Genesis eircom League Review on Monday

[LFC in Exile]

Ground shares should be up the clubs involved, and I really don't see how it's for the good of the league or why they should dictate this kind of policy. What would be Limericks reaction to being forced back into groundsharing Pike again for example?

Originally the plan was that we would ground share. That having an eL club in the Pike Field would encourage the FAI to provide grants to upgrade facilities etc Limerick would get a state of the art small stadium - Pike owuld play there and Limerick would have long term lease. This turned out not to be possible.

If there were two eL clubs in Limerick it would be lunacy to have two grounds. And if there was an opportunity to develop a stadium with a junior club then I for one would be all for it.

Its important to make best use of scarce resources. This makes ground sharing essential where possible. What is surprising is that this is in the interests of the clubs themselves and they still won't go for it because of 'tradition'. Ask Drumcondra, St James Gate, St Francis and Transport about tradition.

[LFC in Exile]

From what I see on this thread this report is alot of
ILL thought out mickey mouse bull**** that is a waste of money.
Full of Fancy Ideas that are page filling garbage




But I will reserve judgement

Lets give him a trial before we hang him. :)

[Schumi]

Is it possible to get the whole report on this site I know its probably a lot but would appreciate if it could be done
It's on the FAI site here (http://www.fai.ie/images/eircomleaguewhitepaper.doc) (right click and 'Save Target As'). It's 47 pages long so can't really post it here.

[Schumi]

Having read it (well most of it, skipped some of the appendices) I don't see why they're so insistant on a 10-team premier division. Their rationale seems to be that other countries have a similar number of teams per population and that this will improve crowds somehow (despite evidence from the past that it didn't).

[Bald Student]

The only logic behind a 10 team premier is to have enough teams for regionalised first divisions. The suggestion is to find 8 new teams which would be hard enough. Finding 10 or more would be even harder.

As of today's league table 7 of the 10 premier clubs would be in the Dublin area. Would a regionalised first division help the rural clubs? Would grant money be available to the regionalised divisions from the word go or would it be prioritised into the premier division? Basically would the regionalised divisions become a trap even harder to escape than the current first division?

[pineapple stu]

How can anyone take a report seriously which proposes the name...

eircom Professional Super league
...as a replacement name for the league, and which advocates merging leagues with Scotland, Wales and NI? The former is just utterly daft, and it would take two seconds' thinking to realise the latter would never get by UEFA.

There is no practical basis for groundsharing - Shamrock Rovers will tell you that. Someone mentioned Dublin City and UCD groundsharing - WTF?! the support bases - such as there are any - are from completely different areas of town. Ditto the likes of Pat's and Shels.

The report mentions how we're 40th in the UEFA standings and how a league like Cyprus is far higher in the rankings. There appears to be no mention of the last two seasons, and that if we continue to perform as well, we will be up to 30th or so in three years' time.

The report mentions prize money for the Premier of E18k - this is not true; it's E100k (or thereabouts) from this season. It's a small point, but it seems the report was written in pre-season and is now out of date.

Will read through the report when I get a chance, but my first impression is that it's a mix of poorly though-out, completely impractical suggestions and a revamping of UEFA Licencing. I do, however, stand (and hope) to be corrected.

[Slash/ED]

I agree with the ten team league, or a sixteen team league. There can be no inbetween for me, playing each other three times and so people having an advantage from the start is complete and utter nonsense.

Expanding the amount of teams in the league and maybe regionalised first divisions is another good suggestion. As has been said, ideally speaking a 16 team All Ireland league with regionalised first divisions would be the best situation I think.

[A face]

ideally speaking a 16 team All Ireland league with regionalised first divisions would be the best situation I think.

That is definitely the best way to ensure quality teams !!
The top four in the Irish league would be a great addition to the premier, it would be unreal then !!!

[ORPCS]

That is definitely the best way to ensure quality teams !!
The top four in the Irish league would be a great addition to the premier, it would be unreal then !!!

Agree - but getting the top teams from Wales in the league would be a good call also.

Not only would you be getting the likes of TNS, Rhyl, Bangor, Carmarthen - but decent teams from the pyramid would be looking to join too eg AFC Newport, Merthyr, Colwyn Bay.

[Sheridan]

Agree - but getting the top teams from Wales in the league would be a good call also.

Not only would you be getting the likes of TNS, Rhyl, Bangor, Carmarthen - but decent teams from the pyramid would be looking to join too eg AFC Newport, Merthyr, Colwyn Bay.
You really think Colwyn Bay would be up for it?? Where do we sign?? :eek:

[The Stars]

forget about wales or scotland.I for one wouldnt be able to aford trips to these places every few weeks and im sure most of you would agree with me.An all ireland league is the best way to go,but dont think the regional leagues for 1st division would get any attendances bigger than a few hundred at most.

[pineapple stu]

I've just noticed that in the section where they compare attendances across leagues, they've used our figures from here as reported on www.European-Football-Statistics.com!!! How amateur is that?! Sure those figures could be meaningless - and indeed, the first year we did them, they were way off. They're also from half-way through the season and are hardly a useable average. No accreditation is given, from what I can see. Very amateur-looking report, to be honest.

[crc]

This report may contain innovative ideas, but as pineapple stu says, its a very amateur presentation. The FAI probably paid good money for this. For instance, when comparing other sports facilities in a particular locality, they just lifted images from www.worldstadiums.com and the Bord na gCon website. I'd call that theft. It also shows that they probably didn't visit the other venues, or if they did, they didn't bring a camera.

The analysis that (the Republic of) Ireland has too many top flight teams per head is flawed. They compare us to other European leagues, not one of which has a lower population that the Republic. The logical extention of the argument is that if this were a country of 1 million people, there should only be three teams!

It also contradicts one of its own arguments - that clubs should be based in the larger population centres. Waterford, Galway, Limerick are suitably large population centres, but if the 'top 10' were decided today they wouldn't be included. This doesn't mean that all of a sudden the supporters of Waterford, Galway, Limerick (or anywhere else) will suddenly swing behind some team that did make it into the top 10! The markets for each club are completely different (with the exception of Dublin). The competition for resources is not from other clubs, but from other sports. By creating a 10-team elite with limited promotion/relegation, you are effectively disenfranchising the potential support in these population centres from the league altogether.

On the positive, I do think there should be at least one club in almost every county (i.e. expansion to 30 clubs) , and it does highlight that the marketing for competing sports is glossier, sexier and more professional.

But my overall feeling is that this report is weak.

[thejollyrodger]

From the Irish Times

Broad acceptance for report
Emmet Malone

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2005/0927/1855899917SP2EMMETSOCCER.html


National League: Clubs from around the country yesterday gave a cautious welcome to the report by Genesis into how the Eircom League might be overhauled and reorganised so as to improve the public image, management and financial stability of senior football here, all of which, it was conceded by delegates, fall well short of the desired levels.

At a meeting in Dublin, where the consultants gauged reaction to their proposals prior to the drafting of their final report, representatives of the 22 league clubs, as well as other sectors of the game, broadly accepted the rather stark assessment of the league's problems and broadly agreed with the recommendations made, although it was clear that a good deal of work remained to be done before a final set of proposals can be put forward for implementation.

Addressing the meeting, Brian MacNeice of Genesis outlined the extent of the challenges facing the league. Total revenues, he said, were "pitifully low" at €14 million while expenditure was roughly €17 million, public perception of the senior game was poor and the league's share of sports sponsorship in the country negligible at just €587,000 out of an estimated €67 million.

"Most clubs are struggling to survive," he said, "and at the consultation stage there has been widespread criticism of the fact that the clubs are running the league for the clubs rather than there being a long-term plan for the benefit of the league itself."

Among the recommendations made to address the situation is a 10-team premier or "elite" division with two regionalised divisions operating below it, the use of participation agreements to bind clubs to short, medium and long-term development plans covering every aspect of their operations (including the likes of administrative structures, infrastructural investment and community development work) as well as an immediate merger between the league and the FAI.

"There's a great deal in here that we have been talking about ourselves at club level," said Nial O'Reilly of Galway United. "My only concern is that there has been a lot of talk here about evolution but the time for that has passed now . . . it's revolution that we're in urgent need of."

Other clubs raised questions about the future of summer football, the precise nature of the merger and the proposed 30-team structure, but there was a surprisingly upbeat reaction to what was essentially a rather damning report with both MacNeice and his Genesis colleague, Alistair Gray, making it clear that they felt both the league in its current form and many of the clubs that make it up were deeply flawed and unsustainable.

One proposal to win particular support was the idea of a player wage cap which, it is envisaged, would be a part of the participation agreement. It is currently proposed that no more than 65 per cent of a club's turnover could be devoted to player costs. Shelbourne's Ollie Byrne, however, suggested that such a rule would prove unenforceable while Fran Gavin of the PFAI expressed his bemusement. "I have to laugh," he said, "because the people proposing a wage cap are never the ones who are going to be affected by it."

FAI chief executive John Delaney said afterwards he had been pleased by the response to the report and hoped the recommendations would be acted upon.



© The Irish Times

from the indo


It's Genesis or bust, Delaney warns clubs
ADVERTISEMENT


click here to enlarge
Alistair Gray, managing director Genesis, with John Delaney at the release of the White Paper yesterday.

FAI chief executive John Delaney has warned that clubs will go bust if the Eircom League doesn't embrace the recommendations made in the Genesis White Paper which was published yesterday.

Genesis, the Scottish/Irish consultants, spent four months preparing their comprehensive report and discovered that the 22 Eircom League clubs are losing €3million a year on a collective turnover of €14m.

Delaney believes there is now no turning back as the League bids to saves itself from extinction.

"Costs are rising faster than revenues are accruing and while tradition, history and heritage keep many clubs going the inevitable truth is that financially the League is in a wholly unsustainable position," said Delaney.

"I wouldn't put a number on it but I certainly believe that, as standards improve and the league stays in its current state of limbo, I have no doubt that there will be casualties.

"If part of our game is suffering we need to resolve it and the Eircom League is suffering. I don't think there is a magic wand here or one recommendation that will solve this."

Genesis make 11 recommendations on how to make the League viable. These include changes in management and league structures, merging with the FAI and the introduction of participation agreements, development structures and wage control. It also proposes better facilities, marketing, club administration and community links.

The merger with the FAI, the proposed league structure and wage control are the three areas that are likely to cause the most contention.

Genesis has proposed an elite 10-team league with two 10-team regional leagues plus national U21 and U18 leagues. They also want all wages capped at 65 per cent of turnover.

The FAI board last week approved the report and set in a train a process whereby the chief executive would be joined by two other association nominees on an implementation steering committee that would also include three representatives from the Eircom League clubs.

They will be expected to digest the Genesis Report and arrive at recommendations that would be put to the clubs at an Eircom League AGM.

It is envisaged having the entire implementation process completed before the start of the 2006 season so that the steering committee's recommendations can be introduced in 2007.

Delaney said that the situation in the Eircom League is so grave that the clubs will have no other option but to back the steering committee's proposals when they are produced.

"When Paddy McCaul, chairman of the League, and I asked Genesis to consult with the stakeholders of the league, we were conscious that once we embarked on the road, there was no turning back.

"The train has left the station," said Delaney.

Meanwhile, John Byrne has been appointed as acting director of the League with acting general manager Michael Hayes assuming the role of operations manager.

Gerry McDermott
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1476021&issue_id=13053

[thejollyrodger]

from the examiner

27/09/05

Genesis revelations portray eircom League in crisis
By Liam Mackey
THE eircom League was yesterday portrayed as a sick patient whose only hope of recovery rests with radical surgery.

In a white paper on the league's strategic direction, Genesis the management consultants who produced the post-Saipan blueprint for reform of the FAI say that the senior domestic game is "near to being economically bankrupt, is unsustainable in its current format and incapable of sustaining itself into the future."

Citing this as a "make or break time for the league", Genesis suggest that "tinkering" with the problems will not be enough. Instead they propose what they call "a radical overhaul."

Chief among their recommendations is a new league format which would see an elite 'Irish Premiership' of ten teams, beneath which would be two regional leagues of ten teams each, as well as four U21 and U18 regional leagues, the latter with links to amateur and schoolboy clubs.



There would be promotion and relegation between the elite league and the Regional League on a play-off basis, and promotion and relegation between the Regional Leagues and the Amateur Leagues.

With 12 clubs set to play in the Regional League, space for a further eight teams would be created and the Genesis report suggests priority should be given to representative sides from the likes of the Kerry or Mayo leagues.

Other key recommendations include the full merger of the League and the FAI; the existing 22-strong management committee to be cut to an eight person executive; mandatory participation agreements (strongly linked to the current club licensing scheme); investment in facilities and community links; a re-branding of the league as part of an improved marketing drive; and the introduction of clear development structures, incorporating coaching, training and under-age football.

The white paper contains a number of proposals which are already proving controversial, including a players' salary cap whereby clubs would have to adhere to a spending limit of 65% of turnover on players' wages and costs. Yesterday, Shelbourne Chief

Executive Ollie Byrne said that such wage controls wouldn't have "a snowball's chance in hell" of working.

Many fans of Dublin clubs will also react strongly to the suggestion that there should be ground-sharing between clubs in the capital.

In a vision of the future according to Genesis, within five years the league would see attendances increase to an average of 4,000-5,000, with matches played in high quality, all-seater stadia. Clubs would have professional management and administration, re-branding would bring in lucrative sponsorship and the league would attract Government and private investment.

The FAI and League have already offered their support for the plan.

Said FAI Chief Executive John Delaney: "The challenge now is to grasp the ideas and press ahead in consultation with the stakeholders to reform the league. Leaving the status quo in place is not an option."

Delaney spelled out the problems currently facing the league: "Despite great strides on the park, as evidenced in our clubs' European campaigns, despite the better playing surfaces and despite the recent improvement in facilities, the League is not in a position to continue as it is.

"Attendances are a fraction of what they were. Costs are rising faster than revenues are accruing and while tradition, history and heritage keep many clubs going against the odds, the inevitable truth is that, financially, the League is in a wholly unsustainable position."
http://www.irishexaminer.com/pport/web/sport/Full_Story/did-sgZwb9XYdP4Gcsg0aewFBADppk.asp

[hoops1]

Thanks Schumi.

[bigmac]

not an Olly bashing post, but why is he so against a wage cap? A club should not be allowed to spend more than it earns, or take out loans to cover wages (let's ignore loans for capital investment). Surely this is just sound financial practice. A club will clearly have other expenses relating to match days, training, travel, administration, marketing etc. When you add up all the expenditures, they should be less than the total income (thus giving a profit to be used for ground improvements, transfers etc.). This means that a club's wages bill is already a percentage of their income, so what's wrong with putting a limit on this percentage?
In general, clubs in the EL are like little kids. If you let a kid decide their own bedtime they'll stay up all night and be knackered the next morning. Therefore, a parent has to tell them to go to bed and enforce the bedtime. Clubs in this country cannot be trusted to run themselves properly, therefore standards (which seem obvious) must be imposed from above to ensure the survival of the clubs and the league.
Incidentally, the PFAI are against salary caps. What a surprise. They need to cop on and realise that every worker in every company in the country has a salary cap of exactly the type being proposed by the report. I mean where else do you see a business paying its employees more than they're earning? It's ludicrous!

[EnDai]

I think his point was its nigh on impossible to enforce? Even Pat Scully was saying the same thing on EL Weekly last night, that clubs would go outside the boundaries to get the players.

[hoops1]

The 30 team league isnt as looney as it sounds
when you actually read the detail but it is explained very poorly
It has alot of room for improvemnt the idea can be developed
Does anyone agree?

[Schumi]

when comparing other sports facilities in a particular locality, they just lifted images
Not only that but they show what I assume are gaa stadiums from Limerick and Cork which are almost entirely terraced while elsewhere they say "The days of open terraces... have been replaced with all-seater stadia". There are some good ideas but the report itself looks shoddily put together.


advocates merging leagues with Scotland, Wales and NIIt doesn't actually advocate this. It just mentions it in an appendix as one possibility they looked at. They advocate a 10-team premier and two regional 1st divisions.

[pineapple stu]

It doesn't actually advocate this. It just mentions it in an appendix as one possibility they looked at. They advocate a 10-team premier and two regional 1st divisions.
Apologies. They still wasted their time even looking at this possibility and mentioning it in their report.

[Lim till i die]

Report comes across as a load of amatuerish tosh to me. Regional Divisions will not work and would absolutely kill interest in Limerick for one. Also the wage cap would merely end up punishing the clubs who try and adopt it. There is enough nudge, nudge, wink, wink in the league at the moment it would be absolute open season if they tried to bring in a salary cap. Completely unenforceable ludicrous idea and even if it were to happen it would simply lead to a poorer standard with clubs unable to even afford to compete with lowere league English teams wage wise. I mean could you imagine the team ourselves or the likes of Ucd would have only being allowed to spend 65% of turnover on wages :eek:

[pineapple stu]

I mean could you imagine the team...the likes of UCD would have only being allowed to spend 65% of turnover on wages :eek:
You're looking at it, I would imagine. Our turnover last season was bigger than Harps'. We're not quite as small as everyone makes out to be.

[pete]

Read the Report last night & not very impressive at all.

- They said eL could make top 20 european leagues in 5 years which is impossible as betrays lack of understanding oif the coefficients. To make top 20 every year we would have to get as many points as our last 5 years combined.

- There are no official attendance figures for 2003 & 2004 so don't know how they can make any claims good or bad about.

- If i had a weeks spare time i could have writtne the report myself.

- I acknowledge that the Report is only phase 1 but the lack of any cost projections whatsoever lets it down badly.

The most interesting section was the people who were interviewed:

- Some clubs never interviewed. I assume they didn't put themselves forward for interview.
- Don Givens U21 International Manager never interviewed bu Senior Manager was. Givens would surely have had insight into eL players abilities as always has a few in his squad.

[hoops1]

look at it like this
10 TEAM premier (not much change there)
12 team first(not much change)
8 New teams for example
Leinster, Munster,Connaught,Ulster(maybe) Senior league
selections
(all would have at least one team in respective leagues with
grounds as good as any in the eircom league) plus maybe Kerry
Team ,Mayo Team and North Eastern Regions team( or if you can
think of better reps have them)

In addition all El teams have schoolboy sections and 18's and
21's are EL only

Now what you have is still the top league and first but every
other grade of football in the wole
country is tied in and feeding the EL the (pyramid structure in
place)

[pineapple stu]

- They said eL could make top 20 european leagues in 5 years which is impossible as betrays lack of understanding oif the coefficients. To make top 20 every year we would have to get as many points as our last 5 years combined.
Technically not impossible (the five years would start from next year), but highly improbable alright. Ignores the fact that we're on course for 30th in three years.


- There are no official attendance figures for 2003 & 2004 so don't know how they can make any claims good or bad about.
They lifted the figures from foot.ie, effectively.


- If i had a weeks spare time i could have writtne the report myself.
Is that five minutes to do the report and the rest of the week to review all your spelling errors? ;)

[Lim till i die]

You're looking at it, I would imagine. Our turnover last season was bigger than Harps'. We're not quite as small as everyone makes out to be.

All Apologies I was trying to think of a Premier Club with small crowds that was relevant :o

[thejollyrodger]

In regards to the accuracy of the crowds, pictures of stadia and other matters I wouldnt go too hard on this report. The Eircom League after all isnt very accurate in producing statistics or anything like data on stadia grounds around the country.

This white paper isnt the best white paper I have read (and I have read a few on different government departments) but I didnt expect it to be . After all the Eircom League is the poor relation of sport in Ireland. Its more about getting the basics right, i.e sound finances, proper facilities, technical development plans and all that.

I think the recommendations are mostly spot on. 65% is enough to spend on players but my only worry is that clubs wont abide by the rules. Its up to the FAI to make sure that they do. For a start they can introduce a single contract type which should help the league a lot (and stop players going to Ingerland for peanuts).

Ireland will be 30th in 3 years if all goes to plan. Thats IF clubs continue to get the results in Europe like we did this seasosm. I dont know how we can jump to 20th though. If anyone reads the co-efficents thread they'll know there is a big glass ceiling around 26th position and to get through that will take serious work by the clubs.

So, yes there are some parts in the white paper that are overally optimistic and others that seem factually wrong but on the whole I think its a great document and just hope that all the recommendations are seen though.

[pineapple stu]

Fair enough!

From what I remember of the figures for last year (they're on the General Forum here somewhere), UCD, Bray and Harps were in the top five in the First Division sizewise. Dundalk and Galway were in there as well. Limerick and Kilkenny were by far and away the smallest teams in the league.

[pete]

Is that five minutes to do the report and the rest of the week to review all your spelling errors? ;)

Thats low :( but true ;)

Would you believe i have customer facing job :eek:

I think the report is a typicla consultant report like a government would commission - pay outsiders to tell you what you should already know.

Best things that pointed out were:
- lack of clear brand for league
- no coherent league wide marketing/branding
- Rugbys Celtic league gets same attendances.
- Pitiful overall league sponsorship value (AIB announced paying €1m per year for AIL rugby - we surely have to be higher status than them?

[The Ball Boy]

You're looking at it, I would imagine. Our turnover last season was bigger than Harps'. We're not quite as small as everyone makes out to be.

Pineapple Stu...can you tell us what you have based this on?

[pineapple stu]

At the end of last season, the Mirror (or the Star or someone) ran an article on all the clubs' turnovers, presumably having gotten the figures from their accounts which UEFA Licencing now require clubs to submit. It should be searchable here.

Edit - it's summarised in this (http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=204009&postcount=14) post in this (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=20676&highlight=turnover) thread.

[The Ball Boy]

Cheers for that Stu...but the figure quoted there only represents Harps income for last year, not their turnover.

[Schumi]

Cheers for that Stu...but the figure quoted there only represents Harps income for last year, not their turnover.
Forgive my lack of financial knowledge but what's the difference between turnover and income?

[pete]

I can only assume that this "White Paper" is supposed to reflect the views of the people who were interviewed? If that is the case isn't it strange that the 10 team Premier division is popular when we just abandonded it last season?

Also interesting that 100% supports summer football with no mention whatsoever of return to winter version.

:confused:

Another good thing about the report is the focus on the "elite" (in an eL sense) clubs. Too many 1st division clubs (& some Premier) can never asipre to progress so shouldn't be allowed to hold the rest back.

[Mr A]

That's all well and good Pete but that depends on what you mean by progress. Too often in this country the only accepted type of ambition is to pay megabucks to players in the hope theat trophies and Europe will earn you enough to pay for it.

In my book real ambition is paying out what you can afford and trying to develop your club on a long term basis. In that regard there are more first division clubs who have their houses in order than premier probably!

And a few clubs can't really progress the league on their own. The report talks a lot about the ptramid structure and rightly so. For the league to be strong it needs all its clubs to be healthy and viable- it's not just about the few at the top it's about everyone from Athlone Town to Cork City.

[derrymac]

[QUOTE=pete]
Also interesting that 100% supports summer football with no mention whatsoever of return to winter version.
QUOTE]

That'll be because Longford didn't talk to Genesis

[A face]

[QUOTE=pete]
Also interesting that 100% supports summer football with no mention whatsoever of return to winter version.
QUOTE]

That'll be because Longford didn't talk to Genesis

But does the club in Longford even want it to go to winter football .... We know Alan Matthews wants it back but he wants alot of things, what do officials at the club think ??

[pineapple stu]

Forgive my lack of financial knowledge but what's the difference between turnover and income?
There is none. :confused:

Unless you want to get really technical and describe profit as income, which isn't the case here obviously.

[pete]

That'll be because Longford didn't talk to Genesis

Alan Matthews spoke to them but they clearly didn't listen to him.

There are a lot of clubs in this league who cannot aspire to fulltime professionalism. They will never attract enough support to compete for Premier division title. Why should we have a lerge Premier division to give them chance of getting promoted & hang onto 10th or 11th place?

[Sheridan]

There are a lot of clubs in this league who cannot aspire to fulltime professionalism. They will never attract enough support to compete for Premier division title. Why should we have a lerge Premier division to give them chance of getting promoted & hang onto 10th or 11th place?
There are a lot of leagues in this confederation who cannot aspire to G14 status. They will never attract enough investment to compete for European honours. Why should have a lerge ( :confused: ), inclusive pan-continental competition to give them the chance of beating the odds and attaining the occasional group phase place?

[Bald Student]

No Sheridan,
I agree with Pete. The league should be disbanded and Cork should be declared perpetual champions of Ireland. This would kill two birds with the one stone. It would end any Dublin bias and would prevent small clubs like Bray, UCD and Longford from having the cheek to take points from Cork.

[chippie0001]

I read the 44 page report in full, you can take off 10 pages for Uefa co-efficents and the like and then another 3 or so for the list of people who participated. All in all abou ta 30 page or less report and it took an entire 4 months to prepare. What did they actually tell us:

Clubs are paying too much for wages and are close to bankrupt - who here did not know that?

Facilities are not very good - again same question as above?

A ten team league is needed - Did they back this view up and explain why?

I think 5 people from this MB could have prepared this report and would have came up with the same idea's and views and would actually understand the issues better. I think it is the FAI's report to say look they say a merger is a good idea too so do it. Not one idea in there backed up by hard facts as to how we will do it. We need more crowds, better grounds, more income, but not one idea or suggestion how these will come about. Anyway putting their faith in this document or the FAI need their heads read.

[Mr A]

I think the best suggestion in the report may well be that of dual-registration i.e. players can be registered for an eL club and their local junior club at the same time. This will massively help eL clubs relations with the junior game as it will no longer just be a case of stealing their best players. There should also definately be a National U18 competition started next season. Harps have been forced to enter a team in the Ulster senior league to have an outlet for U18's, which is ridiculous.

[Macy]

Also interesting that 100% supports summer football with no mention whatsoever of return to winter version.
I don't see how even the pro summer football people can take that as a positive, given the quality of the report from what I've read so far.

[thejollyrodger]

from the indo..

Clubs must travel uncertain road on way to Utopia
ADVERTISEMENT

HOW appropriate that the FAI should once again book a hotel room with a name appropriate to the business of the day.

Monday was D-Day for the Eircom League and the Normandy Room at the Green Isle Hotel made a fitting venue for the presentation of the Genesis White Paper, even if sand was replaced by plush carpet.

For anybody who follows the Eircom League, or is an avid reader of The Bootroom, there was nothing new in the picture painted by Genesis.

Their picture of a footballing Utopia by 2010 was also easy to sketch and, given the unsustainable state the Eircom League is in at present, it's wasn't that difficult to point the way forward and show the clubs how they could easily jump from the red into the black.

Genesis have now concentrated minds and the FAI say there is no going back so the hard work starts now as the steering committee tries to come up with a formula for the future based on the consultants' recommendations. A lot of emphasis is being placed on the merger with the FAI and the implication is that this will be the key that unlocks the golden chest. It's not.

Ten clubs setting up a breakaway league could just as easily create the 2010 vision as long as they had access to proper resources.

The merger means giving the franchise for the country's national soccer league to the FAI. Once it goes through clubs will come under direct rule from Merrion Square.

While that means they can concentrate on running their clubs, leaving the management of the league to professional executives, it also ensures that the FAI will control everything through the participation agreement and possess the power to change the goalposts.

So, if they feel that ten franchises in ten regions is the way to go sometime in the future they will be able to make it happen, just like their counterparts in Australia have successfully done this year.

That's the sword of Damocles hanging over the 22 Eircom League clubs as they await the proposals of the steering implementation committee.

They have only themselves to blame for losing their franchise rights.

They were being put on the same road to Utopia which Genesis are now proposing by former chairman Brendan Dillon, but they failed to save him when he was ruthlessly taken out of the game back in January 2004.

We can take it that the merger won't be the major sticking point in the months ahead now the likes of Dillon are long gone off the scene.

Minds were quickly focused once clubs were informed that their affiliation fees would be around €50,000 each if the FAI were to stop funding the majority of the Eircom League's running costs.

But there is set to be a major battle over the format of the new-look Eircom League which Genesis predict will be 'sexy' and 'cool' by 2010.

Genesis have suggested a ten-team elite division with two ten-team regional leagues.

The eight new teams would be representative sides from areas such as Kerry and Mayo.

While the big clubs are happy with that - even it means that the Dublin sides may have to ground-share - there is a majority who are apprehensive because they can't be sure if they will make the cut come November 2006.

And therein lies the crunch. How do we arrive at an elite ten-team division that contains ten teams distributed evenly across the country to ensure that the new format is a proper national league and not just some glorified Greater Dublin grouping with a few culchies from Derry, Cork and Longford sprinkled in like Parmesan cheese?

There are at least 16 clubs who have realistic ambitions of being in that elite division.

Those who aren't sure if they will make the initial cut are scared they will be consigned to oblivion.Genesis correctly identifies the need for Eircom League clubs to strengthen their links with other strands of football and to be at the top of the football pyramid in their area.

But those pyramids have to be built all over Ireland, not just on the east coast, and that's going to be the biggest problem facing the steering committee when it sits down to decide the shape of the Eircom League from 2010 onwards.

Small is beautiful but national is better.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=94&si=1476459&issue_id=13055

[The Ball Boy]

There is none. :confused:

Unless you want to get really technical and describe profit as income, which isn't the case here obviously.

Actually Stu, Harps ran a profit of 9% last year, so it is applicable.

Did UCD pull in €400k plus last year? How much of that was direct funding?

In relation to the actual report, I think the dual representation would be a big help to clubs, from my point of view it would definately help relations between junior/intermediate teams & there local senior team.

[thejollyrodger]

PFAI welcome Genesis report
28/09/2005 - 10:42:11
http://breaking.tcm.ie/2005/09/28/story222857.html

Professional Footballers Association of Ireland chief Fran Gavin has welcomed the new Genesis report into the eircom League but is steadfastly against a salary cap.

The Genesis report recommends a salary cap of 65% of a club’s turnover though this has already brought consternation from several sources who believe it will lead to a culture of ‘under the counter’ payments.

Gavin , too, is against the move insisting: “There are enough restriction on players as it is without restricting their capacity to earn a living. The Irish economy is booming and more growth is predicted and we are the only industry calling for a cap on wages.”


I think the wage cap is going to be the biggest item on the agenda. Everything else will probably get the nod but im not sure about the wages side of things. Wages are incredibly important though, so many clubs over stretch themselves with payements and its probably the biggest thing threatening the existence of the league.

[Frankfurt Hoop]

Chippie is dead right. It's a very shoddy report. Much of the background information they base their conclusions on are simply incorrect. They describe the 70s as a heyday for league attendances. The LoI started to die in the late 60s. They make much ado of the fact that Roy Keane was the only player to have played LoI football out of the Saipan squad, but completely ignored the fact that he was one of the minority who had ever lived in Ireland, never mind play here.

Much ado is made of the relative international rankings of the League and the international team without mentioning that these rankings are merging. Our coefficient has increased by about 50% in the last three years. We'd be about 35th over the last two years and 30th or 31st for this year.

That the miserly amount of sponsorship received by the league is largely the responsibility of the FAi is ignored.

It looks like this is the signal to introduce franchise football here. Austria is cited as an example for us – Red Bull Bohemians, anyone? We're also told about the success of the Premiership, despite the fact they are in the third season of attendance decline and a huge debate rages about that competition's long term future.

And the statement that Shamrock Rovers were "forced" to sell Milltown is frankly laughable.

One could go on and on. This is Delaney's opportunity to completely marginalise the league.

[bigmac]

That Indo article is a heap of scaremongering. The sword of Damocles my ar$e! I don't know how merging the leage with the FAI leads directly to the FAI controlling the clubs. I totally agree that creating proper links with junior clubs is the way forward, a situation needs to be created where the top players are automatically funnelled into the local league team.