Republic of Ireland v Greece - Tuesday, 10th September 2024 - UEFA Nations League

[rebelmusic]

I will say this once - when the f*ck will Irish defenders stop backing off a striker 20 yards out from the goal, allowing them an eternity to set up, pick their spot and strike the ball - and when the f*ck will a manager of the Irish team stop it from happening?

The fact that two assistant coaches spent their careers in defense adds to how criminal this is.

Another thing I've noticed is that the team doesn't know what to do when we have a throw in. They almost always, always give it back to the opposition everytime. Surely this is something that could have been noticed and ironed out in training.

I haven't been this exasperated since a certain 5-2 defeat...

[Razors left peg]

The fact that two assistant coaches spent their careers in defense adds to how criminal this is.

Another thing I've noticed is that the team doesn't know what to do when we have a throw in. They almost always, always give it back to the opposition everytime. Surely this is something that could have been noticed and ironed out in training.

I haven't been this exasperated since a certain 5-2 defeat...

Remember these defensive coaches also picked Shane Duffy to start over O'Brien in the summer against Hungary, and also Doherty... both who were so bad they had to be pulled at half time.

Im hoping that Hallgrimsson will see through the nonsense now after being with them this week and maybe even look to bring in another coach that hes worked with in the past. It couldnt be clearer that keeping the boys on for jobs is a shambles, and the glimmer tonight as I said earlier is that we seen Hallgrimsson actually be the boss for the 1st time. I even liked how he spoke post game.

[elatedscum]

Thought it was a good first half - the better team for the majority of the half and very unlucky for the Ogbene goal to be just offside. Fine margins.

Haven’t watched them back, just in the stadium but thought both goals were really poor - thought there was some positional issues with midfield and one of O’Shea or Collins should get out and block the shot - reminded me of a tonne of goals we’ve conceded since Duffy has left the team. Similar to previous games against Greece, once they took the lead, they were happy just holding possession and seeing it out.

I felt the majority of the substitutions were mistakes. I would have taken off Browne instead of Molumby and Smallbone instead of Knight. Knight did himself no favours by getting booked for descent but he had much more left in his legs than Browne and Smallbone struggled dropping back.

Also I would have done Parrott instead of Idah and taken off Brady rather than Ogbene - Brady was knackered and had nothing left to give. As we mentioned before the game, it wasn’t helped by a lack of any midfielders on the bench - meant changes weren’t as simple as they could be.

As for the second goal, both Doherty and Collins switched off. Doherty let the runner go, Collins plays him onside and is slow to turn on the gas, does well to catch up but gets chopped too easy and Doherty hasn’t made the run back to cover.

The ground absolutely emptied out when that second goal went in. Haven’t seen it like that in forever.

Positives from tonight are largely the first half - Omobamidele did well at right back, apart from throw ins - I think they were just loading pace on our right to stop Tsimikas as much as possible . Smallbone was good in the 10 slot at times, knitting little passes to Ogbene. Ogbene had a good game, and dominated their best player. Knight was good. Szmodics is a good footballer and did well, maybe better playing off a striker that leading the line himself. Kasey McAteer showed a few bright moments.

Onto October - hopefully we will see a return of Cullen, McGrath, Azaz, Johnston and Cannon - and O’Brien will be pushing for a starting berth.

[backstothewall]

Where do you even start with that?

From the kick off we looked bereft of confidence.

But then we came into things a bit. Ogbene started running at them and had the beating of his full back in the air. Smallbone played a few neat and tidy passes in their half and Szmodics looked lively. Then the crowd started making a bit of noise and you could see a bit of belief creeping back into them.
I would have made a change before the half hour mark though. There were a couple of times the crowd were baying for the ball to go into the box but with Szmodics leading the line on his own there was nobody there to get on the end of a cross. I would have introduced Idah before the half hour mark.

Then the goal came.

Yet again we back off a guy on the edge of the box and give him the time and space to take a touch and pick his spot. Criminal defending.


when the f*ck will Irish defenders stop backing off a striker 20 yards out from the goal, allowing them an eternity to set up, pick their spot and strike the ball - and when the f*ck will a manager of the Irish team stop it from happening?

Basic problems tend to have basic solutions. This will stop once we start dropping players over it, and that should start in October. Central defence is a position we have a bit of strength in depth in. We have options playing at a similar level to the established starters who have been waiting for a chance. Collins and O’Shea should both be dropped. Asking nicely clearly isn’t working.
We huffed and puffed in the second half, but we never looked like scoring. By the last quarter of the game Smallbone looked a shadow of the man who was playing nice through balls in the first half.
Idah finally coming on with Robinson was our queue to try to beat the traffic. I was out of earshot before the Greeks got the second, but it was no surprise. There was a time not that long ago when you wouldn’t have dared leaving Lansdowne Rd if Ireland were chasing an equalisrer. It feels a lifetime ago now.

It felt to me that John O’Shea’s fingerprints were all over both team selections and performances. I would hope to see something very difference in October

[Fixer82]

I will say this once - when the f*ck will Irish defenders stop backing off a striker 20 yards out from the goal, allowing them an eternity to set up, pick their spot and strike the ball - and when the f*ck will a manager of the Irish team stop it from happening?

Absolutely. I was screaming at the TV to close him down. Couldn’t get my head around them not getting in his face

[seanfhear]

Absolutely. I was screaming at the TV to close him down. Couldn’t get my head around them not getting in his face
I hope that Kelleher was also doing this and continues to do this to better affect in future as well.

[Stuttgart88]

Funny thing is, had that been a Kenny performance we’d be saying yet again we let a game that had something to be taken from just slip away. Losing goals to shots from 20 yards, yet again. Like Didi Hamann used to say, we’re a team that just loses matches too easily and that’s still the case.

But because of the new manager we can put the spin on it that it’s an improvement. The shape looked good, we moved the ball well at times and although we didn’t create much it was generally cohesive and organised (until it wasn’t).

The fact remains that we routinely come out the wrong side of marginal contests while good teams like Greece do the opposite. Greece score from 20 yards, Browne forgets his technique and skies over from the same position, just like Molumby and Szmodics against England. I felt that Greece were just waiting for a good chance that they just knew would come, even while we were playing well. Both winning and losing are habits, which is why I’ve felt a spell in League C might be needed to generate confidence and momentum – if indeed we’re even good enough to win games in League C!

But carelessness and lack of incision aside, I thought there genuinely were good parts. Molumby played really well - in the first half at least. There was a spell on 20 and 21 minutes that was really accomplished progressive possession football. The switch to a back 4 worked well. Knight and Smallbone played well. Omobamidele looks confident again. We looked well balanced. We competed.

I do have to say though that had Bazunu conceded the first goal he’d be slaughtered here. Kelleher was perfectly positioned for the shot. He was only a few feet from his right hand post and he just waved it in. No?

[Eirambler]

I think the difference this morning is that, while the result is disappointing, I can see the logic to what we're doing now, whereas previously there was none. It felt like we were back at square one last night - but that's actually an improvement from where we were on Saturday and in the friendly games.

The frustrating thing is (and will probably continue to be) watching HH slowly learn things that a lot of us already know. It was clear we needed to switch to a four and that we needed to pack the midfield. But that also meant calling up another central midfielder or two - and yet we didn't do that. It was probably too late when Heimir figured it out.

I thought Omobamidele at right back was a decent idea. But I still think it would make more sense for O'Shea to be the centre back that moves out. Hopefully that will be learnt also.

Matt Doherty just doesn't have the heart for international football, I absolutely don't mean this in a negative way, but I'm fairly sure his brain is wired differently to a lot of us, there are a lot of red flags there. He doesn't have the natural reaction to think, "I've been caught out here, need to bust a gut now to get back and make up for it", it's just not how he sees the world I'd say. Unfortunately we probably just can't carry that at the moment and I struggle to see what useful role he could play for us from here.

If he gets back fully fit and playing I think we'll see Egan come back in. We need one older, experienced head to marshall the back line and he's probably more likely than Duffy...but much as I'm not a big fan I wouldn't 100% rule out a return for Duffy either. Once we're not playing out from the back the case for him does become stronger. He'd have closed down that shot for the first goal last night.

The other thing Hallgrimsson probably now realises, which we could have told him a month ago, is that he's very much on his own here. The last week has been very telling in terms of who has what role in the management setup. O'Shea probably isn't the biggest problem here, I just don't think he has the first clue about the tactical side of the game. But he'll support a manager, do a press conference and sound coherent, and generally won't be a nuisance around the place.

The bigger problem I think is probably McCarthy. He strikes me as a guy who has strong tactical views on football, just not the right ones for us. He'll have done his coaching badges, worked with youth players at Crystal Palace and assisting with the senior squad also and will have learned a certain fashionable way to set up a team and play the game. The problem I think is that he is like Kenny in that he doesn't understand why the tactics at a Premier League team like Crystal Palace won't work with the more technically limited group of players in the Ireland squad. And then has no idea how to change things to get the best out of a weaker group. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him move(d) on before too long and Heimir brings in someone who is a better fit for what needs to be done with this Ireland squad.

[Acornvilla]

I am torn, I think it wasn't a bad performance generally, but the goals were stupid and avoidable, if both taken excellently, in a way we just never seem to. Pty about Chio's offside goal, it would have been wonderful. I think it was very marginally better than either of the Kenny v Greece performances. Agree with those basically saying HH needs to be ruthless, if people won't run or learn to close people down at the edge of the box they should watch some games from the sideline until they get it in to their heads. I don't think we're a mile away from something, but we really need a bit of luck to get on a run you'd imagine. Something like the Hungary friendly win, but when it matters.

I think Parrott not playing any minutes ahead of someone who hasn't played any football in half a year is mental.

We're not going to be at a stage where we can take anyone in league B for granted any time soon, everything needs to go right to get results these days, and we keep finding ways to lose.

[Stuttgart88]

Manager's take:

Manager Heimir Hallgrimsson says his team are lacking in confidence and that the Republic of Ireland shirt is metaphorically "too heavy" for some players.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cx29rl9zyxqo

Republic of Ireland 0-2 Greece: Irish shirt 'too heavy' for some players - Hallgrimsson - BBC Sport

After defeat by England on Saturday, the Republic of Ireland's difficult start to the Nations League continued as Greece ran out 2-0 winners in Dublin.
Fotis Ioannidis and Christos Tzolis netted for Greece after Chiedozie Ogbene had a first-half effort ruled out for the hosts.
The defeat was a fourth competitive loss in a row and means the Irish have only won three of their last 15 matches - with two those of those victories coming over minnows Gibraltar.
"It's a confidence thing. It feels like maybe the jersey is a little bit too heavy for some players," said former Iceland manager Hallgrimsson, whose first match in charge was the loss to England.
"When they put it on they don't maybe show the same quality as they do for their clubs. We just need to change that."



Hallgrimsson, who added he is a "sore loser", said he felt better about the organisation of his side in the first half against Greece, compared to the first 90 minutes of his reign against England.
He added that the Republic were "punished" for not taking their chances before Ioannidis' superb opener early in the first half.
"That happens to teams who are lacking confidence. It's the details in decision making, etc," said the 57-year-old.
"Greece are a team who are difficult to play against when they are one goal ahead.
"It was tough when we conceded the first goal because I thought we played pretty well until then. The first half was good in the eyes of organisation and compactness.
"We didn't give them chances and had really good options when we were going forward."
With fixtures away to Finland and Greece to come in October, Hallgrimsson said he needed to find a swift solution to the issues facing the Irish.
"The solution is to find these connections and the understanding between the players," he said.
"My job is to turn this around - nobody told me it was going to be an easy job.
"I know it is going to take time but I feel that the first step is positive. Even though we lost the two games I feel that the first step is positive."

[ifk101]

Unfair to question the fitness levels? Molumby, Browne, Smallbone, and Knight all looked spent to me early on in the second half and needed to be replaced. Those players did cover a lot of ground and closed spaces in the 1st half, but still … The first half was good because we closed space + had a high intensity. Greece did have a lot of misplaced balls in the 1st because of our pressing. But maybe harsh to expect we can do 90mins of high intensity running.

[tetsujin1979]

Worth noting that both goals originated from almost the same spot, about a third of the way from the halfway line, in the Greek half of the pitch. For the first goal, someone (I think Molumby?) tried to put the ball out for a throw but it was intercepted, Greece got the ball out to their right, the Irish defence was still resetting, and Ioannidis had time to pick his shot. For the second, a quick throw is flicked behind the high line to release Tzolis.

A small thing I noticed was the ballboys were giving the balls back immediately to both sets of players for throw ins. They could have given it a beat before giving it back to the Greek players, just to give the Irish players an extra second to reset. I was sitting up from the corner flag on the far side, on the right as you watch it on TV, so I don't know if it was the same on the opposite side.
I'm not blaming the ballboys for the result, it's just a small thing I noticed

[John83]

... at least we're not 2-0 down and outclassed
This aged badly.

That first half was fine. Dull, lacking in cutting edge, but dominant in possession and making some chances with minimal risk. Ogbene was bright; that offside goal was a lovely finish too. Second half was awful. Worse, I don't think a single substitution improved things. Smallbone's movement was good though his passing was sloppy at times. Brady looked perfectly fine. Doherty was very poor though. I didn't think much of Molumby or Browne, but then we looked much flakier after Molumby came off so maybe I misjudged him. Or at least we didn't have a suitable alternative in Smallbone.

I think we're going to be **** until a midfielder worth a damn matures, but we can't keep giving away those soft goals from the edge of the box.

[Stuttgart88]

Return of Cullen may help, (re)introduction of Azaz maybe...

[texidub]

Johnston offers something different too.

[Eirambler]

I think Cullen will look a different player in a better resourced midfield. Should definitely be bringing McGrath and Azaz back in for cover there as well. If Lawal breaks into the Stoke first team after injury he's a cert for another call up sooner rather than later. Further forward a month should bring on Ferguson and there's Cannon to come back also.

At least in midfield and up front there are multiple options, even if they're not necessarily brilliant options. I think full back is probably the bigger issue, in terms of producing natural players in the position. On the right I think we've reached the end of the road with Doherty and Coleman is all but done as a starter, maybe still a useful bench option - I'd have rathered have him to come on last night than Doherty. But after that it's really all centre backs that can cover across - O'Shea, Dunne, Omobamidele etc., very limited natural full back options - Key and McNamara the only ones I can think of playing at a decent level.

Left back is similar, worse again if anything. O'Shea and Scales are centre backs that can cover. Brady sort of did a job last night. Roughan isn't ready. Need to push hard for Cirkin now maybe, he's not playing for England under 21. The two full back positions are going to have to be sorted out before we can hope to improve much.

[tetsujin1979]

I left last night after full time, and the dart had already filled from people who left after the second goal. We had to wait for the next one to arrive.
That's never happened before

[John83]

Yeah, they poured out after the second goal. Partly it was timing, but people are definitely a bit fed up with the team.

[Predator]

There were a few boos at different points yesterday, but is it true that people booed Matt Doherty's introduction?

[Stuttgart88]

Big boos at Smallbone being announced MOTM too. What was that about?

[Eirambler]

I think people are just sick of the nonsense of giving MOTM awards to one of our players in games we lose. Nothing personal against Smallbone. Needs to be stopped, or at least announcing them in the stadium needs to be. If they want to have a small presentation out of sight with the player after the game that's probably OK.

[weldoninhio]

Funny thing is, had that been a Kenny performance we’d be saying yet again we let a game that had something to be taken from just slip away. Losing goals to shots from 20 yards, yet again. Like Didi Hamann used to say, we’re a team that just loses matches too easily and that’s still the case.

But because of the new manager we can put the spin on it that it’s an improvement. The shape looked good, we moved the ball well at times and although we didn’t create much it was generally cohesive and organised (until it wasn’t).

The fact remains that we routinely come out the wrong side of marginal contests while good teams like Greece do the opposite. Greece score from 20 yards, Browne forgets his technique and skies over from the same position, just like Molumby and Szmodics against England. I felt that Greece were just waiting for a good chance that they just knew would come, even while we were playing well. Both winning and losing are habits, which is why I’ve felt a spell in League C might be needed to generate confidence and momentum – if indeed we’re even good enough to win games in League C!

But carelessness and lack of incision aside, I thought there genuinely were good parts. Molumby played really well - in the first half at least. There was a spell on 20 and 21 minutes that was really accomplished progressive possession football. The switch to a back 4 worked well. Knight and Smallbone played well. Omobamidele looks confident again. We looked well balanced. We competed.

I do have to say though that had Bazunu conceded the first goal he’d be slaughtered here. Kelleher was perfectly positioned for the shot. He was only a few feet from his right hand post and he just waved it in. No?

Kenny had 4 years with the team, has HH even had 4 training sessions??

[nigel-harps1954]

Kenny had 4 years with the team, has HH even had 4 training sessions??

No, but John O'Shea has had three separate camps and the majority of a years worth of games with them and they've ultimately regressed.

I haven't shown this level of disinterest in the team since after the shocker of a Northern Ireland friendly in 2018.

[ifk101]

Kenny's last year was dismal in the extreme. But that last year coincided with John O’Shea joining as assistant. And since he has come on board, there has been a rapid deterioration in performance + results. Lest we forget it wasn’t all bad under Kenny. Different team when Barry and Eustace were assistant, compared to O’Shea in the role. Just as an aside, anybody else noticed how poor our set-plays are these days - around 30% of goals are scored from set plays. Did we look like scoring from a set play last night?

[Stuttgart88]

Kenny had 4 years with the team, has HH even had 4 training sessions??

I'm just saying the performance and outcome were very similar to comparable home games under Kenny, but the changed context makes it somewhat positive instead of totally negative. Which I think is fair.

[Bottle of Tonic]

Thought we played really well in that first half and were well in control of the game. The Greeks looked like they were just going through the motions. I wasn't sure we'd score, but the overall balance of the team and the tempo was excellent, in comparison to what we've been used to recently.

The goal was such a suckerpunch to our fragile confidence. Its not the first time I've sat in that stadium while time appears to stand still as the opposition line up a strike from distance that you already know us going in. I must have said "no" to myself about 5 seconds before the ball hit the net, it was that clear what was gonna happen.

Suddenly the Greeks are owning the ball and spraying it around and killing any chance of a comeback. We threw Ferguson on but to no effect. I'm not convinced he will be as good for us as we hope he might be. Still a lot of hurdles to overcome for him to go on and have a good career.

Hard to be positive when we are building up such a losing habit. But sure as night follows day I'll be clinging to that first half on the eve of the next double header and telling myself that we have the foundations of something under HH.

[backstothewall]

I think it’s time for sweeping changes to the starting 11, particularly the back 4.

They have lost 4 in a row and it’s not as if there are massive gaps in terms of quality between the established starters and the guys who have been on the fringes until now. The players we are picking game after game have also had their confidence shot to bits. We need change for Finland.


------------------ Kelleher ------------------
Ebosele Obamadele O'Brien Manning*
Ogbene Cullen Smallbone McAteer
-- Idah/Ferguson Parrott/Szmodics --

* Dennis Cirkin is playing regularly at left back for Sunderland at the top of the championship. HH should move heaven and earth between now and then to try to get him to declare for us.

[third policeman]

Has there been any attempt to court Dewsbury Hall? What are his prospects of getting an England call-up given the competition, but he would be an upgrade on anything we currently have.

[Crosby87]

Has there been any attempt to court Dewsbury Hall?

What is that? A dorm at Princeton?

[Predator]

Just as an aside, anybody else noticed how poor our set-plays are these days - around 30% of goals are scored from set plays. Did we look like scoring from a set play last night?I haven't checked this, so it may simply be rose-tinted glasses, but it feels like we were much more dangerous from set-plays under Martin O'Neill. Ironically, many critics mocked O'Neill's apparent attitude to set-plays (which we were told was basically get it into the box for the big lad to head it).

[JR89]

Early days yet for HH, but this feels very Kenny-esque. Decent start, couldn't keep up the pace, picked off in the second half, lost our way, no real cutting edge, ultimately deservedly beaten.

Two games in and already it's third (and a relegation play-off) at best.

Would rather finish fourth than third. Avoid the relegation playoff next March so HH would at least have some friendlies before the qualifiers.

Also would mean being in League C when qualification for the Euros is linked to the NLs.

[mark12345]

This aged badly.

That first half was fine. Dull, lacking in cutting edge, but dominant in possession and making some chances with minimal risk. Ogbene was bright; that offside goal was a lovely finish too. Second half was awful. Worse, I don't think a single substitution improved things. Smallbone's movement was good though his passing was sloppy at times. Brady looked perfectly fine. Doherty was very poor though. I didn't think much of Molumby or Browne, but then we looked much flakier after Molumby came off so maybe I misjudged him. Or at least we didn't have a suitable alternative in Smallbone.

I think we're going to be **** until a midfielder worth a damn matures, but we can't keep giving away those soft goals from the edge of the box.

That we keep giving up soft goals is a cause for concern. But I suppose to be "concerned" one would have to be hopeful in the first place. And that's quite an ask right now.
The problems with this team can be traced all the way back to the domestic game. It is as it has been for the last 50 years - nonexistent.
When a father in Ireland can send his son to a local coach in a quest to become the next Robbie Keane, Harry Kane, Luis Diaz - then we can talk. But as far as I'm aware no such person exists.
Equally, where will that so coveted creative force in midfield come from? What coach in Ireland is capable of teaching those skills to our youngsters?

We have spent many decades now placing most of our emphasis on defending. That's all well on good but games are won (and lost) at the other end of the pitch. It's long past time that we shifted our emphasis to that area of the pitch.

[seanfhear]

I haven't checked this, so it may simply be rose-tinted glasses, but it feels like we were much more dangerous from set-plays under Martin O'Neill. Ironically, many critics mocked O'Neill's apparent attitude to set-plays (which we were told was basically get it into the box for the big lad to head it).
I am always wary when the tactic is for the small fella is to head it from set pieces ! Very discombobulating.

[nigel-harps1954]

That we keep giving up soft goals is a cause for concern. But I suppose to be "concerned" one would have to be hopeful in the first place. And that's quite an ask right now.
The problems with this team can be traced all the way back to the domestic game. It is as it has been for the last 50 years - nonexistent.
When a father in Ireland can send his son to a local coach in a quest to become the next Robbie Keane, Harry Kane, Luis Diaz - then we can talk. But as far as I'm aware no such person exists.
Equally, where will that so coveted creative force in midfield come from? What coach in Ireland is capable of teaching those skills to our youngsters?

We have spent many decades now placing most of our emphasis on defending. That's all well on good but games are won (and lost) at the other end of the pitch. It's long past time that we shifted our emphasis to that area of the pitch.

To be fair, the level of coaching in Ireland is growing rapidly. There's more qualified coaches than ever before.

You'd do well to go out and watch some of the underage leagues. The standard is excellent.

[texidub]

I am always wary when the tactic is for the small fella is to head it from set pieces ! Very discombobulating.

Unless it's Shane Long!

[texidub]

And the U21s and other underage teams do well, so clearly the coaches we have are doing good work. It's a head scratcher how things seem to unravel as the same players get older.

[mark12345]

To be fair, the level of coaching in Ireland is growing rapidly. There's more qualified coaches than ever before.

You'd do well to go out and watch some of the underage leagues. The standard is excellent.

I have heard that coaching is improving in Ireland, Nigel, and that's encouraging (I'm not in a position to watch underage games as I live abroad). But it doesn't decrease the frustration in looking at this current team as they are seriously lacking in the tools needed to win games. Maybe I need to be more patient, but I am a lifelong fan and I have lost virtually all interest in this team (and I know there are many more like me).
Change through proper coaching cannot come fast enough.

[ifk101]

I haven't checked this, so it may simply be rose-tinted glasses, but it feels like we were much more dangerous from set-plays under Martin O'Neill. Ironically, many critics mocked O'Neill's apparent attitude to set-plays (which we were told was basically get it into the box for the big lad to head it).

Maybe because it was the only way we looked like scoring? :-)

Just a quick check, but we scored 17 goals with Barry as assistant, 5 from set plays = approx. 30%. We scored a goal every 64 mins.

With O’Shea as assistant/ interim, 15 goals with 3 from set-plays = 20%. Goal scored every 96 mins.

O’Shea has overall faced stronger opposition but that’s weighed up with a more experienced (better?) squad to call upon
.
Simple comparison for sure, but I think you can see the coaching in our play when Barry was assistant. There was more invention/ thought behind the set-plays, more patterns in our attack play. Not seeing that with O’Shea as assistant/ interim manager/ head “assisting” coach.

There is a commentary put forth post Greece that the players don’t care, which builds on the previous the players aren’t good enough. For me the issue is the coaching. The coaching is not good enough, we are not maximising the ability/ potential of the players available to us. It is possible HH can do this with time but questionable if he is relying on O’Shea to implement his ideas.

[Acornvilla]

O' Neill also had a considerably better team to work with, and I think relative quality/experience of squads is the thing often left out of managerial comparisons.

[texidub]

Thinking of possible morale boost and developing winning habits... How about an 'Iceland'-type tournament at the end of this season, like the one Jack won back in the day? 3 teams battle it out over a week during a friendlies window - based in Dublin as practice for hosting the Euros. Obviously the other teams should be lowly (even lowlier than us), giving us the chance of a confidence boosting win or 2 and the manager an opportunity to try out some different ideas. (Could all end in disaster, of course, but that's sport.)

[Eirambler]

O' Neill also had a considerably better team to work with, and I think relative quality/experience of squads is the thing often left out of managerial comparisons.



Did he though?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_squads

Bear in mind that Shay Given was 40 and Keane and O'Shea were on their last legs as well. Was that squad really that much better than what we have now?

My view is that, while we don't have an outstanding team by any means, we have enough to be doing a lot better than we are. But we've gone down the wrong road in terms of playing style for four years and you can't turn it on and off like a tap. We might or might not now be on the start of a journey back in the right direction, there's nothing else for it right now other than to wait it out and hope things get better over time. We all know the goal here is Euro 2028, not 2026.

[Stuttgart88]

Heimir's latest take, quite interesting.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/2024/09/11/heimir-hallgrimsson-we-need-to-play-better-im-not-hiding-behind-that/

Gavin Cummiskey

Heimir Hallgrímsson: ‘We need to play better. I’m not hiding behind that’
Ireland have lost 11 of their last 14 competitive matches after defeat to Greece

A Greek journalist in the Aviva Stadium on Tuesday night could not believe his ears, turning around and asking incredulously, “Did the announcer just name Will Smallbone as man of the match?”. “Yes, but not really,” we explained. “It’s so the national broadcaster can interview an Irish player on the pitch at full-time. Sure, Chiedozie Ogbene won it against England.” The visiting correspondent had already turned around to inform his colleagues who laughed at the latest, ridiculous occurrence connected to Irish football.

About an hour later, Republic of Ireland manager Heimir Hallgrímsson calmly explained how confidence levels can be rebuilt, following the worst run of senior men’s results since 1971. The Icelander only arrived in Ireland last month. The squad he inherited lost both Nations League games 2-0, to England and Greece, in three days but Hallgrímsson believes the wins will come when the players become more familiar with each other and his “principles”. Anyone watching Ireland play football these past four years could have told him this squad has been together all that time, losing 11 of their last 14 competitive matches. The 2020s are now comparable to 1946-1950, when Ireland lost 12 of 19 internationals. And 1967-1971, when the national team went 21 games without a win, losing 14.

Ancient history lessons go over Hallgrímsson’s head, but he does understand the enormity of the present-day task.

“We can all agree that Ireland doesn’t have a match winner at this stage,” he said. “We don’t have a Zlatan, Messi or Ronaldo or the high-profile players, like Wales had Gareth Bale in the past, such as Roy Keane, playing at the highest level.
“If we want to grow, it has to be collective. From there, players will gain confidence from organisation and structure.

“From defending without the ball, you can feel confident. You can control the game without the ball. Once that happens, we’ll start to get points and we’ll grow in confidence.”
Hallgrímsson continued: “Some players will hopefully be fitter [in October]. We gave Evan [Ferguson] his first minutes of the season. Hopefully that will help Brighton select him more. He will be a huge asset for us when he’s fit.

“I think we saw that Kasey McAteer is one for the future.

“Now our job is to try to find the correct players and just play them, not always rotating them.”

Hallgrímsson’s predecessor, Stephen Kenny, sold a similar line to the public after building a young squad, but his efforts to settle on a regular line-up was denied by repeat injuries to Ferguson, Ogbene and Séamus Coleman at crucial junctures. At least Kenny had the constant midfield presence of Josh Cullen and goalkeeper Gavin Bazunu, who both missed this international window through injury.

Glenn Whelan, who won 91 caps for Ireland and is currently working for the FAI as an opposition analyst, even travelling to Athens for Greece’s 3-0 defeat of Finland on Saturday, swapped his scouting job for television punditry on Tuesday.

“We shot ourselves in the foot,” Whelan told Virgin Media Sport. “Jason Knight gives the ball away and goes chasing after it, makes a mistake, followed by another mistake, which gave the Greeks a chance to press forward.

“The ball at the edge of the box, you only have to look at the amount of Irish players around the ball and no one goes to get tight, [Fotis Ioannidis] gets the shot away and we are 1-0 down.
“The disappointing thing for me, once the goal goes in, I see heads go down, arms thrown up, it is not a positive thing in this Irish team at the moment.”

Whelan suggests another “reset” by dipping into Jim Crawford’s talented under-21 squad, where Sam Curtis and Andy Moran are keeping Ireland on course to qualify for the Euros after victory in Turkey and a 2-2 draw against Latvia in Tallaght on Tuesday.

“If it is a case of looking at the 21s and bringing them lads in to change it, because there are too many lads over the last four years who have consistently lost for Ireland,” said Whelan.
Out with the new, in with the newer has already been done, with Kenny promoting an entire crop of under-21s, including Smallbone, Ferguson and Adam Idah, between 2019 and 2022.

As one FAI official confirmed, systemic problems are hurting the senior men’s team. Due to a €43.2 million debt, the Association cannot help to fund professional coaching in club academies, which is precisely where the FAI’s pathways plan, designed by its chief football officer Marc Canham, is directing elite talent.

This is above Hallgrímsson’s pay grade, as the 57-year-old was only hired on an 18-month contract. The initial job description for the “head coach” to replace Kenny, was a contract running to Euro 2028 with responsibilities to implement a style of play from underage teams into the senior squad. This idea, however, was shelved during a nine-month recruitment process led by Canham.

“I saw improvement from the England game and from what I saw before,” said Hallgrímsson. “Maybe I am being too positive, maybe you disagree, but until the [Ioannidis] goal, I was really happy.
“We need to play better. I’m not hiding behind that.”

[Stuttgart88]

I highlighted the bits I found most telling.

Whelan suggests promoting youth. Funny how he is critical of the goal. For years Whelan was criticed here while some (like me!) used to say he filled space outside our D. We used to never concede the type of goal we concede regularly these days when he was in the side.

It looks like HH will be working on us without the ball. The best example of what he's talking about was when the Swiss played here last. Like sheepdogs herding sheep they moved us around the pitch to where they wanted us - and that was when WE had the ball.

I agree with his concluding remarks.

[texidub]

In fairness, our press w/out the ball was good in the first half against Greece - It's a bare minimum requirement really, but I was relieved to see it, even if I felt sorry for Szmodics who at times was running around a lot like John Aldridge had to back in the day. It rattled the Greeks... for a while anyway.

Not judging HH one way or the other yet, but on the negative side I thought he made too many substitutions (and not necessarily great ones) the other night.

[Eirambler]

I'm not convinced that Whelan is right that promoting more youth players is the way to go here. Ones that are obviously ready should come up of course, but do we have any of those at the moment? Lawal might be the closest if he gets a run at Stoke. At this point calling up someone like Curtis or Moran would do more harm than good I'd say.

If the age of our squad is an issue it's more at the upper end than the youth players. You can basically look at the last 10 years of Irish football through the lack of quality players born 1993-1997. Firstly we had no good young players coming through, this was evident as far back as Euro 2016 and during the McCarthy 2.0 era. Then we had a lopsided squad with loads of young players and loads of older players, but a shortage of players at the peak of their careers, aged 25-29. This was a big issue during the Kenny era. Now we're starting to move on to the next issue, not having the experienced older heads to drive standards on and off the field, avoid mistakes with their experience etc. This could be the story for the next two or three years, or maybe longer.

It's a depressing thought, but we probably won't have a good age mix in our squad again until the likes of O'Shea, Kelleher, Ogbene and Molumby are seen as the older lads steering the ship. But in the meantime we're going to have to make the best of what we have, as adding more youth will just mean adding more inexperience to an already inexperienced squad.

[Acornvilla]

Did he though?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_squads

Bear in mind that Shay Given was 40 and Keane and O'Shea were on their last legs as well. Was that squad really that much better than what we have now?

My view is that, while we don't have an outstanding team by any means, we have enough to be doing a lot better than we are. But we've gone down the wrong road in terms of playing style for four years and you can't turn it on and off like a tap. We might or might not now be on the start of a journey back in the right direction, there's nothing else for it right now other than to wait it out and hope things get better over time. We all know the goal here is Euro 2028, not 2026.

He was manager from 2013 onwards, not just that one summer, but even then yes that 2016 summer squad had a far superior collection of options with lads playing at a decent level above what we have currently on a more consistent basis with far more experience of getting results at club and international level. We probably didn't appreciate some of those individuals for what they were and brought at the time.

pretty much any of our players at the time who were in the championship had played seasons of premier league football, or would go on to like Hendrick/Duffy. We have a bunch of midfielders right now, that we hope can do the same. We don't even have a David Meyler any more, let alone a Wes Hoolahan or Glenn Whelan. Sammy is the one who could be a real gamechanger, but he's very recent and only just hitting new peaks, we hope, Chio too. And they're much further along than they were say, 4 years ago. We've a lot of new younger lads with just PL relegation on their cv's or an inability to gain promotion.

Given wasn't even the keeper, it was Randolph who I personally don't think was as good as Bazunu/Kelleher can be, but he was a far more experienced keeper who had played plenty of games at a high level than they are right now. O' Shea played another 3 seasons after that, he wasn't at his peak, but was he better than the lads now? I'd say yes.

We had left backs, and right backs, multiple options, lads like Brady/Coleman/McClean/Ward in their prime. We've not seen the best of Coleman since his Wales injury unfortunately, it's such a pity it happened to him when he probably deserved a bigger club move.

Walters/Long have had far better careers than any of our current strikers. Evan is the big hope, but he's rarely been fit for any manager and still incredibly early in his career. Having someone like Keane as an option even past his peak is a world away from now. At the time I thought he should have been dropped, same with Given, but I think the experience of people like that now, wouldn't hurt, it's why I assume we persisted with keeping McClean around and keep trying to keep Coleman involved too even thou he can't seem to stay fit any more. We have so many potentially great forwards, but they need to play more, they need to score more, they need to stay fit and built good club careers.

The squad was far more balanced and filled with experience, with players playing at more successful clubs right throughout the team. It wasn't particularly exciting but the overall base ability and club career status of the squad was a level above bar a few exceptions. I would say the only place we're marginally stronger now is CB and Keeper, but the defense has not been carrying us by any means, they're still all potential until they actually start doing something with that tallent imo.

I think a lot of the current young players have huge potential, but they've not realized it yet, there's a lot of unrealistic expectations among the fanbase imo, and there has been for years. We constantly take for granted that guys at middling and lower premier league clubs are better than guys playing European competition and in different leagues, just because there's more money in the UK doesn't mean all the best players are willing to go there and play to win nothing and live in perpetual rain :D .

I think HH will find some marginal gains, but we will probably still end up in league C and that's where the rebuild can begin anew, hopefully some of that potential will finally be more than just that.

[brine3]

Did he though?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2016_squads

Bear in mind that Shay Given was 40 and Keane and O'Shea were on their last legs as well. Was that squad really that much better than what we have now?

My view is that, while we don't have an outstanding team by any means, we have enough to be doing a lot better than we are. But we've gone down the wrong road in terms of playing style for four years and you can't turn it on and off like a tap. We might or might not now be on the start of a journey back in the right direction, there's nothing else for it right now other than to wait it out and hope things get better over time. We all know the goal here is Euro 2028, not 2026.

Given shouldn't have been in the squad. Forde should have been there. Robbie Keane was also a passenger.

[Stuttgart88]

we probably won't have a good age mix in our squad again until the likes of O'Shea, Kelleher, Ogbene and Molumby are seen as the older lads steering the ship. But in the meantime we're going to have to make the best of what we have, as adding more youth will just mean adding more inexperience to an already inexperienced squad.Wales have never been afraid to trust youth. Bellamy did again this week I think. Maybe it can be done selectively.

[Stuttgart88]

He was manager from 2013 onwards, not just that one summer, but even then yes that 2016 summer squad had a far superior collection of options with lads playing at a decent level above what we have currently on a more consistent basis with far more experience of getting results at club and international level. We probably didn't appreciate some of those individuals for what they were and brought at the time.

pretty much any of our players at the time who were in the championship had played seasons of premier league football, or would go on to like Hendrick/Duffy. We have a bunch of midfielders right now, that we hope can do the same. We don't even have a David Meyler any more, let alone a Wes Hoolahan or Glenn Whelan. Sammy is the one who could be a real gamechanger, but he's very recent and only just hitting new peaks, we hope, Chio too. And they're much further along than they were say, 4 years ago. We've a lot of new younger lads with just PL relegation on their cv's or an inability to gain promotion.

Given wasn't even the keeper, it was Randolph who I personally don't think was as good as Bazunu/Kelleher can be, but he was a far more experienced keeper who had played plenty of games at a high level than they are right now. O' Shea played another 3 seasons after that, he wasn't at his peak, but was he better than the lads now? I'd say yes.

We had left backs, and right backs, multiple options, lads like Brady/Coleman/McClean/Ward in their prime. We've not seen the best of Coleman since his Wales injury unfortunately, it's such a pity it happened to him when he probably deserved a bigger club move.

Walters/Long have had far better careers than any of our current strikers. Evan is the big hope, but he's rarely been fit for any manager and still incredibly early in his career. Having someone like Keane as an option even past his peak is a world away from now. At the time I thought he should have been dropped, same with Given, but I think the experience of people like that now, wouldn't hurt, it's why I assume we persisted with keeping McClean around and keep trying to keep Coleman involved too even thou he can't seem to stay fit any more. We have so many potentially great forwards, but they need to play more, they need to score more, they need to stay fit and built good club careers.

The squad was far more balanced and filled with experience, with players playing at more successful clubs right throughout the team. It wasn't particularly exciting but the overall base ability and club career status of the squad was a level above bar a few exceptions. I would say the only place we're marginally stronger now is CB and Keeper, but the defense has not been carrying us by any means, they're still all potential until they actually start doing something with that tallent imo.

I think a lot of the current young players have huge potential, but they've not realized it yet, there's a lot of unrealistic expectations among the fanbase imo, and there has been for years. We constantly take for granted that guys at middling and lower premier league clubs are better than guys playing European competition and in different leagues, just because there's more money in the UK doesn't mean all the best players are willing to go there and play to win nothing and live in perpetual rain :D .

I think HH will find some marginal gains, but we will probably still end up in league C and that's where the rebuild can begin anew, hopefully some of that potential will finally be more than just that.
When we had Walters, Long, Meyler, McClean, Ward, Whelan etc. everyone was saying "we just don't have the players"! But that almost seems like a golden generation now!

[pineapple stu]

We've never been afraid to trust youth either in fairness. Look at how many players Kenny brought through. Some are bedded in to the squad now, some aren't. Some are in a half-way house - still in the squads and we'd rather there were better players available if we're honest.

I think any suggestions we add more youth to the squad to revitalise it should address why that hasn't worked in the past 3/4 years and why it should be any different now.