England v Republic of Ireland - Sunday, 17th November 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[backstothewall]

I'm flying over in the morning, with very little in the way of hope or expectation of getting a result. They're one of the best sides in the world, and although we look some secure at the back under HH I would expect them to find a way through with the talent at their disposal. On the other hand it's hard to imagine us scoring beyond maybe something from a set piece.

It will be my first time at Wembley though so looking forward to that tremendously.

Given that the are starting to look a bit more solid i would keep the back 5 from last night. In the absence of Festy and Knight I'd guess McAteer will come in on the right, and Molumby in the middle. I think i would put Andrew Moran in for Szmodics to make a 5 man midfield against England. We could be torn apart with a 4 man midfield.

Anyone suggest anywhere for a few beers tomorrow night? We're staying in Wembley but with the tube being so handy we'll go anywhere in London if there will be a crowd of Irish fans in.

[~YTM~]

Could see Festy being replaced by someone like Azaz, but would involve Scales or Manning at LB to give us that LB/LCB when out and in possession.

Kelleher
Doherty O'Shea Collins Scales
Azaz Cullen Molumby O'Dowda
Szmodics Ferguson.

Depending on how fit O'Shea is might be Manning at LB with Scales and Collins at CB. IMO we can't line up with Johnston playing at LM away to England. Think one of the wingers needs to be a central player like a Knight or McGrath but obviously both are missing so Azaz would be the next option.

[liamoo11]

Could see Festy being replaced by someone like Azaz, but would involve Scales or Manning at LB to give us that LB/LCB when out and in possession.

Kelleher
Doherty O'Shea Collins Scales
Azaz Cullen Molumby O'Dowda
Szmodics Ferguson.

Depending on how fit O'Shea is might be Manning at LB with Scales and Collins at CB. IMO we can't line up with Johnston playing at LM away to England. Think one of the wingers needs to be a central player like a Knight or McGrath but obviously both are missing so Azaz would be the next option.

For me I'd keep the back 4 as was the other night and play 5 in midfield narrow with Cullen, molumby and azaz centrally and Knight and mcgtath playing narrow higher up trying to support ferguson when they can.

Give up the wide Areas and stop England flowing through the middle. Let England fullbacks be a constant outlet they don't have Trents ability to pick a forward pass to hurt us Trent did in Dublin.

A game where we force England to cross the ball repeatedly from wide and deeper than our own penalty area is a game we can stay in and have a chance of a result

[Razors left peg]

For me I'd keep the back 4 as was the other night and play 5 in midfield narrow with Cullen, molumby and azaz centrally and Knight and mcgtath playing narrow higher up trying to support ferguson when they can.

Give up the wide Areas and stop England flowing through the middle. Let England fullbacks be a constant outlet they don't have Trents ability to pick a forward pass to hurt us Trent did in Dublin.

A game where we force England to cross the ball repeatedly from wide and deeper than our own penalty area is a game we can stay in and have a chance of a result

I think the idea of this isn't bad, Knight suspended though

[liamoo11]

I think the idea of this isn't bad, Knight suspended though

A slight oversight on my part!

[Razors left peg]

A slight oversight on my part!

You could have Szmodics in that Knight position you suggested. He has the energy for it

[AFunnyOldGame]

What’s my best bet of getting a ticket for Sunday guys ?

[elatedscum]

What’s my best bet of getting a ticket for Sunday guys ?

Tickets available on stubhub for €34 + commission (€10.50 for those tickets, more for more expensive tickets). **** stubhub but at least they guarantee the ticket so you can't be scammed...

https://www.stubhub.ie/nations-league-england-vs-ireland-tickets-wembley-stadium-17-11-2024/event/106473610/?byo=true&byo_qty=2&ticket_id=2474533290

[pineapple stu]

Conor Coventry called up to replace Knight.

England worried now I'm sure!

[seanfhear]

Conor Coventry called up to replace Knight.

England worried now I'm sure!
Might even boycott the game !

[seanfhear]

Conor Coventry called up to replace Knight.

England worried now I'm sure!Nice to see Coventry get a cal up all the same ~ Is it his first call-up to the senior squad ?

[backstothewall]

What’s my best bet of getting a ticket for Sunday guys ?

We might have a spare one. It's for the England end but you would be with a couple of Ireland fans.

DM me if you're interested.

[Eirambler]

Coventry has been in the senior squad a couple of times previously I think, back when it looked like he might make it at West Ham. Despite being a late callup I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him make his debut off the bench.

While he's down in League 1 now, he actually offers something that I think HH will value for a game like this - he's a tidy defensive central midfielder who will hold his position and help to protect the centre backs. Think we might see him come on for Molumby at some point in the second half.

[~YTM~]

Nice to see Coventry get a cal up all the same ~ Is it his first call-up to the senior squad ?

No he's been called up before but this will be his first time making a match day squad.

[third policeman]

This is rock bottom. No way good enough to be called up and it’s not as if we don’t have more interesting and progressive options for a free hit game. HH will have no idea who Coventry is, just going along with the established mediocrity. FFS the North are looking more clued up and promising than us now.

[Stuttgart88]

This is rock bottom. No way good enough to be called up and it’s not as if we don’t have more interesting and progressive options for a free hit game. HH will have no idea who Coventry is, just going along with the established mediocrity. FFS the North are looking more clued up and promising than us now.
I thought HH name checked him in context of WyScout? Better use of his time to use the app than to travel to see him…

[Eirambler]

This is rock bottom. No way good enough to be called up and it’s not as if we don’t have more interesting and progressive options for a free hit game. HH will have no idea who Coventry is, just going along with the established mediocrity. FFS the North are looking more clued up and promising than us now.


It really isn't. It's known that HH has been tracking Coventry and rates him to a point. He's in because we have a midfield injury crisis - we're missing Knight, Smallbone, Browne, McGrath, Taylor, Lawal and Hodge. In terms of what we need off the bench in what will be a near impossible task away to England, he's the next best available option in the circumstances.

It's either the compact solidity he gives you, the more all action style of Killian Phillips (a poor man's Molumby basically) or the creativity but complete lack of mobility of Connell (basically useless in terms of what we need to plug this particular gap gainst England away - we already have Moran and Azaz in the squad for the creative stuff if we want it). There's nobody else available who is anywhere near good enough.

[elatedscum]

Add Baba Adeeko to the injured list if we’re calling up League 1 midfielders. Bossed the midfield against Mainoo, McTominay and Bruno Fernandes - I know it’s not saying a lot but it’s more than most of our young midfielders

[MylesNotMiley]

There was a L1 midfielder Josh Sheehan playing for Wales this evening vs Turkey and he looked streets ahead of anything we have been picking over the last few years.

[Olé Olé]

This is rock bottom. No way good enough to be called up and it’s not as if we don’t have more interesting and progressive options for a free hit game. HH will have no idea who Coventry is, just going along with the established mediocrity. FFS the North are looking more clued up and promising than us now.


There was a L1 midfielder Josh Sheehan playing for Wales this evening vs Turkey and he looked streets ahead of anything we have been picking over the last few years.
Have I lost my way and landed on YBIG?

[Razors left peg]

Have I lost my way and landed on YBIG?

Seriously! We have lads calling for Hallgrimssons head already. I think there's an expectation with some that if we don't win every game 5 nil we are crap

[elatedscum]

Genuinely though, with Knight out we basically had 4 available midfielders in the squad:

Cullen
Molumby
Azaz
-
Moran

Probably best with 3 midfielders, so let’s assume you start the first three. Now Coventry and Moran are on the bench. Coventry flies from London to Dublin on Friday night, trains Saturday morning with the squad, flies to London for the game this evening and they play tomorrow.

Wouldn’t it have been better to have him there from the start? Training during the week, getting tactical prep etc, rather than being shoehorned in at the last second and maybe expected to perform.

Say what you want about Kenny but that was never an issue - always had enough bodies to handle injuries and suspensions. The fact that Doherty wasn’t in the squad and then ends up starting and Manning is used as a sub when you only called up one left back, well it strikes me as being bad early selection and squad management. It’s stuff at the margins and it doesn’t make a seismic difference but it seems easier to get right than get wrong.

Like Jim Crawford was allowed to call up 24 and 25 man squads when he was allowed to use 20 and we’ve been unable to fill our bench for about half of HH games.

[Eirambler]

I find that really strange too. Is it something the FAI has asked for recently due to cost-cutting I wonder? If it's just Hallgrimsson saying he only ever wants 23 in a squad it's a bad call in my view.


Seriously! We have lads calling for Hallgrimssons head already. I think there's an expectation with some that if we don't win every game 5 nil we are crap

Definitely some vested interests at play there, there is a small but visible minority that is clearly desperate for him to fail, and I'm guessing the reason has nothing to do with Hallgrimsson personally.

[elatedscum]

I find that really strange too. Is it something the FAI has asked for recently due to cost-cutting I wonder?

I’d be surprised since Jim called up 24 this window for the 21s, players are still rooming together as well AFAIK, so literally the only cost for a 24th player is a flight to Dublin and back to England. Plus the FAI have a commercial arrangement with both their hotels and airline meaning the overall costs are a lot less than you’d think

[Eirambler]

Are senior players not paid when they're called up? Always thought they received a (relatively small) payment. Or is it just if they get playing minutes?

[pineapple stu]

Definitely some vested interests at play there, there is a small but visible minority that is clearly desperate for him to fail, and I'm guessing the reason has nothing to do with Hallgrimsson personally.
If nothing else, the struggle to even get a manager should suggest we can't be sacking him after one campaign where he's surely exceeded expectations in terms of points (albeit we weren't great in either game against Finland)

[Supreme feet]

Lesson from Finland: Don't play two in midfield ever, ever again. At least not until Lawal and Akachukwu develop into the Irish Vieira and Makelele (it's the only glimmer of hope I have).

Unfortunately, despite Heimir's 4-4-2 proclivities, our squad is made for 3-5-2, as much as I dislike the formation and how we played it under O'Shea.

Our priority has to be to find a way to play Szmodics and Ferguson as a front two, so 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 are out. We have a glut of centre backs, and wing-backs like Doherty, Ebosele, Manning and O’Dowda don’t have the defensive nous to play as orthodox full-backs in a four. We need three in midfield - two is a nightmare waiting to happen with our lack of quality in there.

However, none of our centre backs play that system consistently at club level. And if we went with 3-5-2 as a rule, we'd have no place for the likes of Johnston or Ogbene in their best positions as wide forwards in a three, and they've been among our best performers in the last few years. So you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I can see sense in a hybrid 4-4-2 that changes to 3-5-2 when required with O’Shea at RB moving in one, Ebosele dropping back, the LB pushing on, and a central midfielder starting out wide (Moran/Azaz) and moving in. And I think that’s what Heimir is possibly aiming for. But it would take time to bed in, and for our players to be tactically intelligent and competent enough to adapt as the game develops. Which is very optimistic, I'm afraid.

I'd go with this for tomorrow if I was Heimir:

Kelleher
Ebosele – DOS – Collins – Scales – Manning/COD
Molumby – Cullen – Azaz
Ferguson - Szmodics

[Olé Olé]

Is there a subtle tweak to be made whereby Szmodics doesn't press from the front and he plays behind Ferguson? The allowed and disallowed goal prove that they might be better as a two with the opportunities to go beyond and beside one another.

I don't expect Molumby to exhibit more discipline than Knight this evening.

If we set up the same way Jude Bellingham and Harry Kane will absolutely crucify Cullen in that space between Cullen and Collins/Scales.

[liamoo11]

Lesson from Finland: Don't play two in midfield ever, ever again. At least not until Lawal and Akachukwu develop into the Irish Vieira and Makelele (it's the only glimmer of hope I have).

Unfortunately, despite Heimir's 4-4-2 proclivities, our squad is made for 3-5-2, as much as I dislike the formation and how we played it under O'Shea.

Our priority has to be to find a way to play Szmodics and Ferguson as a front two, so 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 are out. We have a glut of centre backs, and wing-backs like Doherty, Ebosele, Manning and O’Dowda don’t have the defensive nous to play as orthodox full-backs in a four. We need three in midfield - two is a nightmare waiting to happen with our lack of quality in there.

However, none of our centre backs play that system consistently at club level. And if we went with 3-5-2 as a rule, we'd have no place for the likes of Johnston or Ogbene in their best positions as wide forwards in a three, and they've been among our best performers in the last few years. So you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I can see sense in a hybrid 4-4-2 that changes to 3-5-2 when required with O’Shea at RB moving in one, Ebosele dropping back, the LB pushing on, and a central midfielder starting out wide (Moran/Azaz) and moving in. And I think that’s what Heimir is possibly aiming for. But it would take time to bed in, and for our players to be tactically intelligent and competent enough to adapt as the game develops. Which is very optimistic, I'm afraid.

I'd go with this for tomorrow if I was Heimir:

Kelleher
Ebosele – DOS – Collins – Scales – Manning/COD
Molumby – Cullen – Azaz
Ferguson - Szmodics

To me coll8ns and Scales have been much better since we went 4 at back. They have taken responsibility for those central zones. When we play 3 at the back unfortunately nine of our 3 centre halves have consistently shown the level of football intelligence to step into midfield to overload midfield to our advantage in possession and worse still the 3 at the back seems to have led to those 3 expecting one of the other centre halves to do the basics of defending their zone leaving us vulnerable centrally in our box and outside our box where we have given up a crazy amount of long-range goals.

Poyet on an interview with newstalk said he felt that he knew how Kenny would play because he would shoehorn perceived best players into his team even if the system.wasnt appropriate. So we ended up with 3 centre halves because we happened to have alot of centre halves. In reality coll8ns really is our only top class centre half. Scales is important because he is left footed which makes you more valuable as a centre half even if your general centre half abilities are not top class. o shea is decent but limited at a Gary breed type of level . Omobamidele just hasn't pushed on and may actually not be good enough at basic defending to be premier league level despite his technical and athletic ability. Mcguinness makes Duffy look like a technical footballer. Basically we are not leaving an o leary or a lawerence out by playing 2 centre halves.

Only jhaving 2 centre halves allows us commit 3 to central midfield which we absolutely have to do and definitely will do today.

[Eirambler]

Fully agree, and we get a third centre half on the pitch anyway when O'Shea (who I would say is our second best centre half) plays at right back. We don't need any more centre backs on the pitch than that.

[liamoo11]

Fully agree, and we get a third centre half on the pitch anyway when O'Shea (who I would say is our second best centre half) plays at right back. We don't need any more centre backs on the pitch than that.

Agree. Ebosele for me is who we need to develop as a right full back in a 4 to give us pace and athleticism in defence and attack. Festy is far better coming on to the ball than taking it in tight forward areas.

Problem for o shea is that while I agree he is a better defender than Scales been left footed means Scales is more valuable in that left sided centre back role.

[pineapple stu]

McGuinness in for his debut as a third centre-back in place of Johnston. Molumby and O'Shea for Knight and Doherty as well; Doherty is on the bench but Knight is of course suspended. Festy passed fit despite coming off on Thursday.

Heck of a match for your debut!

[~YTM~]

McGuinness in for his debut as a third centre-back in place of Johnston. Molumby and O'Shea for Knight and Doherty as well; Doherty is on the bench but Knight is of course suspended. Festy passed fit despite coming off on Thursday.

Heck of a match for your debut!

Some talk it might be 4-1-4-1 with Collins as the DM.

[pineapple stu]

Oh that'd be interesting, given all the talk about whether Collins could play in that role (since his goal against Ukraine I think?)

[liamoo11]

McGuinness in for his debut as a third centre-back in place of Johnston. Molumby and O'Shea for Knight and Doherty as well; Doherty is on the bench but Knight is of course suspended. Festy passed fit despite coming off on Thursday.

Heck of a match for your debut!

Seems irresponsible to pick festy. He was doubtful after last weekend and came off injured on Thursday night. Why risk serious injury for a friendly

[Olé Olé]

So we have 4 centre halves on the pitch and I don't see any of them being wing backs.

That means we are doing one of the following I think:

- Same formation as the other night but flat back 4 and O'Dowda left wing;
- Same formation as the other night but O'Dowda still full back and one of the 4 centre halves in midfield;
- 3-5-2 with O'Dowda and Festy wing backs and one of the centre halves in midfield.

May well be the first option but O'Dowda is doing a reverse Brady i.e. he's starting left wing but tucking in left back for a back 5 - similar to what Ogbene was doing in Finland away.

England's wingers are much more threatening than their full backs so having the bodies out wide and deeper is safer for us?

[~YTM~]

Oh that'd be interesting, given all the talk about whether Collins could play in that role (since his goal against Ukraine I think?)

Wonder though if it's gonna be in possession you'll have O'Shea, McGuinness, and Scales as a three with Collins sitting in front of them and out of possession it's gonna be 4-4-2 with the four CBs across the backline.

Edit:

See Gavin Cooney saying that we're warming up in a back five of O'Shea, McGuinness, Collins, Scales, and O'Dowda.

[tetsujin1979]

1858189959787642944

[brine3]

What's the carry on with 94 on the back of all the tracksuits?

[Eirambler]

Wonder though if it's gonna be in possession you'll have O'Shea, McGuinness, and Scales as a three with Collins sitting in front of them and out of possession it's gonna be 4-4-2 with the four CBs across the backline.

Edit:

See Gavin Cooney saying that we're warming up in a back five of O'Shea, McGuinness, Collins, Scales, and O'Dowda.

That reads as the worst possible outcome to me. Didn't like the selection to start with but I dislike that even more.


What's the carry on with 94 on the back of all the tracksuits?

Something to do with hype, apparently.

[pineapple stu]

England getting a big fine straight from the off. Almost like booing national anthems is what they consider culture

[liamoo11]

When we played England under Kenny in Wembley we were so gutless no tacking no aggression , maguire scoring with a header in our box. We need to be much netter tonight

[~YTM~]

That reads as the worst possible outcome to me. Didn't like the selection to start with but I dislike that even more.



Something to do with hype, apparently.

The new gear is inspired by our win over Italy back in 94. Yet we wore green that day but the hype kit is white.

[brine3]

Great that we are looking to the future haha

[Eirambler]

Thankfully it's not quite the feared back 5 with two in midfield. We seem to be trying to play Collins in two positions. Worth a shot I suppose.

[Olé Olé]

England getting a big fine straight from the off. Almost like booing national anthems is what they consider culture

Didn't we boo their anthem?

I guess we did so in response our colonial suffering.

Pity Rice and Grealish aren't playing. Bring them in for Jones and Madueke and you have a majority of Irish qualified players (Rice, Grealish, Gordon, Bellingham, Kane and Gallagher) on top of the Irish international manager.

[passinginterest]

Not the worst start. Shape is something different. Like the idea with Collins pushing on as a target for kick outs. Josh Cullen looks very nervy and has got us in trouble a couple of times. Good work closing down shots and space in the box so far. Need to get a bit more possession now.

[pineapple stu]

Didn't we boo their anthem?
We did after I'd posted that, yeah. Always highly likely unfortunately given they'd booed ours from the start.

We were both fined in September for it but England's fine was higher because it was a repeated issue with them

[Olé Olé]

We did after I'd posted that, yeah. Always highly likely unfortunately given they'd booed ours from the start.

We were both fined in September for it but England's fine was higher because it was a repeated issue with them
No I was referring to the reverse fixture. They were always likely to have a go.

[Olé Olé]

Can't believe that wasn't a penalty on Ferguson.