Olympics 2024

[Crosby87]

How excited is everyone?
Who do we like in break dancing?

[John83]

I've never been less aware an Olympics is on. The only things I've heard relating to it are the drama over the alleged Last Supper parody, the motivation behind that high speed rail disruption, and the mayor swimming in the Seine to prove that it's not polluted enough to stop things. It is, however, too polluted to practice in.

Anything of interest happen so far in the actual sport?

[SkStu]

Um...the Canadian womens soccer team was docked 6 points and fined for spying with a drone on the New Zealand training camp. They're on zero points after 2 wins, including a 12th minute of injury time winner against France last night. Does that count?

Chance of a medal for us tonight in the swimming with Mona McSharry. Outside chance of two in the swimming tonight actually. Wiffen goes tomorrow night. Canoeist in the final of the slalom with 2nd best run in the semis. Boxers had a crap start.

[pineapple stu]

Pfft - 12th minute of injury time? Hold my beer (https://supersport.com/olympic%20games/olympics-football/news/9a79948a-878b-4866-9a11-7e923305f911/chaos-crowd-trouble-as-morocco-beat-argentina-in-men-s-olympic-football-opener)...


Argentina thought they had escaped from the Group B match in Saint-Etienne with a 2-2 draw when Cristian Medina scored in the 16th minute of added time.

But as their players celebrated, projectiles including bottles and plastic cups rained down from the stands and several spectators entered the pitch, with the referee promptly blowing the whistle.

The teams left the playing area, but the referee had not blown for fulltime and the outcome of the match was completely unclear until the sides finally reappeared two hours later to play out three more minutes in a stadium that was by now emptied of spectators.

Medina's goal was eventually disallowed for offside following a VAR review, and Morocco held on to claim all three points.

[seanfhear]

Seems to be a French shambles so far anyway.

[samhaydenjr]

Thought I'd bring over a post I put in another thread with my thoughts on our medal hopefuls. Terrific medal for Mona McSharry, touching a fingernail ahead of fourth AND fifth. Wiffen in Swimming and McClenaghan on the Pommel Horse looking good. Poor start for the boxers (did Aidan Walsh even throw five punches?) but Marley and Harrington have steadied the ship. Rowers have started well. Men's rugby sevens team went out in very Irish rugby style - just when you start to believe they might beat NZ and Fiji, they miss an opportunity to seal it and give up a couple of quick scores. I didn't mention sailing because i have no idea of our chances, but our Skiff boat is in second halfway through (although that can change with a couple of bad races - fingers crossed, though). With McScharry's medal, six-ten is definitely on


Well, things definitely look much brighter than they did when you posted in 2004, Ramondo - for starters, as of now, we have 122 qualified athletes, compared to 46 in '04. And there are more medal hopefuls - so many, in fact, that it will be somewhat disappointing if we don't top our haul from 2012. I've grouped them into three rough categories: serious medal contenders, who would be disappointed not to win a medal in a given event; those with a fair chance, where a medal is a distinct possibility but you couldn't quite say it's expected; outside chances, where we could get a medal if the relevant athlete/team plays out of their skins and/or some of their competitors underperform. So here is that list, as I see it:

Serious medal candidates:
1. Daniel Wiffenx2 - Swimming - 800m and 1500m freestyle - World Champion in both, World Record holder over 800m short-course, triple European Champion in short-course. Caveat for Wiffen - in the 2023 Worlds, he came fourth behind three swimmers who are about his age - two of them did not compete against him in 2024.
2. Rhasidat Adeleke - Athletics - 400m - her rise to the top has been stunning - she is already a superstar, with three European medals under her belt aged 21. Her PB of 49.07 would have won a medal at pretty much any Worlds, Olympics or Europeans. Caveat - Natalia Kaczmarek's stunning run to beat Rhasidat in the Euros means there's now four women in the field who have run sub-49 seconds
3. Rhys McClenaghan - Gymnastics - Pommel Horse - double World Champion, triple European Champion - undoubtedly the man to beat in his discipline. Caveat - underperformed in two major championships, including the last Olympics
4. Fintan McCarthy and Paul O'Donovan - Rowing - Lightweight Double Sculls - as a pair, Olympic Champions, double World Champions, Triple World Champions - made the German boat look like plucky underdogs happy to win silver in Tokyo.
5. Kellie Harrington - Boxing - Women's Lightweight - World, Olympic and European Champion - I thought she fought better in her final than Katie Taylor in 2012

Fair Chance at a medal:
1. Mixed 4x400m relay - Athletics - European Champions, bronze at the World Relays - an amazing few months has put them really in the mix - I'm almost tempted to upgrade them to Serious contenders. Caveat - if Rhasidat's coach decides she should focus on the individual 400m (had she broken 11 seconds in the 100 at the National CHampionships today, that would have created a scheduling clash)
2. Ciara Mageean - Athletics - 1500m - European Gold in 2024, silver in 2022, fourth in Tokyo. Also close to being a serious contender, but with Faith Kipyegon almost a lock for the gold, that leaves her competing with a number of other talented runners for the minor medals
3. The Golfers - any of the four could win a medal, but given the nature of golf, I wouldn't expect a medal from any of them, not even Rory. He does have as good a chance as anyone else in the field and a better chance than most.
4. Men's Rugby Sevens - third in the 2022 Sevens World Cup, second in the 2023-24 Sevens Series, coming second or third in four of the seven tournaments. However, they didn't win any and never seemed to top their group
5. Rowing - we've been picking up medals in rowing at Worlds, Europeans and Olympics, even when Paul O'Donovan isn't in the boat, so there's definitely a fair chance of a second medal in rowing.
6. Boxing x 2 - Apart from Harrington, six of our boxers have won medals at major championships

Outside Chance:
1. Women's 4x400m relay - Athletics - European Silver Medalists but with the Americans and Jamaicans also to compete, they may have to go up another level to claim hardware
2. Sarah Healy - Athletics - 1500m - stellar underage, hasn't quite translated it into senior success yet, but has started reaching major finals - you never know
3. Boxing x 2 more - if they have a really great meet
4. Rowing - a third medal if they have a really great regatta
5. Lara Gillespie - Track Cycling - Omnium/Madison - multiple medals at underage championships. Came fourth in the Omnium and sixth in the Madison at this year's senior Europeans, competing against much more experienced riders. This year may be too soon but you never know.
6. Equestrian - have disappointed on a number of occasions but capable of winning medals if they can keep the horses off drugs and get them to dance better (but why is Bertram Allen omitted again?)
7. Women's Rugby Sevens - seventh in the World Series, but did win one tournament - would need to produce at least two upsets to medal, but that's possible
8. Mona MacSharry - Swimming - Olympic finalist, multiple medal winner at major short-course and underage Championships - would need to up her game but not impossible
9. Ellen Walshe - Swimming - similar to MacSharry, but not as many medals and not yet an Olympic finalist
10. Jack Woolley - desparately unlucky to be beaten by a semi-finalist in 2021 - has since won two European medals
11. A second golfing medal - Rory plus one of the others

So, in total, I make that six medals where we have a serious contender, seven where he have a fair chance, and twelve where there's an outside chance. So if everything went our way, we could be looking at 25 medals, although 6-10 is a more realistic goal, which would still be fantastic.

[pineapple stu]

We get to claim Charlie Haughey's grand-niece's bronze medal in the race straight after McSharry, yeah?

[SkStu]

Thought I'd bring over a post I put in another thread with my thoughts on our medal hopefuls. Terrific medal for Mona McSharry, touching a fingernail ahead of fourth AND fifth. Wiffen in Swimming and McClenaghan on the Pommel Horse looking good. Poor start for the boxers (did Aidan Walsh even throw five punches?) but Marley and Harrington have steadied the ship. Rowers have started well. Men's rugby sevens team went out in very Irish rugby style - just when you start to believe they might beat NZ and Fiji, they miss an opportunity to seal it and give up a couple of quick scores. I didn't mention sailing because i have no idea of our chances, but our Skiff boat is in second halfway through (although that can change with a couple of bad races - fingers crossed, though). With McScharry's medal, six-ten is definitely on

Great post. Sailing skiffs - might be another outside bet given how Dickson and Waddilove are doing so far. Would be another +1 on your range.

[samhaydenjr]

Great post. Sailing skiffs - might be another outside bet given how Dickson and Waddilove are doing so far. Would be another +1 on your range.

Yeah they're still holding in second, even though the third day wasn't as good. Would have been significantly clear of third and fourth if they hadn't been disqualified from the sixth race after a protest from the Spanish. Need a good day to keep them in a good position in advance of the medal race..

Meanwhile... Daniel Wiffen!!! What a performance!!! I raised a caveat about those who beat him in the 2023 Worlds and he raised his game, leaving them all trailing in his wake. I think we can say he is officially the best 800m swimmer in the world right now.

What a turnaround for Irish swimming - I remember watching as a kid and the Irish swimmers would come second-last in the slowest heat but still smash the national record as it would be their second time competing in a 50m pool. Now we have two medal winners (placing us sixth in the medal table for now), a third finalist and a fourth semi-finalist

[SkStu]

Yeah, have high hopes for the sailors. Watched the Rte olympics blog tonight and Annalise Murphy gave some great insights. A couple of other outside chances of medals in other sailing events with Finn Lynch and Eve McMahon who she’s tipping to be a superstar though this Olympics might be a little early for her.

Regarding Wiffen, I didn’t watch it live but that was - I think - one of the most assured and confident performances that I have ever seen from an Irish sportsperson at an elite level. Incredible swim and, in my opinion, never looked in doubt.

[pineapple stu]

I can't remember the last time an Irish athlete set an Olympic record. Any takers on that one?

Even Michelle Smith was a good way off as I recall

[nigel-harps1954]

I can't remember the last time an Irish athlete set an Olympic record. Any takers on that one?

Even Michelle Smith was a good way off as I recall

Rowers? Fintan McCarthy and Paul O'Donovan set a record there last olympics, if I remember correctly?

[SkStu]

Another medal won today, colour not yet decided though with Harrington making the semis.

[seanfhear]

I see that Kellie Harrington has said that she will Not fight a biological male if she comes up against one at the Olympics.

Kellie Harrington = = Great Woman.

There is No way that biological males should be allowed to fight Women.

[Crosby87]

There is No way that biological males should be allowed to fight Women.

Yes. Absolutely Bat Sh**.

[seanfhear]

Yes. Absolutely Bat Sh**.
I assume nearly everyone on this site has played sport ~ ~ There is no way a Woman can compete against Men in physical sports.

Biology and Science.

[samhaydenjr]

I see that Kellie Harrington has said that she will Not fight a biological male if she comes up against one at the Olympics.

Kellie Harrington = = Great Woman.

There is No way that biological males should be allowed to fight Women.


Yes. Absolutely Bat Sh**.


I assume nearly everyone on this site has played sport ~ ~ There is no way a Woman can compete against Men in physical sports.

Biology and Science.

I'm sorry, has there been a major push to include transgender competitors in women's boxing that I've missed? If not, then this is just a strawman argument and I'm disappointed in Kellie Harrington that she would say that without any vaguely realistic prospect if it happening (second time TBH, after her retweet of the National Front a while back). Still hope she wins because on so many other levels, she is an inspiration.

[seanfhear]

I'm sorry, has there been a major push to include transgender competitors in women's boxing that I've missed? If not, then this is just a strawman argument and I'm disappointed in Kellie Harrington that she would say that without any vaguely realistic prospect if it happening (second time TBH, after her retweet of the National Front a while back). Still hope she wins because on so many other levels, she is an inspiration.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/boxers-olympics-imane-khelif-lin-yu-ting-gender-eligibility-rcna164257

The information is out there ~ People just need to keep themselves informed.

[seanfhear]

How is this sort of travesty allowed ~ Crazy.

https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/1818964008071778621

[nigel-harps1954]

It's a grey area, they aren't biological men, they are born women, but have had raised testosterone levels, which saw them disqualified before, which was clarified after initial reports said "gender testing".

[NeverFeltBetter]

RTE has a good summation of the whole thing: https://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/2024/0731/1462837-explained-the-gender-controversy-miring-womens-olympic-boxing/

All very strange. Two boxers concerned deny claims but didn't appeal the initial IBA ruling, the IBA no comments when asked to provide additional details of the ruling everyone is basing it all off of. IOC is insisting, over-and-over again today after unpleasant scenes involving one of the two and what seems like an opponent walkout that there is no "transgender issue" involved.

[SkStu]

What i find quite interesting is how quickly people pile on dopers (usually correctly) when they achieve something that looks suspicious. Usually people use the reactions of the accuseds fellow athletes in those moments to confirm their assumption of guilt. On the other hand, a lot of those same people will not acknowledge the reactions of these boxers' fellow competitors in those moments - quitting the bout, crying, making statements - to question how fair the situation really is. These particular women have trained their whole lives for these moments to shine at that level and it is not right that individuals with XY are allowed to ruin it for them. Instead "transphobia" and other stuff is thrown about all too quickly. That is a double standard. I see it in the usual quarters.

[seanfhear]

What i find quite interesting is how quickly people pile on dopers (usually correctly) when they achieve something that looks suspicious. Usually people use the reactions of the accuseds fellow athletes in those moments to confirm their assumption of guilt. On the other hand, a lot of those same people will not acknowledge the reactions of these boxers' fellow competitors in those moments - quitting the bout, crying, making statements - to question how fair the situation really is. These particular women have trained their whole lives for these moments to shine at that level and it is not right that individuals with XY are allowed to ruin it for them. Instead "transphobia" and other stuff is thrown about all too quickly. That is a double standard. I see it in the usual quarters.Men-Doping in Women's sports has to stop.

[samhaydenjr]

What i find quite interesting is how quickly people pile on dopers (usually correctly) when they achieve something that looks suspicious. Usually people use the reactions of the accuseds fellow athletes in those moments to confirm their assumption of guilt. On the other hand, a lot of those same people will not acknowledge the reactions of these boxers' fellow competitors in those moments - quitting the bout, crying, making statements - to question how fair the situation really is. These particular women have trained their whole lives for these moments to shine at that level and it is not right that individuals with XY are allowed to ruin it for them. Instead "transphobia" and other stuff is thrown about all too quickly. That is a double standard. I see it in the usual quarters.

It's not a double standard - dopers are cheats who use underhand and surreptitious methods to get an artificial advantage they would not have naturally. These two competitors presented themselves as biological women to a sport which does have eligibility criteria surrounding gender and were accepted as female competitors for years until a Putin crony at a historically corrupt governing body decided otherwise - and while proof of doping is always presented, the IBA did not provide proof of its "findings". So unless some proper evidence is presented that the two women deceived the governing bodies about their biological sex, then to compare them to dope cheats is actually highly unfair (BTW this discussion started with Seanfhear saying that Kellie Harrington had stated she would refuse to box against a biological male - well it appears that she considers Imane Khelif a biological female, as she boxed against her at the last Olympics... and beat her comfortably)

[SkStu]

It is a double standard. Both are unfair advantages. One is unacceptable, the other seems to be acceptable. Double standard.

[culloty82]

It's not a double standard - dopers are cheats who use underhand and surreptitious methods to get an artificial advantage they would not have naturally. These two competitors presented themselves as biological women to a sport which does have eligibility criteria surrounding gender and were accepted as female competitors for years until a Putin crony at a historically corrupt governing body decided otherwise - and while proof of doping is always presented, the IBA did not provide proof of its "findings". So unless some proper evidence is presented that the two women deceived the governing bodies about their biological sex, then to compare them to dope cheats is actually highly unfair (BTW this discussion started with Seanfhear saying that Kellie Harrington had stated she would refuse to box against a biological male - well it appears that she considers Imane Khelif a biological female, as she boxed against her at the last Olympics... and beat her comfortably)

As did Amy Broadhurst, so for all the controversy whipped up so far, the boxers in question haven't won any major titles in their international careers to date.

[pineapple stu]

How many titles boxers win is pretty irrelevant when it comes to biological males going up against biological females. I don't know why people think this sort of stuff is ok so long as the males don't win anything.

Sharron Davies (who has been doing sterling work highlighting the idiocy of the groupthink trans ideology in sport) has been discussing this on Twitter, and says the two were previously banned by the IBA because they had XY chromosomes - that is, they were male.

1819314349497831859

I think general corruption in Olympic boxing (such as the vote in the Daina Moorhouse fight yesterday) has seen the IOC take over the running of boxing in the Olympics, and they copied the rules across but seem to have missed an update on gender ID, which is how these fighters have gotten let back in again. (Open to correction on all that)

BTW - the comments attributed to Harrington here appear not to have been made?

[samhaydenjr]

How many titles boxers win is pretty irrelevant when it comes to biological males going up against biological females. I don't know why people think this sort of stuff is ok so long as the males don't win anything.

Sharron Davies (who has been doing sterling work highlighting the idiocy of the groupthink trans ideology in sport) has been discussing this on Twitter, and says the two were previously banned by the IBA because they had XY chromosomes - that is, they were male.

1819314349497831859

I think general corruption in Olympic boxing (such as the vote in the Daina Moorhouse fight yesterday) has seen the IOC take over the running of boxing in the Olympics, and they copied the rules across but seem to have missed an update on gender ID, which is how these fighters have gotten let back in again. (Open to correction on all that)

BTW - the comments attributed to Harrington here appear not to have been made?

Then I withdraw my earlier expression of disappointment and wonder why Seanfhear falsely attributed this comment to her and, out of the blue, used it as a starting point to kick off this debate and insult a young woman who, so far as we actually know, has done nothing wrong.

[pineapple stu]

It may be the case the IOC have done wrong rather than the athletes themselves. Reading between the lines here - in particular, the IOC's insistence that this isn't a transgender issue - it seems the case may be closer to that of Caster Semenya, who was banned from women's athletics after being shown to be a biological male (ie having XY chromosomes, and as a result having gone through male puberty, which confers huge advantages). That was really unfortunate for Semenya, but ultimately it was the right decision.

The IOC (in the RTÉ article NeverFeltBetter linked) are quoted as saying "Everyone competing in the women's category is complying with the competition eligibility rules. They are women in their passports and it is stated that is the case" - that's clearly a nonsense eligibility criterion. The rules have changed since 2016 ("They are eligible by the rules of the federation, which was set in 2016" - same article) to account for transgender people getting their passports changed and competing in female events - and rightly so. That's clearly idiotic. And indeed, I think they also took cases like Semenya was banned in 2018. But the IOC, in taking over from the IBA, have gone back to those rules, which is why these two boxers are now eligible again, despite their ban last year.

It's a tricky one to comment on as there's a lot of disinformation and part information. Harrington's quote for example seems made up. I see it's been said there's no indication these two have XY chromosomes, but that's not the same as saying they don't have XY chromosomes (and therefore are male). Sharron Davies on Twitter (who, along with JK Rowling, has done superb work in exposing the trans ideology for the dangerous nonsense it is) seems adamant these guys have twice been tested and shown to be XY; I think one was the 2023 test, but the detailed results were never published; just the outcome. I've heard it said both athletes were really banned for beating Russian boxers in the World Boxing Championships (run by the IBA, which was really run by Russia), but that's not true. Khelif did beat a Russian, but Lin didn't.

And then there's an article in the Telegraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/08/01/angela-carini-imane-khelif-italian-boxer-punched/) which makes the argument "Someone with a DSD [ie similar to the Semenya case] cannot help the way they were born but they can choose not to cheat; they can choose not to take medals from women; they can choose not to cause injury" - if these two boxers know they are XY, then arguably they have done wrong by continuing to enter women's competitions knowing they're not women.

[EalingGreen]

Whatever else, this is NOT a Trans issue, so people like JK Rowling, with neither sporting nor scientific expertise, should butt out of the debate and leave it to those who do.

Beyond that, I can sympathise both with the boxers who have to face this pair; but also for the pair themselves, who were registered as female when born, brought up as such and were considered female when they took up the sport.

As for saying that they are "male", that is as misleading as saying they are "female", arguably more so, since they were at least born with external female sex organs. (It is possible to be so and also have internal male organs.)

Which is not to say that these boxers should be entitled to compete: on balance I would say probably not, due to the physical danger from a contact sport. But either way, none of us is qualified to be so dogmatic, at least until more information is known, and certainly not if/when imposing pre-existing prejudices to this incredibly complex and difficult situation.