How long has Mick McCarthy got ?

[OwlsFan]

ffs, even McCarthy himself has never tried to blame Tracey for the training facilities. Presumably you won't give McCarthy credit then for the facilities in Japan either then?

That is the nature of the man, ffs. Mick is/was never one to apportion blame unlike others.

My lasting memories of Mick McCarthy: Captaining Ireland in Rome in 1990 and he staring fixedly at the flag and swallowing hard with emotion as the camera panned along the players, and secondly crying after our failure in the play-offs in Brussels.

Not the greatest manager but a great Irishman and person.

[Superhoops]

Not the greatest manager but a great Irishman and person.
Well said, Owls Fan.

[sligoman]

Not the greatest manager but a great Englishman and person.I've corrected the above for you;). Football is only a game, it can't change your nationality regardless of who you play/played for.

[Plastic Paddy]

I've corrected the above for you;). Football is only a game, it can't change your nationality regardless of who you play/played for.

Just the kind of utter garbage I'd expect from an immature kid. So do tell us which country it was for whom McCarthy won 57 caps... :rolleyes:

Grow up, Sligoboy.

:ball: PP

[sligoman]

Just the kind of utter garbage I'd expect from an immature kid. So do tell us which country it was for whom McCarthy won 57 caps... :rolleyes:

Grow up, Sligoboy.

:ball: PPI'm not doubting that he won those caps for Ireland but what I'm saying is, at the end of it all, he's still English, just like Matt Holland, Clinton Morrison and plenty more. I'm not holding it against him, I'm just pointing it out and in case yer having trouble reading it, it's sligoman;).

[JoeSemi]

Mick McCarthy is as proud an Irishman as any that have worn the green shirt. He's the son of a Waterford man who, because of circumstances(like so many at the time), left Ireland to seek work in England. Sons and daughters of Irish emigrants in England tend to wear their heritage on their sleeve more than their parents and most right-minded people on here will vouch for this, as most will know someone personally. They, like Mick, would have grown up supporting Ireland and would hope to, one day, play for their country. Mick has been a great servant to Irish football and its a shame that a fed kids wouldn't educate themselves on Ireland's former glories; which Mick played a huge part in.

[Redtop]

there are plenty of plastic paddys(pun not intended)who jst play for ireland jst because they wouldn't have a chance to get in the england side but i believe that mc carthy is proud to be of irish relation and gave everything when he pulled on the shirt

[Redtop]

the two of us at the same time:D :D

[sligoman]

Mick McCarthy is as proud an Irishman as any that have worn the green shirt. He's the son of a Waterford man who, because of circumstances(like so many at the time), left Ireland to seek work in England. Sons and daughters of Irish emigrants in England tend to wear their heritage on their sleeve more than their parents and most right-minded people on here will vouch for this, as most will know someone personally. They, like Mick, would have grown up supporting Ireland and would hope to, one day, play for their country. Mick has been a great servant to Irish football and its a shame that a fed kids wouldn't educate themselves on Ireland's former glories; which Mick played a huge part in.
there are plenty of plastic paddys(pun not intended)who jst play for ireland jst because they wouldn't have a chance to get in the england side but i believe that mc carthy is proud to be of irish relation and gave everything when he pulled on the shirtThis thread went off-topic long ago so I don't mind continuing on about this.

Ye are both missing my point, I never said Mick never gave his all when playing for Ireland, all I'm saying is Mick was English, and still is, regardless of who he won caps for. Football is only a game at the end of the day and games don't change your nationality!

[pineapple stu]

all I'm saying is Mick was English, and still is, regardless of who he won caps for.
Did you ever listen to a song called "The Emigrant's Letter" by Percy French? Shoots arguments like this in the head, let alone the foot.


[Though it's still OK to disown irritating fifth-generation American-Irish people.:p ]

[JoeSemi]

Its a terrible shame that so many idiots have to go back to the age old argument of who's Irish and who isn't. Its all been said before and gets tiresome when some narrow-minded individuals can't make a valid case as to why some player isn't classed as Irish, when what it says on his passport is:

Nationality: Irish

As regards Mick's position at Sunderland, he definitely over-achieved last season and didn't have adequate funds to build on what he brought up. It was a double-edged sword in a sense, as if he hadn't gone up people would have thrown up the same tripe that he couldn't cut it. Now that he has come up, and is struggling with an awfully weak squad, people are still sharpening the knives. Wigan and West Ham strengthened with international players like Camara and Benayoun to name two, and it has certainly born fruit. Sunderland had to make do with has-beens and never-beens, like Alan Stubbs and Andy Gray. Mick deserves to see out the season and, hopefully, put up a good fight, regroup and bounce back even stronger the following season.

[sligoman]

Its a terrible shame that so many idiots have to go back to the age old argument of who's Irish and who isn't. Its all been said before and gets tiresome when some narrow-minded individuals can't make a valid case as to why some player isn't classed as Irish, when what it says on his passport isYes, I'm an idiot and narrow-minded for thinking that somebody from England is English:rolleyes:.

[Superhoops]

This thread went off-topic long ago so I don't mind continuing on about this.

Ye are both missing my point, I never said Mick never gave his all when playing for Ireland, all I'm saying is Mick was English, and still is, regardless of who he won caps for. Football is only a game at the end of the day and games don't change your nationality!
Sligoman, I am like hundreds and thousands of Irish who lived in the UK for several years through economic necessity and whose children were born in the UK. Not only do my children consider themselves to be Irish but the great nation of Ireland also considers them to be Irish and has issued them with passports to support their Irish nationality. The fact that they were not born in Ireland does not make them any less Irish than had they been born in my home town or anywhere in Ireland.

Your comments on this thread about this subject are offensive to any Irish person who through circumstances were born outside Ireland to Irish parents in an Irish home environment.

I hope your comments were made out of ignorance rather than out of small mindedness.

BTW, about 10 years ago I knew a fellow countyman of yours whose job brought him to Dublin for three months after which time he returned to Sligo. While living in Bray, his wife, who was also from Sligo, gave birth to their third child (the first two were born in Sligo). I don't suppose for one minute that young lad has ever considered himself to anything other than from Sligo. By your reckoning I suppose you would consider the boy to be a Wicklowman!

[sligoman]

Sligoman, I am like hundreds and thousands of Irish who lived in the UK for several years through economic necessity and whose children were born in the UK. Not only do my children consider themselves to be Irish but the great nation of Ireland also considers them to be Irish and has issued them with passports to support their Irish nationality. The fact that they were not born in Ireland does not make them any less Irish than had they been born in my home town or anywhere in Ireland.I don't buy into this craic of I'm Irish cos I have an Irish passport kind of thing. Your kids were born in England so therefore are English in my opinion, you don't have to agree with me on that but you're not going to change my opinion of it(I'm not trying to change yours either btw)


Your comments on this thread about this subject are offensive to any Irish person who through circumstances were born outside Ireland to Irish parents in an Irish home environment.

I hope your comments were made out of ignorance rather than out of small mindedness.I don't understand how anyone could be offended by what I'm saying here but if they are then that's their own problem


BTW, about 10 years ago I knew a fellow countyman of yours whose job brought him to Dublin for three months after which time he returned to Sligo. While living in Bray, his wife, who was also from Sligo, gave birth to their third child (the first two were born in Sligo). I don't suppose for one minute that young lad has ever considered himself to anything other than from Sligo. By your reckoning I suppose you would consider the boy to be a Wicklowman!The first two are from Sligo and the third is from Wicklow;).

Just joking, I'm not really debating what part of a country people are from, it's what country they are from that I'm talking about. Weather you are born in Sligo, Cork or Dublin, you are still Irish. Just like if you're born in London, Manchester or Dover, you are still English;)

[Superhoops]

Yes, I'm an idiot and narrow-minded
I am glad we agree on something. Add 'and an ignorant gob****e as well' and you have the finished article!

[sligoman]

I am glad we agree on something. Add 'and an ignorant gob****e as well' and you have the finished article!Yes, pity you didn't quote the rest of what I said though:rolleyes:. Truth hurts doesn't it?:p.

[M@ttitude]

Your kids were born in England so therefore are English
My sister gave birth to her son on holidays in Spain last year, I suppose that makes him spanish??? pleb!

[NeilMcD]

Nationality is a sensitive and complex issue so for somebody to come on here and post messages about in black and white terms in what is a very grey issue can lead to offending people. Paul Mc Grath David O Leary were all born in England but are as Irish as me or you. As M@ttitude says there are circumstances when somebody is born in a country that in the future and in the past they have no allegiance to and just cause they are born there it does not make them Spanish. There are many things that go into someone nationality. You are choosing one aspect which is place of birth, but parents nationality, culture and many others also contribute to where somebody is from. All you have to do is look at the 2 different ways that Germany and France regard nationality to see this. If you are Turkish in Germany, you could nearly be 3rd Generation German at this stage and not be regarded as German.

[NeilMcD]

In relation to Mick Mc Carthy, I said ages ago on this forum that Sunderland would go down with the lowest points total ever in the Premiership and I was laughed at by a few people. I stand by my original post and I think they have one of the poorest teams the top flight has seen in ages. They may have a go and play decent football but they cant do the 2 basic things in football which is score and keep the ball out. I thought during the close season that Mc Carthy went for quantity rather than quality and he is paying the price for it now. How many average strikers does he have.

[OwlsFan]

Sligoman, how would you classify the following nationality wise and why ?:

Paul McGrath
David O'Leary
Roy Keane's children born in England.
The children of Nigerian immigrants born in Ireland.

[Superhoops]

Nationality is a sensitive and complex issue so for somebody to come on here and post messages about in black and white terms in what is a very grey issue can lead to offending people. Paul Mc Grath David O Leary were all born in England but are as Irish as me or you. As M@ttitude says there are circumstances when somebody is born in a country that in the future and in the past they have no allegiance to and just cause they are born there it does not make them Spanish. There are many things that go into someone nationality. You are choosing one aspect which is place of birth, but parents nationality, culture and many others also contribute to where somebody is from. All you have to do is look at the 2 different ways that Germany and France regard nationality to see this. If you are Turkish in Germany, you could nearly be 3rd Generation German at this stage and not be regarded as German.
Illustrates perfectly the point I was trying to make to Sligoman. Ironically, my own two were born in Greenford, where Paul McGrath was born. I would like to see Sligoman convincing not only my kids but also the Paul McGraths and David O'Learys of this world that they are not Irish at all, but they are really English!:)

[pineapple stu]

Phil Lynott - Brit
Steve Heighway - true Irishman (born here on holidays; never set foot in the place until his debut)
Paul McGrath - British *******.
Kyran Bracken - Irishman through and through.
Roy Keane's children - Brits, the lot of them.
The grandparents of most people on this forum - Brits

Can't believe how ignorant some people can be...

[Plastic Paddy]

Time to cut him some slack, sure he's only a kid...

:ball: PP

[sligoman]

Time to cut him some slack, sure he's only a kid...

:ball: PPYes:rolleyes:, a kid that is the only one who has stated the truth. How can ye honestly say Mick McCarthy is Irish when (1.) He was born in England, (2.) Probably lived in England while managing Ireland(open to correction on this), (3.) Now works in England and will probably rarely return to Ireland cos he has no reason to and (4.) speaks with an English accent. Yes he worked for Ireland(as in the national team) but that doesn't make him Irish.

I've had enough of this now, I don't give a crap weather ye think he's Irish, I know he's not. I don't like repeating myself but saying as nobody seems to have took on board what I said, I'll say it again-FOOTBALL IS ONLY A SPORT, IT DOES NOT/CAN NOT CHANGE A PERSON'S NATIONALITY!:rolleyes:

[pineapple stu]

Dig dig dig dig...

[sligoman]

Dig dig dig dig...and again your avoiding my point;).

[pineapple stu]

I'm not avoiding it at all. You don't have one. You're simply digging a hole for yourself. Look at the list of people I posted - are they English or Irish? Did you listen to the song I recommended? Is Gary Breen Irish or English? Born in England, English accent, wore an Irish jersey to school the day after the Euro 88 win. Address my points before you accuse me of avoiding your idiotic one.

[Superhoops]

Time to cut him some slack, sure he's only a kid...

:ball: PP
Before cutting him any slack would love to hear his response to OwlsFan's question?

Sligoman, how would you classify the following nationality wise and why ?:

Paul McGrath
David O'Leary
Roy Keane's children born in England.
The children of Nigerian immigrants born in Ireland.

[sligoman]

Before cutting him any slack would love to hear his response to OwlsFan's question?Ok:

Paul McGrath-Where was he born then I'll answer it;)
David O'Leary-Same as McGrath
Roy Keane's children born in England-English, obviously:rolleyes:.
The children of Nigerian immigrants born in Ireland-Irish, obviously too:rolleyes:.

[Karlos]

I've had enough of this now, I don't give a crap weather ye think he's Irish, I know he's not.

Pity you didn't think of that 12 or 13 posts back when you childlishy nitpicked someone's post to highlight a point that had no relevance to the topic at hand.

If you think that half a day later you might actually not give a crap about what replies you'll get then save us all the bother of trawling through this off topic sh*te and don't comment in the first place. :rolleyes: :mad:

[sligoman]

Pity you didn't think of that 12 or 13 posts back when you childlishy nitpicked someone's post to highlight a point that had no relevance to the topic at hand.

If you think that half a day later you might actually not give a crap about what replies you'll get then save us all the bother of trawling through this off topic sh*te and don't comment in the first place. :rolleyes: :mad:eh, I think you'll find that this thread went off the topic a while back when PP attacked me and De Town for being kids:rolleyes:. People were talking about Keane/McCarthy in Saiipan before I mentioned about Mick's nationality so it's not my fault this thread has gone off-topic!

[M@ttitude]

My sister gave birth to her son on holidays in Spain last year, I suppose that makes him spanish???
Can you answer my question????

[Superhoops]

Ok:

Paul McGrath-Where was he born then I'll answer it;)
David O'Leary-Same as McGrath
Roy Keane's children born in England-English, obviously:rolleyes:.
The children of Nigerian immigrants born in Ireland-Irish, obviously too:rolleyes:.
Paul McGrath - born Greenford, Middlesex - 4 December 1959
returned to live in Dublin when 2 months old
David O'Leary - born Stoke Newington, London - 2 May 1958
returned to live in Dublin when less than six months old.

[Karlos]

eh, I think you'll find that this thread went off the topic a while back when PP attacked me and De Town for being kids:rolleyes:. People were talking about Keane/McCarthy in Saiipan before I mentioned about Mick's nationality so it's not my fault this thread has gone off-topic!

Saiipan while done to death on foot.ie at least gives an insight into a facet of Mick's managerial skills or lack there of. His nationality on the other hand and the subsequent tripe on Irishness, is completely irrelevant, argumentative and off topic :ball:

[sligoman]

Can you answer my question????I think you answered that one yerself so I didn't feel the need to;):D.

[sligoman]

Paul McGrath - born Greenford, Middlesex - 4 December 1959
returned to live in Dublin when 2 months old
David O'Leary - born Stoke Newington, London - 2 May 1958
returned to live in Dublin when less than six months old.Well both are English then, however, they do sound Irish so it's not as obvious as McCarthy;)

[M@ttitude]

I think you answered that one yerself so I didn't feel the need to;):D.
Thank you o wise one, a friend of mine was born on an airplane somewhere over the atlantic, I must break the news to him that he is a creature of the sea/sky?(help me out sligo).. Does the Atlantic ocean have a national team?

[Superhoops]

Paul McGrath - born Greenford, Middlesex - 4 December 1959
returned to live in Dublin when 2 months old
David O'Leary - born Stoke Newington, London - 2 May 1958
returned to live in Dublin when less than six months old.


Well both are English then, however, they do sound Irish so it's not as obvious as McCarthy;)
So there you have it lads, Paul McGrath and David O'Leary, two english tossers posing as Irishmen. The cnuts, they fu**ing hoodwinked us for all these years. It was those Irish accents that fooled us.:rolleyes:

Thanks Sligoman for putting us right on that.;)

[Plastic Paddy]

eh, I think you'll find that this thread went off the topic a while back when PP attacked me and De Town for being kids:rolleyes:. People were talking about Keane/McCarthy in Saiipan before I mentioned about Mick's nationality so it's not my fault this thread has gone off-topic!

Um, hardly. You came out with some puerile comment about how you were glad Mick McCarthy was having a hard time at Sunderland and I chastised you for it. Remember this?


Your profile states that you're 17 years of age. Your comment was one I'd expect from a callow yoot. You can have no complaints.

Nothing I have seen from you since changes this opinion one bit. Accept the fact that you've made a right tit of yourself when posting on this thread. Then do yourself a favour and grow up.

:ball: PP

[sligoman]

Thank you o wise one, a friend of mine was born on an airplane somewhere over the atlantic, I must break the news to him that he is a creature of the sea/sky?(help me out sligo).. Does the Atlantic ocean have a national team?Jaysus Mattitude, you know a lot of foreigners;):p.

[sligoman]

Um, hardly. You came out with some puerile comment about how you were glad Mick McCarthy was having a hard time at Sunderland and I chastised you for it. Remember this?That was my opinion, for you to call it a "purile comment" is just stupid just cos you don't agree with it:rolleyes:.

[gustavo]

So Sligoman if you ( and it isnt beyong the realms of possibilty) meet a nice girl one day and you are very much in love and nature takes its course and nine months later a little baby is born but lo and behold your job requires you to move to England for a period of time so your kids are born there then a year later you move back . what nationalty are your children then?

[sligoman]

So Sligoman if you ( and it isnt beyong the realms of possibilty) meet a nice girl one day and you are very much in love and nature takes its course and nine months later a little baby is born but lo and behold your job requires you to move to England for a period of time so your kids are born there then a year later you move back . what nationalty are your children then?Obviously English. I wouldn't want them to be, but there is feck all I could do about it if that happened.

Lads, ye can throw any amount of possible scenarios at me, but none of them will change my opinion on the matter. Theirs not much else to say on this subject.

[M@ttitude]

Jaysus Mattitude, you know a lot of foreigners;):p.
Yeah my nephew, he's like the black sheep of the family now because of you, he insists on paella for dinner, he wants a bull instead of a dog etc, etc.. All because he popped out near a holiday resort in the costa del sol. I hope he doesnt get deported back to spain!!!!:eek:

But seriously sligoman, your views make a mockery of our ancestors that had no choice but to leave their beautiful country.

[Plastic Paddy]

Lads, ye can throw any amount of possible scenarios at me, but none of them will change my opinion on the matter. Theirs not much else to say on this subject.

Oh yes there is. I'll leave it to Joe Horgan of the Irish Post, though, and the words of his Christmas column a fortnight back. I've had enough fun making you and your "opinion" look daft. :rolleyes:

Over to Joe:

"James Connolly, signatory to the 1916 Proclamation and one of the main political thinkers behind the uprising, probably didn’t visit Ireland until 14 or 15 years of age. When he did so it was as a member of the British army. He was executed by the same British army while strapped to a chair in the grounds of Kilmainham jail. Born in Edinburgh. Plastic Paddy.

Tom Clarke, first to sign the 1916 Proclamation. Active in the cause of Irish separatism for over 30 years prior to the Easter Rising, he served 15 years hard labour in England for his part in a bombing campaign. Born on the Isle of Wight. Plastic Paddy.

Éamon de Valera, the last commander to surrender in 1916. Hugely influential figure in the War of Independence, the civil war after the signing of the treaty and Irish life up to the 1970s. He was President of the Irish republic from 1959-73 and had such an impact that the country became known as “de Valera’s Ireland”. Born in New York. Plastic Paddy.

James Larkin, who was credited with founding the Irish labour movement. He led the workers in the 1913 lock-out and was a hero to the Dublin masses. He was a Labour TD up until the 1940s. Born in Liverpool. Plastic Paddy.

Peter Monahan, a member of Tom Barry’s flying column in West Cork, was part of the guerrilla forces that are credited with bringing Lloyd George to the negotiating table after inflicting heavy losses on British forces. An explosives expert who died at the famous Crossbarry ambush, he is buried in the republican plot in Bandon. Born in Scotland. Plastic Paddy.

Sean Phelan, Sean and Ernie Nunan, Johnny O’Connor, Desmond Ryan, Margaret Skinnider, Desmond Fitzgerald, Joe Good, Arthur Agnew, Paddy Moran, Peggy Downey, Liam Daley, Piaras Beaslai and Liam Mellows. All were active in the rising of 1916 and had cockney, scouse and Scottish accents. Every last one of them born in Britain. Plastic Paddies.

St. Patrick, credited with founding the church in Ireland. Patron saint of the country. Born in Britain. Plastic Paddy.

Liam McCarthy, after whom the all-Ireland hurling trophy is named. Born in England. Plastic Paddy.

Seán Óg Ó hAilpín, the Cork captain who this year lifted that very trophy and gave his entire acceptance speech in fluent Irish. Seen by many as the modern embodiment of the GAA’s sporting ideal. Born in Australia. Plastic Paddy.

Paul McGrath, probably the finest player of the era when an Irish soccer team finally went to a European championship and two World Cup finals. This sporting success is seen by many as helping to kick-start the birth of a new, confident Ireland. Born in London. Plastic Paddy.

David O’Leary, who scored that famous penalty against Romania, and Ray Houghton, who scored those goals against England and Italy. Born in Britain. Plastic Paddies.

The Edge and Adam Clayton of U2, the band said by many to be the best in the world. Acclaimed as being the first to put Irish rock music on the world scene as a credible enterprise. Entwined in the whole concept of modern Ireland and Irishness as something cool and hip. Born in England. Plastic Paddies.

Shane MacGowan, sometime lead singer with the Pogues. Generally acclaimed as one of the finest songwriters of our time. His songs encapsulate much of what it is to be Irish and he wrote the greatest Christmas song ever. Born in Tunbridge Wells. Plastic Paddy.

Ronan Bennett, critically lauded Irish novelist. Imprisoned in Long Kesh and in England on suspicion of republican activities. Born in Oxford. Plastic Paddy.

Pearse Hutchinson, poet writing primarily in the Irish language. Born in Glasgow. Plastic Paddy.

Cyril Cusack, actor and father of the famous Irish acting family. Born in Kenya. Plastic Paddy.

Jack Butler Yeats, brother of the poet and renowned in his own right as one of Ireland’s finest painters. Born in London. Plastic Paddy.

Thousands of the children and grandchildren brought up in Irish families in Britain , with Irish names and Irish ways. With accents and lives in Britain. With their Irish faces on British streets. Every last one of them born in Britain. Plastic Paddies. Plastic Paddies everywhere."

:ball: PP

[NeilMcD]

Sligoman I think the main problem is that you are confusing place of birth with nationality.


For you place of birth is the be all and end all to nationality but this is not the case legally or culturally. There are many ways to judge a persons nationality. You say its your opinion however its not something that is open to peoples opinions its a legal thing. People are Irish when the hold an Irish passport. It is also possible to have dual nationality also. You simply arguing saying this is my opinion is simplistic and facile.

As I said before place of birth is one of the contributary factors in a persons nationality but its not the only factor. This is not opinion but it is fact.

[Junior]

where is Lopez these days? he would have had a field day with this one:D

Nice post PP!!

[Junior]

where is Lopez these days? he would have had a field day with this one:D

Nice post PP!!

[Macy]

Ray Houghton, who scored those goals against England and Italy. Born in Britain. Plastic Paddies.
Whoever he scored against, he has no place on that list. The "still consider myself scottish" untc.

Some born to irish parent(s) feel and are and consider themselves Irish, other's don't take on any of that and consider themselves English (or whereever). McCarthy would be in the former, the likes of Morrison and Holland most definitely the latter.

I don't see why it's so hard to see the difference between people who just use their parents/grandparents when they need something (Something I really think both sides of the arguement need to take account off before the jump to the defence/ to attack people).

Some of the younger generation should remember that it wasn't always "cool" or acceptable to be irish in the UK, and not even that long ago.

[ThatGuy]

I don't care where any Irish player is born if they consider themselves Irish. The likes of Kilbane and McGeady consider themselves Irish, former internationals like Alan Kelly and Mick McCarthy consider themselves to be Irish. Fair play to them.

Clinton Morrison, Jason McAteer, Ray Houghton etc do not. If Ronaldinho, Zidane, Rooney, Henry and Eto'o were eledgible to play for Ireland and wanted to play for Ireland to further their careers rather than them believing themselves to be Irish, I wouldn't pick them.