Weekend 31st MAy to 3rd of June

[Jack B]

Honestly there are some excuses for Kenny there but this is still a Pat's team with Joe Redmond, Chris Forrester & Lennon very good LOI players then the likes of Turner, Conor Keely, Brandon Kavanagh, Cian Leavy, Jake Mulraney, Ruairi Keating and Mason Melia as either solid LOI starters or players with good potential to grow having shown something already. Plenty of managers would bite your hand off for a couple of those players in their squad. Sure the squad is a bit unbalanced but so are a lot of other LOI squads. Bohs also had 1 LB and 3 rb's untill the very recent signing of Jake Carroll. There's stuff like this all around the league.

Sure, but Bohs have also performed relatively poorly as a consequence and fans have been extremely critical of how they prepared for the season, resulting in Devine being sacked and huge question marks around Fenlon. That isn't making excuses for Reynolds (who has one win in seven i believe?), there's just wider context for the season and the situation he's come into.

Have no previous affinity for Kenny nor want to be seen to give him a pass or anything like that, but even compared to most Pats fans I speak to I just have a dimmer view of the squad. Between players having to be shoe-horned into positions to a general lack of natural athleticism/physicality that makes us easily bullied I don't think we can or have put out an eleven this season that makes me any way confident, outside of the initial, possibly blind optimism we all can have at the start of the season. Kenny thus far has been far from an immediate success but I didn't have that expectation for him to be.

[Another Bohemia]

Sure, but Bohs have also performed relatively poorly as a consequence and fans have been extremely critical of how they prepared for the season, resulting in Devine being sacked and huge question marks around Fenlon. That isn't making excuses for Reynolds (who has one win in seven i believe?), there's just wider context for the season and the situation he's come into.

Have no previous affinity for Kenny nor want to be seen to give him a pass or anything like that, but even compared to most Pats fans I speak to I just have a dimmer view of the squad. Between players having to be shoe-horned into positions to a general lack of natural athleticism/physicality that makes us easily bullied I don't think we can or have put out an eleven this season that makes me any way confident, outside of the initial, possibly blind optimism we all can have at the start of the season. Kenny thus far has been far from an immediate success but I didn't have that expectation for him to be.

Agreed that Bohs are still relatively poor but there was at least an uplift after the sacking of the previous manager. The opposite appears to be happening for Pat's. The squad problems at Bohs were/are also much more pronounced than the apparent problems at Pat's. You have to remember Bohs signed 3 of their preferred starting back 4 after the first game of the season one of whom is likely leaving soon as their loan expires.

From the outside looking in at Pat's they have better bones of a squad than Bohs, Dundalk, Drogheda Galway & Waterford. The argument is there to be made that they have better bones than Shels! As a result I suppose I, and others, expected to see a quicker turnaround in fortunes for Pat's when Kenny came in. Or even just more than 1 win at this stage. It will more than likely balance once you get a more settled selection and Kenny knows the players a bit better but I would be frustrated as a Pat's fan with the current results.

[brendy_éire]

Derry City seem to be to the only team Waterford can't compete with this season. 2 3-0 defeats in Derry and a 2-0 defeaqt at the RSC.

Waterford are the worst team we've played this year, by a distance. Given their great run of form, it's a strange one.
Again last night, horrendous defending. Could forgive the first, but Connolly being left unmarked in the six yard box for the second, and lazy play allowing a simple pass to Hoban for the third were awful.
Game was over at that point, with only half an hour played.

Paul McLaughlin was reffing, and bottled a couple of seconds yellow card decisions. Power should have went for kicking the ball away, and McDonald for a high tackle.

Main talking point of the second half was Arubi's push on Patrick McEleney, who has ended up with arm. He was great last night, but has been so unlucky with injuries. Presume that's him out for a couple of months at least.

[kksaints]

Honestly there are some excuses for Kenny there but this is still a Pat's team with Joe Redmond, Chris Forrester & Lennon very good LOI players then the likes of Turner, Conor Keely, Brandon Kavanagh, Cian Leavy, Jake Mulraney, Ruairi Keating and Mason Melia as either solid LOI starters or players with good potential to grow having shown something already. Plenty of managers would bite your hand off for a couple of those players in their squad. Sure the squad is a bit unbalanced but so are a lot of other LOI squads. Bohs also had 1 LB and 3 rb's untill the very recent signing of Jake Carroll. There's stuff like this all around the league.

Of all the players you've listed there all of them bar Melia and to a lesser extent Turner are all underperforming to an extent this season. Forrester and Leavy have been really poor in particular compared to last season. Forrester slows the play down far too much and is overdoing the highly ambitious passing this season. Leavy bar his assist for the goal against Galway on Friday never releasesthe ball at the right time, he's great at dribbling with the ball but there's no emd product.
Lennon is overrated somewhat imo, for a holding midfielder his positioning is all over the place compared to the likes of a McCormack or Coyle. He looked fairly leggy yesterday and the mid season break can't come quickly enough for him. Kavanagh is good from setpieces which is why he has a large number of assists but he's poor from open player and he's a hard player to figure out what his best position is because he lacks pace for a winger but lacks physicality for an attacking midfield role. Mulraney is hugely inconsistent, some times he's excellent other times he's a liability. Keating and Keeley just look average LOI players this season. Keeley doesn't look suited to a passing game. Keating struggles at holding the ball up which was a big issue when Daly was manager.
In Keating's defence and Mulraney and Redmonds too, I think they've all come back too quickly from injuries this season. All of them have gone off with knocks this season in the 1st half of matches and have been back a lot quicker than expected. Redmond in particular was back way quicker than expected. Redmond hasn't been as dominant as he was in 2022, I think that nasty injury he picked up last season has hampered him somewhat.

[Another Bohemia]

Of all the players you've listed there all of them bar Melia and to a lesser extent Turner are all underperforming to an extent this season. Forrester and Leavy have been really poor in particular compared to last season. Forrester slows the play down far too much and is overdoing the highly ambitious passing this season. Leavy bar his assist for the goal against Galway on Friday never releasesthe ball at the right time, he's great at dribbling with the ball but there's no emd product.
Lennon is overrated somewhat imo, for a holding midfielder his positioning is all over the place compared to the likes of a McCormack or Coyle. He looked fairly leggy yesterday and the mid season break can't come quickly enough for him. Kavanagh is good from setpieces which is why he has a large number of assists but he's poor from open player and he's a hard player to figure out what his best position is because he lacks pace for a winger but lacks physicality for an attacking midfield role. Mulraney is hugely inconsistent, some times he's excellent other times he's a liability. Keating and Keeley just look average LOI players this season. Keeley doesn't look suited to a passing game. Keating struggles at holding the ball up which was a big issue when Daly was manager.
In Keating's defence and Mulraney and Redmonds too, I think they've all come back too quickly from injuries this season. All of them have gone off with knocks this season in the 1st half of matches and have been back a lot quicker than expected. Redmond in particular was back way quicker than expected. Redmond hasn't been as dominant as he was in 2022, I think that nasty injury he picked up last season has hampered him somewhat.

This is all really interesting and you'll obviously know a lot more of the specifics than I will. From my point of view you would expect Kenny to be making some changes to address these issues? If Forrester is as poor as you're saying this season why isn't Kenny dropping him? He's probably one of the few managers with a reputation big enough that most people would support any change he makes. Similarly you would expect him to be a positive influence on players and getting them more consistent, maybe that's just a timing thing and will turn around sooner rather than later. If Kavanagh is as good from set pieces as your saying I think he needs to start for you more often than not. I have a similar feeling towards Rooney for Bohs. I really struggle to see what he brings when the ball is in play because he's not the fastest, strongest or most skillful player but he is deadly from a dead ball and if you give him the space to whip something in from open play then there's going to be chaos in the box. Even if he stands perfectly still the rest of the time he's a good addition to the team

[Kiki Balboa]

I am enjoying this panic around St. Pats, but doubt it will last too long.

Still too big of a gap between them and relegation. A win on Friday against Drogheda , and Dundalk losing vs Shels, suddenly it looks grand again.

Dundalk have left a lot of points behind this year. Hopefully the luck is turning, but you never know. Easy for things to spiral, especially when you don't score goals.

Hard to see anyone else spiral for us to catch them. I thought Bohs or Sligo might, but they are capable of picking up points consistently. Again, feels like their is too big of a gap for us to catch.

Drogheda seem to be in a bad place. Heard of tension in the dressing room with the manager blaming the players a lot.

[kksaints]

This is all really interesting and you'll obviously know a lot more of the specifics than I will. From my point of view you would expect Kenny to be making some changes to address these issues? If Forrester is as poor as you're saying this season why isn't Kenny dropping him? He's probably one of the few managers with a reputation big enough that most people would support any change he makes. Similarly you would expect him to be a positive influence on players and getting them more consistent, maybe that's just a timing thing and will turn around sooner rather than later. If Kavanagh is as good from set pieces as your saying I think he needs to start for you more often than not. I have a similar feeling towards Rooney for Bohs. I really struggle to see what he brings when the ball is in play because he's not the fastest, strongest or most skillful player but he is deadly from a dead ball and if you give him the space to whip something in from open play then there's going to be chaos in the box. Even if he stands perfectly still the rest of the time he's a good addition to the team

Forrester was dropped for at least one match, possibly two by Daly but in the one I can remember against Waterford we improved considerably once he came off the bench. It's a tricky one because we all know what he's capable of and his replacement if we dropped him would be Aaron Bolger who'd probably give us more pressing but is much more inferior on the ball. Bolger did reasonably well for the most part when he played so I'm slightly surprised Kenny hasn't used him more particularly in the double header weekends.
The problem with Kavanagh is that he's awful when we don't have possession and that's a big liability when he's on the wing. If you play him as an attacking midfielder behind the striker he's rarely close enough to support the striker and you can't press high because he lacks the physicality to do it. Another slight issue with starting him just for his setpieces is that we have Mulraney (although his were dreadful yesterday), Forrester (2nd goal yesterday came from his corner) Lennon and McClelland (although he's a bit part player at this stage) who can all hit good setpieces.

[outspoken]

Great win for Dundalk. Really, we had more and higher quality chances in the second half to win it by more than Pats did to equalize. We always had a good defense, but were creating nothing. Hopefully with Daly, this is being fixed. Should have beaten Derry on Friday night too.

Frustrated with the pen. If that is a pen, why isnt it a pen for a handball up the other end, when the ball came off the Pats players elbow and went out (mysteriously given for a goal kick)?

Also, shocked by how Pats centric Virgin medias coverage was. The commentary team really only saw things from the Pats perspective. A little bit nit-picky, and I know LOI TV is like that, but this is one of the worst I have seen this year and thought it would have been different because it was on Virgin.

I feel a bit bad for Mason Melia, despite what the comms were saying, he was awful and has lot to learn anytime I have seen him play. Some pitiful dives from him too. Forrester had a strange game too. Loved asking for miracles from his teammates with his passing.

I know its early doors in St Pats, but it is an interesting time in Kennys career. Throwing on a heap of attacking players that early (around the 70min), and losing some shape, looks like a manager that does not have faith in his squad anyways.

Agree on VM coverage, it's class but they've gone the sky sports route of getting personalities associated with clubs on instead of decent pundits. After they were beaten by Shels on VM a few weeks ago, Eoin Doyle said after the game how proud he was of the Pats performance???? Aside from the fact Pats were absolutely ****e, wtf is that about?

[Jack B]

This is all really interesting and you'll obviously know a lot more of the specifics than I will. From my point of view you would expect Kenny to be making some changes to address these issues? If Forrester is as poor as you're saying this season why isn't Kenny dropping him? He's probably one of the few managers with a reputation big enough that most people would support any change he makes. Similarly you would expect him to be a positive influence on players and getting them more consistent, maybe that's just a timing thing and will turn around sooner rather than later. If Kavanagh is as good from set pieces as your saying I think he needs to start for you more often than not. I have a similar feeling towards Rooney for Bohs. I really struggle to see what he brings when the ball is in play because he's not the fastest, strongest or most skillful player but he is deadly from a dead ball and if you give him the space to whip something in from open play then there's going to be chaos in the box. Even if he stands perfectly still the rest of the time he's a good addition to the team

We're in a weird position with Forrester where he's obviously loved, has a big reputation and has been given a big new contract, but he looks alarmingly past it all of a sudden this season. Hopefully it's just some kind of extremely sudden loss of form but I personally wouldn't have him starting currently. He just doesn't give Lennon enough help when they're playing as a pair.

Kavanagh should be starting for the reasons you say. I believe he still has the most assists in the league by a margin and that's with not being a regular starter. He's quite flimsy in open play but you can apply that to Leavy, Mulraney, Nolan, McClelland and so forth so that'll be an issue regardless.

Kenny seems set on gutting the squad anyway from what he's said. Will be interesting to see how it comes to pass given all the 2 and 3 year deals in the squad, but he's mentioned changing a few things in the summer and already speaking to players ahead of joining in the off-season. Giving himself a big job in the long term it seems, although at the moment I'd just be happy with a win on Friday!

[Jack B]

It's a funny season for fans of a lot of sides in the league that can't enjoy the failings of other teams as you normally would, because their own is having such a shocker. Feels like it's not going to become "normal" at any point either.

[joey B]

Horrendous from Longford yesterday not to win from the position they were in,2 up in the 83rd minute to 2-2 before the 90th,both goals coming from long throws aswell ……

[Nesta99]

We're in a weird position with Forrester where he's obviously loved, has a big reputation and has been given a big new contract, but he looks alarmingly past it all of a sudden this season. Hopefully it's just some kind of extremely sudden loss of form but I personally wouldn't have him starting currently. He just doesn't give Lennon enough help when they're playing as a pair.

Kavanagh should be starting for the reasons you say. I believe he still has the most assists in the league by a margin and that's with not being a regular starter. He's quite flimsy in open play but you can apply that to Leavy, Mulraney, Nolan, McClelland and so forth so that'll be an issue regardless.

Kenny seems set on gutting the squad anyway from what he's said. Will be interesting to see how it comes to pass given all the 2 and 3 year deals in the squad, but he's mentioned changing a few things in the summer and already speaking to players ahead of joining in the off-season. Giving himself a big job in the long term it seems, although at the moment I'd just be happy with a win on Friday!

Watch out Derry, Duffy, Hoban, McEleney et all off to St Pats in November Dundalk FC MkIII. Gannon know where to be to win a league medal too.

[joey B]

Suspected broken arm suffered by Patrick McEleney yesterday evening….

[oriel]

I am enjoying this panic around St. Pats, but doubt it will last too long.

.

Pats will be ok and SK will end the season and prob try and do a clear out / offload. It is funny though reading all of panic stations from some Pats fans, blaming Daly for the squad, they have enough quality and a decent manager and first class training facilities at Abbotstown, they need to stop moaning.

Still on a high after last night, but we need to back it up v Shels, could easily slip down again, but I think we are building momentum. Should gave won that 4-2 last night, but its still the same 3 points..

[Jack B]

Pats will be ok and SK will end the season and prob try and do a clear out / offload. It is funny though reading all of panic stations from some Pats fans, blaming Daly for the squad, they have enough quality and a decent manager and first class training facilities at Abbotstown, they need to stop moaning.


I don't really get your point here. I've seen us in much worse states and in the grand scheme of things we're in a healthy position, it's not "moaning" we're just using a forum for its purpose and discussing the current issues on the pitch, of which there evidently is. If Daly wasn't mostly responsible for the current squad then who is? Why would he not be critiqued for it? I like the man a lot and think he's a good coach but this is part of the job. If there's so much quality, great facilities etc then why would a clear out/offload even be needed? I'm sure we won't be relegated myself, so no panic on that front, but it's hard to deny that the season wouldn't be an abject failure if that becomes the takeaway from it.

[Another Bohemia]

I don't really get your point here. I've seen us in much worse states and in the grand scheme of things we're in a healthy position, it's not "moaning" we're just using a forum for its purpose and discussing the current issues on the pitch, of which there evidently is. If Daly wasn't mostly responsible for the current squad then who is? Why would he not be critiqued for it? I like the man a lot and think he's a good coach but this is part of the job. If there's so much quality, great facilities etc then why would a clear out/offload even be needed? I'm sure we won't be relegated myself, so no panic on that front, but it's hard to deny that the season wouldn't be an abject failure if that becomes the takeaway from it.

I suppose it boils down to expectations now that Kenny is your manager. What were your expectations when he joined and what are they now? Given the fairly turbulent nature of results each week moving quickly up or down the table is a possibility.

[oriel]

I don't really get your point here. I've seen us in much worse states and in the grand scheme of things we're in a healthy position, it's not "moaning" we're just using a forum for its purpose and discussing the current issues on the pitch, of which there evidently is. If Daly wasn't mostly responsible for the current squad then who is? Why would he not be critiqued for it? I like the man a lot and think he's a good coach but this is part of the job. If there's so much quality, great facilities etc then why would a clear out/offload even be needed? I'm sure we won't be relegated myself, so no panic on that front, but it's hard to deny that the season wouldn't be an abject failure if that becomes the takeaway from it.

As SK will always want his own men in, he'll have an idea already who his targets are. Even with the current squad, Pats should be doing better, SK should prob be doing better, but early days.

[Jack B]

I suppose it boils down to expectations now that Kenny is your manager. What were your expectations when he joined and what are they now? Given the fairly turbulent nature of results each week moving quickly up or down the table is a possibility.

Mine haven't really changed, as disappointing a start as it's been. There was probably the feeling of an outside chance of pushing towards finishing 4th, but so much of the season has already passed that it feels unlikely we'll suddenly become consistently better than all of Waterford, Galway, Bohs and Sligo for the remainder of the year to be able to accomplish that. As you say the season has been a mess and there's lots of room for fluctuation, but because of exactly that it seems unlikely that a side that has been this poor will suddenly be one of the best performing over the last 15ish games.

I'd imagine he'll get backed to change as much as he can in the July window and maybe similar to Bohs a lot may depend on what happens there. Ideal world we'll maybe make 3/4 changes to the team, push for 4th, do well in the cup/lucky in Europe but some kind of middling finish seems to most likely outcome from where we're at now. The vibe seems that the pressure to deliver will be from next season on.

[sbgawa]

Suspected broken arm suffered by Patrick McEleney yesterday evening….

I know i should be glad Derry wont have him for a couple of months but i cant help feeling sorry for him he has an awful time with normal type injuries (hamstrings/groins etc ) to get a broken arm for him is just nightmare stuff, only thing is when he comes back he should be fit to go a bit like Farrugia was from his shoulder injury rather than having to take it slowly

[TonyD]

Watch out Derry, Duffy, Hoban, McEleney et all off to St Pats in November Dundalk FC MkIII. Gannon know where to be to win a league medal too.

Just on Sean Gannon. If Shels were to win the title this year, how many league winners medals would that give him ? A lot of people probably forget that he got a medal with Pats in 2013, as well as his medals with Rovers and Dundalk. Some record.

[Martinho II]

Just on Sean Gannon. If Shels were to win the title this year, how many league winners medals would that give him ? A lot of people probably forget that he got a medal with Pats in 2013, as well as his medals with Rovers and Dundalk. Some record.

Think it would be 10 TonyD.

[sbgawa]

2011 with Rovers 2013 with Pats 2014 15 16 18 and 19 with Dundalk 21 22 23 with rovers so if shels win it would be 10 wins in 14 years....incredible. although he has said himself he doesn't really count the 2011 rovers one as he barely played at all

[Buckett]

11/14

[TonyD]

2011 with Rovers 2013 with Pats 2014 15 16 18 and 19 with Dundalk 21 22 23 with rovers so if shels win it would be 10 wins in 14 years....incredible. although he has said himself he doesn't really count the 2011 rovers one as he barely played at all

And I’d forgotten about 2011 with Rovers. Unbelievable record. Has anyone else come close to that ?

[Nesta99]

2017 is a bit jarring when you see it listed like the above, 6 in a row if it wasnt for a Dundalk reject proving a point. Id love to actually see Gannon's senior medal haul, there are more celebrated players that have come nowhere near his total. Some luck at being at the right club at the right time, some good judgement undoubtedly too.

[2 Year Contract]

2017 is a bit jarring when you see it listed like the above, 6 in a row if it wasnt for a Dundalk reject proving a point. Id love to actually see Gannon's senior medal haul, there are more celebrated players that have come nowhere near his total. Some luck at being at the right club at the right time, some good judgement undoubtedly too.

It’s absolutely mad to look at written down. In his career he’s been part of squads that have won the following:

10x LOI Premier Division
2x FAI Cup
3x League Cup
4x Presidents Cup
2x Leinster Senior Cup
1x Champions Cup

Qualification wise he’s also the only player to have featured in European group stages 4 times
3x Europa League groups
1x Conference League groups

On a personal level he’s also been voted by his fellow players into the PFAI team of the year 6 times between 2014-2019

[Jack B]

Worth mentioning Gannon has also been quietly excellent so far this season, at least from what I've seen. Hasn't lost a step as much as his time at Rovers might have suggested. Evidently just more suited to playing as a conventional right back than as part of a 3/5.

[Nesta99]

Dundalk nearly ruined him when Filipo played him as a wing back and he sturggled badley. In a back 4 he cover more ground and is as effective as a wing back.

I was very glad to see Daly setting Dundalk up 442, It suits the players we have better.

[sbgawa]

He never really worked as a wingback at Rovers and struggled to make the starting 3 centrebacks as he never looked as comfortable on the ball but he was a decent squad player for us that deserved his medals playing out of position in a system that didnt suit him. Glad things are going well for him at Shels but hope a runners up medal will be all he gets this year :)

[Martinho II]

And I’d forgotten about 2011 with Rovers. Unbelievable record. Has anyone else come close to that ?

I have forgotten the players name but Im pretty sure in last 20 years some other loi player came close to that total. Name escapes me probably someone else from Shamrock Rovers in the 80s perhaps that was with Dundalk?

[Buckett]

The 80's was forty years ago! Possibly Ronan Finn?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Think Heary and Finn are next closest

[2 Year Contract]

Think Heary and Finn are next closest

Yeah I think I recall years ago hearing that Heary was the most successful LOI player when he retired. Both he and Finn now have 7 premier division medals each

[A N Mouse]

Yeah I think I recall years ago hearing that Heary was the most successful LOI player when he retired. Both he and Finn now have 7 premier division medals each

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/erfolgreichstespieler/wettbewerb/IR1

[pineapple stu]

If he were to win this year - which is a long way off yet - then he must have close to a world record?

11 league titles with four clubs is impressive enough but not unique (Ibrahimovic has 12 titles with five clubs for example), but to do it all in the same league is impressive given how money is increasingly making leagues less competitive

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Giggs won 13 in England. I’m sure there’s other clubs who are always winning their league that have players there for a lot of them. Muller seems like he’s been at Bayern forever.

[Burnsie]

Yes, Roar Strand won 16 titles with Rosenberg, which I believe is the world record.

But I'd be amazed if anyone else had reached double figures across four clubs in the same country, which was Stu's point

[sbgawa]

If Gannon leaves Shels to move to another club next year on the back of Shels winning the league i know where i will be walloping a ton of money on :)

[Nesta99]

If Gannon leaves Shels to move to another club next year on the back of Shels winning the league i know where i will be walloping a ton of money on :)

UCD??