Republic of Ireland v Finland - Thursday, 14th November 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[pineapple stu]

Will let the mods do their thing with the thread title

Squad is announced - Duffy is back, as is Cannon and Coleman.

No Doherty, Omobamidele, Stevens, Browne or Manning (and Brady is injured) - it's becoming less and less clear where we're going at fullback. Coleman, Scales, O'Dowda, O'Shea for two places? Don't really like any of those options to be honest

No O'Brien. Five midfielders but eight attackers - and the mids include Andy Moran, who I thought was more an attacker? Feels a bit unbalanced there.

No Taylor either, which is strange as I thought he did well in his cameo in Greece

But we shall see how it goes

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/1107/1479659-moran-selected-coleman-duffy-return-for-november-ties/

[tetsujin1979]

Squad stats. Still quite young, even with Duffy and Coleman in the squad
1854512901974822954

[SkStu]

Will let the mods do their thing with the thread title

Squad is announced - Duffy is back, as is Cannon and Coleman.

No Doherty, Omobamidele, Stevens, Browne or Manning (and Brady is injured) - it's becoming less and less clear where we're going at fullback. Coleman, Scales, O'Dowda, O'Shea for two places? Don't really like any of those options to be honest

No O'Brien. Five midfielders but eight attackers - and the mids include Andy Moran, who I thought was more an attacker? Feels a bit unbalanced there.

No Taylor either, which is strange as I thought he did well in his cameo in Greece

But we shall see how it goes

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/1107/1479659-moran-selected-coleman-duffy-return-for-november-ties/

Midfield looks wafer thin there alright (which it is in terms of talent) but theres a case to be made for Johnston, McAteer and Ebosele to be listed in midfield - Ebosele even as a defender...

Interesting to see Duffy back. He has been playing well for Norwich by all accounts - and I suppose with O'Brien and Omobamidele not seeing game time, its a call he had to make. Maybe Manning could be in there too - problem position - not sure he is the answer to the problem but he is starting LB/LWB for Southampton in the EPL... really glad to see Cannon there too - I love how he plays and think hes going to be good for us.

[tetsujin1979]

Quite a few players missing through injury
1854517542108139601

[Eirambler]

One thing I don't particularly like about Hallgrimsson's approach is his squad sizes, he keeps them very tight. Already Coleman has been named but is a doubt for these games, so straight away that's a space that might need filling. Would much prefer him to call up 26, with an extra defender, midfielder and forward, especially this time as there's no competitive under 21 games. Otherwise the squad itself is largely fine.

[Colbert Report]

Ryan Manning missing out seems very strange, especially with Brady injured.

[Eirambler]

Apparently he wasn't too far off and still might get a late call in, but I think the problem is that Manning just isn't that good. He's a solid Championship player, but we have loads of those already, he's not great defensively and not especially quick going forward either. I could be wrong, but I'd predict that once Russell Martin gets the boot at Southampton that will be more or less it for Manning in the Premier League.

[pineapple stu]

I think while there is something in that, it has to be put in the context of our existing wing-back options being (it seems) Coleman (who may be injured, and for whom this season looks to be one too far), O'Dowda (who has looked exposed there before), Scales (didn't work out there for Celtic, and when he moved to centre-half he nailed down a spot) and O'Shea (again not his natural position)

He doesn't necessarily have to be good to be the best we have unfortunately.

[elatedscum]

Don't see why we keep having 23 man squads. Feels like we're an outlier in European footballer in that respect, then we continue to not call up replacements when players get injured. Presumably it's just FAI cost saving.

Kind of expected Doherty to be in, considering the quotes from both him and HH last time round - don't think he can complain though, same with O'Brien - they're not playing football and there's only so many you can carry like that. Coleman hasn't kicked a ball since the England game but I guess he's captain so he gets a call up - you'd still have concerns about how much he can play across the week, especially if he doesn't play this weekend... Very surprised Manning was left out, suspect him and John O'Shea had a disagreement but that's purely speculation. He's by far the most natural replacement for Brady and he's starting in the premier league.

Midfield clearly needs bulking up, I'd have Browne and Connell in there in addition to the current lads. Also think Callum Robinson is very unlucky to be left out considering his form...

[ifk101]

Yeah I’d have Manning in. Not that I particularly rate him, but we’re short on left sided players and he’s a capable set piece taker (something missing in the squad selected). Certainly, more deserving of a place instead of McAteer who isn’t playing with his club. Doherty doesn’t necessarily deserve to be in the squad but the explanation for leaving him out is weak. Could do without personality clashes.

[pineapple stu]

Also think Callum Robinson is very unlucky to be left out considering his form...
A bit, but I guess we've plenty of attackers in there so you're probably going to be leaving someone out to accommodate him (unlike adding, say, Manning, Browne or Connell). And who's that going to be? Johnston, Festy and McAteer are more wide players than forwards, so not a straight swap I think. Ferguson and Parrott are definitely ahead of him. Cannon looked lively against Portugal and I think has form and youth on his side; Szmodics is also on an upwards curve (albeit not as young); I'd have both ahead of Robinson. And that leaves Idah - but is Robinson for Idah really a material change?

[elatedscum]

A bit, but I guess we've plenty of attackers in there so you're probably going to be leaving someone out to accommodate him (unlike adding, say, Manning, Browne or Connell). And who's that going to be? Johnston, Festy and McAteer are more wide players than forwards, so not a straight swap I think. Ferguson and Parrott are definitely ahead of him. Cannon looked lively against Portugal and I think has form and youth on his side; Szmodics is also on an upwards curve (albeit not as young); I'd have both ahead of Robinson. And that leaves Idah - but is Robinson for Idah really a material change?

I don't really think you need to leave someone out. You should probably have 4 wide players, especially considering we've used Knight out wide in the past there but given the lack of midfielders that would be a bad idea. Szmodics could be considered the 4th wide man, which is fine - but I'd also have Robinson ahead of McAteer cause he isn't really playing at all. Played 19 mins in the league and 72 mins in the league cup since the last window...

[liamoo11]

Will let the mods do their thing with the thread title

Squad is announced - Duffy is back, as is Cannon and Coleman.

No Doherty, Omobamidele, Stevens, Browne or Manning (and Brady is injured) - it's becoming less and less clear where we're going at fullback. Coleman, Scales, O'Dowda, O'Shea for two places? Don't really like any of those options to be honest

No O'Brien. Five midfielders but eight attackers - and the mids include Andy Moran, who I thought was more an attacker? Feels a bit unbalanced there.

No Taylor either, which is strange as I thought he did well in his cameo in Greece

But we shall see how it goes

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/1107/1479659-moran-selected-coleman-duffy-return-for-november-ties/

Moran has been playing as a centre mid in a midfield 2 for Stoke so hopefully they look to use him in that role in a midfield 3 against England along with Cullen and molumby

[Eirambler]

Moran has been playing fine for Stoke, but not exceptionally. The general consensus of the supporters last week seemed to be that his MOTM awards was an error. He still seems to offer little or nothing out of possession so I wouldn't see much point in starting him against England. I think it's a question of whether you consider him as an alternative to Azaz or a less creative midfielder for the Finland game. If you play Moran in that game I think you would likely need to play Knight in one of the wide positions to make sure we have enough battlers in midfield when we don't have the ball.

[~YTM~]

Moran has been playing as a centre mid in a midfield 2 for Stoke so hopefully they look to use him in that role in a midfield 3 against England along with Cullen and molumby

Iceland used to play Sigurdsson as one of the midfield two so wouldn't be surprised if Hallgrimsson tries him out there. Don't see it happening this season though unless his performances for Stoke make him undroppable.

If we end up in a group that doesn't start until September 2025 then should try Moran out in midfield. Even for the U21s last month it felt like he was playing much deeper than he normally used to play. Phillips was often higher up the pitch than Moran when playing.

[MylesNotMiley]

Dara O'Shea is out injured this weekend according to McKenna today. He will probably pull out of the Ireland squad now too.

[elatedscum]

Barnsley v Rotherham on Sky Plus if anyone wants to see why Luca Connell should be in the Ireland squad. 5 minutes in was described as 'the best footballing midfielders, quarter backs, at the level for a number of seasons.". He had played 4 good passes in those first 5 mins... Corey O'Keefe and Joe Rafferty are both playing right back for their respective clubs along with Sean Raggett at centre-back.

My money is that HH has no idea who Luca Connell is

[liamoo11]

Barnsley v Rotherham on Sky Plus if anyone wants to see why Luca Connell should be in the Ireland squad. 5 minutes in was described as 'the best footballing midfielders, quarter backs, at the level for a number of seasons.". He had played 4 good passes in those first 5 mins... Corey O'Keefe and Joe Rafferty are both playing right back for their respective clubs along with Sean Raggett at centre-back.

My money is that HH has no idea who Luca Connell is

Joe rafferty , I had high hopes for him in his liverpool days. Luca is a bit of a slow conor hourihane just can't see the athleticism there to play at premier league. Lovely footballer non the less

[elatedscum]

Dara O'Shea is out injured this weekend according to McKenna today. He will probably pull out of the Ireland squad now too.

Who would be the contenders to replace him? The biggest problem is that O'Shea was perhaps your starting right back as well. So you really need two players to cover his loss

Centre-halves:

Currently Injured: O'Shea, Omobamidele, Salter-Clarke, McNally, Lenihan, Lawal
Not Playing: O'Brien, Egan, McLoughlin
Playing: Cashin, Dunne, Molloy, Garcia-McNulty

Think it's probably too far or too soon for the likes of Adegboyega, O'Riordan and the LOI boys (Is Joe Redmond the outstanding centre-half? Dan Cleary? Lee Grace?)

I guess it has to be Jake O'Brien. Otherwise Eirin Cashin if you want someone who is playing regularly. But jesus, what are the options at full-back now?

RB: Seamus Coleman who hasn't played in 2 months, Festy Ebosele, an attacking wing back or winger
LB: Callum O'Dowda and Festy Ebosele, attacking wingbacks - and Liam Scales, a centre-half who has really struggled at left back both with club and country.

For all the talk of experimentation, we have dropped Doherty for 2 squads and Brady is now injured and we still haven't seen any of Josh Key, Jon Gallagher, Danny McNamara, Ryan Manning, Will Ferry, Sean Roughan etc in a HH squad. Not sure any of them are good enough, except Manning, but I think as a manager, you take your best guess and at least watch them in training - I also don't think any of them would embarrass themselves against Finland. Unlimited squad and the only natural fullback is a 36 year old who last played in the league in August...

[elatedscum]

Interesting battle between Ebosele and Kioso on SkySports. Both did very well. Kioso having just declared for DRC - immediately looks good enough.

Festy just carried off injured, Rocco Vata comes on

[Eirambler]

That will be Ebosele gone for these games now as well. Our right side absolutely decimated at this point.

[Predator]

Step forward, Mr Doherty...

[elatedscum]

Step forward, Mr Doherty...

Couldn’t expect him to accept a call up after that amount of disrespect ;)

[~YTM~]

Dara O'Shea is out injured this weekend according to McKenna today. He will probably pull out of the Ireland squad now too.

McKenna said today in his press conference he'll be playing.

There are "no new injury concerns" for the game with defenders Axel Tuanzebe and Jacob Greaves set to be available for selection after the November international break, as well as midfielder Jack Taylor. Defender Dara O'Shea is set to play again despite an ongoing back problem.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/clyv30pyjjno

[tetsujin1979]

Coleman not in Everton's squad today
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[Eirambler]

Squad looks like it will need some reinforcement tomorrow. It looks top heavy on forwards anyway, and very light at centre mid and full back.

Doherty and/or Manning probably should come in now given Coleman's situation on the right and the fact that we don't have a recognised left back in the squad as things stand. We might need both, or another centre back (likely O'Brien) if O'Shea drops out.

Alan Browne went off injured yesterday. He wasn't named in the squad, but we look really light on cover in midfield. Smallbone, McGrath, Taylor, Browne, Hodge and Lawal all currently injured. Conor Coventry may be next for a midfield call up at this point.

Things not looking as bad further forward but with Ebosele likely gone that might open a space for someone like Mark Sykes.

Right now I'd take a point (v Finland) from the two games to be honest. Avoid the automatic relegation place and move on to the spring. Maybe go with something like:

---------------Kelleher
O'Shea Duffy Collins Scales
--------Cullen Molumby
----Knight Azaz Szmodics
--------------Ferguson

[pineapple stu]

Sykes is injured I think - came off after 5 minutes midweek and didn't feature yesterday.

Agree I'd take a point now - we just don't have the strength in depth to be able to afford an injury list like we have now.

[Diggs246]

Zero chance I'd take a point
We have enough to beat Finland at home.

I do think Taylor is a real loss. I thought he was great v greece. He totally changed the game IMO.

[tetsujin1979]

O'Shea starting against spurs

[third policeman]

Alan Browne went off injured yesterday. He wasn't named in the squad, but we look really light on cover in midfield. Smallbone, McGrath, Taylor, Browne, Hodge and Lawal all currently injured. Conor Coventry may be next for a midfield call up at this point.

Would love to see Connell given a call-up ahead of Coventry. Don't normally advocate on behalf of League 1 players, but he's captaining an in form Barnsley and has been a standout player at that level since ending his exile ar Cwltic.

[Eirambler]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but it was reported in October that Coventry had only narrowly missed out then, which is why I suspect he might be the next cab off the rank. It would be a League 1 callup either way, which we haven't had to resort to so much recently.

[MylesNotMiley]

McKenna said today in his press conference he'll be playing.

There are "no new injury concerns" for the game with defenders Axel Tuanzebe and Jacob Greaves set to be available for selection after the November international break, as well as midfielder Jack Taylor. Defender Dara O'Shea is set to play again despite an ongoing back problem.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/clyv30pyjjno

I'm pretty sure McKenna said O'Shea was out during his press conference on Friday. Perhaps I miss heard.

[SkStu]

Would love to see Connell given a call-up ahead of Coventry. Don't normally advocate on behalf of League 1 players, but he's captaining an in form Barnsley and has been a standout player at that level since ending his exile ar Cwltic.

Would be an intriguing call up alright. Would love to see it. Such a pity he had that illness at the start of the 23/24 season after a stellar showing the season before where his form was where it is now. I think he missed most preseason and pretty much the first half of the season iirc?

[rebelmusic]

I'm pretty sure McKenna said O'Shea was out during his press conference on Friday. Perhaps I miss heard.

He's carrying an injury to his back which they've been managing with reduced training and painkillers. Played the full game against spurs today and had a really solid game. I'd say it's more that he's a risk of aggravating the injury more than anything else. Maybe have him on for Finland and put Duffy in against England for the added set play threat. This is all assuming he's played as a CB and not an RB again

[geysir]

I think while there is something in that, it has to be put in the context of our existing wing-back options being (it seems) Coleman (who may be injured, and for whom this season looks to be one too far), O'Dowda (who has looked exposed there before), Scales (didn't work out there for Celtic, and when he moved to centre-half he nailed down a spot) and O'Shea (again not his natural position)

He doesn't necessarily have to be good to be the best we have unfortunately. Scales filled in a few times for Celtic at LB before he went on a season loan to Aberdeen (2022/23). Jim Goodwin said at the time that he saw him very much as a left sided CH. Frankly I don't see how anybody saw him as a LB per se in a Celtic team, except as cover or gaining match experience < going on loan.

[Diggs246]

Have we given up on Dennis Cirkin? seems odd that no journalist seems to ask about him, when we are screaming for a LB

[pineapple stu]

Doherty, O'Brien and Manning added to the squad; Coleman, Duffy and Idah injured. (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/1111/1480271-doherty-recalled-by-hallgrimsson-as-injury-cover/)



It is unclear what Duffy's issue is, the defender played 90 minutes for Norwich in their 2-0 home defeat to Bristol City on Saturday. Idah suffered an ankle injury late in Celtic's 3-0 win over Motherwell at the weekend.
Celtic's win over Motherwell was two weeks ago at this stage; Idah missed one game as a result and even started at the weekend. Strange comment.

[Stuttgart88]

Scales filled in a few times for Celtic at LB before he went on a season loan to Aberdeen (2022/23). Jim Goodwin said at the time that he saw him very much as a left sided CH. Frankly I don't see how anybody saw him as a LB per se in a Celtic team, except as cover or gaining match experience < going on loan.I think he looks a bit clumsy at left back. I think he's better facing play from a central position than he is from the touchline.

[Stuttgart88]

Doherty, O'Brien and Manning added to the squad; Coleman, Duffy and Idah injured. (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2024/1111/1480271-doherty-recalled-by-hallgrimsson-as-injury-cover/)



Celtic's win over Motherwell was two weeks ago at this stage; Idah missed one game as a result and even started at the weekend. Strange comment.Well we got there in the end I suppose. I think we all know there's a good footballer inside Doherty (or was anyway) but his recent performances have been poor. Manning failed to impress me in one or two games under Kenny but it was righly pointed out to me that he wasn't match fit and that counts for a lot. He's playing regularly. If the best versions of these guys turn up we should be OK. Idah isn't a loss imho, much as I like him. I think forward is an area where we have plenty of good options.

The RTE reporting was just bizarre.

[Eirambler]

Duffy was likely brought in to bring a bit more steel and experience to the back line, so while he's technically very limited he'll be a loss in that regard. I don't see Idah as a huge loss right now, it opens the door for Cannon to finally make his first competitive appearance, which is overdue. I prefer Cannon at this point in time anyway and we've seen plenty of Idah so we know what he can and cannot do. Coleman was expected, Doherty will probably still be behind O'Shea if O'Shea is OK to play.

The surprise for me is that Festy hasn't been ruled out (yet).

[pineapple stu]

Well we got there in the end I suppose.
It does feel like we've strengthened the squad through injuries, strangely.

Robinson can maybe be a bit put out that he's not been brought in to replace Idah, but to be honest, much and all as he's on a purple patch right now, he's never really delivered much bar those six goals in four games three years ago. Agree we're ok with Ferguson, Cannon and Parrott there.

[Demesne Lad]

It does feel like we've strengthened the squad through injuries, strangely.

Robinson can maybe be a bit put out that he's not been brought in to replace Idah, but to be honest, much and all as he's on a purple patch right now, he's never really delivered much bar those six goals in four games three years ago. Agree we're ok with Ferguson, Cannon and Parrott there.

Robinson predicted at the beginning of the season that he would do well, because he was injury free and felt particularly fit after a good pre-season preparation. Ironically, he is now carrying an Achilles injury and was not in Cardiff's squad on Saturday.

[Eirambler]

One thing I notice is that we're teetering on the brink of having a squad with no 30-something players in it. Brady is injured this time, Coleman and Duffy have dropped out but Doherty has snuck in late to keep a 30+ player in the squad.

It is however now a squad that has zero players that have played at major tournament finals, or even been in a finals squad. I'm not sure if we have had a squad before now where that has been the case (other than before Euro 88 obviously). Possibly we did at some point under Kenny, someone might know. There also isn't a single player with over 50 caps.

[tetsujin1979]

One thing I notice is that we're teetering on the brink of having a squad with no 30-something players in it. Brady is injured this time, Coleman and Duffy have dropped out but Doherty has snuck in late to keep a 30+ player in the squad.

It is however now a squad that has zero players that have played at major tournament finals, or even been in a finals squad. I'm not sure if we have had a squad before now where that has been the case (other than before Euro 88 obviously). Possibly we did at some point under Kenny, someone might know. There also isn't a single player with over 50 caps.
The average number of caps in the squad is 15!

There's been a few games recently where the starting XI had no tournament experience, the last time was the Dutch game a year ago - Bazunu, Doherty, Manning, O'Shea, Scales, Collins, Browne, Cullen, Knight, Robinson, Ferguson
Duffy was an unused sub, the only player in the team who has appeared in a tournament

I'm pretty sure the last time there was zero tournament appearances across the starters and subs is the last game before Euro 88, against Poland in May 1998
Starting XI: Peyton, Morris, Hughton, McGrath, Moran, Galvin, Whelan, Sheridan, Sheedy, Cascarino, Aldridge
Subs: Quinn, Byrne, Kelly, O'Brien

[pineapple stu]

England have lost eight players from their squad - Alexander-Arnold, Rice, Saka, Palmer, Colwill, Foden, Grealish and Ramsdale - and have called up Branthwaite, Bowen, Trafford and Livramento. Still can't see us getting a result out there, mind. But nice to see Grealish and Rice won't be scoring against us again anyway.

[Eirambler]

Surprised they haven't called up Delap. He's in form and they can completely tie him with a cap in a NL game of minimal importance to them.

[geysir]

I think he looks a bit clumsy at left back. I think he's better facing play from a central position than he is from the touchline.
I guess now that he had issues returning to the Celtic first team after Aberdeen which affected his performances in August '23, issues which were quickly dealt with by Rodgers.
Aberdeen had wanted a buy-in clause in that loan deal but Ange point blank refused, obviously saw something of note in Scales.

[Stuttgart88]

I didn't know that. I always assumed it was the opposite, Ange didn't rate him.

[elatedscum]

HH said in his press conference basically that he only called Andy Moran up because the 21s didn't have a game and wanted to see him in that environment but didn't really see him playing and saw him as more one for the future. also he has a calf knock.

the squad continues to decrease in viable options with O'Shea and Ebosele still doubts, they hadn't trained yet but were going to try today and assess if they got through training ok

[2 Year Contract]

HH said in his press conference basically that he only called Andy Moran up because the 21s didn't have a game and wanted to see him in that environment but didn't really see him playing and saw him as more one for the future. also he has a calf knock.

Anyone going to tell him that firstly the 21s do have games and secondly Moran is now too old to play competitive games for the 21s