can't see us achieving anything much ever as a result.

[Crosby87]

Santo Claus is a bit of long shot especially coming up to Christmas !

Remember the old days? What guys were automatically on the list for years? Deschamps...... Venables some others I forget

[Colbert Report]

Hungary are up 1-0 on Portugal. If they can win we could get back into things with a way in Lisbon next month.

I'll see myself out.

[mark12345]

Im with ya, theres no coming back from this for a long time. I think we've hung in long enough to not be labeled a fairweather fan but this to me its finally the tipping point.

Top down, bottom up change to the way we play the game in Ireland. Fact is we don't know how to play it properly so how could we ever coach the game to our kids? Rip it all up and bring in coaches from countries with a history of success to teach our kids. 20 plus years before we ever change this mindset if we start now.

[SkStu]

Remember the old days? What guys were automatically on the list for years? Deschamps...... Venables some others I forget

Phillippe Troussier.

[mark12345]

You actually think someone would want the job? And as far as the players go, everyone of them should step away from international football at this juncture. I would have no problem seeing the U 21 team or a Rovers / Shels combined team represent us for the remainder of the campaign.

[Trequartista20]

To be clear, the FAI will never get another penny from me ever again.

I will never buy a match ticket, nor a shirt, nor any merchandise of any sort ever again.

They're an incompetent, corrupt disgrace. They're stealing from us.

[sbgawa]

We've sold our soul to become an ultra low tax economy, a pirate island, for rather evil US tech companies, and all for absolutely no appreciable reward.

Money needs to be put back into communities and into Ireland's most popular working class sport.

The current situation is totally unacceptable.

Those dastardly american companies pay over 50% of all corporate tax in this country and if it wasnt for them we wouldnt be able to pay the bills. They arent the problem its governmwnt who allocate the money.

[Insidetherock]

The whole "we haven't produced players in Ireland for decades argument is giving me a pain in the hole.

Where are all these fantastic underage Scottish sides? Or Northern Ireland sides?

Every player on that pitch, was a full time professional player.. who eats, drinks, lives football. And has done for over a decade.

They were all stand out underage players, which was how they got "spotted" by bigger clubs, either in LOI or the UK

And there's no issue with contact hours.. they're all working with UEFA A level coaches every single day, so even if they were not getting enough at underage, they should have caught up by now

The FAI may be letting down the half decent u12/13 players at Cashel Town, but they're not letting down players like Nathan Collins who trains every day and plays against some of the best in the world in the Premier League every week

Nor Dara O Shea, a PL player 4 months ago

Or Matt Doherty.. Josh Cullen.. Jake O Brien

Grassroots football may be mired in issues.. but these players are at the top of the pyramid already

And stop with the "other countries have more technical ability" ****e

What "skills" do you need to play ball? Pass it 10-20 yards, run, cross, head, tackle .. its not rocket science... the only difference going up the levels, is players should be able to do it quicker and consistently

Nothing else.. but we create bull**** language to cover up the fact that when players play for Ireland, they seem incapable of doing basics

Overhit corners and frees.. no excuse. None. Lads playing junior football can cross in a ****ing corner .. but guys on 20 grand a week cant?

Thats nothing to do with John Delaney, but lads here will still talk about him as if he was managing the team

Its this simple.. playing the whole Shamrock Rovers team tonight, might have gotten a better result.. because at least the players would have known what they were supposed to be doing

[sbgawa]

Not to mention the tens of thousends they employ.

[Nesta99]

I can back it up with my personal experiences across two countries - Ireland and Scotland. The difference in what I have seen across both is staggering, in terms of the facilities they have and the opportunities that are available to young players, but also the way their players are coached from aged 3 upwards.

And that's Scotland, who aren't even that good themselves. But they can at least develop a few players that can pass the ball.

I agree with the facilities observation, i'd also concede that lack of numbers of qualified coaches in Ireland is an issue. All fixable. I get the frustration tonight but 'at least develop a few players that can pass the ball' sort of comment is not helpful or accurate. They lads that played tonight were poor but they dont lack ability playing for their clubs and some are in the top 15% in England eg. My own personal experience is that far away fields are often greener and to use England as an example they have only gotten their act together latter 2000s. We can replicate that in relative scale terms and there are no shortage of more applicable models we could pinch. Participation in the sport is high and that is often the toughest obstacle to get over in countries that implemented change and have improved, Iceland an example.

My own background is in sports science and have coaching badges up to uefa level, done in both Ireland and UK and have coached here, NI and England. I dont do it now, but I do have benchmarks on what is done and what can be done and I have audited coaching as part of a local covernment job here in previous lafe. Its not beyond fixing. Facilities at Roadstone are as good as you get in many clubs in England, I would even say that Dundalk's training facilities and coaching is good and getting there, up until recently underage sides had access to sports scientists, dieticians, physios, psychologist - the base was there and with additional resourcing can be back again. We need to have more faith in our domestic system and invest in it and it will reap reward. It will happen but the longer it takes the longer we will be waiting for being on par technically with similar rated countries.

[sbgawa]

The whole "we haven't produced players in Ireland for decades argument is giving me a pain in the hole.

Where are all these fantastic underage Scottish sides? Or Northern Ireland sides?

Every player on that pitch, was a full time professional player.. who eats, drinks, lives football. And has done for over a decade.

They were all stand out underage players, which was how they got "spotted" by bigger clubs, either in LOI or the UK

And there's no issue with contact hours.. they're all working with UEFA A level coaches every single day, so even if they were not getting enough at underage, they should have caught up by now

The FAI may be letting down the half decent u12/13 players at Cashel Town, but they're not letting down players like Nathan Collins who trains every day and plays against some of the best in the world in the Premier League every week

Nor Dara O Shea, a PL player 4 months ago

Or Matt Doherty.. Josh Cullen.. Jake O Brien

Grassroots football may be mired in issues.. but these players are at the top of the pyramid already

And stop with the "other countries have more technical ability" ****e

What "skills" do you need to play ball? Pass it 10-20 yards, run, cross, head, tackle .. its not rocket science... the only difference going up the levels, is players should be able to do it quicker and consistently

Nothing else.. but we create bull**** language to cover up the fact that when players play for Ireland, they seem incapable of doing basics

Overhit corners and frees.. no excuse. None. Lads playing junior football can cross in a ****ing corner .. but guys on 20 grand a week cant?

Thats nothing to do with John Delaney, but lads here will still talk about him as if he was managing the team

Its this simple.. playing the whole Shamrock Rovers team tonight, might have gotten a better result.. because at least the players would have known what they were supposed to be doing

This is true. The current crop have no excuse. They turned up expecting to win and got exactly what they deserved.

[seanfhear]

Phillippe Troussier.He never did get to trouser FAI money !

[Razors left peg]

When Man Utd lost to Grimsby a few weeks ago I heard someone say that the level of talent between the players is so big that it should be irrelevant what tactics were used by Utd or who the manager was etc. While the level between the Ireland and Armenia players is not as big as Utd v Grimsby there has be some level of our player should just beat their players no matter what.

No one on here was really complaining about the shape or the team that was picked. Most, including myself were happy enough and expecting a good performance looking at the team. So while I dont give the manager a pass on it, you absolutely have to question the attitude of the players. There were a few times in the 1st half that Ogbene gave up on some balls instead of chasing, he wasnt the only one but it looked like a symptom of the attitude of the whole team.

Also can we stop fcuking playing Cullen and Knight together as a midfield. Its sh1te, its always been sh1te and we keep persisting. I dont know what the answer in there is, but maybe someone like Lawal just needs to be put in and see how it goes.

[Eirambler]

And stop with the "other countries have more technical ability" ****e

What "skills" do you need to play ball? Pass it 10-20 yards, run, cross, head, tackle .. its not rocket science... the only difference going up the levels, is players should be able to do it quicker and consistently

Nothing else.. but we create bull**** language to cover up the fact that when players play for Ireland, they seem incapable of doing basics



But surely you see nearly every other national team in Europe knocking the ball around, building possession and then using it to create chances? There has hardly been an Irish national team in history that has played that way - and the simple reason is that our players simply can't do it at that level. It just ends up looking slow, ponderous and ineffective - see three years under Kenny and another year or so under O'Shea.

They seem incapable of doing basics because, relative to that level of football, they are incapable of doing basics. They actually don't really do it for their clubs either, they work hard within well defined systems and other players in their teams do the technical stuff. There's probably a dozen or so Irish players who are good enough at football to play in the English Premier League. But if you put the dozen of them in the same team they'd get relegated - they'd probably get relegated from the Championship in truth. Because there's next to no high level technical ability in the group.

There's also a lack of been there, bought the t-shirt old heads who have helped to cover our weaknesses in the past. When the remains of the Euro 2012 and 2016 teams went that went with them. So these lads don't have any old guys alongside them to guide them through nights like tonight. But that's a whole other issue and, again, one that we can do absolutely nothing about.

[Crosby87]

C'mon. Its really simple. The hallmark of the Irish side will always have to be scrap and grit and out working the opponent.

This generation is disinterested in that. (Angrily shakes fist at cloud)

But that IS true.

Here's a little story: When Wayne Gretzky got to his first Stanley Cup Final, they played the Islanders. The Islanders were at the end of a dynasty, winning 4 Cups in a row. They had aged but they still beat the Oilers.

After it was over, Gretzky looked around his locker room. Some guys were having a drink. Getting changed. Chatting. Making plans There was a feeling of well, almost.

Then he went to the Islanders locker room and peaked in. There was champagne and celebration and laughter- but only from the wives and girlfriends and coaches and staff.

The players-and they had some great ones-were bloody, bruised and battered. Eyes closed leaning on lockers. In pain. Getting seen by doctors.

Exhausted. Spent.

Gretzky never forgot that.

Our lads have lives too easy to be bothered to put the work and grit in. Nigel on here used to know it, and I know it and you all know it.